Christian

Amen brother !!! They will just find out too late sadly, after most of the damage is done. in Christ, C

To all who replied, thank you for your responses I am in agreement with you on the jist of what we are all saying here, but there doesn't seem to be any "definite, specific verses" which state what we are stating? Instead, our extraneous information and knowledge of the situation seems to be dictating what we profess here...no? in Christ, -C-

In a conversation with a Christian friend recently regarding the "confusing of languages" talked about in the Babel story, I was asked a fair enough question in regard to the matter that actually didn't have a "scriptural", verse specific response to. Of course speculation about the Lord's intention is very easy here...Genesis 11:1-9 And the whole earth was of one language and of one speech. (2) And it came to pass, as they journeyed east, that they found a plain in the land of Shinar; and they dwelt there. (3) And they said one to another, Come, let us make brick, and burn them thoroughly. And they had brick for stone, and slime had they for mortar. (4) And they said, Come, let us build us a city, and a tower, whose top may reach unto heaven, and let us make us a name; lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth. (5) And Jehovah came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of men builded. (6) And Jehovah said, Behold, they are one people, and they have all one language; and this is what they begin to do: and now nothing will be withholden from them, which they purpose to do. (7) Come, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech. (8) So Jehovah scattered them abroad from thence upon the face of all the earth: and they left off building the city. (9) Therefore was the name of it called Babel; because Jehovah did there confound the language of all the earth: and from thence did Jehovah scatter them abroad upon the face of all the earth. ...the "intention" of the people doesn't seem to state any other ambition than to have their tower reach unto heaven. They make no claim to want to be God, or like gods, only that they want to make a name for themselves. Unlike Satan's desire spoken of in... Isaiah 14:13-14 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: (14) I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. ...there is no similar claim made by those building the tower. My friends question was that if God's desire was a united people to worship Him, why take this construction as threatening enough to divide them and cast them asunder? As many times as I have read these passages in my life, I just always assumed that a "Satan like" ambition was at the root of God's decision. Seeing that that is not what's stated made me curious also. So am I missing something here? Blessings, His faithful servant, Christian

For the record, that is not what I was saying at all. I'm sorry about the confusion. in Christ, His faithful servant, Christian

Massorite, my dear brother in Christ, I thank God for you often, and for your straight-forward questions based on actual biblical verses... not philosophical/explanatory gymnastics. If we are to be truthful, and rely on actual verserepresentation regarding "whether we will know each other" or not, I don't think it we would find it. Only bias, "interpretive" translation of various verses would make one insist that any particular verse "say's" that. So I will agree with you on the statement that that exact phrase is not to be found. On a personal note though, IMHO, I believe that we will "know" those we knew here in this time. But I can only say that it is with "hope" that I believe this, or assume it, not by actual verse representation. Blessings to you Brother, in Christ, Christian

Ecclesiastes 9:5 For the living know that they will die; But the dead know nothing, And they have no more reward, For the memory of them is forgotten. Job 14:12-15 So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep (death). O that thou wouldest hide me in the grave, that thou wouldest keep me secret, until thy wrath be past, that thou wouldest appoint me a set time, and remember me! If a man die, shall he live again? all the days of my appointed time will I wait, till my change come. Thou shalt call, and I will answer thee: thou wilt have a desire to the work of thine hands. There will be nothing "cognizant" happening until Christ returns for His own at the end of this age. Those raised from their "sleep" and those "translated" into glorified form will then have their "reuinion". Grace and peace to you all, in Christ, Christian

It is always convenient to pull this scripture out of context to bolster a point, but understanding the verse in context, and using it fully as it should be, shatters this misconception. (1Peter 3:19) By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; (1Peter 3:20) Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. If we were supposedly being led to believe that this is speaking of a decent into Hell by Jesus, why would the days of Noah, and the eight souls being saved be tossed in here haphazardly and out of place in the dialog? As I had said before, this is referencing Christ being there "in the Spirit" with Noah before the flood, as he preached and pleaded with those who were "bound" in the "prison" of sin. I think it dangerous to speak for God, or Christ, and to write our own dialog where the Scriptures are silent. in Christ, His faithful servant, Christian

In adhering to my own guidelines for this thread, I will be cautious in my response to these questions because I am not looking to start a dogmatic/doctrinal knock-down-drag-out on this topic with those here who thrive on confrontation merely for the sake of it. This query stemmed from a conversation I held with a Christian brother, and I felt the need to expound on a question that I forgot to ask him. Knowing that the same view is held by other brothers and sisters I wanted to hear their side of the story without having all the accusations flying against them from the "self-righteous police" who feel the need to impose their pious views. Wouldn't they fit into all those catagories? No because they believe that "righteous" living and dead (those "in Christ") are resurrected and transformed at Christ's second coming. Christ never touches earth and we return to our heavenly "mansions" to be with him for the 1000 years At this same event all the wicked living are destroyed along with everything on the face of the earth, and the wicked dead are left in the grave until after the 1000 years at the "second" resurrection for the "great white throne judgement". They do not believe that Christ "descended into the caverns of earth to preach to the lost" upon his death (nor do I for that matter), but if this is the case then all those who have died prior to Christ's first appearance and crucifixion could only be judged by their "hearts" and works at the great white throne judgement. Revelation 20:12, since it is speaking about the second resurrection, does bear this out in saying... Revelation 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. Since there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ, we are not "saved by works",and we are not the "accused" or those destined to perish in this judgement, then it can only be speaking about those others, Jews included who have not accepted Christ as Lord and Savior. So Xan, given this scenario it complicates your statement since the dead Jews were not given this chance and could not be considered "righteous" by the standard of Christ that has been given to us. Yes, they would because there is only one way to the Father and that is through the Son. Jews who accept their Messiah are counted among the righteous; those who don't, aren't. in Christ, His faithful servant, Christian

Please read the guidelines for the thread please brothers and sisters.

This is a question that is asked of a specific group of individuals which hold to a particular view concerning the second coming of Christ. It is not a question intended to start a debate of any sort, so if you don't hold to this view your input here is not necessary. I pray wholeheartedly for your consideration regarding my request and that you will just please move on to debate elsewhere should you not agree with the subject matter. It is not my intention to criticize, correct, or chastise those holding this position, it is merely a personal curiousity and fact finding mission of mine. So the question is this: For those who hold to the belief that at Christ's second coming that the righteous living and dead (those "in Christ") will be resurrected; and that the wicked living, along with the earth will be completely destroyed and left desolate for 1000 years until the "second resurrection"... Where do the Jews fit into your categorization of the four types of individuals who represent all those ever born? (living righteous, dead righteous, living wicked, dead wicked) in Christ, His faithful servant, Christian

John 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. John 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day. John 6:43-44 Jesus therefore answered and said unto them, Murmur not among yourselves. No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. 1 Corinthians 15:22-23 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. Matthew 24:29-31 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. Revelation 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: over these the second death hath no power; but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. Certainly sounds like a rapture to me Blessings to all His faithful servant Christian

No Jesus did not "descend into "Hell" to "minister" to anyone. 1 Peter 3:18-20:

Isaiah 59:19 So shall they fear the name of the LORD from the west, and his glory from the rising of the sun. When the enemy shall come in like a flood, the Spirit of the LORD shall lift up a standard against him. Let us tarry no longer, nor placate our enemy with our fear... The conflict is nigh upon us, and the truth we now must hear. For we are sleeping in our tolerance, and unaware of things at hand Awaken now to what surrounds us, lest it shall kill us where we stand (N.T.N.) This war is coming, fortunately so will our Lord Jesus. Prepare for tribulation, and hope for the best, and rest in the knowledge that God will avenge us. Islam is not going to go away by not confronting it, better to shine the light on it so it's seen for what it is.... His faithful servant, Christian

Isn't that.....um..3 questions ?!?!

(Ddavid you are a funny boy !!!)

Greetings my Brother in Christ, Let me start by telling you that you are certainly not alone in this dilemma that you are experiencing. The youth of today is certainly under a heavy assault from the enemy of our Lord. Unlike previous generations, 'socialization' has become a rampant and morally corrupt orgy, with all visual and physical stimuli accepted as the modern 'culture'. It's not hard to understand the lust that men feel when one looks around at the over 'exposure' that surrounds us. It's all about sex and money to those who's minds have been darkened, and Satan has done his job well in distracting such a vast majority of God's children. There is no magic bullet, no strategic plan that guarantees success allowing you to live in both worlds. There is only Christ, and Him crucified that will save you...and you know this. Worldly weakness is inevitable, and part of our 'trial by fire' if you will. God has no need to be concerned for those who 'behave', He is more interested in those who do not, and what they will do, and whether or not they will lean on Him to make the changes in their lives they need to make. A red flag for anyone in their relationship with Christ is to see how many times they say "I", when they speak about themselves, as opposed to "He". You are fortunate to have been called by him at such an early age, you have a blessing cast upon you that many have not. You speak reverently of Him, and the Holy Spirit within you obviously keeps you concious of Him via your 'guilt' so take that into account. Brother we all go through 'wilderness' periods in our faith where He seperates us from the pack and isolates us to burn away some of our impurities. These are points when Bible study, prayer, and introspection can take us to a new mountaintop of our faith. You will not be 'alone' or not have 'anyone' should you seperate from these individuals, you will have Him...as it should be. Hanging out with those you know to jeopardize your health and faith is just simply not good practice (and Crystal Meth is just plain stupid), so you will need to make sacrifices to grow, and to grow up dude. I know of someone who made the ultimate sacrifice and endured a bloody, horrific fate so that we were guaranteed access to the largest source of strength that exists. You were given access to that strength when you accepted Christ as your Lord and Savior, so stop believing that you cannot make the changes you need to, your only convincing yourself that Satan is stronger than Christ, and that's simply not the case. Greater is He who is in you than he who is in the world...remember that. I do not speak to you as some hypocrite, or holier than thou, self righteous zealot. I walked a much worse path than you friend as a professional musician of 25 years, and did things that would probably make you blush. But He is faithful to those who seek Him, and He never gave up on me for some reason, but it was because I took action on my part too. When I started making changes, He began reaching out to me as never before. So I wish you strength Brother, and hope you will seek Him for the strength you need. Stop living for this world for it is passing away, and it's sinful pleasures are a trap. May His blessings find you and keep you, in His service, Christian

How 'bout them GIANTS !!! Ohhhhhhhhhhhh Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaah !!!! Nice to see the 17 and 0 Patriots finally lose it in the Big Game (They won 17 games in the 2007 season, that "18" win stat is garbage )

As the OP I'll take another shot at it and say... Why couldn't you have just sunk the H.M.S. Beagle? (Darwin's ship)

Praying for you Brother Robert y.b.i.C. Christian

Definitions 1 and 2 are the Pagan definitions or concepts of 'Hades', which originated in Ancient Babylon. They are a part of the teachings of 'Mystery Babylon'. Hell is a word first used by the RCC when they adopted the Pagan belief in eternal torment. They, the Pagans, believed that upon death the wicked went to to the 'underworld', a place of torment, which Greek mythology called 'Hades' and eventually morphed into the word 'hell'. I have an interesting study on the history of the concept of hell. Brother did you ever receive my PM asking about the availability of this study?I wouldn't mind checking it out. in His Service, Christian

We all would...but if only one....which one?

In all fairness Brother, the same holds true of the reverse of this request. There is no undeniable, unquestionable scripture that is going to prove that this is indeed the same Lazarus that's being spoken of. Other than assumption and coincidence regarding the name of Lazarus, we have no incontrovertible evidence in the scriptures telling us that this is indeed the same man. Blessings to you Brother, in Christ, Christian

Greetings Brother Massorite, I have one question regarding your statement above. It is referenced, or inferred, more than a few times in the Scriptures that all the dead "not in Christ" will be raised for judgement in the end (at the Great White Throne judgement), as we discussed in our other thread. If your statement above is true, then why would the dead that are "not in Christ" need to be raised again to be judged again in Revelation 20:11-13? Blessings to you dear Brother, in His service, Christian

Greetings Brother givennewname, Given the context of these verses: Ezekiel 18:4-9 (4) Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die. (5) But if a man be just, and do that which is lawful and right, (6) And hath not eaten upon the mountains, neither hath lifted up his eyes to the idols of the house of Israel, neither hath defiled his neighbour's wife, neither hath come near to a menstruous woman, (7) And hath not oppressed any, but hath restored to the debtor his pledge, hath spoiled none by violence, hath given his bread to the hungry, and hath covered the naked with a garment; (8) He that hath not given forth upon usury, neither hath taken any increase, that hath withdrawn his hand from iniquity, hath executed true judgment between man and man, (9) Hath walked in my statutes, and hath kept my judgments, to deal truly; he is just, he shall surely live, saith the Lord GOD. I fail to see what is quoted out of context here by Willow99? It is saying, as she has said, that the soul that continues in sin without repentance towards God, and faith in Christ, shall die the second death and thereby shall be separated from the presence of God, enduring his wrath. Blessings to you brother, in His service, Christian