JB Horn

None of them. Are you without sin? No you are not. Do you go to heaven? Yes you do. Why? Because you fall under the Grace of Jesus Christ. Do these hypothetical tribesmen fall under the Grace of Christ? No. Have they had the oppurtunity to fall under that Grace? No they haven't. So do they go to hell? I certainly hope not. That would make me a bit suspicious of God's mercy (and logic). There, I just saved us from having a long conversation by stating the entire thing in one post. Unfortunately for your point of view, Jesus said "NO MAN cometh to the father but by me." The gospel message is quite clearly written in the Stars. It was decoded by the ancients long before Jesus came. Why do you think the "wise men" (astrologers) sought Him? They sought him because they were told to. By Herod. Read it... once in a while 1 After Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judea in the days of King Herod, wise men from the east arrived unexpectedly in Jerusalem, 2 saying, "Where is He who has been born King of the Jews? For we saw His star in the east and have come to worship Him." 3 When King Herod heard this, he was deeply disturbed, and all Jerusalem with him. 4 So he assembled all the chief priests and scribes of the people and asked them where the Messiah would be born. 5 "In Bethlehem of Judea," they told him, "because this is what was written through the prophet: 6 And you, Bethlehem, in the land of Judah, are by no means least among the leaders of Judah: because out of you will come a Leader who will shepherd My people Israel. " 7 Then Herod secretly summoned the wise men and learned from them the time when the star appeared. 8 He sent them to Bethlehem and said, "Go and search carefully for the child. When you find Him, report back to me so that I too can go and worship Him." It seems to me they were seeking Him before they ever met Herod. But hey you're the expert on the Bible not me. JB

82nd 1/505 & 1/509 1965-1968

1 Blow the trumpet in Zion; sound the alarm on my holy hill. Let all who live in the land tremble, for the day of the LORD is coming. It is close at hand- 2 a day of darkness and gloom, a day of clouds and blackness. Like dawn spreading across the mountains a large and mighty army comes, such as never was of old nor ever will be in ages to come. 3 Before them fire devours, behind them a flame blazes. Before them the land is like the garden of Eden, behind them, a desert waste

Christ said that He spoke in parables because there was some that He did not want them understand what He was saying. The Jews thought that the Messiah was coming save their earthly kingdom, He did not. He came to offer eternal life. He taught that we should give away our earthly treasures and follow Him. We are also told that being a Christian will not be an easy life, and we will be persecuted for our faith in Him. The path to salvation is a narrow one, the Bible tells us. JB http://inhisword.net

God is referred to as Lord of Hosts over 200 times in the Bible. How many times did He command battles? JB

Christian Hedonism? Thoughtful this sounds like Christian Hedonism to me. Am I correct? JB

I don't know about Jade's post but mine was from Rom 9 14

None of them. Are you without sin? No you are not. Do you go to heaven? Yes you do. Why? Because you fall under the Grace of Jesus Christ. Do these hypothetical tribesmen fall under the Grace of Christ? No. Have they had the oppurtunity to fall under that Grace? No they haven't. So do they go to hell? I certainly hope not. That would make me a bit suspicious of God's mercy (and logic). There, I just saved us from having a long conversation by stating the entire thing in one post. Are you saying that God is unjust if He choose to send sinners to hell? Is this not His sovereign right? Is not grace and forgiveness His to give? Who makes the choice of the circumstances of where these hypothetical tribesmen were born? JB Rom 9:14 What should we say then? Is there injustice with God? Absolutely not! 15 For He tells Moses: I will show mercy to whom I show mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion. 16 So then it does not depend on human will or effort, but on God who shows mercy.

Tell me how many of the remote tribe on that island off of Africa are without sin? JB

no, jb, it wasn't for you. it was apparently a misunderstanding of something bib said. but in any case, for the reasons i just stated above, i'm leaving this thread, and probably the whole board, for a few days. God bless you LadyC, I didn't mean to stress you out but I am very defensive about my beliefs. If you say they are not biblical and I did not respond that would be a tacit admission that you were correct, and 'I believe' you are not. LadyC it does not matter how we believe we came to our faith, it only matters that we are all here. Good Night JB

John 6:44&65 are two of my favorite verses. Very Calvin 65 He said, "This is why I told you that no one can come to Me unless it is granted to him by the Father." HCSB If God's will is that every one be saved then all will be saved "according to the purpose of the One who works out everything in agreement with the decision of His will," Eph 1:9

please quote what portion of what i said even so much as implied that. for the life of me, i really can't figure out where you're getting your ideas from, because it doesn't even resemble what i've said. Is it not by faith you come to salvation? Can you accept the gift of eternal life without faith? Christ says all those who believe in Him shall have eternal life. If I miss-understood and you did not come by that faith "ALONE" I apologies. But I would be interested in knowing how you can make that choice without first having the faith to do so. Love JB http://inhisword.net Faith alone justifies, but what exactly is you're faith in? If you hear the word of God and understand it, then you should receive this. You have the choose this day whom you will serve, whether be the strange gods you worshipped in Egypt or the God of Israel. Dueternomy 32 :15 (TRC 1537 at faithofgod.net)

So why did He choose you? John 3:16 who so ever (what?) I'm glad the the Holy Spirit chose you LadyC God bless you. JB

For it is written.

please quote what portion of what i said even so much as implied that. for the life of me, i really can't figure out where you're getting your ideas from, because it doesn't even resemble what i've said. Is it not by faith you come to salvation? Can you accept the gift of eternal life without faith? Christ says all those who believe in Him shall have eternal life. If I miss-understood and you did not come by that faith "ALONE" I apologies. But I would be interested in knowing how you can make that choice without first having the faith to do so. Love JB http://inhisword.net

I never said SELF righteousness will get us to heaven. I said that you can not choose to be righteous or someone would done so. If you believe that you came to your faith on your own then you earned your way to heaven, good for you. I did not, my faith was given to me. Paul speaks much of election and at looking on how he came by his faith in Christ you can see why. JB http://inhisword.net

Well then if you are right and man can choose to be righteous without the help of God then there is really no need for Christ blood is there? If man can choose to be righteous then somewhere out there there must be a man that has never sinned. Of all the people in the world truly one would chose to be righteous. JB i'm not sure how you mistook what i was saying, but i absolutely disagree. a man can not be righteous without the grace of God, the gift of salvation that He made possible through the shed blood of His son. but Jesus shed His blood for EVERYONE. it is a gift that is freely given to every man, woman or child who ACCEPTS the gift. it has nothing to do with self-righteousness, it has everything to do with acceptance. Oh but it does have to do with being self-righteous. When man is left on his own to choose between righteousness and evil he eats from the forbidden fruit. Even after salvation we still goes back and sins. All men have the same sinful nature yet some will receive the grace of God and some will not. And that is why I brought up the fact that God even has a favorite people can you explain to me why He favored the Jews over others. No God is sovereign and does not have to explain His nature to us. And God does not choose those who are to be condemned they made that choice out of their free will, and that is biblical. Man has free will but left to his own he goes back to the forbidden fruit. God proves this to us Christians over and over when He lets us go astray and even after receiving His grace we choose to return to sin. If you really believe that you came by your faith on your own then you must believe that you can loose your faith, and that becomes a problem because if you believe you can loose your faith then you don't really have faith do you. JB

Well then if you are right and man can choose to be righteous without the help of God then there is really no need for Christ blood is there? If man can choose to be righteous then somewhere out there there must be a man that has never sinned. Of all the people in the world truly one would chose to be righteous. JB

Is it not true that those that are not of the elect do not want to be? And speaking of fair, is it fair that God chose one people, Jews, to favor over others? Paul heard your question 2100 years ago. Roms 9:13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated. 14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid. 15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. the jews may be God's chosen people, but He did not make the gift of salvation exclusive to them. it is available for ANY who will accept Christ. and not all jews will enter heaven, because many of them will never accept Christ. True but that is not the question. God chose the Jews all through the OT and made His covenant with them and when He Christ returns it will not be to Kansas. Matthew 15:21-28 21 Leaving that place, Jesus withdrew to the region of Tyre and Sidon. 22 A Canaanite woman from that vicinity came to him, crying out, "Lord, Son of David, have mercy on me! My daughter is suffering terribly from demon-possession." 23 Jesus did not answer a word. So his disciples came to him and urged him, "Send her away, for she keeps crying out after us." 24 He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel." 25 The woman came and knelt before him. "Lord, help me!" she said. 26 He replied, "It is not right to take the children's bread and toss it to their dogs." 27 "Yes, Lord," she said, "but even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their masters' table." 28 Then Jesus answered, "Woman, you have great faith! Your request is granted." And her daughter was healed from that very hour. I am a gentile and am happy to take the crumbs that falls to the floor. He has given me a chance to be part of His covenent with the Jews. IHS JB

Is it not true that those that are not of the elect do not want to be? And speaking of fair, is it fair that God chose one people, Jews, to favor over others? Paul heard your question 2100 years ago. Roms 9:13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated. 14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid. 15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

Mark 2:27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath: Luke 6:5 And he said unto them, The Son of man is lord of the sabbath. Acts 20:7 And upon the first day of the week, when we were gathered together to break bread, Paul discoursed with them, intending to depart on the morrow; and prolonged his speech until midnight. John 20:19 On the evening of that first day of the week, when the disciples were together, with the doors locked for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood among them and said, "Peace be with you!" 20:26 A week later his disciples were in the house again, and Thomas was with them. Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, "Peace be with you!" 1 Corinthians 16:2 On the first day of every week, each one of you should set aside a sum of money in keeping with his income, saving it up, so that when I come no collections will have to be made. They would have been put to death if they met on the last day of the week. JB

Good morning menegroth, A hint to help you with your study. Judges 2:1 The Angel of the Lord went up from Gilgal to Bochim and said, "I brought you out of Egypt and led you into the land I had promised to your fathers. I also said: I will never break My covenant with you. 2 You are not to make a covenant with the people who are living in this land, and you are to tear down their altars. But you have not obeyed Me. What is this you have done? 3 Therefore, I now say: I will not drive out these people before you. They will be thorns in your sides, and their gods will be a trap to you." JB

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