2bba

Sort of like the unruly kid in 3rd grade who starts throwing spitballs as soon as the teacher turns her back? As long as the teacher is watching, he's a perfect angel. Is this the level of righteousness that we have been reduced to? Haven't we been unruly children even as far back as the time of the Exodus from Egypt when they complained at every turn. Didn

Ditto where we were. :down: It's very sad that there are still people in places like that, burdened and in bondage, and not knowing it. I agree it is sad...and they are told that we are the ones who have fallen away.

But aren't we supposed to be evangelizing the lost, anyway? I might sound like a broken record here, but I'd like to see some more responses about this. Matthew 24:42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. 43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up. 44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh. I don't disagree with you, we should always be ready, and if we were perfect Christians we would be no matter when the time of His return.

Yes. They welcomed us in and as time went on it became more and more about what not to do, how to act, and we became very yoked and burdened. We both became involved in the ministry and studied the bible enough to know that while we learned much about the bible there, we learned enough to know it was time to leave.

Anti-Christ said that we're supposed to hate everyone and show hate. How do we do this since it is impossible to hate EVERYONE? we're always going to meet people we like. (For example: missionaries, preachers) Thought I would throw in a different perspective.

lol - Must have been a Freudian slip on my part.

Praise the Lord for their salvation. Conversion of the world through love (rather than hatred) is the only way we are going to achieve what Christ commissioned us to do. From this chart below I would say we have a long way to go, not just towards Muslims. After all we have the whole armor of God to help us in our quest to reach the lost and dying world. We should have compassion for those who have no compassion towards us. Pray. Christianity: 2 billion Islam: 1.3 billion Hinduism: 900 million Secular/Nonreligious/Agnostic/Atheist: 850 million Buddhism: 360 million Chinese traditional religion: 225 million primal-indigenous: 150 million African Traditional & Diasporic: 95 million Sikhism: 23 million Juche: 19 million Spiritism: 14 million Judaism: 14 million Baha'i: 6 million Jainism: 4 million Shinto: 4 million Cao Dai: 3 million Tenrikyo: 2.4 million Neo-Paganism: 1 million Unitarian-Universalism: 800 thousand Rastafarianism: 700 thousand Scientology: 600 thousand Zoroastrianism: 150 thousand

My wife requested that I post this. She wants to know why it is that Deborah could be a judge, or ruler of Israel, yet there are verses such as the one that follows that mentions "women keep silence in the churches." So what exactly should the roll of women be in the church. Judges 4:4 And Deborah, a prophetess, the wife of Lapidoth, she judged Israel at that time. 1 Corinthians 14:34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.

delete

Years ago I went to a new worker orientation class for a large company that was required for new employees, before you even started your job. The number one point of the four hour orientation was this: Don

Adstar It is ironic that those who need to know consider it a joke or fable. But as a Christian I don't worry about the Lake of Fire for myself, but it motivates me to think of the ones who do think it is a joke or fable. Fire and Brimstone preaching kept my step-dad out of church all of his adult life. It was difficult for him to even go in one for a wedding or funeral. He was not the stereotypical step-father but a kind, joyful, and tender hearted man. I have no doubt that he was saved, but he ONLY heard that kind of preaching in the very small town where he was raised, and was forced to go to church while at home to the same preaching every Sunday. On the other hand I like to hear it once in awhile myself. I think a preacher should preach and teach the whole bible, and the message should usually center on salvation through Christ.

Hello 2bba The whole point of my post was to simply say that it does not matter what Hell is or its perminance or tempory nature or weather it is hot or dark. The point is the Lake Of Fire is real and those that are cast into it will be tormented forever and ever.

The church that we left would not allow a church web page. So they sure were not going to allow online church of any kind. They didn't want people really going on the Internet at all for any reason. After we had been going there awhile they encouraged me to even leave a bible study at work. I look back on that bible study during lunch as one of the best times I ever had to fellowship with other believers. We would study, talk, and then sing a bunch of songs. It was really refreshing. In fact hearing them sing while walking by the door over a year period got me thinking about Christ again. I actual started going to the bible study before going to church. So Christians were having an effect on others at work. I guess that is one thing about church, you need a place where the lost can go, they might not know anything about the Internet.

I think we're both - or all, body, mind (soul?) and spirit. I'd much prefer to find a church home than just visit aruond like we're doing now, but it hasn't happened yet. It's been almost if not, a year and a half since we left that last church. Still technically members (unless they've booted us), but haven't joined anywhere else. I think fellowshipping on the internet boards is fine, but there's nothing quite like being in a good church, joining in, helping out, etc. The preaching is the part I like best, and is the part we are having the most problems with on the churches we've visited. You would not believe how many churches there are in this small town, and we haven't found one yet where we've felt led to join. Last night, we went to eat at a little place here that is obviously ran by Christians. They had old time Christian songs playing in the background. Just hearing some of those songs made me have such a longing in my heart to find a church home. I can't explain it. The kind I grew up in, where people all treated each other with brotherly love, where the preacher preached and didn't throw in his opinion and stories all the time. Where they had their focus on Christ and not who wore what, who did what, who didn't do what, and who held what office, and who was "better" than who, and all that mess. It turns my stomach. We used to go to baptisms in little lakes and ponds. It was an old fashioned church (guess I'm telling my age a little here). I was baptized inside, but they still had them outdoors also. All day long "singings" on certain Sundays. After the morning service, we'd set up tables outside, eat together, go back inside and have singing and sometimes testimony, the whole rest of the afternoon. It was great! Brush arbor revivals or "tent meetings", genuine concern for one another. I miss that so much. Those people were the same regardless of where you met them, or what day of the week it was. That's how I grew up, and I'm afraid those days are just about gone now. It's really sad. There was a little man who we used to pick up and give a ride to church. He carried two old worn out table spoons in his pocket. He played them. Have you ever heard anyone play the spoons? I loved that man, even when I was a child and have often wondered what happened to him and where he went to after leaving there. A little sweet old lady played the piano. Her name was Mrs. Palmer. She finally had to stop, don't know if it was arthritis or what, then a man started playing it for us. He didn't know music, but played by ear, and it sounded beautiful to me. Nothing was set or scheduled. If someone felt led to sing a special song, they did. If the preacher planned on one sermon, and felt led to change it at the last second, he did. I just miss those days, and those churches so much that it hurts. We've been looking for a church for 3 1/2 years, I know how you feel. I knew a man who could play spoons, he went by the name Pop. Also played with a little dancing wooden puppet, I think he held it over a little wooden contraption between his legs. Welcome to the 21st Century.

The question comes to mind from these posts. Are we our bodies or our minds? I know there is nothing like a big hug, but emoticons convey the same thought. Is it not really the thought that counts? When you listen to a message at a brick and mortar church what do you do? You sit and stare at the pastor or take notes, while sometimes trying to ignore what is going on behind you, beside you, or in front of you. Of course then there is the question of Sunday school that as adults with an adult son does not effect us

Adstar - I had forgotten about the Lake of Fire. This changes the whole thread then. Is the Lake of Fire mentioned anywhere else in scripture, by any other description. I looked briefly and could not find any other description. Wow.

cymba22 - My last post should show you that there are other times other than parable or prophecy then that the Bible is not literal. pits of darkness furnace lake that burns with fire and sulfur Just in these examples there are 3 descriptions of the same thing, and you will be able to find more descriptions of Hell in the Bible. A pit is not a furnace and a furnace and a pit is not a lake of fire and sulfur.

kittyjo - Thank you for the great list of scripture. I am going to go through each one so that everyone can see what I am trying to get at. The "unquenchable fire" could be exactly that, or it could be a place of indescribable loneliness. Because it is a persons bodiless soul that is in a place set apart from God. The Bible says that Judas went to his "own place". What exactly is "pits of darkness"? Is it a literal pit that is dark or is it darkness because Christ casts no light there? Are they really go to put them into an actual "furnace and burn them"? You see in the previous example it said a dark pit. So could it be figurative, symbolic? Since a soul is immortal, they have to be put away from God

I will have to get into this post-res, post-trib, pre-wrath rapture. Maybe Christ will have a sense-of-humor and will pre-trib the ones who believe that, and post-trib the ones who believe that.

Well, let's suppose that you were convinced that the Rapture was coming tomorrow. What would you do differently, that every Christian in the world is not supposed to already be doing? Actually I would be trying to find a way to get on Cable International news and let the world know! So I would do more than now, but of course that is an extreme example. I suppose you were thinking that I would say nothing different, but I am guilty of not doing enough, and I know it. I have always worked best under pressure with due dates in the near term. I think Christ realizes that or it wouldn't say all over the pages of the Bible that He is coming soon.

I believe this is an important topic because a wrong concept of Hell could prompt some to prefer Hell over submission to Christ. Christians may not have a burden for souls if they feel that it really does not exist, or that it is an easy life there. I have heard over the years comments from non-believers, or people that just plan reject Jesus, that suggest Hell is a party place where they will have fun with all their other sinful buddies for eternity. At the other extreme I have heard the fire and brimstone preaching that the whole thing is totally literal, and the soul anguishes in a constant black fire, in a dark depth, and they see no one at all but themselves, while they are constantly falling forever - Sort of sounds like what astronomers call a black hole. What do you think? Can you back it up with Scripture?

There is no heavy shepherding at our Church...there are no lists of rules or pieces of paper to sign as far as I am aware...the criteria for joining the Church is that you are saved and love the L-rd and want to be with G-ds people. Why L-rd and G-d?

No, not upset at all. I just think a lot of people think about it far too much, and it distracts from their plain everyday discipleship. Either you're saved, or you're not. On the day of reckoning, knowing the "right" answer to this question isn't going to make a bit of difference. Hmmm. But if a person thought it was way off in the future they might not feel burdened towards other lost souls.

But your relationship with your heavenly father was not fine. Do you see what you have subconsciously implied? If you were an atheist then you would have said the following: At that time, my relationship with my father was absolutely fine You have already stated that you are an atheist, so there would be no logical reason to differentiate between a worldly and heavenly father. My parents split up when I was 9 years old. Then they promptly distanced themselves by 1000 miles. I saw him again 2 years later after he had married his mistress. After that I would see him for a couple of weeks most summers. Especially the first two years apart from him was a very sad and harsh time for me. I used to silently cry myself to sleep at night praying that they would get back together. Later after realizing it just wasn

TRZ - Thank you for your kind words. Things are getting better all the time, and I realize now that