hupo

the activity is over. The results: 8 youngsters who study in the Yeshiva are dead and about 10 more wounded.

Less than an hour ago two terrorists attacked the main Yeshiva in Jerusalem, shooting in every direction. 8 know to be dead and it is not final

KatyAnn Shalom I am biased, having been living in Israel all my life, besides, Shilo and the others are doing a much better job than I can, explaining things scripture based. What I can add is the personal touch. I know this doesn't nesceserily fit in with God's plans but I'll add it anyway, for what it's worth to you. You mentioned "unjust zionist policies". From the day I can remember we were involved in wars and acts of violence by our neighbors...... you know, the neighbors we are supposed to love as ourselves. In 1948 I was 4 years old and watched my dad swing big guns around practicing to ward off a Syrian attack. For a 4-year-old it was fun watching them play war games. We didn't have a clue how serious it was. In 1956 I was 11-12 and we were told the Egyptians had blocked off the Suez canal cutting of our south from the world. We were getting somewhat concerned as the news kept bringing numbers of people killed. Our parents were out there. In 1967 I was just out of the army when Egypt decided to block off the red sea. Again our south was cut off and by now I knew how serious all this was. The 6-day-war was a big victory, millitarywise. At that time I didn't have a clue how much God was involved. 1973 we were attacked on the most sacred day. Again we won this war. We couldn't afford not to! In 1982 we went after the terrorists who were now using Lebanon as their base. We stayed in Lebanon for 18 years keeping the north of Israel safe. We left and Hisbollah now took their turn to "get rid of the Zionist state". the war with Lebanon in summer 2006 was the explosion of all that hatred that had been building up since 1948 (and before). By this time I had come to recognize God and the amazing sacrifice of His only son. I realized we were meant to be here according to God's plan. I also realized we were going through all kinds of tribulations due to most Israelies not recognizing their Messaiah. I also understood when God told me to pray for my enemies. Have you ever tried doing that? Praying for your enemy as he shoots rockets at your home? It was the hardest thing in my life. Left to my own feelings I would so hate Palestinians, Arabs and anyone of the countries around me who have been trying to kill me ever since I can remember. I have had debates with people in this forum about the need to pray for the Palestinians, where deep inside my flesh being It is the last thing I feel like doing. Now I hear people in this forum telling me the Palestinians are suffering? Of course they are! Do you know why? Just look at their leaders all through the ages. They are the ones you should be talking to. We shoot those that shoot our children. Hamas shoots at civilian cities to kill as many as they can. It 's good for the media. They know very well that if they stop shooting we will not touch them. That is something they cannot have. A Hamas leader spoke out just a few days ago saying they have an advantage over us...... do you know what that advantage is? Israel takes life very seriously while we (the Hamas) lift up death and Shahidism !! Yes I know God wants me to pray for them. It will take God Himself to get me to do that. Just a little question: What would you personally do if your kids were being shot at? Would you pray for the shooters?

Elchingen You have no idea what a threatning tone is. I joined a Palestinian-Israeli forum where people declared their loyalty to the Palestinians. I was warned that this was the case yet they allowed me to stay as long as I didn't accuse the Palestinians of anything. "Anything" to them was ANYTHING - I was warned every time I mentioned a suicide bombing, not to lie in this forum!! While people disagree with you, no one here has threatened to kick you out, something I didn't have the privelage of in that forum Yes, you are getting off lightly Regards - David

Yes I'm sure it looks "realistic" from several thousand miles away Ahhh ..... the luxury of watching war movies......... But you know....... God is in control and what we say here has no influence on God's plan I trust God. NOT the media Blessings

Hi Ingelosi, If I understand the debate here, it is that Shilo does not think that what is going on now is part of God's plan and the Palestinians are not God's tool, Please correct me if I'm wrong, Shilo It's a matter of the way one sees things. A totally legit view and you know what, Shilo could be right, I just happen to think otherwise But lets face it. I don't know God's plan and more than Shilo does. I don't see facts here, just views I guess we just differ in our views

Shilo, All through scripture, God's wrath was poured on His people What I am saying here is this is still going on. Most Jews in Israel don't believe in the true Messaiah This has always been something the Jewish nation has been paying for. It is in this sense, that we are being punished by God, in this case, using the Palestinians as His whip, as He did with many nations in the past. If you believe this is not the case, ok, so we disagree, is all. That's ok with me. As for the Palestinians getting prayed for. I am not saying this should be instead of prayers for my own people. It is natural and easy for me to pray for my own people. Praying for the Palestinians is impossible for me without God's help. That is why I emphasized that part of it. Praying for the Palestinians is something I am doing for my own salvation. It is God's command. What our enemies are doing is every bit the way you described it. I agree with you on that. God will be their judge and as I said elsewhere, I am no vegitarian. If someone shoots at me, I will shoot him first, if I can, but I will do it not out of hatred for him but rather from love of my children. God never told us to commit suicide and so I believe in defending myself, yes. But in doing that, there is a big spiritual difference in "where I am coming from"

Well said. We should pray for them and let God judge them when their time comes and hopefully, they will be judged with mercy. It is God's will that every person on earth goes to heaven, lets give Him some help with that! Funny, how this courtesy is not extended to the Jews. Everybody is ready to talk about how it is all their fault, and they are problem and the Palestinians are "God's tool" as if the Jews deserve what they get.Let's just stick it to those dirty Jews. The Palestinians can maim, murder, bomb, destroy and you will "pray" for them. The Jews who are the objects of this irrational hatred which spawns these attacks are regurlarly demonized as objects of God's wrath and any attempt to defend themselves is condemned. There is a word for that... Anti-Semitism. Shilo Please concidere before getting all worked up about this..... I'm an Israeli. A Jew. Been living in Israel since 1949. Served in the IDF. Have actively participated in most of the wars we've been through. My 6 children and 11 grand children are all Israeli Jews living in this country, surrounded by hatred. I have been personally attacked when a Syrian 120 mm mortar shell exploded in my face, right here in my home village! Do you really believe I'm an anti-semite ??!! Believe me, I have all the reasons in the world to hate Palestinians. I can also understand your anguish at what seems so unfair in your eyes (and mine too, by the way) If I pray for them, there are two reasons for it. the first is, God wants us to do that The second is, I do not want hatred to fill my heart. that place should be reserved for Yeshua So when I pray for the enemy it is directed at keeping my heart out of the hatred zone. Does this make any sense?

And you have the nerve to accuse me of being naive... What a bunch of garbage. Thanks Shilo I love you too !

My response to Shilo was based on my understanding of his words, but not the meaning behind them. My mistake There are those who would recognize Israel, believe it or not, but only as a state, not as a Jewish state That is, of course, a slimey way of trying to take over the country by "democratic majority", especially if we fall for the "right to return" move. Unfortunately, for now, we have to use our army. Some day we will ALL realize who is really running the show, and then the IDF will be a tool in God's plan My only real problem now is defined in my sig. Namely, the need for patience

Well, we don't seem to disagree on anything. I guess my way of (mis)understanding what you meant complicated things. Sorry about that

Hi Shilo, I think that is a naive view Israel is a sore thumb in the face of Islam. Israel's very existence points out Islam's failure. It points out the phallacy of the Quran prophecies Islam's existence depends on Israel disappearing This is one conflict that will only be resolved according to God's plan No, it is not a naive view. It just happens to be the truth. I realize the relationship of Israel to the Muslims. I am simply pointing out the simplicity of the solution, which the world itself refuses to acknowledge since the world hates Israel as much if not more than the Muslims. The world sides with Islam against Israel, because I have discovered that as for of the international community is concerned, a psychopathic, maniacal, muderer children is still better than a Jew. What I meant by naive was this part "If the Arab world would simply acknowledge the natio of Israel, this conflict would be over" The Islamic (rather than Arab) world cannot acknowledge the nation of Israel as it's very existence proves Islam prophecy to be wrong This is all part of the spiritual war going on

Hi Shilo, I think that is a naiive view Israel is a sore thumb in the face of Islam. Israel's very existence points out Islam's failure. It points out the phallacy of the Quran prophecies Islam's existence depends on Israel disappearing This is one conflict that will only be resolved according to God's plan

Right now it is a propaganda war. It's a matter of world wide rating If we could explain our position as well as we can free hostages from Uganda, we would be way ahead by now. That is politics But in reality, we don't trust God enough and are paying for it The Palestinians are just a tool in God's plan We should be praying for the Palestinians rather than accuse them

You're right of course, when you say it doesn't matter, they will hate us anyway But why satisfy their need for accusing Israel? Keep them guessing....why not? All the big "be a shahid" preachers are in hiding, they don't like the idea of being Shahidim themselves. I say, let them sweat

So what else is new?! The only news here is they have a "better sounding" excuse for doing what they've been trying to do all along When a snake's head is cut off, it wriggles around, lashing out, for a while. Has to be expected. Say, I wonder what will happen to Hisbollah if they find out Nasrallah was behind it all.............. Oh, don't look at me. I didn't do it

Shalom ajesuschrist_mathetes This is way over my head......... I have to admit that my last post was just about the sum total of what I know about end times. I have never seriously been through the book of revelations. Daniel is the book I have just finished discussing in today's bible study meeting. I don't want to "invent" a new interpretation of God's word. So, for now I'll read what others have to say and hopefully I can join in further down the line Thank you for your generous input

Shalom ajesuschrist_mathetes, I'll try answering your post in the order you used..... Living in Israel sounds as bad (or as good) as the media paint it. I've been living here since the age of 5 and believe me I wouldn't be here today if I saw it as black as the media sometimes paint it. Don't forget the blessings. The state of Israel is in itself a kind of miracle! All the odds were against it existing for more than a few hours, back in 1948, and today, 60 years later, we are still around and prospering. Yes, some things are awful, like wars and terrorist attacks etc...... but then so are road accidents and death from drugs, smoking, heart attacks and 9/11 type of attacks. But then, even if I couldn't stand living here, where would I go to? There is no shortage of wrong doings. What we do to each other on the roads, in night clubs, in families, robbing old people, practicly putting obstecals in front of the blind and many more that I'm sure God doesn't aproove of. Yet don't forget God was willing to by pass Sdom's distruction, for just 10 rightious people!! The fact that God will judge everyone is a given (for me at least) and I will have to answer for everything in my life. As we all sin, and I'm part of it, there is no hope for me doing anything to be saved. It is only by God's grace that we are saved in the first place. There is nothing we can do about it except one thing....... have faith in Him. Everything else will stem from that, even God's request to love Him with all our hearts minds and souls, and to love our neighbor as ourselves. Can anyone achieve this without haveing the basic faith in God?! Not sure what you mean by "ingathering"

Shalom ajesuschrist_mathetes, I am at a loss as to the connection of your post to the thread. Could you please enlighten me? This is what I have for Jer 9:24 but let him who boasts boast in this, that he understands and knows me, that I am the LORD who practices steadfast love, justice, and righteousness in the earth. For in these things I delight, declares the LORD." Thanks and blessings

Yes, if it wasn't so sad it could be hylarious Legalism..... is an understatement in this case

Someone collecting news items in Israel came up with the following:- "Thou Shalt not kill fleas on Saturday" (Shmuel Elyahu - head Rabbi of Zfat) Rabi Shlomo Aviner: " If a religious medic sees two heavily wounded people, a woman and a man, he must first attend to the man in order to save his MITZVOT (religious duties)" Rabi Yaacov Yosef says that soldiers in the IDF should NOT eat Russion cooked food. He goes on to explain that as most Russian immigrants are not Jewish, their food is most likely not Kosher. Rabi Ovadya Yosef declares that it is forbidden to read Hebrew news papers in the toilet. Although the papers are not holy, the hebrew language IS, but it's ok to read English news papers there. The Rabi Mordechai Eliyahu makes a special case for dangerous live electrical wires found on the ground on Saturday. You may then phone the elctric company but must do the dialing with a pencil or some other object. The Rabi goes on to remind us we are NOT to use an umbrela on Saturday, even it has been opened on Friday before the Shabat came in. The Rabbinic courts in Haifa recomended to a woman not to vote in elections so that peace at home should be retained. Ovadia Yosef, the head Rabbi of the largest religious poitical party says one must not talk on the phone in the toilet or speak to someone on the other side of the door. Palm computers are used as praying books these days and so Rabi Efraim Zalmanovitz says that ifyou drop a palm computer, you must pick it up and kiss it. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Living in this country for many years, I look in the mirror in the morning and ask myself "Are you sane?" - and I don't know the answer...............

It's all over the media Freedom of speech vs freedom to annihilate countries and support terrorism What do you think?

I shouldn't be duplicating what most people have already said here, yet I find a need to support this thread. We don't all think alike. We don't all agree on any topic. We do need to be able to agree to disagree when that is the case. We need to differentiate between what people say and who they are! and I personally, need this reminder every so often Thank you for this reminder Blessings

Yes there were questions and still are. For instance does the word "Milk" in Hebrew actually mean milk or maybe fat ? (Hebrew for milk and fat are "chalav" and chelev" respectivly) There is a big difference in the meaning depending on this translation alone. As for judges who were consulted... is this scriptural? where can I find it? Blessings