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I was not insinuating that Being homosexual was not a sin. I indeed said it was a sin and clearly a sin because it is mentioned many times and many different ways in the bible that it is. And abortion is mentioned in the bible, it says thou shalt not kill. I also never said that It was okay to be gay because people were just trying to be happy. Wow, I can't beleive I am even responding to that guy, seems like his answer is just mean and somewhat foolish. What I am trying to do is help (those who are capable of understanding)see that the christian stand on homosexuality is not a lisence to hate them, and it is often used as one. In fact and for that matter, prostitutes, drug addicts, homeless, whoever, Christianity is not a lisence to hate anyone. I am saying that the homosexual movement, prostitues, drug addicts, are product of our heartless and uncaring society and the sort of people who might say, "yeah I 'm gay.. no I'm just happy" Jesus went and had supper with the harlots and tax collectors. He loved them even though they were doing terrible things. Most prostitues are selling their bodies, to earn a living or because they are being forced to by someone, theives steal because they are taught by our society that money is the way to be happy, it solves everything. Anyone with an ounce of intelligence can tell that it is our society that is causeing this. If we were a entire world of God loving Christians, there would be no stealing, prostituting, or drugs. It is the lack of christian caring and love among the unsaved, and among many of the claimed to be saved, that are a responsible for what is happening. How can we love in the name of Christ if we have no compassion for the plights of our brothers and sisters. There is no love without compassion. "I am not sent to the saved, but to the sinner." "Love thy neighbor as thyself" these are not accidently placed in the bible either. I am not going to bother to post on this board anymore. I thought I was finding a community of Christians, not conflicts. This is a simple premise our call to love and help people should be one of the strongest we have. To veiw the sinner from the point of veiw that they are terrible not worth our love, needing to be wiped out, not worth our understanding of their situation, is just ridculous. I was a sinner once, so were every single one of you because "All have sinned and fallen short of the Glory of God." What was the reason that you sinned? I bet you had a reason. I bet you were trying to be happy, by getting out of trouble, by stealing that thing you wanted, by lusting after someone. Was it right of course not, I never said homosexuality is right. We did it because we were trying to find the thing that was missing in us, and that was a relationship with our creator. I'm done!

Boy the persectuction of the Saints makes me shake with both fear and anger. In these foreign countries, where the Government decides or back only one religion, how brave you must be to go there and spread the word. How much more true for you that you are working out your own salvation with fear and trembling. How much more close to the walk that Jesus walked and his appostles. Would I be willing to lay down my life? All I can do is pray I never have to find out, and that should I have to, God will give me the strength to do the right thing. I assume that most of us in this sight are not from such place, but as we watch God ren out of school, out of court houses, off the paper money, lawsuit after lawsuit, I start to shake all over again. Oh Lord, I pray that the world be renewed to you, that you pour your spirit upon us again, for revival and awakening. May we find the strength to reject that which is unsound practice, for our families, for our cities, for our countries and for our world. Thank you for all things, In Jesus name we pray, Amen.

i do still think Society is creating (perhaps not every homosexual) but this large influx that is openly happening in front of us. The whole world is covered with sex in advertising, and TV, and everywhere you look there is open porn, just look at the internet. We are accepting them as "married" couples. Yes I am against that. Countires of the world are promoting homosexuality for population control, there is box to check if you are gay on your navy application. The world is starting to make married, single or gay sound like a multiple choice question, just another one of the possible choices, not to mention alcohol and drug use being the in thing to do, which lowers the ability to make good choices. Not enough people supporting their churches, not enough parents taking the spiritual education of their children seriously, not enough people who care to get involved and help them find the truth and the healing they need. I'm sorry, I do think our generation will be judged poorly over this matter in the final judgement.

I heard you say that he your freind) had some kind of increased sex drive that made him unable to be satisfied with women. I am not completely against the idea that some people make the choice to be gay just to be immoral. Some people just want to fly in face of convention, some people want to serve the devil, some people are just perverted and want to take and get every kind of pleasure they can find. The case of your freind however, ( a man who wanted to squash the feelings) doesn't seem like he was doing in because of those reasons. Seems to me that he was trying to meet a need inside him he could not find a natual way to meet. ( he was unsatisfied with women) These gays that are saying that they are born that way, that they had no choice, the gays who want to be in a marriage or single relationship, they seem to be to be trying to find the natural things, an unnatural way. Have you ever seen a gay man kiss another? I admit only on TV have I seen this, but I see that they are trying to connect you know, looking for something real. I know this sounds a little weird. But I think the most of them are just trying to find love where they can, because of which of course, they are rejecting Gods chosen plan for them to be male and female relationships, and they are rejecting his help to let them heal in the places that cannot find satisfaction in the natural. Doing things our own way of our own will( helping ourselves), rather than God's will is a sin that gets all of from time to time. Again I apologize for seeming so harsh. I kind of understand why they want to march. They really just want to say, we have a right to live and breath, and thrive just like you do. They are under terrible circumstance where they have to be afraid for themselves and they just want to say to the world stop pushing us around and makeing us afraid. I try not to sin, but I sure hope that my sins are never greeted with such a public and fearful pressure, I certainly prefer the forgiveness of Jesus. Again I apologize for my harshness, and bluntness, I know most of the Christian folks on this web sight know that forgiveness, patience, mercy, and loving your neighbor as yourself is what we all should be doing, but on this topic of homosexuality, conversations go quickly into burning out the heathen and I wish we would learn from the mistakes of the past, and stop taking God's word to the alter of hate.

I never thought about the concept of Grace before, I have always considered it love. When I was a child and I watched the TV and saw Jesus being crucified for the first time I remember crying. There is a certain understanding at that moment that he is doing that for you, because of you. His love for us is so obvious, and that God would give him to us, that is love, he let his son do this thing because he loved us. I guess for me there is no difference between grace and love. I know that when my kids make me mad, I still give them ice cream, it's because I love them. Grace to me is that part of love that is unconditional, we love no matter what they did, we still help them, we still want the best for them, we still feed them and take care of their needs. Isn't that what he did, he still loved us when he sent his son to help us be forgiven. Only he loved us despite all the things we were doing that we would have stopped loving each other for. Jesus paid the debt for our sins, he didn't have to, and God didn't have to send him, but out of this special and perfect love for us he has, he was able to cut us a break, even when we didn't deserve it. Like when a parent goes and pays for his kid to take summer school, because he failed and blew off the school year. He really didn't earn this second chance at not failing, but we give it to him anyway, because we love him and want to see him happy and succeed. His love is special, it doesn't fail, it is truely perfect and unconditional, that's the grace we have.

You are right of course, homosexuality is a sin, it is very obvious that God dissapproves. If it had only been mentioned once, but no many times he made it clear. And yes, I guess they are making the choice to be homosexuals, because no it is not a natural conditon. Babies are not born with those ideas inside of them. But they are a hated people, I am guessing there is far more discrimantion against them that for the samaritans. I never heard of Samaritan bashing, but Gays are beaten all the time just for leaving their house. The point I am trying to make about the choice though, is that they are just looking for another way to answer their problem. If a blind man takes a seeing eye dog, he is solving his problem. He did not want to be blind, and what ever caused it to be so, he did not ask for either. I am saying they are hurt. They did not ask to be tempted by some other man, or beaten by their fathers, or rejected by thier mothers, or repulsed by a female relationship with a horrible woman, or raped as children, or the many many other things that are causeing them to be unable to be happy in a natural relationship. It doesn't have to be a single horrible event, maybe they were rejected a little at a time by other kids, or hated in school, or not preferred over a sibling. I am saying there was damage caused to them or the natural things would be working naturally just like God intended them to. But they are not able to feel the things they should for the opposite sex, so instead of looking for a healing from God, they look somewhere else for love. It is really a sad thing. Just like the blind man will never know the color blue, and he can make due with the seeing eye dog, they are making due the best they can. It's like the story of porn, if they didn't make it noone would look, and if people didn't want to look noone would make it. Who is more guilty. The gays or the society which created them. Of course they have to be taught what they are doing is wrong in the eyes of God, But do we walk up to them and say terrible sinner, or do we say, God has something better for you and you can have it if you ask him.

I really wish I had the words of comfort for you. I used to sleep a lot when I was troubled. Things always seemed better after a little rest. Maybe you should go take a little nap, say a prayer first, and then try to relax. Things always seem worse when we are fatigued. That fearfully and wonderfully made stuff, is true about the body God gave us to. It does some wonderful healing while it's asleep. The mind heals to, and God talks to us in our dreams. Just hang in there, there is a whole society of people on this web sight that pray for each other. I am sure that many prayers will not go unheard by God. What's that scripture in that one song, "Come now and let us reason together, come now and talk it over, though our sin be as red a scarlet he'll wash us whiter than snow." It always reminds me of him putting his arm over my shulder and leading me to a quiet place under a tree, where we can talk, about anything and everything. That's what you need right now. Take some time and just go and reason with him and talk things over. God Bless you and be well.

hey, I know about what's for dinner. Those donations the church get are things nobody else wants, but I just take it as a challenge. download music from the internet, and games for my kids too. Get my movies at the Library for free if we can't afford to rent, or swap with friends and family and watch the one they have i haven't seen while they watch mine. Have had many a meal of hotdogs and canned green beans, but that don't matter. I just became a more creative cook, and a much more frugal shopper. Started buying these ten pound bags of chicken leg quarters frozen with parts of the feathers still on them, ACK ACK. Thawed them peeled the skin off, and made lots of good stuff, chicken soup, barbeque chicken, chicken pot pie, chicken an dumplings, this stuff i proudly called chicken junk which is chicken pieces in mushroom soup with canned vegetables over noodle. IT is actually good. Started to hate chicken, but whenever Isee those bags on sale for 3.90 I buy one, got one in the freezer now. I will just have to be more clever than poverty is. You are fearfully and wonderfully made, dear freind, and you are capable of more than you think. If life is a challenge then take the challenge, I bet you are a winner.

I guess my advice seems a little dumb, because I didn't tell you That I was saved and my spouse was not. I didn't tell you that we almost divorced. I didn't tell you that I found out two days before we were married that he was doing something i thought he had given up, and I married him anyway (even after the warning). Time is a hard thing to give someone, but it really looks different after the time has passed. I almost left him to, packed and moved actully, but found i was still miserable and poor, but now heartbroke and lonely. It took three years to work through the first time he got himself fired from a good job because of poor attendance. And it took a lot more years to get over other things, but God can fix things if we trust in him too. He can fix this too. He started going back to Church with me when I came home, and he has kept it up to. I don't advise you to leave. If you need a breather take one, find a parent or a friend and flop on the couch for a few days. I bet you'll find like I did, that you don't think he can live without you and your worried about how he feels and how he's making it. I was home in three days. Of course I had also complicated our marriage by letting hi m think I was willing to leave him. That took time to work out to. Still working on it in fact, when we fight, I get a lot of I supose your going to pack your bags. But we are better. Much much better, and it was time and God that Got us through day by day, and in more time, we'll be better still. Pray for him, don't push him, and hang in there. God will take your vows seriously only if you do. Try not to stress on the money. That was the cause of everything that went wrong with us. Put the stuff in it's place, and your marriage higher, and God higher still, and just keep breathing. I had that melting sensation too when things were at their worst. For me it was the walls, I just wanted to melt into them and dissappear. Don't let that stuff set into your mind. Find something to do and someone to help, there is always someway you can help someone, it builds up your self esteem and helps you feel better. HAng in there and I will remember you in my prayers. God can handle this, I am proof.

Okay, I started to type this once and then I lost it all. I wanted to tell you that there are a lot of folks going through this poverty thing. It does terrible things to a marriage. Don't let it. I have been poor for about forever, and in the begining it used to eat away at me. I would blame my husband,and myself, and we would fight like cats and dogs. Sometimes, we just have to let God handle the details. If your breathing, and your warm and dry and safe, then that is something to be thankful for. Love doesn't have to be dependant on comfort although it is easier to love when we are comfortable. I just started to worry less and less about things. Trusting God more and more. The help doesn't come in the form of a large windfall, but by his daily provision. Thats how the prayer goes right, day by day our daily bread. I have had bear cupboards, and said hey Lord, the well is running dry, and before the end of the day food arrived. At first I felt like a real bum to take handouts, but then i learned that there is as much to be learned from recieving as their is from giving. We always want one big answer to all our problems, well we do have it. God is that one big answer. Let him handle things, day by day. Just trust him, and breath and watch a little, you'll see he really does provide. I was two months ago seven month behind on my house payments. I got my tax money back, and paid it all up, had the check in the mail, the day before the bank called to evict me. I even got more back than i figured because IRRS said I made and error and they corrected it in my favor. It gave me just enough to catch up. (Now postal dating is something to thank God for). Guess what, behind again, and i know i'm doing my best, so I just keep hanging in there with a praise and a smile, because, I know he did it for me once, he'll do it again. I wish I could offer more, but I just advise you give yourself time. Be the hang in there kid, and pretty soon it will start to hurt less and less, because you will be changeing into a more trusting Christian.

Well that is his Holy City, It certinly won't go by unnoticed by God. It will be interesting to see if sends down fire from the sky or not. I think not. the fact is that he hates the sin but those sinners are his children. No matter what they did, there is still hope that they may find their way back to him. Homosexuals of today are the Samaritans of yesterday. If Jesus were here today he might tell that story by saying, a certain gay man by the name of ****** found the hebrew lying on the side of the road, and he paid for him to be cared for and get better, when no others would, so who then is your neighbor. He used the example of a Samaritan, because back then that group of people were dispised. He was trying to teach us, to be everyones neighbor, no matter what their sin is. If we go around hating them and makeing them miserable, how are they ever going to see that God loves them. I hope none of us indignent straight folk ever have to suffer those kind of hot tempered feelings over one of our sins. What if everyone started hating fat people. Greed is a sin too. Over 60% of Americans are obese. Is that a life style some of you can relate with? Sorry to take such a harsh road on this one, but this is something that really bothers me. I think that civilization is responsible for these people changeing their life styles. We turn a blind eye to so many sins that end up emotionally scarring and hurting people, and then we let those people raise kids, without even thinking about helping them. I'm not saying all Christians do, or all people do, but we are a part of this society and we will be held responisble for the things that happen durring our generations. I think most of them are just sufffering in some place that does not allow them to feel the way they should about natural relationships, and because they need love to, they look for it in other places. To them it feels like they have no choice, or that they were always that way, because those needs inside them to be accepted and loved are just as real as ours, but when they can't find a way to be happy the natural way, because they've been hurt, they look for other ways. Then we attack them for thier pain. Somewhere along the line, I beleive of them have a story of some sort, something that caused them to reject the natural way of doing things, because it's unpleasant,uncomfortable, unfulfilling to them. We should not be discusted with them, we should be praying for them to have a great healing that only God can give.

someone said that Jesus would have to die twice for our new sins? Of course not, He paid the wage for all of them all at the same time, but we did not ask him to cover the cost for all our sins all at the same time, how could we if we didn't yet know about them. Confession is made unto salvation. He only had to die once to pay the wage of sin for all men, but if we need to borrow another quarter, we have to go to Jesus and ask for it again.

I am reminded of the scripture in Revelation where Jesus threatens to spit the unworthy Chruches out of his mouth. I am guessing that it is possible to loose your standing with God. He says, the wages of sin are death, so if we sin again, and do not ask forgiveness, we have to pay the wage. Backsliding means starting to live in a worldly manner again. Some people stop going to church but don't really sin, or let their lives slip, but we are commanded not to forsake gathering together. I don't see how you can just do anything and act anyway, and still stay a christian. Why would he bother teaching us all those rules, parables, and stories, if it were okay to do anything we wanted once we said our magic salvation words. In the Lords Prayer jesus advises us that each time we pray we should ask forgiveness of our sins and forgive the ones who sinned against us, I think that is pretty clear and sound advice. Better safe than sorry.

I am reminded of the scripture in Revelation where Jesus threatens to spit the unworthy Chruches out of his mouth. I am guessing that it is possible to loose your standing with God. He says, the wages of sin are death, so if we sin again, and do not ask forgiveness, we have to pay the wage. Backsliding means starting to live in a worldly manner again. Some people stop going to church but don't really sin, or let their lives slip, but we are commanded not to forsake gathering together. I don't see how you can just do anything and act anyway, and still stay a christian. Why would he bother teaching us all those rules, parables, and stories, if it were okay to do anything we wanted once we said our magic salvation words. In the Lords Prayer jesus advises us that each time we pray we should ask forgiveness of our sins and forgive the ones who sinned against us, I think that is pretty clear and sound advice. Better safe than sorry.

Read the story of Job. This is the perfect example of spiritual warfare, we get to see what happens to people in the world, and hear the conversation bewteew God and the devil. The devil is trying to steal Jobs love for God. God knows that he cannot. Job get's put through the ringer, in health, in deaths of his family, and in antagonism of his wife and freinds, all because the devil was trying to prove something. The thing is, that God, does not really have to fight. He has already won and he knows he is the winner, the stronger, the better, The only ones the devil can prevail against is man, and he can't do that if we don't let him. Job had a lot of suffering, but the devil did not get what he was after, and when God shewed him away like a fly from attacking Job, all of the things he had before were given to him again. There is spiritual warfare, but remeber, he doesn't have the power to move against us unless we give it to him.

Nothing will porve God to you like having a real relationship with him. Just the way you would with a freind. If you ask your freind for a glass of water, don't you expect him to bring it to you. Ask God for your prayers and expect him to answer them,a nd then you will see how real he can be. I can tell you many stories, ofGod proving himself to me when I beleived in him. One time I had just gotten a new job and it was in an office. I went in my closet and saw I didn't have any appropriate clothes for work. Well God had given me the job, I never even applied for it, I just got a phone call and the office manager said someone told her I was a good worker I could have it if I wanted it. Well, then I said, God I have enough slacks, but I could use a few more blouses like this one, and I touched a specific blouse in my closet. Two days later, my sister who had bought me the blouse had bought a whole set of them for herself decided she never wore them and needed room in her closet and gave those blouses to me. They were the exact same blouse as mine, just different colors. That's exactly what I asked for, and that's exactly what I got. I never even told my sister i needed clothes to go to work. I was looking for a first home, and I asked God to give me a small house, just big enough for us so i didn't have to much to clean and take care of, it needed to be close to work or on the bus line, because i don't drive, and I asked for a cherry tree because I spent many hours as a kid eating cherries while sitting in a neighbors tree, and I wanted that for my kids to. The next day i went to church and was told of a retiring couple planning to move that was selling a house. I went to see it, it had a cherry tree in the back yard. There are more, so many more stories of God answering my prayer. Let me tell you that the job I had gotten, I had prayed for while i was still in college. I met a woman taking classes that worked for the college and I thought her secretarial phone answering job seemed pretty cushy to me, so I prayed a little prayer and said lord when i get done with school a job like that would make me happy. I still had a lot of semesters to go when I said the prayer, but when the phone call came two days after I graduated, I remembered asking God for it, and he did give it to me. He doesn't always say yes to my prayers, but he always makes me understand why not, and when he does say yes, his answer is as specific as my request. That is how you prove God, after you believe in him, not before.

Jesus himself, when called Good, said that there were none good, but the Father. If I kill a man today, and save a man tomorrow, will my act of saving one give the first back to his family. Our good deeds, do not cover our sins. It is only our faith in Jesus Christ as savior that will save us. The wages of sin is death, any and all sin requires a death in payment for it in the eyes of God. Jesus died for all our sins. He paid the debt we could never pay. We have to have faith in Jesus as our Savior. We are not saved by or for our good deeds. Our faith in Jesus Christ is what saves us and the only thing that can. Our good deeds are an act of obedience, to live in the example of Christ. They are how we show God we love him, by doing for the least of these, we do also to him. Because a good deed can never be the equal for a sin, God set up our plan of salvation based on FAITH instead. There was no other way he could forgive us. The price of sin was death. He provided the death for us, we only had to believe that it indeed was provided.