Rober H

We need to warn the sheep about wolves. Paul Crouch has been named and quoted in this thread he is basically the person who runs TBN. Nothing happens on TBN without his say so and the men who are on that program keep silent about the blatant "word faith teachings" and vile methods used by TBN to raise money are giving support to these doctrines by silence. They are not warning the sheep about Paul Crouch, Kenneth Copeland, Benny Hinn, John Avanzini, and dozens of others. We are to mark men and you cannot do that without naming their names and avoid them which is impossible to do without knowing who they are. We are to both expose the error and the one's promoting them. Romans 16:17-18 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple. We are to preach against false teachers. Here is a website dedicated to warning the church about false doctrine and who promotes it. Almost all of these men and women(maybe all of them) have been on TBN Jesus warns us about wolves in general and to beware of them. Matthew 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. The bible repeatedly names countless names and the errors these men promote and I have repeatedly provided scripture to prove it. Benny Hinn is by far the biggest name on TBN and has the full support and endorsement of Paul and Jan Crouch. With one word Paul Crouch can pull the plug on anyone who preaches against the "prosperity gospel" on TBN. All one has to do is go back and read the replys in this thread to see that there are many people that are unaware of these teachings or find ways to excuse these teachers and their slimy heresies. The scriptures are clear. We are to warn each other of false doctrines and the deceitful wolves who promote them. I intend to both name the error and name the teachers that promote them . 2 Timothy 2:16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness. 2 Timothy 2:17 And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus; 2 Timothy 2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.

2 Timothy 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. That verse comes to mind...

Interesting. It must have been a real eye opener working for TBN. I agree the church cannot be warned and protected if false doctrines and the wolves promoting them are not pointed out. What is more important than what I think is what the bible says. Romans 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. It is impossible to mark them and avoid them without naming names and disputing their doctrines.

There has been huge disagreements in this discussion. There has been disagreement on if it is biblical to name the names of the people spreading heresey, false prophecies and teachings or just the teachings themselves. There is disagreement on if it is biblical to or not to warn the church about the wolves preying on the flock without confronting the wolf first. There is disagreement about the integrity TBN and it's founders are to be praised or rebuked. Here is a quote from the first page of this thread. I don't find it difficult to see that there has been plenty of disagreement.

No wonder Hinn and Crouch "smile like saints one minute" and then growl the next minute at anyone who dare to question and expose them for the con artists they really are. Arm yourselves with the truth of God's word. Here is a link to "Let Us Reason Ministries" with some shocking statments made on TBN by other money loving false teachers. http://www.letusreason.org/Pent37.htm Here you go. Paul crouch says doctrine is not important that if God doesn't shoot us for pointing out doctrinal error than he will. I don't know about you guys but I would call this Heresey. 2 Timothy 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. 2 Timothy 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

Luke 21:19 In your patience possess ye your souls. Boy, do I believe that! Here is some information that I have already provided and at that more than once. There are false teachings (doctrines), and prophecies to be found on this site!

Philippians 4:6 Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God. Philippians 4:7 And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus. Philippians 4:8 Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things. If those words don't bring comfort to us then I don't know what would.

Buildings for the church to meet are a good thing. It provides a refuge for believers to assemble and a home base from which to send people out to preach the gospel. I know that the early church met in homes, temples and even on the beach. We should encourage believers to meet and come together. Hebrews 10:24-25 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works: Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

Marnie, what is the church? Is it the church wood, brick and stone? I agree we all have to answer to God for what we teach and believe. Is Christ the head of a building or the head of the body of believers? I am not trying to be a wise guy, honest. In His service, Robert

Very interesting and well written poem. Thanks, Robert

apothanein kerdos, You know quite a bit about the false doctrines and vile practices of some of the men mentioned. I was wondering if you would be interested in sharing this information in this thread. I for one would be very interested in learning more. Thanks, Robert

I didn't say people who discuss it are obessed. I said that those who go on and on attacking the person whilst not dealing with the belief are obsessed. You're attacking people but not necessarily beliefs. I am saying the Biblical model, even in the passages you show, attack the belief and practice and then mention the person. Such as someone sinned...but the sin has to be recognized prior to the person being named. There is much more emphasis upon false beliefs in the Bible then upon false teachers. Thus, to go on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on abut a pointless issue shows obsession. I disagree. I have provided the information and quotes on the beliefs of these men and false prophecies in previous posts. There is an emphasis on both false teachers and false doctrines in the bible. I have provided scriptures to prove it. 2 Peter 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. 2 Timothy 4:2-4 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. TBN is a hotbed of heresey and a support system for false teachers and false prophets. I refuse to remain silent on these issues. Acts 20:29-31 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them. Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears. Paul was right in preaching night and day for the space of three with tears. He went on and on and using him as an example so will I.

apothanein kerdos, If you look back I addressed the issues people have brought up. I didn't take it hard when it was suggested that people that discuss these issues are "obsessed and unloving" even though my name wasn't specifically mentioned. I am not interested in making this an ego battle. I don't want this thread to be closed. Please continue to post your perspectives and your takes on this issue. In His service, Robert W Hurzeler

Leviticus 10:1-2 And Nadab and Abihu, the sons of Aaron, took either of them his censer, and put fire therein, and put incense thereon, and offered strange fire before the LORD, which he commanded them not. And there went out fire from the LORD, and devoured them, and they died before the LORD. Notice that Nadab and Abihu were named and they died for their error. The bible states that these things recorded in there Old Testament were written for our benefit. Paul writes concerning the things which happened to Israel are recorded for our admontition. 1 Corinthians 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come. All Through the Old Testament and the New Testament names are named and their errors pointed out. It is clear that today in order to mark and avoid those who promote error we need to do the same. The issue here is that those who wish to do be obedient to the scriptures are being called "Neo-Pharisees and Heresey Hunters". Paul Crouch and Benny Hinn have publically and on national television cursed those who wish to contend for the faith and sound doctrine. Benny Hinn declared that anyone who comes against his ministry will suffer and he claims that he is speaking with the authority of the Holy Spirit. This is fact. I would encourage those who "don't know" if these allegations are true to click on the following link and hear Hinn's curse for themselves. http://www.intotruth.org/wof/Hinn.html

One thing I would like to clarify. There is no one day that people have to go to church. It is important to fellowship with other believers for encouragement and edification. Sunday is the day that most Christians go to church and I think it is important to have a day set aside for fellowship but there is no "law" that states that we have to go to a building on Sunday to worship. Don't get me wrong I am not against church buildings. On the contrary I see the need for them quite clearly. There have been times I have met with other believers in houses, apartments, parks and even in barns and I was greatly edified by attending these meetings. I left a church because the leadership was trying to intimidate people to coming to both morning and evening services on Sunday and implying that if you didn't show up you were not as worthy as those who did. Many people who were very active in witnessing on the street left that church as a result. People that didn't show up on Wednesday nights were talked about. Other factors were involved as well but that attitude reflected the over all problem. There was one young couple that were checking out the church and were not yet born again. When the pastor began putting down the people who only came to one service on Sunday and that these people were simply "pew sitters" and insinuated that they were lazy and didn't do anything but come to be spoon fed the young couple left and never came back. There were also many who had "home bible studies" that had been going on for years. The elders of this church tried to intimidate the congregation into only going to "leadership approved" bible studies held in the church building. This policy had nothing to with doctrine but was all about control. This shift in attitude took the joy out it for me. Church is not a physical building made with hands. The believers are the church. Ephesians 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; Ephesians 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; Ephesians 2:21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: Ephesians 2:22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

Good post Matthijah, John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. John 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. John 20:27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing. John 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. Hebrews 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. Hebrews 1:9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows. Hebrews 1:10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands: The JW's get their doctrines force fed to them from the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society. They focus on the teachings they receive every month from their headquarters.

I could listen to a good preacher and enjoy fellowship every night too. The early church met daily. Acts 2:46-47 And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart, Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

I love this one! Turn your eyes upon Jesus Helen H. Lemmel, 1864 - 1961 O soul, are you weary and troubled? No light in the darkness you see? There's light for a look at the Saviour, And life more abundant and free! Turn your eyes upon Jesus Look full in His wonderful face, And the things of earth will grow strangely dim In the light of His glory and grace Thru death into life everlasting He passed, and we follow Him there; Over us sin no more hath dominion - For more than conquerors we are! Turn your eyes upon Jesus Look full in His wonderful face, And the things of earth will grow strangely dim In the light of His glory and grace His word shall not fail you - He promised, Believe Him, and all will be well; Then go to a world that is dying, His perfect salvation to tell! Turn your eyes upon Jesus Look full in His wonderful face, And the things of earth will grow strangely dim In the light of His glory and grace Helen H. Lemmel, 1864 - 1961

If I am driving in my car and an old program of "Thru the Bible" is on with the late J Vernon McGee expounding on the scriptures I will listen. I don't find much on television that is that good but there are a few men who still preach a sound sermon in spite of their surroundings.

I like that one myself and to that I would like to add. Psalms 27:1 <<A Psalm of David.>> The LORD is my light and my salvation; whom shall I fear? the LORD is the strength of my life; of whom shall I be afraid? Psalms 27:2 When the wicked, even mine enemies and my foes, came upon me to eat up my flesh, they stumbled and fell. Psalms 27:3 Though an host should encamp against me, my heart shall not fear: though war should rise against me, in this will I be confident. Psalms 27:4 One thing have I desired of the LORD, that will I seek after; that I may dwell in the house of the LORD all the days of my life, to behold the beauty of the LORD, and to enquire in his temple.

Well, more power to you. I would have never guessed you knew so much. Thank you for sharing. Now back to the topic... Paul thought it was extremely important to watch and warn the brethren and elders of the church about those who would spread false doctrine. I am sure he did for the benefit of people like myself who are a little slower than others. Acts 20:29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. Acts 20:30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them. Acts 20:31 Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears. Paul wept and warned the church for three years night and day. If Paul thought it was important to warn the church then. How much more now. No one I know of or know personally has been that dedicated to warning us about deception. There is a reason that TBN is one of the richest and most powerful ministries in the Christian and non-Christian world with millions of viewers and contributors world wide. These men and their books and teachings are very popular and have had a tremendous influence on the church. Benny Hinn's book "Good Morning Holy Spirit" was a bestseller for months. Someone is reading and supporting this man. His crusades are packed full every where he goes. His books sell like hot cakes. I personally know a group of women who travelled three hundred miles to see him and came back singing his praises. I know many Christians who have been deceived by TBN and led in to heresies such as the word faith doctrines. For those of us who wish to have a tad bit of knowledge of what the Word-Faith Movement is about and who is promoting it may I suggest this link? http://www.deceptioninthechurch.com/wrdfaith.txt The following is a excerpt from the above link. This is a link to the main page containing the quotes teachings of men who frequent TBN the most popular "Christian" television station in the world. http://www.deceptioninthechurch.com/word-faith.html Romans 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.

My friend preached on Romans chapter 8 at our church about 10 years ago and I left with great joy in my heart and knew that nothing could separate me from Jesus. Romans 8:38-39 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. Those words bring me great comfort and joy. I read those verses to my mother as she lie in bed dying from cancer. Those verses were the last words she heard before she left her earthly tent to be "present with the Lord".

Rusty, Christ could return for His bride at any moment. I take comfort in that too. 1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 1 Thessalonians 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 1 Thessalonians 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

There is another method used to silence people from warning the church about Christian public figures who are teaching false doctrines and leading thousands into apostacy and false doctrine. They will accuse us of being "obsessed" with them etc. The same under handed tactic is used when someone speaks out against homosexuality or same sex marriage. They are called "homophobic" or closet homosexuals or insecure about their masculinity etc. I am not falling for it. Was Paul over doing it and "harping"? Acts 20:26 Wherefore I take you to record this day, that I am pure from the blood of all men. Acts 20:27 For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God. Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood. Acts 20:29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. Acts 20:30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them. Acts 20:31 Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears. Did Paul name names? 2 Timothy 2:17-18 And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus; Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some. 1 Timothy 1:20 Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme. 2 Timothy 4:10 For Demas hath forsaken me, having loved this present world, and is departed unto Thessalonica; Crescens to Galatia, Titus unto Dalmatia. 2 Timothy 4:14 Alexander the coppersmith did me much evil: the Lord reward him according to his works: 2 Timothy 3:8 Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith. What about John did he harp? 1 John 3:12 Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous. 3 John 1:9-10 I wrote unto the church: but Diotrephes, who loveth to have the preeminence among them, receiveth us not. Wherefore, if I come, I will remember his deeds which he doeth, prating against us with malicious words: and not content therewith, neither doth he himself receive the brethren, and forbiddeth them that would, and casteth them out of the church. How about Jude did he point out evil and name names? Jude 1:11 Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core. Paul literally begged the Brethren to "Mark and avoid" those who teach bad doctrine. That would be impossible without naming names! Romans 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. What about "poor Judas"? Should we bring up that man's name anymore? After all he isn't here to defend himself.

I know I am saved and that is by grace apart from works of the law or how many good deeds I have done. 1 John 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God. I know that I have eternal life and that I shall never perish. John 10:27-29 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. This thread is for those who know they have eternal life and want to share when the "penny dropped" and they came to the knowledge of this "good news". There are other threads for those who want to debate.