Rober H

I understand what you are saying but the clarification was in the statement. "Philosophy instead of scripture."

Another minister in TBN's gallery of rogues and false teachers is Robert Schuller. Robert Schuller believes that we should only use what he calls "positive methods" to reach the lost. The bible is not a positve or negative book in the sense Schuller means it. The bible is a book that preaches truth. The following quote is taken from http://www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/expose...ler/general.htm Is this what Jesus and His apostles taught? Matthew 9:10 And it came to pass, as Jesus sat at meat in the house, behold, many publicans and sinners came and sat down with him and his disciples. Luke 5:8 When Simon Peter saw it, he fell down at Jesus' knees, saying, Depart from me; for I am a sinful man, O Lord. Acts 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; John 5:14 Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee. Robert Schuller incorporates worldly philospophy into his teachings which are contrary to scripture. Contrast this with what Job said... "Wherefore I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes."Job 42:6 Beware of those who preach philosophy instead of scripture. Colossians 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. Check this article out. http://www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/expose...ler/general.htm

Every Christian has the obligation to be a "Berean" and search the scriptures to judge the teachings of men to see if the bible agrees with what they are preaching. Acts 17:10-11 And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews. These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. If the teaching does not line up with biblical doctrine then we need to expose the doctrine as false and name the person spreading the false teaching and separate ourselves from them. Romans 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. Titus 3:10 A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject; Paul named the names of those who preached false doctrines. 2 Timothy 2:16-18 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness. And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus; Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.

Jesus also said a house divided against itsself can not stand. If a minister preaches the true plan of salvation, he is not of the Devil. One of Satans servants can not preach the true plan of Salvation. IF a minister teaches the following, he is not of Satan. Jesus is the Son of God. He came to Earth in the Form of a man. He died, rose, and is seated at the Right hand of the father. The only way to salvation is in faith in Him. Satans servants can not preach the Gospel. Oh yes they can. Galatians 1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Galatians 1:7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. Galatians 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. Galatians 1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed. It is possible to preach the gospel and yet add something to it and pervert the gospel. A false teacher can preach that Jesus died for our sins and that He was buried and rose again from the dead and then add that keeping the law of Moses, circumcision or going to church on Sunday is a "requirment to be saved" and it becomes "another gospel which is not another". We have the bible as our measuring rod for truth.

The following quote is from http://www.equip.org/free/DM166.htm Some people will write long posts using worldly philosophical arguments to defend the Masons and other groups which teach false doctrines which a Christian which believes the word of God should in no way condone or approve. The bible warns us about such tactics. Colossians 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

There have been Mormon, Christian, Catholic, Atheist, Agnostic war heros. They have raised families and contributed to their communities. All these people have things that they could be praised for. I am sure there were Baal worshipers in the Old Testament that did some things that were commendable among men. This isn't the issue. I admire Catholics who stand on the street year after year silently protesting with signs reminding their communities that abortion is taking a human life and is wrong. That doesn't mean I am going to attend their services and praise their teachings and doctrines. Quite the opposite. The Masons teach doctrines that are clearly against the doctrines taught in the bible and they should be pointed out and Christians ( I don't care what non-Christians do) need to be warned. No amount of words or drawn out excuses and rationalizations is going to change that fact. Can you imagine Elijah praising the priests of Baal and putting down the faithful members of the children of Israel for wanting to separate from their heathen ceremonies and functions? I can't... 2 Corinthians 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? 2 Corinthians 6:15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? 2 Corinthians 6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 2 Corinthians 6:17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you, 2 Corinthians 6:18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

This isn't a court of law. I am going to keep posting quotes and transcripts. It isn't important if you believe them or not. Thanks, Robert

Butero wrote Robert responds: No I didn't and no you didn't. If you have the inclination go back and read what I wrote and represent me correctly. I gave specific scriptures.

It doens't sound like you are interested in attacking false doctrine unless it is connected with people who want to point out error and warn others. Romans 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. If you can't see what is wrong with the TBN crowd making these outrageous statements and promises then I doubt if all the proof, scriptures and words in the world will change your mind. Thanks, Robert

I am sorry. I am not that desperate to make a point.

This is not even connected to our prayers nor is it connected to a prayer language. Cannot be uttered In other words the Spirit makes intercession for us. It is silent we don't just rattle off gibberish and call it a "prayer language". This isn't a heavenly language that Paul is referring to. Cor 13:1 is a the use of hyperbole which is an extreme exaggerationthat is used to make a point. He continues to use it in the following verses. 1 Corinthians 13:2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing. 1 Corinthians 13:3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing. No one is going to help the poor and given his body to be burned for the faith and yet lacks love. This is hyperbole... When did an angel ever speak to man in a tongue (language) that could not be understood. What passes for tongues (multiple languages) today is nonsense that is uttered and groaned but has no meaning. To a bible search on tongue or tongues. It always means a language or languages or the organ of the mouth except for the exception of "tongues of fire" in the book of Acts. There is no scriptural backing for the Charismatic and Pentecostal gibberish be passes off as a prayer language today. TBN is a sad testament to where this type of confusion and gross misrepresentation leads. The word of God edifies gibberish does not.

You left out the fact that He was talking to the apostles and that the sign gifts were to confirm the word. Mark 16:20 And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.

Could you share the scriptures to back up your contention? Thanks, Robert

Doctrine is important. It isn't about liking or disliking programs on TBN. If you guys don't have a problem with people like Jesse Duplantis and his false teachings and blashpemy then I don't know what to tell you. Words of Jesse to fellow heretic Benny Hinn. I heard this interview myself. http://www.letusreason.org/Popteac12.htm

Hello Butero, I agree that the gift Holy Spirit is for those alive then, those alive now and those who follow behind us. 2 Corinthians 1:21-22 Now he which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, is God; Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts. Ephesians 1:12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. Ephesians 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Ephesians 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory. That does not mean that the sign gifts given as the word of God was being completed are still for today. The sign gifts which have passed did not include the scrambled gibberish which is passed off as tongues=languages these days. The supernatural gift of being able to speak in a language that you did not know for the purpose of witnessing to a non-believer has ceased. I don't know why missionaries to foreign countries learn the language of the people they are to evangelizes if the gift of speaking in an unkown tongue is still available today. Butero writes: Robert responds, I have never been to a Baptist college. Everything I have learned comes from my own bible studies. I have a high school education and I barely graduated at that. Thank you for the compliment though. In His word,

good luck with that. I am a Christian, luck is not something I factor in. I have God's word and I believe what it says. Hebrews 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation. It isn't a question of luck. It is a matter of faith... "God said it, I believe it, that settles it." Job 19:25 For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth: That is why I take God's word over private revelation and private interpretation of scripture.

Many people call people who have another gospel "good Christians" because they have done good works on the earth. Many times when fatal doctrinal errors concerning salvation are pointed out the verse "judge not" is pulled out. This verse has become a catch all to excuse extremely dangerous doctrines which confuse and confound those new or weak in the faith. Remember Satan can disguise himself as an angel of light and seduce people. Many times his ministers do good works and sound godly in their speech. 2 Corinthians 11:13-15 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works. We cannot warn and exhort the church if these folks are not called to task.

Acts 1:11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven. Jesus is going to physically return to theis earth. That is a fact. His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives. Zechariah 14:3-4 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle. And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south. John 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. John 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

Many non-Christian religions know in their hearts that they have received visions and verbal messages from God. I know people who claim that "Mary" appeared to them and gave them messages. Joseph Smith claimed that the Father and the Son came to him and personally gave him revelation. All these people make the "same claim". Should we trust our feelings or the word of God which endures forever? Peter called the scripture a "more sure word" placing it above his own experience. The apostles had a need for revelation and the "sign gifts" were used to give them credibility with the Jews. 2 Peter 1:16 For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty. 2 Peter 1:17 For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. 2 Peter 1:18 And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount. 2 Peter 1:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: 2 Peter 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. 2 Peter 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost. Heed the sure word. Tongues one of the sign gifts were given not for believers but for those "who believe not". 1 Corinthians 14:20 Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men. 1 Corinthians 14:21 In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord. "This people" are the Jews as Paul is quoting Isaiah 28:11-12. 1 Corinthians 14:22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe. Do a word search on "tongues" and you will see that tongues=languages (plural) and tongue= language singular. If I pray in Spanish to an English speaking congregation "I do pray well" but I alone am edified if I am the only one who understands Spanish. It would be better if I kept silent and prayed to myself unless an interpreter is present. Think about it... Robert

Often times when a person points out doctrinal error or blatant sin practiced or taught by an individual, organization or group of people someone pulls out Matthew 7 as a verse to silence the person who is exposing the problem. "Judge not!" Another verse misquoted and abused is "he who is free from sin let him cast the first stone". John

Exactly!

Being saved for good works is the opposite of being saved by good works. A man could be a good husband and provider for his family. He could give his time and resources to help the poor but unless that man believes on Jesus and the gospel the bible says His works are as "filthy rags". Isaiah 64:6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away. Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; One aspect of "gaining the whole world" is having the praise of men but not believing the gospel of God. Mark 16:15-16 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

You mean sell all you have and follow Christ as the Lord told the rich young ruler? How would one do that today? Thanks, Robert well, robert, i really dont know how a person would go about doing that. i havent held a paying job for the the past 6 years and i dont own anything. i am blessed, if you can call it that, with a wife who pays for what is here and that is her choice because i guess she doesnt want to live a meager existence. i would just as soon live off the land, but that is not available any more. i did that for a while in alaska, but that went the way of many better things i have known in my 47 years. i no longer have the stomach for the work i once did and i have no desire to do work that i know will harm myself, my health, or other people and guess what? there isnt much out there. i am a natural healer and wont go near a doctor. in fact, i could be perfectly fine as homeless. i need no provisions that the lord does not provide. i dont need a shelter - it is much healthier not to be in one. i eat my food raw so i dont need fire. i drink distilled water so that is a burden, but i dont have to drink distilled water and i wont drink anything else but water. i can make my own medicine, know the use of herbs, dont like alcohol or soap or perfume. i love to be in the sun and i like to be active. maybe i should just take a walk like forrest gump and see if anyone tags along? these times are not conducive to the spiritual life. to abandon it all seems like insanity to most people. it makes perfect sense to me. btw, jesus is the truth and he is the same yesterday, today, and forever. everything he said has been in application since he spoke it. i have had too many people tell me too many lies about what the bible says. god is able to speak to me through his word just fine and it is quite clear to me what it says, and what it does not say. in fact, i know it backwards and forwards. You make absolutely no sense to me at all. I really am not enjoying this discussion. Leaching off your wife isn't giving up anything.