PBob

FORGIVE ME FOR THE LENGTH OF THIS POST 1. The point I am trying to make is I do not believe that I or anyone else is expected by the Lord to condemn anyone or to convict them of their sin. that is the ministry of the Holy Spirit (PRAISE GOD) We may disagree - that's OK. Is it possible that until they are convicted by the HS they don't even know they are in sin....? 2. Forgive me for not responding - not intentional - anyway as soon as I speak with them (as the HS leads) i either give them a tract like the 4 Spiritual Laws or one I prepared for the 2nd Annual Day to Be Gay" held in Sullivan County NY called "What if?" (see below) I speak of Jesus and His death upon the cross to take upon Himself the penalty for our sins and encourage them to consider all this in terms of the three great truths below in my signature. I explain that we are saved by grace not works. I almost always say, "One of the greatest gifts that I believe we have been given by our Creator is free will - we can choose - the choice is yours. What if the Bible is true? and I give them a Bible and tell them to read the gospel of John. I don't even get into Leviticus, etc. - they already know it is there (usually). I do say that homosexuality is considered an abomination and a sin by God in the Bible - it's their choice to believe or not." 3. i have not led any to Christ personally but have had several ask me to pray for them - some have come to a Bible study and others just consider me a royal pain in the neck. I have good relationship with others - which in my opinion allows for additional witness - Some plant, some weed and some harvest... What I do do however, is contiune to pray for them and take every opportunity given to me to show the love of Christ - I NEVER (yelling) condone their sin or excuse it. I hope this helps.. See the tract I wrote below specifically for The Annual Day to be Gay - a few years ago. This in posted on my website. "Originally written as a tract and handed out at the 2nd Annual Day To Be Gay held at the Delaware Valley Youth Center in Callicoon, NY sponsored by Out Load and Queer a radio program on Public Radio Station "WJFF" in Jeffersonville, NY. A letter to the editor published in the Sullivan County Democrat may also be found on this page. Permission is granted to reprint and publish this tract by the author. Please acknowledge that you have used the tract by sending an e-mail to ... What if? Written by: Pastor PBob Ph.D. Who alone is responsible for the contents Please don

Baptism is an outward sign of our covenant with the Lord. Demonstrating to the world and the Body of Christ our commitment. Some who have accepted Christ as adults wonder if the baptism they received as infants fulfills the New Testament mandate of water baptism (1 Peter 3:21). I believe baptism in water is to follow salvation (acceptance of Christ and His forgiveness of our sins) as demonstrated in the New Testament. For this reason I urge all new believers to follow the biblical pattern of water baptism in obedience to Christ. We may backslide but we return when we repent and are forgiven. Baptism is not a requirement of salvation.... I renewed my marriage vows a couple of times - perhaps for some being baptized again may be a time or symbol of recommittment. Not necessary but should not cause another division within the body of Christ - we are under grace not the law - When my wife and I went to Israel we both chose to get "rebaptized in the Jordan"... Nuf Sed

You are so right, and I see wisdom in it. First - floatingaxe I love your logo <

You are so right, and I see wisdom in it. WHEN I FIRST BECAME A PASTOR 8 YEARS AGO - I HAVE A NEW MINISTRY NOW - THE FIRST QUESTION I WAS ASKED WAS "PASTOR SHARE YOUR VISION FOR "OUR" CHURCH." MY RESPONSE WAS AND STILL IS "TO TRAIN, EQUIP AND RELEASE THE SAINTS, THAT'S YOU, FOR THE WORK OF THE MINISTRY (GREAT COMMISSION - WITH 1 CORINTHIANS 13) AND TO SEEK THE LORD THAT OUR ASSEMBLY WOULD FUNCTION IN SUCH A WAY THAT THE WORLD WOULD LOOK IN AND SAY - "SEE HOW THEY LOVE ONE ANOTHER!! THAT OUR LITTLE PART OF THE BODY WOULD FIT IN WITH THE OTHER PARTS OF THE BODY RIGHTLY..."" IT CERTAINLY IS NOT NUMBERS, MONEY, BIGGER BUILDINGS,FELT NEEDS, PROGRAMS, ETC... ITS ALL ABOUT BEING HIS HIS HIS HIS AMBASSADORS. PLEASE UNDERSTAND I AM NOT ANGRY... BUT SEEKING TO BE HIS SERVANT AND WAKE-UP HIS PEOPLE.. FOR HIS GLORY... I WILL GET ON MY SOAP BOX BUT I TRY TO SEEK HIS WILL... FORGIVE ME IF ANYONE IS OFFENDED BY THIS APPROACH (EZEKIEL 33) REBUKE ME IN THE LORD IF NECESSARY. NUF SED

(OPINION) BIG BROTHER STRIKES AGAIN!! Please read carefully get the facts and make your wishes known. This is apparently an attempt to stop each of us from being able to get the facts and make reasonable choices based on our own principles and values. PBob [url=http://www.afa.net/] Review of Senate Bill 1 (Section 220) The grassroots lobbying section of U.S. Senate Bill 1 (Section 220) contains onerous reporting requirements (on a quarterly basis), and civil fines of up to $100,000 for failing to comply. The effect by AFA and other grassroots groups to get you information on any bill before Congress will be profound. Under Senate Bill 1, AFA would have to report the issues, employees, contractors and dollars spent in what is called "paid efforts to stimulate grassroots lobbying" (that phrase is not defined). This reporting requirement is triggered by two actions: (1) a lobbying "contact"

a "christian" actually reading the whole bible...? hmmm... now there's a novel aproach. whodathunkit? IT'S GREAT FOR EACH OF US TO HAVE OUR OWN OPINIONS - BELIEVE ME I AM GUILTY! HOWEVER, IF THE BIBLE IS TRUELY THE REVELATION OF GOD TO MAN PERHAPS WE SHOULD GET SERIOUS ABOUT APPLYING ITS PRINCIPLES. I THINK THIS CAN ONLY REALLY HAPPEN WHEN WE CAN SAY WITH PAUL,"I NO LONGER LIVE BUT CHRIST LIVES IN ME." I HAD PASTOR OF A CHURCH ONCE SAY TO ME, "THE BIBLE IS NOT THE WORD OF GOD - IT CONTAINS THE WORD OF GOD." I PUSHED A BIBLE ACROSS THE TABLE TO HIM AND SAID, "YOU TELL ME WHICH ARE GOD'S WORDS AND WHICH ARE NOT - I DON'T THINK YOU CAN. EITHER YOU BELIEVE THE BIBLE IN ITS ENTIRETY OR PERHAPS YOU SHOULD STOP BEING A PASTOR." NOT NICE - I GUESS BUT "WHAT IF THE BIBLE IS IN FACT (I BELIEVE IT IS) THE INSPIRED, AUTHORITATIVE, INFALLIBLE WORD OF GOD - THE REVELATION OF GOD TO MAN THAT WE MIGHT PLEASE HIM?????

NOW WHY DID I COME IN HERE? WAS I GOING UP THE STAIRS OR DOWN?

CHOSE THIS DAY WHOM YOU WILL SERVE... AS FOLLOWERS OF CHRIST WE MUST CONTINUE TO BE LIGHT AND SALT WITH 1 CORINTHIANS 13 SURROUNDING OUR EFFORTS. CHANCES ARE THE AMOUNT OF PERSECUTION WE RECIEVE WILL BE IN DIRECT PROPORTION TO OUR EFFORTS TO DO WHAT THE LORD WOULD HAVE US DO. WHEN A GOVERNMENT MAKES LAWS CONTRARY TO THE LAW OF GOD - WE HAVE ONLY ONE CHOICE ..GOD. WHEN MAN/GOVERNMENTS DECIDE THAT THERE IS NO GOD THEN THE LAWS MADE BY THE GOVERNMENT USUALLY END UP BEING LAWS WHICH ALLOW MEN TO DO WHAT IS "RIGHT IN THEIR OWN EYES". I WOULD LIKE TO SAY WE AS FOLLOWERS OF CHRIST WILL WIN BUT THE BIBLE DESCRIBES WHAT WE CAN EXPECT IN THE LAST DAYS - IT REACHES A POINT OF SUCH PERVERSION THAT GOD HIMSELF BRINGS HIS JUDEMENT DOWN UPON (SODOM AND GAMORREAH sp?)THE WORLD. java script:add_smilie("","smid_125") king.gif THE KING WINS. DOES THE BATTLE BELONG TO THE LORD.? OR TO ME? EVEN NOW I WANT TO GO OUT AND PROTEST BUT AM BEGINNING TO THINK THAT THE MORE I PROTEST THE MORE THE HOMOSEXUALS PROTEST THE MORE THE PROCHOICE PEOPLE PROTEST ETC AND EVENTUALLY IF WE CONTINUE WE END UP BURNING ABORTION CLINICS AND BASHING GAYS.... OK MAYBE NOT THAT BAD BUT THE GAP GETS WIDER. I CERTAINLY DON'T HAVE THE ANSWER BUT FEEL THAT THE LORD WOULD HAVE ME WITNESS ONE ON ONE - WHO KNOWS WHAT MIGHT HAPPEN IF I AM USED OF THE HOLY SPIRIT TO HARVEST JUST ONE SOUL....? THERE WAS A TIME IN MY LIFE WHEN I PROTESTED (AS A CHRISTIAN java script:add_smilie("","smid_15") sad.gif) IN FRONT OF AN ABORTION CLINIC. I WOULD CARRY SIGNS SAYING ABORTION WAS MURDER - LIE DOWN ON THE SIDEWALK - END UP IN JAIL AND BE RELEASED AFTER I GAVE MY NAME. ONE DAY AS I WAS PROTESTING A FRIEND ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE STREET - PROCHOICE - CAME ACROSS AND SAID TO ME SOMETHING LIKE, "BOB YOU SEE THAT YOUNG LADY OVER THERE - HER FATHER MOLESTED HER - SHE IS NOW PREGNANT - NO PLACE TO LIVE AND IN GREAT EMOTIONAL PAIN - WHY DON'T YOU AND THESE OTHER ##@@%% (BAD WORD) DO SOMETHING TO HELP HER. I WENT HOME AND A SHORT TIME LATER MYSELF MY WIFE AND SOME OTHERS FROM OUR CHURCH AND AT LEAST ONE OTHER CHURCH FOUNDED A CRISIS PREGNANCY CENTER WHICH CONTINUES TODAY PROVIDING MEDICAL CARE, COUNSEL, FINDING HOMES FOR THESE GIRLS TO LIVE IN, ADOPTION HELP, BABY CLOTHES, ETC. QUITE A FEW BABIES ENTERED THE WORLD THAT WOULD NOT HAVE. THE LORD BLESSED US SO MUCH IN THIS THAT WE OBTAINED OFFICES RIGHT NEXT DOOR TO PLANNED PARENTHOOD. UNFORTUNATELY THERE ARE MILLIONS OF ABORTIONS THAT CONTINUE TO GO ON TODAY - AS WE ALL KNOW IT IS LEGAL!!!! APPROVED BY THE GOVERNMENT AS IS HOMOSEXUALITY AND SODOMY AND WHO KNOWS WHAT IS NEXRT- EUTHANASIA, POLYGAMY... BROTHERS AND SISTERS IS IT POSSIBLE IN MANY CASES (NOT ALL) THAT WHAT WE DO SPEAKS SO LOUDLY THE WORLD CANNOT HEAR A WORD WE ARE SAYING? NEF SED

YES YES YES - OBVIOUSLY SOME SINS CAUSE MORE HARM THAN OTHERS BUT THEY ALL LEAD TO THE SAME PLACE WITHOUT REPENTANCE... DOES GOD FORGIVE ALL OF THEM EQUALLY IF ONE REPENTS AND ASKS FOR FORGIVENESS? i THINK - YES. WE NEED TO BE COGNIZANT OF THIS. DO WE AS CHRISTIANS AND AS A SOCIETY NEED TO REACT DIFFERENTLY TO MURDER VS HATE - YES YES BUT JESUS SAID IF YOU HATE (SOMETHING LIKE THIS) YOU HAVE MURDERED. THE PROBLEM LIES IN HOW SHOULD WE RESPOND BOTH AS AN INDIVIDAUL OR AS A SOCIETY. DEATH PENALTY; 10 YEARS TO LIFE --- I SUGGEST WE SEEK THE LORD CAREFULLY ON THIS ONE. I KNOW PEOPLE WHO WOULD CONDEMN YOU ETERNALLY FOR DIVORCE - OTHERS DON'T WANT THE DEATH PENALTY... GREAT - WE ARE FREE TO CHOOSE AND EXPRESS OUR THOUGHTS BUT THE FINAL FINALFINAL JUDGE IS THE LORDS. I SUGGEST WE MOVE CAREFULLY PASSING OUR JUDGEMENT; SEEK THE HOLY SPIRIT AND DO WHAT HE LEADS US TO DO RATHER THAN ASSUMING OUR GREAT INTELLIGENCE IS GREATER THAN HIS. IS IT VENIAL OF MORTAL BIG OR SMALL HARMFUL OR NOT ....GOOD QUESTIONS BOTTOM LINE LET US AS HIS FOLLOWERS BE LIGHT AND SALT AND BRING LOVE (AND REPROOF - MY PASTOR JUST CAME IN AND SUGGESTED THIS - i AGEE )RATHER THAN CONDEMNATION TO THOSE IN SIN... NUF SED

I have a question for you PBob. These two homosexual friends you speak of, are they actually engaging in sex with members of the same sex, or are they just attracted to the same sex? If they are not acting on their feelings, then I can see your point. If they are actively committing such sinful acts, then why should anyone start a house church where they "feel safe?" The church is for Christians, not sinners. We have evangelists to go outside the body and bring sinners to a place of repentance, and then and only then are they joined to the church. That would be the case not only with fornication, but for any sin. I realize that all churches have members that do things wrong like gossip, for instance, but we are talking about people doing things they know are wrong, and wanting to hold onto it. Even in the case of a gossip, they need to be rebuked, and disciplined if necessary. We don't need to create churches where backbiters, liars, adulterers, etc. feel safe. If I have misunderstood you, feel free to correct me. I WILL POST MORE LATER BUT FOR NOW HERE IS MY THINKING. THEY HAVE LIVED TOGETHER FOR A NUMBER OF YEARS AND CONTINUE TO DO SO. WE ARE TALKING ABOUT PEOPLE WHO DO NOT KNOW JESUS, HAVE BEEN PREVIOUSLY HURT BY "CHRISTIANS" AND I HAVE SPENT 5 YEARS LIVING MY LIFE IN THE SAME TOWN AS THEM - PRAISE GOD WE NOW ARE REACHING A POINT WHERE THEY TRUST OUR RELATIONSHIP ENOUGH TO ASK FOR PRAYER, TO ASK QUESTIONS, AND TO "MAYBE" GET INVOLVED IN A SAFE PLACE (FOR THEM) WHERE THEY WILL NOT BE IMMEDIATELY CONDEMNED AND RIDICULED BUT WILL BE ABLE TO FREELY AND WITHOUT FEAR EXPRESS THEIR IDEAS AS WE STUDY THE BIBLE AND WHAT THE WORD SAYS. WILL WE START WITH LEVITICUS - PERHAPS NOT - MOST LIKELY THE GOSPEL OF JOHN. THAT MIGHT BE CALLED A HOUSE CHURCH OR JUST A MEETING PLACE - I AM NOT HUNG UP ON THE WORD CHURCH - I HOPE WE AGREE THAT "CHURCH" IS A BODY OF BELIEVERS WHICH MAY IN FACT HAVE SOME WHO ARE SEEKING AND NOT AS MATURE AS THOSE WHO HAVE BEEN THERE FOR YEARS. I GUESS THE USE OF THE WORD CHURCH MAY BE OUT OF ORDER BUT BECAUSE OF EXPERIENCES I HAVE HAD AS A PASTOR AND LAY PERSON (PASTOR FOR 8 YEARS NOW RETIRED - PRIOR 28 YEARS IN INDUSTRY) AND WHAT I HAVE SEEN HAPPEN IN "CHURCHES" TO SINNERS WHO ARE LOOKING/SEEKING FOR THE LORD I DESIRE TO MINISTER TO SOME IN MY HOME WHICH WILL INCLUDE OTHER BORN AGAIN SPIRIT FILLED CHRISTIANS. ARE WE WRONG - I DON'T THINK SO. PERHAPS YOU ARE NOT CALLED TO THIS BUT WHEN A RELATIONSHIP IS ESTABLISHED AND THE OPPORTUNITY COMES TO FINALLY GET DOWN TO REALLY BEING ABLE TO BE A WITNESS - THERE ARE SOME OF US WHO KNOW WE ARE CALLED TO DO SO. I AM NOT ALONE IN THIS. MY WIFE AND I STARTED A "DIVORCE CARE" GROUP SOME YEARS AGO BECAUSE SOME WHO WERE DIVORCED OR IN THE PROCESS WHO WERE COMING TO THE CHURCH WERE BEING REJECTED IN THE "CHURCH" - IT WAS SO PAINFUL FOR US TO SEE HOW UNLOVING "CHRISTIANS" CAN BE WHEN SOMEONE DOES NOT MEET THEIR CODE OF CONDUCT. I REMEMBER AS A PASTOR SAYING, "IF SOMEONE COMES IN HERE (THE CHURCH BUILDING) WITH SPIKED HAIR, A MINI SKIRT UP TO THEIR NECK AND RINGS IN THEIR NOSE , EARS, EYES AND NAVEL - I WILL PERSONALLY THROW OUT THE FIRST PERSON WHO OFFENDS THEM - WHY BECAUSE WE HAVE NO IDEA WHY THEY SHOWED UP OR WHAT HAS HAPPENED IN THEIR LIFE. IT IS VERY POSSIBLE THAT THEY ARE SEEKING THE TRUTH BECAUSE OF THEIR PAIN. THE HOLY SPIRIT MAY BE CONVICTING THEM OF SIN IN TERMS OF DRUGS BUT WE GET ALL EXCITED ABOUT HOW THEY LOOK. OF COURSE IF THEY ARE UNTEACHABLE, THERE TO CAUSE CONFUSION OR TO DEBATE THEY WOULD BE ASKED TO LEAVE. BUT IF THEY LISTEN AND SHOW INTEREST AND CONTINUE TO ATTEND RESPECTFULLY PERHAPS BEING THERE AND SEEING THE LOVE OF CHRIST MAY BE WHAT IS NEEDED. FURTHERMORE I WOULD TAKE THIS OPPORTUNITY TO REACH OUT TO THEM BY VISITING THEIR HOME AND ESPTABLISHING A RELATIONSHIP. THEY WOULD KNOW FROM THE BEGINNING THAT I AND OUR CHURCH DO NOT CONDONE HOMOSEXUALITY AND THAT THE WORD OF GOD CALLS IT AN ABOMINATION. BUT PERHAPS AT THIS STAGE - THEY REALLY DO NOT REALLY KNOW CHRIST NOR DO THEY HAVE CONVICTION OF THE BIBLE BEING THE INSPIRED, INFALLIBLE, AUTHORITATIVE WORK OF GOD. IF I AM WRONG IN THIS I TRUST THE HOLY SPIRIT TO CONVICT ME AND I THANK EVERYONE IN THIS FORUM FOR THEIR POINT OF VIEW - EACH WILL BE PRAYERFULLY CONSIDERED. MAN - COMMUNICATION IS SOMETIMES SO DIFFICULT......java script:add_smilie("","smid_29") wacko.gif NUF SED

Do you believe that homosexuality is worse than other sins? Steve THEY (SIN) ALL GET YOU TO THE SAME PLACE... I WAS A RC AND THEY DIVIDE SINS INTO VENIAL AND MORTAL - VENIAL GETS YOU TO PURGATORY (WHICH I DO NOT BELIEVE IN) AND MORTAL YOU GO STRAIGHT TO HELL. SINCE CHRIST DIED AND PAID THE ENTIRE PENALTY THERE IS NO NEED FOR PURGATORY - IF WE REPENT AND CONFESS (AGREE WITH GOD) CONCERNING OUR SIN THAN WE ARE FORGIVEN. NOW, DOES IT TAKE 1 UNCONFESSED LIE OR 2 - STEALING A CANDY BAR OR A PENNY FROM A LITTLE OLD LADY. I CERTAINLY DON'T KNOW ALL THINGS - BUT I AM SURE GOD IS JUST AND WILL DO THE RIGHT THING. I DO NOT RECOMMEND THAT WE SIT AROUND AND DEBATE WHAT SIN DESERVES WHAT PUNISHMENT DA DA DA .... NOW - IN OUR EYES SOME SINS ARE OBVIOUSLY BIGGER THAN OTHERS - MURDER VS A STRONG TAP ON THE HEAD IN ANGER - SEXUAL SIN ESPECIALLY INVOLVING CHILDREN - SOCIETY WILL CONTINUE TO PUSH THE ENVELOPE AND DO WHAT SEEMS RIGHT IN THEIR OWN EYES - YOU KNOW IF THE WHOLE WORLD VOTED IN FAVOR OF SAYING THAT A LITTLE LIE IS NOT SIN - THAT WOULD NOT CHANGE, IN MY OPINION, GOD'S POSITION OR THE FACT THAT IT IS STILL A LIE. JUST BECAUSE THE GOVERNMENT APPROVES OR YOUR PASTOR FOR THAT MATTER IT DOES NOT CHANGE WHAT HAS BEEN REVEALED TO US CONCERNING GOD'S LAWS. JESUS SAID,(PARAPHASED) IF YOU LOOK AT HER IN LUST - YOU HAVE ALREADY COMMITTED ADULTERY - I AM PRETTY SURE THAT HE ALSO SAID IF YOU VIOLATE ONE OF THE COMMANDMENTS YOU HAVE VIOLATED THEM ALL... THE ISSUE IS NOT WHAT IS THE GREATEST SIN THE REAL ISSUE IS HOW DO WE BRING THE LOVE OF CHRIST TO A DYING WORLD THAT SOME MIGHT BE SAVED...WHAT IF THE BIBLE IS TRUE?

FATHER IN THE NAME OF JESUS I ASK THAT THE LEADERSHIP WE HAVE WOULD COME TO A SAVING KNOWLEDGE OF JESUS AND WOULD BE CONVICTED BY THE HOLY SPIRIT OF TRUTH - ALL OF US NEEDED TO HAVE THE SPIRIT OF GOD WITHIN IF WE WERE TO KNOW THE TRUTH - LORD DO WHATEVER IT TAKES TO TO BRING Nancy Pelosi INTO YOUR TRUTH. IN JESUS MIGHTY NAME

YUP - NO DOUBT GOD IS LOVE I WOULD LIKE TO RECOMMEND A FANTASTIC BOOK - THE BIBLE - TO FIND OUT WHAT THAT LOVE OF GOD REALLY REALLY REALLY MEANS. ALSO, I LEARNED A LOT FROM The Attributes of God BY Arthur W. Pink I ALSO JUST GOOGLED "ATTRIBUTES OF GOD" FOUND SOME GREAT STUFF. NUF SED

THANK YOU FOR YOUR UNDERSTANDING - I UNDERSTAND RULES, TRADITIONS, ETC. AND NEVER INTENTIONALLY DO SOMETHING TO UPSET THE CART BUT SOMETIMES WE NEED TO REMEMBER THAT MANY RULES AND TRADITONS ETC ARE MADE FOR OUR CONVENIENCE AND MAY NOT BE AS APPLICABLE TO SOMEONE ELSE - I ASK FOR GRACE IN THIS AS MY EYES ARE NOT WHAT THEY USED TO BE. IF WE TRIED TO FOLLOW ALL THE RULES OF THE OLD TESTAMENT WE WOULD NEVER MAKE IT - THE SAME IS TRUE OF THE RULES OF MAN - "ENOUGH RULES CANNOT BE MADE TO STOP EVERYONE FROM DOING SOMETHING THAT WILL OFFEND SOMEONE". PERHAPS THAT IS ONE OF THE REASONS WE HAVE SOOOOOO MANY DENOMINATIONS, CHURCHES, ETC IN CHRISTIANITY - SO THOSE WHO LIKE CERTAIN RULES VS OTHER RULES CAN BE COMFORTABLE. I HOPE WE ARE NOT GOING TO DIVIDE THIS FORUM UP BASED ON THIS PRINCIPLE - IF SO NONE OF US WILL EVER LEARN ANYTHING..... NUF SED

GAY IS NOT MY TERM - THE HOMOSEXUAL COMMUNITY CHOSE IT. I DON'T THINK ANYONE TODAY DOES NOT KNOW WHAT THAT MEANS. I AGREE MOST OF OUR ACTIONS RESULT FROM OUR CHOICE. I EXPLAINED TO HOMOSEXUALS THAT JUST BECAUSE THEY HAVE THE DESIRE THAT DOES NOT JUSTIFY THE SIN ANYMORE THAN IF I AM TEMPTED TO COMMIT ADULTERY THAT WILL JUSTIFY MY DOING IT. THE POINT I AM TRYING TO MAKE IS - THERE ARE MILITANT HOMOSEXUALS AND MILITANT CHRISTIANS - IN MY OPINION, NEITHER IS JUSTIFIED IN THEIR ACTIONS. UNFORTUNATELY IF YOU WALK UP TO SOMEONE WHO IS NON-CHRISTIAN AND COULD CARE LESS ABOUT JESUS AND SAY, YOU'RE GOING TO HELL AND YOU ARE A FAGOT AND I AM GOING TO DO ALL I CAN TO MAKE SURE THAT YOU CANNOT GET A JOB, LIVE IN MY NEIGHBORHOOD, ETC.(WHATEVER).... T................ (CONDENSED BY PBOB TO SHORTEN POST) ONE WITH CHRIST (UNITY JOHN 17) AND FULLFILLTHE GREAT COMMISSION - ITS NICE TO HAVE HUGE CONGREGATIONS, BIG BUILDINGS, A SAFE SANCTUARY FROM THE WORLD - BUT FREQUENTLY ALL THESE (BLESSINGS OR CURSES) LEAD TO MANY LEAVING THE CHURCH - DENYING CHRIST AND JOINING A GROUP OF LIKE MINDED SINNERS. MAHATMA GANDHI, ONCE SAID, "I MIGHT HAVE BEEN A CHRISTIAN IF iIHAD NEVER MET ANY". IS IT POSSIBLE THAT WHAT WE DO SPEAKS SO LOUDLY THE UNBELIEVER DOESN'T HEAR A WORD WE SAY?? First off Bob, we don't use all capitals when posting a forum here, It's a form of shouting. Second I don't recall anyone using the term "fagot" here. This is a Christian forum. Jesus spoke the truth. When He went into the temple and people were using it to buy and sell he was anger and anyone within earshot knew it. The truth has to be told. I don't think anyone here goes up to a gay and yells that they are going to hell if they don't change their ways. I know the people here and they are caring, loving people who's heart is for this lost world. The truth spoken in love will speak volumes. However the bottom line is that your sin will send you to hell, no matter how unpopular that idea is or how harsh it sounds. I have three dear friends who are gay. I have a best friend who's son is gay and as far as i'm concerned Carl could live next door to me any day. He is a decent, caring man who has has an excellent job and is just a fine human being. I don't like the lifestyle. I don't want is shoved in my face anymore then I want anyone's sex life in my face, not just gays. I don't know much about Mahatma Gandhi but I would think that now he had wished he had listened to God truth. I have never seen your posts but you sound rather anger. You say you have a ministry, that's terrific. We need more people to step up to the plate and speak. The fields are white with harvest and the time is short. FIRST PLEASE REVIEW THE QUOTE BELOW WHERE RAY USED THE WORD FAGOT - IN A WAY OF UNDERSTANDING. I ASSURE YOU I AM NOT YELLING - REFER TO MY SIGNATURE BELOW AS TO WHY I USE CAPS. ANGRY - PERHAPS AS I SEE HOW "CHRISTIANS" RESPOND TO VARIOUS ISSUES - YOU KNOW ANGER CAN BE A "PRIME MOTIVATOR" I HAVE EVEN GIVEN A SERMON BY THAT TITLE. WAS JESUS ANGRY IN THE TEMPLE? WHEN HE CALLED THE PHARISEES A BROOD OF VIPERS? ANGER CAN ENABLE AND MOTIVATE ONE TO DO SOMETHING - CONSTRUCTIVE ABOUT THE THING CAUSING THE ANGER --- SEEKING THE HOLY SPIRIT AS WE GO. I TO HAVE MANY HOMOSEXUAL FRIENDS, IN FACT, LAST EVENING I SPENT AN HOUR WITH TWO OF THEM AT THEIR HOME TALKING ABOUT THE BIBLE - HOMOSEXUALITY AND A POSSIBLE HOUSE CHURCH WHERE THEY COULD FEEL SAFE - THEY ARE GENUINELY INTERESTED. IF I HAVE OFFEND YOU OR ANYONE FORGIVE ME. I ASK THAT THE MODS PLEASE LET ME KNOW IF THE LANGUAGE I USE OR THE WAY I EXPRESS MYSELF IS A PROBLEM. I WAS SOOOOO EXCITED WHEN I FOUND THIS FORUM AND FELT THAT IT WAS A PLACE WHERE MANY FOLLOWERS OF CHRIST WERE REALLY TRYING TO SEEK THE LORD AND BE HIS SERVANTS - I STILL DO. I JUST FEEL THE TIME IS GETTING SHORT AND IT IS TIME TO FACE REALITY - THE TIME FOR RHETORIC, SEMANTICS AND EASYSPEAK (I THINK???1984 - SAYING ONE THING AND MEANING ANOTHER) IS OVER. WE MUST, IN MY HEART (OPINION) CRY OUT TO THE SINNERS WITH TRUTH AND LOVE. THERE ARE SO MANY OUT THERE HURTING - SOME HAVE EVEN TRIED CHURCH AND LEFT BECAUSE OF HARSH JUDEMENT, ETC I STILL FEEL IT IS MY (OUR) MISSION BE BRING THE LOVE OF CHRIST AND HIS TRUTH TO A DYING WORLD - IT IS THE MINISTRY OF THE HOLY SPIRIT TO CONVICT, BRING TO REPENTANCE AND FORGIVENESS AND JUDGEMENT. java script:emoticon('', 'smid_14')

YEP! I AM REALLY UPSET I READ firehill'S POST AND SAID - I NEED TO TELL HIM, "GOD IS LOVE". Y'ALL BEAT ME TO IT. java script:add_smilie("","smid_55") emot-crying.gif NOW LET'S ASK WHAT IS LOVE - AGAPE LOVE? DOES IF NOT SEEK TO TEACH, DISCIPLINE AND CHASTISE THAT THE ONE LOVED WILL NOT SUFFER LONGTERM PAIN?

GAY IS NOT MY TERM - THE HOMOSEXUAL COMMUNITY CHOSE IT. I DON'T THINK ANYONE TODAY DOES NOT KNOW WHAT THAT MEANS. I AGREE MOST OF OUR ACTIONS RESULT FROM OUR CHOICE. I EXPLAINED TO HOMOSEXUALS THAT JUST BECAUSE THEY HAVE THE DESIRE THAT DOES NOT JUSTIFY THE SIN ANYMORE THAN IF I AM TEMPTED TO COMMIT ADULTERY THAT WILL JUSTIFY MY DOING IT. THE POINT I AM TRYING TO MAKE IS - THERE ARE MILITANT HOMOSEXUALS AND MILITANT CHRISTIANS - IN MY OPINION, NEITHER IS JUSTIFIED IN THEIR ACTIONS. UNFORTUNATELY IF YOU WALK UP TO SOMEONE WHO IS NON-CHRISTIAN AND COULD CARE LESS ABOUT JESUS AND SAY, YOU'RE GOING TO HELL AND YOU ARE A FAGOT AND I AM GOING TO DO ALL I CAN TO MAKE SURE THAT YOU CANNOT GET A JOB, LIVE IN MY NEIGHBORHOOD, ETC.(WHATEVER).... THIS MOST LIKELY WILL RESULT IN YOU BEING TOLD TO "GO TO HELL" AND A GAY CLUB FILLED WITH MILITANTS WHO ARE GOING TO USE ANYTHING THEY CAN TO DEFEAT YOU. THIS APPROACH WILL SEVER AND ALIENATE ANY OPPORTUNITY FOR YOU BEING LIGHT AND SALT AND TO WITNESS TO THEM. I DO NOT EXCUSE HOMOSEXUALITY OR AGREE WITH IT AT ALL - IT IS AN ABOMINATION TO THE LORD - I AM ONLY TRYING TO GET ACROSS A POINT JESUS MADE .. HE WAS ACCUSED OF DINING AND DRINKING WITH SINNERS AND HE EVEN SAID TO A GROUP OF RELIGIOUS LEGALISTS, PEOPLE WHO WERE ABOUT TO STONE THE WOMAN CAUGHT IN ADULTERY "HE WHO IS WITHOUT SIN CAST THE FIRST STONE" AND THEN TO THE WOMAN "GO AND SIN NO MORE". HE CERTAINLY REALIZED SHE WAS A SINNER AND I DON'T THINK HE LOOKED AT THAT FRIVOLOUSLY - HE WAS SHOWING US A WAY TO RELATE TO THE SINNER. THIS AT LEAST SUGGESTS HE SOUGHT RELATIONSHIPS WITH SINNERS, TOLD THEM THAT THEY WERE SINNERS, LOVED THEM AND I THINK IN THE CASE OF THIS WOMAN SHE BECAME A DEVOTED FOLLOWER. THERE ARE TIMES PERHAPS WHEN WE CAN TRY TO JUSTIFY CALLING THEM ANYTHING WE WANT BUT WHERE IN THE BIBLE ARE WE GIVEN PERMISSION TO DO THAT. WOULD WE DO THE SAME TO ONE WHO HAS COMMITTED ADULTRY? DIVORCED? LIED? STOLE? .... I THINK (KNOW) WITHOUT A SAVING KNOWLEDGE OF JESUS, REPENTANCE AND FORGIVENESS THEY ALSO WILL ALL GO TO HELL. YES - HOMOSEXUALITY IS SOMETHING THAT MANY DETEST AND FIND PERVERTED - WHICH IT IS - BUT HOW MANY OR WHAT KIND OF UNFORGIVEN SIN WILL RESULT IN ETERNAL DAMNATION - 1,2,78, 2 LIES, 4 DIVORCES, 28 HOMOSEXUAL ACTS .... THE ANSWER ALL! WHERE I LIVE IN "SULLIVAN COUNTY NY" THERE ARE MANY, MANY, HOMOSEXUALS AND LESBIANS - EACH YEAR FOR THE LAST 5 OR 6 AN "ANNUAL DAY TO BE GAY HAS BEEN HELD" - I SAY "WHAT AN OPPORTUNITY TO WITNESS -SO I HAVE ATTENDED (PURCHASE A SITE) WITH MY VAN WHICH HAS SCRIPTURE ALL OVER IT AND "CRYING IN THE WILDERNESS" AND ANSWER QUESTIONS - PROVIDE BIBLES - AND DO ALL I CAN AS THE HS LEADS TO SHOW THE LOVE OF CHRIST - IT IS OBVIOUS AND VERY CLEAR TO THOSE ATTENDING WHERE I STAND AND WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS. SOMETIMES I FEEL LIKE A MISSIONARY IN A FOREIGN LAND AND MAY NEVER LEAD A HOMOSEXUAL TO CHRIST BUT THAT HAS HAPPENED BEFORE IN THE MISSION FIELD - SOME PLANT - SOME CARE FOR - SOME HARVEST. WHAT IS A SOUL WORTH??? I ALSO FEEL CONVICTED BY THE SPIRIT THAT IT IS NOT MY RESPONSIBILITY TO CONVICT OR PASS FINAL JUDGEMENT - I TELL THE TRUTH, HAVE RELATIONSHIP, PRAY FOR AND WITH (WHICH I HAVE) AND THE HOLY SPIRIT WILL HANDLE IT FROM THERE - CONVICT, JUDGE, BRING TO REPENTANCE, - .. IT BECOMES THEIR CHOICE. I ALWAYS MAKE IT CLEAR AND - THEY KNOW THAT - THAT HOMOSEXUALITY IS A SIN AND AN ABOMINATION TO THE LORD. I USUALLY END OUR DISCUSSIONS WITH, "WHAT IF THE BIBLE IS TRUE?" AND THE THREE QUESTIONS IN MY SIGNATURE BELOW. I AM IN THIS FORUM TO TEST, CONFIRM, ETC THE MINISTRY I HAVE BEEN CALLED TO AND I WELCOME ALL POINTS OF VIEW FROM THE PARTICIPANTS - BOTTOMLINE ALL WILL BE JUDGED BY ME IN PRAYER AND CONFIRMATION IN BIBLE STUDY. YOUR THOUGHTS ARE APPRECIATED. INCIDENTLY, I DO NOT FEEL CALLED TO WITNESS THIS WAY TO HOMOSEXUALS ONLY BUT ALSO TO MANY IN THE BODY OF CHRIST - WHO CALL THEMSELVES "CHRISTIANS" BUT HAVE NO IDEA WHAT JESUS REALLY TAUGHT AND ARE QUICK TO CONDEMN OTHERS - IT'S TIME TO STOP PLAYING "CHURCH' AND BECOME ONE WITH CHRIST (UNITY JOHN 17) AND FULLFILLTHE GREAT COMMISSION - ITS NICE TO HAVE HUGE CONGREGATIONS, BIG BUILDINGS, A SAFE SANCTUARY FROM THE WORLD - BUT FREQUENTLY ALL THESE (BLESSINGS OR CURSES) LEAD TO MANY LEAVING THE CHURCH - DENYING CHRIST AND JOINING A GROUP OF LIKE MINDED SINNERS. MAHATMA GANDHI, ONCE SAID, "I MIGHT HAVE BEEN A CHRISTIAN IF iIHAD NEVER MET ANY". IS IT POSSIBLE THAT WHAT WE DO SPEAKS SO LOUDLY THE UNBELIEVER DOESN'T HEAR A WORD WE SAY??

WHY IS THERE MUTATION, DISEASE, PAIN, ETC CONSIDER THESE FIVE REASONS: WHAT ARE REASONS FOR PAIN AND SUFFERING - I WILL POST THIS IN ANOTHER FORUM AS WELL - 1. MY FREE WILL - I CAN MAKE DECISIONS AND CHOICES THAT CAN CAUSE ME PAIN AND SUFFERING, IE, SMOKING, DRUGS, HOMOSEXUALITY, ETC 2. YOUR FREE WILL - I DON'T EVEN KNOW YOU AND YOU COULD MEET ME AND DECIDE TO HIT ME OVER THE HEAD WITH A 2X4 BECAUSE YOU WANT MY MONEY. YOUR CHOICE CAUSED ME PAIN AND SUFFERING 3. SIN - THE BIBLE TELLS US THAT BECAUSE OF SIN ALL OF CREATION IS IN A TURMOIL - CONSIDER THE COSMOS BUT MORE CLOSE TO HOME - DISEASE, AGING, DEATH, MUTATIONS, BLINDNESS, ETC. (ROMANS 8:15 - 8:22) 4. SATAN - ROAMS THROUGHOUT THE WORLD SEEKING WHOM HE CAN DEVOUR - I CANNOT EXPLAIN ALL THIS BUT I FEEL CONFIDENT THAT SATAN CAUSES PAIN AND SUFFERING WHEREVER GOD PERMITS HIM TO (CONSIDER JOB) FINALLY 5. GOD - THE WORD SAY HE CHASTISES AND DISCIPLINES THOSE WHOM HE LOVES (I REMEMBER DAD DOING THAT - IT SURE FELT LIKE PAIN) THERE ARE MANY OTHER TIMES WHEN THE LORD ALLOWED SATAN OR HIS ANGELS TO BRING PAIN AND SUFFERING TO MAN BECAUSE OF THEIR DISOBEDIENCE. IN THE MEANTIME WE ARE CALLED TO BE LIGHT AND SALT TO BE HIS WITNESSES AND TO SHOW HIS LOVE TO A DYING WORLD. HE IS RIGHTEOUS AND JUST AND WILL DO WHAT IS RIGHT. OH, CHRISTIANS ALSO EXPERIENCE PAIN AND SUFFERING BUT "CHRIST IN US THE HOPE OF GLORY" 1CORINTHIANS 13

Right Arthur. You can put any spin on this you want. Call it gay marriage or Civil Union but God calls it sin. We are to respond to the gays as Jesus would. Love the people but hate and reject the lifestyle. This topic has been around the block about a million times but the answer is still the same. It's sin. You won't go to hell because you are gay. You go to hell because you reject Jesus. If you accept Christ then you must accept what His word says and he calls the homosexual lifestyle an abomination to Him. I have known gays that have tried to straddle the fence when it comes to this. I know a man who has accepted Christ yet says he's gay and always will be. He doesn't pratice the lifestyle. I don't buy into that either. God did not create him that way therefore he can be changed by the power of God, but had taken the easy way out. In my mind it's a chosen lifestyle and can be changed if you give yourself over to God. I POSTED THE ABOVE EARLIER - CONSIDER THE CONVERSATION.... WHAT I AM POSTING BELOW IS NOT MEANT TO APPROVE HOMOSEXUALITY OR PROVIDE AN EXCUSE TO CONTINUE IN THE GAY LIFE STYLE.... I AM A SCIENTIST (PHD MEDICAL BIOCHEMISTRY) - NOT THAT THAT MEANS ANYTHING - BUT I WORKED YEARS IN BIOCHEMISTRY AND CLINICAL CHEMISTRY AND FEEL THAT GAYNESS COULD BE A RESULT OF SOMETHING MORE THAN CHOICE - (UNPROVEN- YES I AM SURE THERE IS CHOICE INVOLVED BUT THE SEXUAL URGE IN EVEN CHRISTIANS CAN LEAD TO BAD CHOICES) - A RESULT OF MUTATION, ETC. LET ME EXPLAIN. I KNOW PEOPLE WHO THINK THAT SOMEONE WITH DIABETES OR CLINICAL DEPRESSION OR MENTAL DISEASE OR CANCER OF THE STOMACH OR........ HAVE APPARENTLY DONE SOMETHING WRONG OR ARE POSSESSED OR DON'T HAVE ENOUGH FAITH AND SHOULD NOT TAKE MEDICINE - WHICH I GUESS IMPLIES THEY DON'T TRUST GOD. WELL I AM CONFIDENT THAT MANY DISEASES, MUTATIONS, ABNORMALITIES, HORMONAL PROBLEMS...ETC ARE INHERITED, A RESULT OF A MUTATION, A RESULT OF EXPOSURE TO CHEMICALS, ETC AND THEY ARE PRESENT IN NEW BORNS. I HAVE ALSO BEEN IN FELLOWSHIP WITH AN INDIVIDUAL WHO WAS TRUELY TRANS-SEXUAL... I MET HER AS SAMANTHA AND KNEW HIM LATER AS SAM - HE/SHE WAS BORN WITH BOTH MALE AND FEMALE SEXUAL ORGANS - GENETICALLY HE WAS XYY OR XXY RELATIVE TO HIS CHROMOSOMES - MALES ARE XY AND FEMALES ARE XX. IN ANY CASE AT ABOUT 40 AFTER LIVING A VERY CONFUSED AND HURTFUL LIFE AS A WOMAN HE BEGAN TAKING MALE HORMONES, HAD AN OERATION AND IS NOW LIVING AS A MALE IN A MARITAL RELATIONSHIP OF OVER 10 YEARS. DID GOD CREATE HIM THAT WAY? NO - SEE EXPLAINATION BELOW... BEFORE, PROVIDING FURTHER DISCUSSION - CONSIDER THIS STATEMENT IN THE ABOVE QUOTE FROM MY PREVIOUS POST, "I then said, You know what, I think God is more concerned about what we want to do than what we do. We cannot just deny Him to indulge in the things of the flesh. I aslo reminded him that, "Greater is He that is in you (me) than he that is in the world." I DID IN FACT ALSO DISCUSS REPENTANCE AND FORGIVENESS WHICH IF I REMEMBER IS FREELY GIVEN TO ALL WHO APPLY.. WHY IS THERE MUTATION, DISEASE, PAIN, ETC CONSIDER THESE FIVE REASONS: WHAT ARE REASONS FOR PAIN AND SUFFERING - I WILL POST THIS IN ANOTHER FORUM AS WELL - 1. MY FREE WILL - I CAN MAKE DECISIONS AND CHOICES THAT CAN CAUSE ME PAIN AND SUFFERING, IE, SMOKING, DRUGS, HOMOSEXUALITY, ETC 2. YOUR FREE WILL - I DON'T EVEN KNOW YOU AND YOU COULD MEET ME AND DECIDE TO HIT ME OVER THE HEAD WITH A 2X4 BECAUSE YOU WANT MY MONEY. YOUR CHOICE CAUSED ME PAIN AND SUFFERING 3. SIN - THE BIBLE TELLS US THAT BECAUSE OF SIN ALL OF CREATION IS IN A TURMOIL - CONSIDER THE COSMOS BUT MORE CLOSE TO HOME - DISEASE, AGING, DEATH, MUTATIONS, BLINDNESS, ETC. (ROMANS 8:15 - 8:22) 4. SATAN - ROAMS THROUGHOUT THE WORLD SEEKING WHOM HE CAN DEVOUR - I CANNOT EXPLAIN ALL THIS BUT I FEEL CONFIDENT THAT SATAN CAUSES PAIN AND SUFFERING WHEREVER GOD PERMITS HIM TO (CONSIDER JOB) FINALLY 5. GOD - THE WORD SAY HE CHASTISES AND DISCIPLINES THOSE WHOM HE LOVES (I REMEMBER DAD DOING THAT - IT SURE FELT LIKE PAIN) THERE ARE MANY OTHER TIMES WHEN THE LORD ALLOWED SATAN OR HIS ANGELS TO BRING PAIN AND SUFFERING TO MAN BECAUSE OF THEIR DISOBEDIENCE. IN THE MEANTIME WE ARE CALLED TO BE LIGHT AND SALT TO BE HIS WITNESSES AND TO SHOW HIS LOVE TO A DYING WORLD. HE IS RIGHTEOUS AND JUST AND WILL DO WHAT IS RIGHT. java script:add_smilie("","smid_13")java script:add_smilie("","smid_21") emot-heartbeat.gifjava script:add_smilie("","smid_47") emot-handshake.gifjava script:add_smilie("","smid_168") th_handshake.gif wub.gif

IF IT SEEMS LIKE I WAS YELLING -NO - I AM VERY NEARSITED, GETTING OLDER AND FIND IT MUCH EASIER TO USE CAPS WHEN SUBMITTING POSTS EXCEPT FOR ITEMS THAT MAY BE CUT AND PASTED. SO FORGIVE ME BUT ALTHOUGH I AM NOT YELLING I AM CRYING IN THE WILDERNESS. FORGIVE ME FOR AN UNINTENDED OFFENSE. java script:add_smilie("","smid_68") 20.gif

SOME THOUGHT SHOULD BE GIVEN TO THE CONCEPTS BELOW. IF IN FACT BAPTISM IN THE HS IS STILL AVIALABLE PERHAPS CHRISTIANS SHOULD SEEK IT - I OFTEN SAY TO PEOPLE THE BAPTISM IN THE HOLY SPIRIT AND SPEAKING IN TONGUES (A LESSER GIFT) IS NOT NECESSARY FOR YOUR SALVATION BUT WHAT IF IT IS OFFERED - RATHER THAN TRY TO FIGURE IT ALL OUT WHY NOT SEEK THE LORD AND CHALLENGE HIM SAYING IF IT IS THERE I WANT IT. AS I HAVE SAID MANY TIMES - FAITH COMES BY HEARING AND HEARING BY THE WORD OF GOD NOT BY READING COMMENTARIES WHICH I LOOK AT AS MEN BASICALLY SAYING LET US TELL YOU WHAT GOD REALLY MEANT. WHATEVER HAPPENED TO BELIEVING THAT IT IS THE HS WHO IS TRUTH AND REVEALS TO US THE TRUTH. DON'T GET ME WRONG - COMMENTARIES, BOOKS, ETC HAVE THEIR PLACE AND ARE VALUABLE IN SEEKING UNDERSTANDING BUT THEY ARE NOT "THE WORD OF GOD". COMMENTARIES OR TEACHINGS OF WESLEY DO NOT AGREE TOTALLY WITH CALVIN - WHOSE RIGHT - NOW ASK WHY SO MANY DENOMINATIONS? - WHY IS THE BODY OF CHRIST SO DIVIDED? WHY CAN SOME APPROVE OF HOMOSEXUALITY AND OTHERS SAY IT IS A SIN -THEY CANNOT ALL BE RIGHT. I ENCOURAGE EVERYONE TO SEEK THE LORD - STUDY THE WORD AND SEEK TO HAVE ALL THAT GOD HAS FOR YOU. CONSIDER THE THOUGHTS BELOW AND THE SCRIPTURE QUOTED BELOW THAT... The Baptism in the Holy Spirit All believers are entitled to and should ardently expect and earnestly seek the promise of the Father, the baptism in the Holy Spirit and fire, according to the command of our Lord Jesus Christ. This was the normal experience of all in the early Christian Church. With it comes the enduement of power for life and service, the bestowment of the gifts and their uses in the work of the ministry. * Luke 24:49 [KJV/NIV] * Acts 1:4 [KJV/NIV] * Acts 1:8 [KJV/NIV] * 1 Corinthians 12:1-31 [KJV/NIV] This experience is distinct from and subsequent to the experience of the new birth. * Acts 8:12-17 [KJV/NIV] * Acts 10:44-46 [KJV/NIV] * Acts 11:14-16 [KJV/NIV] * Acts 15:7-9 [KJV/NIV] With the baptism in the Holy Spirit come such experiences as: * an overflowing fullness of the Spirit, John 7:37-39 [KJV/NIV], Acts 4:8 [KJV/NIV] * a deepened reverence for God, Acts 2:43 [KJV/NIV], Hebrews 12:28 [KJV/NIV] * an intensified consecration to God and dedication to His work, Acts 2:42 [KJV/NIV] * and a more active love for Christ, for His Word and for the lost, Mark 16:20 [KJV/NIV] The Initial Physical Evidence of the Baptism in the Holy Spirit The baptism of believers in the Holy Spirit is witnessed by the initial physical sign of speaking with other tongues as the Spirit of God gives them utterance. * Acts 2:4 [KJV/NIV] The speaking in tongues in this instance is the same in essence as the gift of tongues, but is different in purpose and use. * 1 Corinthians 12:4-10 [KJV/NIV] * 1 Corinthians 12:28 [KJV/NIV] 1Co 12:4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. 1Co 12:5 And there are diversities of ministrations, and the same Lord. 1Co 12:6 And there are diversities of workings, but the same God, who worketh all things in all. 1Co 12:7 But to each one is given the manifestation of the Spirit to profit withal. 1Co 12:8 For to one is given through the Spirit the word of wisdom; and to another the word of knowledge, according to the same Spirit: 1Co 12:9 to another faith, in the same Spirit; and to another gifts of healings, in the one Spirit; 1Co 12:10 and to another workings of miracles; and to another prophecy; and to another discernings of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; and to another the interpretation of tongues: 1Co 12:11 but all these worketh the one and the same Spirit, dividing to each one severally even as he will. 1Co 12:12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of the body, being many, are one body; so also is Christ.

i agree - check out the WORD Act 2:1 And when the day of Pentecost was now come, they were all together in one place. Act 2:2 And suddenly there came from heaven a sound as of the rushing of a mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. Act 2:3 And there appeared unto them tongues parting asunder, like as of fire; and it sat upon each one of them. Act 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. You all can argue about the tongues bit - I happen to believe it and speak in tongues especially when I know not how to pray. BUT whether you do or do not has nothing to do with your salvation

BELOW IS AN EDITED E-MAIL I RECENTLY RECEIVED FROM A MISSIONARY FRIEND - IMAGINE IF THE US PASSED A LAW THAT SAID NO HOME SCHOOLING AND LEGALIZED PROSTITUTION, DRUGS, EUTHANASIA AND HOMOSEXUALITY (SOME OF THESE LAWS ARE ALREADY PASSED OR IN ONE OF GOV HOUSES)java script:add_smilie("","smid_55") emot-crying.gif Praise the Lord, we are finally leaving for the Netherlands on January 9th! We would appreciate your prayers for... .REMOVED SECTION ...for our quick adjustment to being back in Europe, especially for Nathan. ...that we would be able to get an exemption for TONY (NAMED CHANGED) to finish out this school year at his online homeschool. Prostitution, drugs and euthanasia are legal in Holland, but homeschooling is not! ...for open doors for the gospel and the work we've been called to do! Thanks for your prayers! EMPASIS MINE PBOB

All I know (think it will never happen and don't believe it) is that now none of us need to worry about our "pursuit of happiness" the Dems will take care of it for us. I have been labelled by some as a right wing, Bible thumping, intolerant, gay bashing,etc etc etc person. I really do not try to be but oh, well...they didn't like Ezekiel or Jerimiah either. Below is a "satire - joke? I recently received on the internet. Don' be offended - vote for the man that God approves and you can find that out if you spend time with Him. Grandpa and the Government Check Without any paperwork or for any reason, this old black man everyone called Grandpa started getting a $500 check every month. So Grandpa and Grandma started cashing them. It turns out the government made a mistake with the address; the checks were intended for another person with the exact same name. Grandpa then received a notice that he had to pay back $6,000. Visibly upset, he complained to his grandson, an accountant. His grandson asked: "Grandpa, didn't you wonder why you were receiving checks for doing absolutely nothing?" Grandpa answered: "I just assumed the Democrats were back in power."

A great!!! study and a "tolerant" point of view in my opinion. Again, I want to emphasize some of the job (I believe) of the Holy Spirit - to reveal truth - to convict us of sin. Not my yob, man. I bring the good news along with the agape love of Christ as one crying in the wilderness with a compassionate roar. Free will is a precious gift from God for all of us - we can choose to use it His way or the other way but regardless of our choices God still calls the shots and I really don't think He is about to consult me or anyone else. He "sits in the heavens and does whatever He pleases" whether you and I like it or not. that old bumper sticker says it all "GOD SAID IT - I BELIEVE IT - THAT SETTLES IT" You can get rid of the part about I BELIEVE IT because whether you and I believe it or not if He said it that SETTLES IT. The Lord says " Let us sit down and reason togetrher" I.ve done this on numerous occations in my 65 years and have yet to hear Him say, "Oh, now I understand your way I was wrong." as He hits His head with the palm of His hand. Relevant Scriptures: (ASV) I'm sure ther are more .... 1Jo 5:7 And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is the truth. Joh 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he shall guide you into all the truth Joh 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may be with you for ever, Joh 14:17 even the Spirit of truth: whom the world cannot receive; for it beholdeth him not, neither knoweth him: ye know him; for he abideth with you, and shall be in you. Joh 16:8 And he, when he is come, will convict the world in respect of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: Note: Great free Bible is avilable on the internet ' "e- sword" you can get multiple versions, commentaries, etc -it's filled with all kindso tools like macros for your word processor. Since I don't think I am allowed to put a URL here I recommend you go to "google" and search e-sword - I just did it - its the first thing that comes up.