John3;16

michael333 John 3:16 -- Please read my previous post(s). I answered the questions of "How do you know what constitutes the New Testament canon? How do you know for certain that these 27 books here in the New Testament are in fact inspired and should be in the New Testament? And how do you know for certain that maybe some inspired books haven’t been left out of the canon? I am in no way saying that I can not trust what the bible teaches as truth. Please read my previous 3 posts. ******************************************************************************** ******************************************* I quoted what you wrote, but let me disect your last post, taking the last part of the paragraph first, "And how do you know for certain that maybe some inspired books haven’t been left out of the canon?" what if there were some books left out of the canon? would this change the validity of the other twenty seven books? if there were other books left out, would the other twenty seven not be inspired by the Holy Spirit? would those books over rule Christ's deity?, would they contradict the way you recieve salvation? now for the first part of your paragraph: " Please read my previous post(s). I answered the questions of "How do you know what constitutes the New Testament canon? How do you know for certain that these 27 books here in the New Testament are in fact inspired and should be in the New Testament?" I answered this question, there is more evidence of the authentification of scripture than any other historical documents, the shear number of manuscripts and the vast geographical area from which these manuscripts were discovered, and the consistancy of them give weight to thier authenticity, these manuscripts were accepted by the early church long before the canonization of them, they were listed and quoted by disciples of John, and other Aposle's disciples, and exclusively mentioned as holy scripture before the canonization. ******************************************************************************** ****************************************** ******************************************************************************** ****************************************** But how can it be since the Christian faith existed and flourished for years before the first book of the New Testament was written? The books of the New Testament were composed decades after Christ ascended into heaven, and it took centuries for there to be general agreement among Christians as to which books comprised the New Testament. ******************************************************************************** ****************************************** ******************************************************************************** ****************************************** the fact that the books were writen decades after Christ ascended into heaven gives fact that they were written by eye witnesses, and the fact that they were written by the Apostles/disciples of Christ, Who He trained, also adds weight to thier validity, as far as taking centuries for them to be accepted, that does not line up with historical fact, the canonization of the twenty seven books of the New Testament did not bring them online with the Church, because the Church had been using them for the prevous centuries, it just agreed with the authenticity of the twenty seven books, and excluded other books that were being considered as to thier validity. I recomend that you read the book I referenced, and chek out the websites. ******************************************************************************** ******************************************************************************** ******************************************************************************** ***

michael333 But how can it be since the Christian faith existed and flourished for years before the first book of the New Testament was written? The books of the New Testament were composed decades after Christ ascended into heaven, and it took centuries for there to be general agreement among Christians as to which books comprised the New Testament. And that brings up another point. How do you know what constitutes the New Testament canon? How do you know for certain that these 27 books here in the New Testament are in fact inspired and should be in the New Testament? And how do you know for certain that maybe some inspired books haven’t been left out of the canon? ******************************************************************************** ********************** I find this troubling on so many levels, if you can not trust what the bible teaches as truth, then it has no more value than any other book written, it no longer can be viewed as the word of God, the way of salvation can no longer be found in its volumes, it then becomes at best a guide on how to live your life, but not the path to a relationship with God, and not the path to eternal life. You asked a question: How do you know what constitutes the New Testament canon? This I believe can best be answered by the fact that the Gospels and epistles were written by the Apostles and eye witnesses of Christ and his ministries, the 27 books were accepted by the early church, disciples of the Apostles throuhout the second century quoted from scripture in thier writings, and listed the books that comprise our New Testament, the books were completed before the end of the first century, again within the life time of the eye witnesses, extrainies writtings from Government officials, and others that spoke of Christ his disciples and scripture. and there remains over five thousand manuscripts from the second cetury, from many regions including Egypt, Europe, and the Middle East. This was not the Catholic Church and the nostics as the author of the DeVinci code would lead you to believe, first descriptency with this theory is the Catholic church was not in existance until constantine 306-337: Emperor Constantine the Great: although they lay claim to orgins back to the Apostles, throughout the Roman Empire there was a rollercoast effect between the Empire and Christanity, it was persucuted or ignored depending on which emporer was in office, it even expirenced some freedom, but the Roman Empire as vast as it was at its zineth, did not control even half of Europe, and only small portions of the middle east, and northern affrica, but Christanity flurished throughout Europe, the middle east and affrica. And our perspective of the Catholic Church being the only church functioning during the first fifteen hundred years of church history, is not accurate. but you would need to study church history to discover the truth. There are many books written on why the books of the New Testament were recieved as sacred scripture, one is: New Evidence That Demands A Verdict : by Josh McDowell The reason that many of the books of the Apocrypha were not included in the canon is that they did not meet the standards of scripture, they were not written by the Apostles, they were not written by eyewitnesses of Christ, there is no continuity in them, they are not referenced as scripture by the disciples of the Apostles as the accepted twenty seven books are, there are many examples and references to resources in the book: New Evidence That Demands A Verdict , search for the truth, don't just accept this latest onslaught against the foundation of Christanity and against Christ Himself. If you remove the deity of Christ then you remove his power to save you. Even if you believe that the Apostle's did not write the Gospels or the epistles until much latter in the first century, do you think they would write something different than what they preached????????????? do you believe that the accounts that they gave would depart from what Christ did? and since these books were written during the Apostolic age, the people who heard the Apostles preach also recieved thier writtings, if there were descrepencies they would have been noticed. The evidence that supports the books of the new testament is overwelming. read the whole article please: <http://www.probe.org/content/view/678/77/> this is another website that provides resources: The DaVinci Hoax http://petragrail.tripod.com/hoax.html

JMJ I don't believe that the Apostle Paul was referring to the Old Testament Scripture, the gospels were written before the epistles and the epistles were written over a period of time, in the book of Timothy the Apostle Paul refers to Timothy's mother who was a Christian and raised Timothy in the faith, but I agree that most heard the word by preaching and teaching, Jesus instructed his disciples to go preach the gospel to all the world and make disciples of men, this is a key to understanding what was preached, it was not the law or traditions of men, it was not even the old covenant (old testament) but rather fulfillment of the old testament was preached, and that fulfillment is the Gospel or good news. The new covenant replaced the old, and this was the message that was carried to all who would believe. Concerning tradition there are warnings against and also instructions to adhere to them, so I would conclude that you must be discerning as to which traditions you follow, the problem with many traditions is that they become doctrine. I choose #2 as long as you discern what is true, and that which aligns itself with the word of God. As the Epistle's reveal there was much heresy even in the early church. This is a link to a site that dates the writings of the new testament. http://www.probe.org/content/view/678/77/

If miraculous healings through individuals are relevent for today then why aren't there any visible signs of it? I have heard of people showing signs of miraculous healings, such as someone having films that show cancer one day and then when they are scanned again, and all traces are gone, but I do not know of any cases where these healings are linked to a specific individual. Another point to consider is why aren't the hospitals being emptied? I believe God heals people today, but I believe he uses prayer, the reason I believe that He no longer uses healing as a sign to authenticate individuals is that the authentication is now credited to the Lord through prayers being answered. Just passing through!

Parmaynu This is a copy of a post that I placed on a Muslim/Islamic board, I would like to hear your opion on this subject. I have a question in reguard to terrorists, I know they misinterpret the teaching of the Quran to justify numerous injustices and killings, including the killing of people of the Islamic faith who disagree with their version (interpretation) of the Quran. The justification that they (terrorists) use is that the U.S.A. was occupying Muslim territory, and specifically because the U.S. had established bases in Saudi Arabia, but the fact is that these bases were established to help defend Muslim territory against a Dictator who had ambitions to seize and control a country that could not defend itself due to the military Superiority of Iraq over the military capabilities of Kuwait. And if Sadom decided he would like to invade Saudi Arabia he also had military superiority over their military, and even if many Muslims rose up to retaliate such an evasion, there would have been many atrocities and much more loss of life. Just think of the chaos that would have ensued following such an invasion and the civil wars that would follow. So the presence of U.S. forces averted such calamities that could have arisen. And in light of this, the terrorists are fighting against a nation that is an ally to those sovereign nations such as Saudi Arabia and Kuwait, therefore, I believe that their cause is unfounded and not inline with the Quran as justification for such acts of retaliation. America (U.S.A.) has no goal of occupying any other nations, even when we went to war with other nations and conquered those nations, such as Germany and Japan during the second world war, we did not establish them as states of our government, or take control of their people, what we did was to returned control back to their people, and allowed them to self govern themselves, and if Hitler had not been an aggressor there would be little that could have been done to remove him, but because he chose to invade allies of the U.S. and of other nations of Europe war was declared, and this brutal dictator who

If you are considering committing suicide than you are not giving a reason for the hope that is within you, and you are not running the race that is set before you. It is a sign of lack of faith to throw in the towel, life is hard and being a Christian does not remove trials, but it does give us assurance of the One who will never leave us or forsake us, when we go through the valleys or are faced with what appears to be overwhelming circumstances, that is when we need to turn to the Lord for our help and salvation, that is when the Lord is nearest, but we need to ask him for deliverance, He may not change the circumstances but he will strengthen you so that you will be able to bear it. Scripture tells us that a righteous man falls seven time but rises eight, and that goes along with the question asked in scripture: what will separate us from the love of God? And the answer is there is nothing. But when you stand before the Lord what would you rather hear, well done thou good and faithful servant, or have the knowledge that you lost rewards that are eternal. That is why Jesus told us to lay up treasures in heaven, not on earth where rust and moth erodes them. Another thing that happens when someone commits suicide is that they are not allowing the Lord to form them in the image of His Son which is done through suffering and enduring difficult situations. The Apostle Paul stated to die is gain but to live is Christ, He longed to be with Christ but he also wanted to please the Lord, and that is why he ran the race and finished the course that was set before Him. It is also written in scripture that the sufferings that we endure here is not worthy of the rewards that we will receive. Also suicide is a selfish act and causes pain and grief to those that are closest to you. There is help available for those who are in deep depression, which in some people is caused by a chemical imbalance, or low serotonin level. Counsel is also based on scriptural principles. There are many examples of those who went before us and were martyred or endured persecution and even in these times there are many who are suffering for the cause of Christ. Not that you need to be torn by lions or burned at the stake to know persecution, there are more subtle forms of it, the bible also assures us that we will have tribulations in this world, but we also can have peace because the Lord is with us. We have three enemies in this world the devil, our flesh, and the world, but we must keep in mind that the war is not fought with flesh, but with principalities of darkness, it is a spiritual war and that is why we must fight it with the weapons that the Spirit provides us with, such as prayer and faith, and put on the whole armor of God.

There are hundreds of references to the Spirit, I listed a few. Judges|11:29 Then the spirit of the LORD came upon Jephthah, and he passed over Gilead, and Manasseh, and passed over Mizpeh of Gilead, and from Mizpeh of Gilead he passed over

Pilgrim Can you give your opinion on what the thousand year reign that is spoken of in the book of Revelation? Revelation|20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This

Pilgrim The second coming is when Christ returns, his first coming was as a servant and to die on the cross, but when Christ returns he will set up his kingdom in Jerusalem which he will reign for a thousand years: Revelation|20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and

Pilgrim If you read the verses that precede and follow the verses you listed in the book of Galatians, you will realize that this portion of scripture does not support keeping the law before nor after salvation, this whole chapter is about Jews who were trying to subvert the gospel and freedom from the Law. The Apostle Paul got in the Apostle Peter

We are in agreement on how someone is saved, but it would seem that we differ in our interpretation of what sanctification is in the believers life. I do agree that the Holy Spirit is given to believers and that he begins to work in our lives to conform us to the image of Christ, but we also have our old nature that wars against the Spirit and until we receive our resurrected bodies we will continue in this battle, the believer has three enemies: the world, the flesh, and the devil, and although we have One living in us who is greater than he that is in the world and even though we have over come the world by our faith, we still have a sin nature. The verses that you listed in 1John make a compelling argument but taking the whole letter into consideration there are what appear to be contradictions to living a perfect sinless life, although I do agree that we are called to do so, I will list the portion of 1John so that it will be clear of what I am referring to: 1 John|1:5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. 1 John|1:6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: 1 John|1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. 1 John|1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 1 John|1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us

That is correct you receive the spirit through faith, just as Abraham received the blessing through faith, you again chose verses that support justification by faith and not by the law, in fact the Apostle sharply chastises them because of their reverting back to following the law, he calls them foolish and asks them: who has bewitched you, he asks them have you received the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith, in verse 3:3 he asks them are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now made perfect by the flesh, and verse 3:5 the comparison is made between faith and the law, he asks which is it? And to answer the question he again uses Abraham as an example in verse 3:6, Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. The Apostle then shows us in verse 3:7 that all that are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham, who is the Father of faith, and that is how he blessed many nations. In verse 3:11 it states that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, and that it is evident that the just shall live by faith. And so there is no confusion in verse 3:12 he states that the law is not faith, but the man that chooses to live under them, he will be judged by them. The good news comes in verse 3:13 Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, by receiving are punishment, in verse 3:14 the gentiles receive the blessings of Abraham, the promise of the Spirit through faith. In verse 3:15 I believe He is saying "I speak as a man, and the words that I speak though I am only a man, my words are confirmed (inspired) and that no man can make my (Apostle Paul) words void, or can they add to them. Galatians|3:1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? Galatians|3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? Galatians|3:3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh? Galatians|3:4 Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if

Pilgrim7 What this chapter is addressing is the provision for sin, which is a component of the law, the law is what convicts or condemns us, if you do not know Christ as Savior than you are judged by the law and you will be found guilty, if you have received Christ as Savior than the Law serves to convict you of your sin, and to cause you to seek the Lord for forgiveness. But it is the blood of Jesus that was shed for the remission of sin, that is the purpose of the sacrifice, the sacrifice that was performed under the old covenant was a shadow of Christ and his death, those sacrifices did not take away sin, if they did then those that died under the old covenant would have entered into heaven, but instead they were kept in a place called paradise until Christ went and preached to them and set them free. But as can be seen Jesus became our High Priest after his resurrection, and he entered in once with his own blood into the holy place in heaven, before the mercy seat of God the Father, and by this one offering he obtained eternal redemption for us, this is all about mercy, not keeping commandments, just as the first covenant provided mercy through the shedding of blood, so the second covenant provides mercy through blood, but the second or new covenant has preeminence over the first. The fact that it is called a new covenant reveals that it is a new deal, the old covenant was fulfilled by Christ, that means that all conditions of the old covenant have been satisfied, but under the new covenant God has chosen faith to access grace, or this gift. As far as the testament being in force after the testator is dead, this speaks of what we would refer to as a last will and testament, it is what you would instruct to be performed after your death of all your holdings, and since the Father placed all things under the Son, (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit always agree) His will for us is established. Hebrews|9:6 Now when these things were thus ordained, the priests went always into the first tabernacle, accomplishing the service

Pilgrim You side stepped the issue of Abraham receiving the Promise through faith and apart from the Law, since the Law was not received by Moses until four hundred and thirty years later. And the Apostle Paul made it clear that we (the church) are to receive it in the same manner, by faith. Also I never said that we should not try to keep the law, I said that we cannot be justified by the law, the law is good but we are carnal, and there will be no flesh that will be justified by the law, so if the law is in effect and we sin how can we be justified? The answer is that someone had to pay for that sin, and that one is Jesus. The Apostle Paul also spoke of the old man and the inner man, the old man is our flesh and the desires of it, the new man is the Spirit that draws us to the Lord and directs us to walk in his statutes, but since we have an old nature and a new nature there is a constant battle between the Spirit and the flesh and that is why we can

Pilgrim7 This is prophesy of when the Lord returns during the millennium when Christ will reign with a rod of iron, this has nothing to do with the church or the era that we are in. The Ten Commandments are there to reveal are sins and so that we can come to the throne of God to ask for forgiveness. In Romans chapter four, the Apostle Paul through the inspiration of the Holy Spirit uses an example of Abraham as being the Father of faith, this was before the law existed, and in the example Abraham receives the promise through faith, and he is declared just because of his faith, and also in chapter four it uses this comparison to those who receive justification through faith, which is the era that we are in, which is also referred to as the church age, the book of Acts gives detailed information of the beginning of the church and some of its formative years, and along with the Epistles we can come to a good understanding of justification through faith and not through the Law, as we can see Abraham did not have ceremonial law, ritual law or the ten commandments, so to try and make the argument that we are to be placed under the ten commandments has no scriptural support, we receive it by faith just as Abraham received it by faith. He lived four hundred plus years before the Law was given to Moses and we are after the law was fulfilled, but both are justified without the law. The Gospels cover the era before the church began, and most of it is before the cross so you need to be careful when applying some of its teachings. Romans|4:10 How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision. Romans|4:11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which

Reading the bible, but also focusing on verses that lift you up, such as: we are more than conquerors through Christ who strengthens us, and he will not let us be tempted beyond what we can bear, although his will is to conform each one of his children into the image of his Son, so sometimes there is suffering, it is when we are in the valleys that we seek him the most. The Lord loves a broken and contrite heart and that is how we need to approach him, but he is rich in mercy to those that fear and love him. But if you want to be close to God it may take a broken heart as the saying goes "God only can use a vessel that has been broken". But the bible also tells us that perfect love casts out fear. The struggle is within us, our flesh warring against our Spirit, are flesh desiring the pleasures of this world, and what is of little value in perspective of eternal life. The Lord told us not to love this world nor the things in it. 1 John|2:15 Love not the world, neither the things

here are the verses that you wanted, in James 2:10 it says that: For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one

Jesus performed the miracle of multiplying the loafs of bread and the people sought to take hold of him and make him King, Jesus then departed from them and crossed over the sea, then the people who seen the miracles that Jesus performed sought him and crossed over the sea, they then found Jesus the next day, and questioned him about his arrival to the other side, which in reality they were questioning why He left them, then in verse 6:26 Jesus answered them and said " Truly, truly I say to you, you did not seek me because of the miracles that you witnessed, but because I provided food for you, then in verse 6:27 Jesus reveals the moral of the story, Labor not for physical bread, but seek everlasting provisions, Jesus often used parables and stories to teach the people, and the people responded to his teaching in verse 6:28 and asked Him: what shall we do that we might do that, which is required of God? And Jesus answered them (verse 6:29) this is what is required: that you believe on Him (Jesus) who God has sent. This is the bread of life, this is how you are doing the work of God, believe on him who God has sent. John|6:22 The day following, when the people which stood on the other side of the sea saw that there was none other boat there, save that one whereinto his disciples were entered, and that Jesus went not with his disciples into the boat, but

Why would the koran change? Do they not believe that their God knows the end from the beginning of time? And isn

You say that the sacrafice on Calvery is re-presented during the mass, since it is representative of what occurred on Calvery, and because that sacrifice required blood and was the only acceptable sacrafice, than what occurs during the mass can only represent the sacrifice on Calvery and that would make it a memorial, as Jesus instructed his disciples and also those who would follow, to do this in rememberance of me. The braking of the bread signifies the price that he paid, the picture of the breaking of the bread is symbolic of his body being broken and the wine is symbolic of his blood which he shed to cleanses us from all our sins, and this fulfills the old covenant and completes it, allowing for a new covenant to be installed in its place, and in this new covenant Jesus is the high Priest, and it is Jesus who makes intercession for us, He presents the offering for sin. But this is not dictated by some ritual or ceremony performed by a Priest, but only by our High Priest. Because He ever makes intercession for us, sitting on the right hand of God. And this is accomplished for those who are called to be his heirs, although God sheds his mercy upon all mankind, but those who accept his gift and receive him as Savior are sealed and receive the Holy Spirit. When you become a believer you become a new creature, you are regenerated, does this mean that you become perfect in the flesh? The answer is no, because we are told to ask for forgiveness, as can be found in 1John 1:9, he washes all of our sins away, and although we are instructed to ask for forgiveness when we sin, this is to preserve our fellowship, and to avoid chastisment of which there are many forms, but there are consequences to sin, if you were a heavy drinker before you were saved you can develop liver problems, or if you smoke you could develop lung cancer, just because you are forgiven eternally does not mean you won

I can only rely on what the bible teaches about salvation, faith, and works, what I understand from studying the bible about salvation is that it is a free gift that is offered to all, but to receive the gift you must receive it by faith, but I am not going to revisit the same subject at this time because I want to go into some of the issues of the catechism that I believe are erroneously taught by the Catholic Church. The first matter deals with the Eucharist that is celebrated during the mass, and the significance that is placed on it, we have been discussing salvation, faith, and works and the relationship between them, but from my understanding what the R.C.C. teaches about the Eucharist is that it is an un-bloody sacrifice, and that it is considered a means of atonement. Below is an excerpt of the catechism Article 3 section 2, my question is: why are they performing a sacrifice of Christ when he said from the cross that it is finished?(John 19:30) The memorial of the Lord's Passion and Resurrection. The Holy Sacrifice, because it makes present the one sacrifice of Christ the Savior and includes the Church's offering. The terms holy sacrifice of the Mass, "sacrifice of praise," spiritual sacrifice, pure and holy sacrifice are also used,150 since it completes and surpasses all the sacrifices of the Old Covenant. John|19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost. Hebrews|1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hebrews|1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by

Love is an action, it is not a feeling, feelings change from day to day, hour to hour, ect, just as joy is not happyness, the love that you are struggling over is what you are feeling, or how you believe you should feel, Jesus said if you love me you will keep my commandments, and I emphasize "if you love me" not if you want to go to heaven you will keep my commandments, but back to the topic, there was a woman who wept at the feet of Jesus and washed his feet with her tears and dried his feet with her hair, and when those who were setting around him questioned why was this woman doing this, Jesus replied, to who much is forgiven, they love much, to who little is forgiven, they love little, could it be that your life represents owing little? As an earlier post stated, be honest with God, tell Him you love Him every morning when you wake up and several times through the day, also I believe if you count your blessings this can bring you closer to God, I know it helps me, and always begin your prayers with worship first. I know personally I have had to ask God repeaditly to place in my heart a love for him. But I know my debt. The bible tells us to meditate on the Lord, this can help to calm you, and it also tells us to ask for wisdom, be honest with him, tell him you want to have a close fellowship with him. I believe he will answer your pray. Seek him with all of your heart.

The works that James speaks of are works of faith, there are many people in the world who reject Christ and his plan of salvation and these people can also do charitable works, but good works without faith is of no value in relationship with salvation, because as is stated in Titus 3:5 we are not saved by works of righteousness which we have done. There is another difference between the Catholic and Baptist (born again) and that is the issue of assurance of salvation, the Catholic believes that salvation can be lost from one day to the next depending on what sin you commit, this places salvation on the individual and his actions, and not on Christ and his redemptive work on the cross, and his intercessory work on the right hand of God. The following verses from James reveal works of faith which God accepts as a sign of faith, as I stated in an earlier post that Abraham believed God and this is the work that James is using as an example, if you think about it God promised Abraham that it would be through Isaac that his seed would be as the stars in the sky and as numerous as the sand on the shore, so although Abraham may not have understood exactly how God would perform this he trusted God and followed Gods instructions. And it is not a question of what Abraham did but what he did because of his faith, even though God intervened and prevented him from sacraficing his son, the work revealed his faith. James|2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. James|2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: show me thy faith without thy works, and I will show thee my faith by my works. James|2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. James|2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? James|2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? James|2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? James|2:23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. James|2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. Jesus is the foundation of the church, the twelve Apostles are also referred to as foundations because they were the ones who brought forth the gospel, but the church is built upon one Rock and that Rock is Christ, also in 1Cor 3:12-16, an example is given of good works being gold, silver, and precious stones, and when this are tried they remain and another example is given of evil works and these are represented by wood, hay, and stubble, and when these are tested in that day, by fire, they will be burned up. Now this leads to a conclusion in verses 3:14 and 3:15 if any man has good works he shall receive a reward, and at the same time his evil works will be burned and even though he will suffer some type of loss (reward) he will still be saved. This is an example of grace, receiving something we are not worthy of receiving, and a direct correlation to the believers appearing before the judgment seat. 1 Corinthians|3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 1 Corinthians|3:12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; 1 Corinthians|3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 1 Corinthians|3:14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 1 Corinthians|3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. 1 Corinthians|3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and

Pax I read back over my post, and realized that you were right, I did not actually give any details of whether or not my wife left the Catholic Church, or any time frame, so I will answer that now, this all occurred back in the early to mid 80