Retrobyter

Shabbat shalom, @Montana Marv. That's what many assume, but in philosophical, logical discussions, this is called a "non sequitur." That's Latin for "it doesn't necessarily follow." Think of the time line and WHEN Yeeshuwa` will be WHERE: When He was saying this to His disciples, "where I am" was right there in Jerusalem in the upper room, having just had His passover meal with them. Yhudah ("Judas") had just left to work out his treachery, and Yeeshuwa` was beginning to feel the weight of what was shortly to come. After He ascended through the clouds into the skies and ariving in the New Jerusalem (His Father's "tent-house") still under construction, "where I am" is indeed in the New Jerusalem, where He said, "I go to prepare a place for you." But, when He "comes again" and returns to earth, "where I am" will be once again in the Land of Israel, possibly back in Jerusalem. He DID NOT SAY that He was taking them back to the New Jerusalem with Him! Those words NEVER left His mouth! So, when He "comes again," THEN "He will receive them unto Himself" and that will be back on the earth again! This process requires their resurrections and their transporting to His presence! If they died anywhere else in the world, as Peter did in Rome and John did on the Isle of Patmos, they would be transported by the "angels" back to meet Him in the air, and go on to Israel from there.

Shabbat shalom, @Alive. Precisely! This is why we NEED the Resurrection! It is the "BLESSED HOPE!" (Titus 2:13). And, it is what we are supposed to be anticipating! Even atheists know Ecclesiastes 9:5 is true, and many of them are COUNTING on it! If there's no resurrection, then they won't have to face God's Judgment and they won't have to stand trial, but ... it SHALL happen as even the unrighteous will stand trial before the Great White Throne! This is the "terror of the Lord" that they will face! Reading on in 2 Corinthians 5, we find ... 2 Corinthians 5:9-11 (KJV) 9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him. 10 For we must ALL appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that EVERY ONE may receive the things [done] in [his] body, according to that he hath done, whether [it be] good or BAD. 11 Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.

Shabbat shalom, @enoob57. This is a popular argument, but Paul didn't say that we would be going to "Heaven" when we were no longer "at home in the body." He just said, we would be "present with the Lord." I don't believe in the continuity of life. When one dies, he dies, just as Adam did! He is without breath and is no longer an "air-breathing creature" -he is no longer a "soul." We wait "asleep" until the Resurrection awakens us. Some call this "soul-sleep." I call it "soul annihilation." Instead, we become "souls" once again when we are awakened, and for us, no time has passed. Suddenly we are in the presence of Yeeshuwa`s messengers ("angels"), and meet Yeeshuwa` in the air, finally "present with the Lord! Furtherfore, the Son of God will transform us into glowing (glorified) bodies and we become MORE than mere "souls" - "air-breathing creatures," - being "soulual" ("natural") bodies, we will be "SPIRITUAL bodies" - "air-BLASTING-creatures," capable of BLOWING LIKE A WIND! HOWEVER, we don't know that this is one's human "body" in this passage; it could be that he was talking about "the body" of the Messiah, that is, "the church," in which one is a member! Try re-reading this passage thinking he was talking about "the body of Christ," instead of one's physical one, and see how it works that way. In Isaiah 66:1 (repeated by Stephen in Acts 7:49), YHWH God said, "הַשָּׁמַיִם כִּסְאִי וְהָאָרֶץ הֲדֹם רַגְלָי" or "Hashshaamayim kiç'iy vhaa'aarets hadom ragliy" translated as "The-skies [are] my-throne, and-the-earth [is] the-stool of-my-feet." He's MUCH BIGGER than that! He's on earth just as He is in the skies, and remember, too, that "the skies" is a dual word that refers to the daytime sky and the nighttime sky, speaking of all one sees in the night - all the stars and galaxies and nebulae! When we read of the New Jerusalem (the "Lamb's Wife") in Revelation 21, we see that it comes down OUT OF THE SKY: Revelation 21:9-10 (KJV) 9 And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, "Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife!" 10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven (Greek: ἐκ τοῦ οὐρανοῦ = "ek tou ouranou" = "out of-the sky") from God, ..." Our eternal home is HERE (after the earth has been renewed after the Fire), the New Jerusalem LANDING upon it! As far as God "the Father is never stated as dwelling on the earth this can only be referring to heaven," read the first few verses of this same chapter in Revelation: Revelation 21:1-4 (KJV) 1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. 2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven (the throne) saying, "Behold, the tabernacle of God (Greek: ἡ σκηνὴ τοῦ θεοῦ = "hee skeenee tou Theou" = "the [Bedouin]-tent of-the God") [is] WITH MEN, and HE WILL DWELL WITH THEM, AND THEY SHALL BE HIS PEOPLE, AND GOD HIMSELF SHALL BE WITH THEM, [AND BE] THEIR GOD. 4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away." Never say "never!"

Shalom, @Diaste. Why is it that people continually think that "Heaven" is a PLACE? The common explanation for a "third heaven" is what C. I. SCOFIELD said in his notes for 2 Corinthians 12:2: "1st heaven, of clouds; 2nd heaven, of stars; 3rd heaven, God's abode." He has NO Scripture backing up this claim! It only SEEMED like he was right, and everybody jumped on the bandwagon! While science was making strides in exploring "outer space" above the atmosphere, Christians were making inroads into accepting that "heaven" was actually "Heaven," a place where God dwelt. Where's the SCRIPTURAL evidence? I looked up EVERY REFERENCE to "heaven," "heavens," and "heavenly" in the Bible. Then, I looked up every Hebrew word and every Greek word that was used for these translations, through the use of Strong's Exhaustive Concordance BY HAND before I even knew about personal computers, when I was in high school (from 1975 through 1976). Phones, short for telephones, were toaster sized contraptions that sat on the desk or hung on the wall! THROUGH CONTEXT, I came up with the truth of their definitions, and the evidence was overwhelming! In both the Hebrew word "שָׁמָיִם" or "shaamaayim," (Genesis 1:6-8, 20) and the Greek word "οὐρανός" or "ouranos" (Matthew 16:1-4), it's conclusively clear that BOTH words mean simply "the sky." As is clear from context in the Hebrew texts, words were added to suggest "outer space," giving "שְׁמֵי הַשָּׁמָיִם" or "shmeey hashaamaayim," "heaven of heavens," and in Greek texts, primariliy those from Paul's writings, a prefix, namely "epi," was added to suggest the same, forming the adjective, "ἐπουράνιος" or "epouranios." I tried everything to get to the same conclusion that C. I. Scofield had come to, and NOTHING was working! I noticed, for instance, that there was "ouranos," "mesouranos," and "epourios," and though MAYBE the "mesouranos," meaning "middle of the sky," might actually refer to the "heaven of stars," and "epouranios" may refer to above that as "God's abode," but, of course, the contexts did not support that theory. Instead, I learned that "mesouranos" was where the birds fly (Revelation 19:17), and "epouranios" was where the sun, moon, and stars were (1 Corinthians 15:40-41)! Then, I read 2 Peter 3:3-13, and I found someone who knew about and shared what the true "third heaven" was: 2 Peter 3:3-13 (KJV) 3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, 4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as [they were] from the beginning of the creation. 5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: 6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: 7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. 8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day [is] with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. 10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 11 [Seeing] then [that] all these things shall be dissolved, what manner [of persons] ought ye to be in [all] holy conversation and godliness, 12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? 13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness. He presents the picture that there are THREE AGES, with the first two ending in cataclysms, the first one of excessive water, and the second one of excessive fire: So, I will take Peter's word over that of C. I. Scofield. God doesn''t have "an abode"; He doesn't NEED "an abode!" He is OMNIPRESENT throughout His Creation we call the "Universe!" He knows the least little neutrino or subatomic particle or photon in EVERY galaxy that exists! If one believes that He "abides" ANYWHERE, then he or she has too small a view of God!

Shalom, @enoob57. The words "thou" and "thee" and "thy" and "thine" are SINGULAR, second-person pronouns in Elizabethan English, and the words "ye" and "you" and "your" and "yours" are PLURAL, second-person pronouns. This is information, btw, that is LOST in modern translations of Scripture, since we no longer use the singular forms in common English, and we've reduced the plural to "you" and "your" and "yours." Now, we must get the difference between direct address to singular or plural by the context in which we find the "you," "your," or "yours." Sometimes, that's difficult to do in the contexts of the Bible. This is one of the reasons I prefer the KJV. Thus, this was addressed SOLELY to Yochanan ("John") as he was snatched away to view revelation about the future. (It's not "the Rapture.") No one else is going up to "Heaven" with John, at the same time! The natural question would be "'the throne was set' UPON WHAT?" Anything that has mass and is within the gravitational field of the earth is going to be pulled to earth by gravity. Things can't sit upon clouds, for clouds are simply mists that are formed above the dew point. This level (which is variable, depending on humidity, temperature and pressure) is called the "lifting condensation level (LCL)." That's why clouds appear flat on the bottom. Things don't naturally float in the sky, unless they are supported by helium balloons (as in the cartoon movie "Up"), or are flying with wings or propellers. Even objects that are in orbit are not floating there. They are perpetually falling, but moving so fast that the earth falls away from them at the same rate by the curvature of the earth, such that they are constantly falling to the earth and constantly MISSING IT! This is what an "orbit" is. Geosynchronous orbits are such orbits that are at the particular height to be falling to earth and missing it in the same direction as the earth spins, and at the same speed as the earth turns. Thus, they can appear to be generally in the same spot whenever one looks up to find them. This is important to modern communication satellites. Thus, radio listening devices can be trained to their exact location. Another possibility is that this throne is set in the "heavens" - in the "skies" - by sitting upon a MOUNTAIN (such as Mount Tsiyown or "Zion") which has a top "among the clouds," and one must look up to see it when at lower elevations.

Shalom, @Revelation Man. Sorry, but "ekkleesia" (spelled epsilon, kappa, kappa, lambda, eta, sigma, iota, alpha) means a "called-out" assembly. The word "sooma" (spelled sigma-omega-mu-alpha) means "body." Paul made an ANALOGY of the ekkleesia to the sooma, and its members to members of the body. However, this was not a UNIVERSAL analogy, but was a LOCAL analogy: See, within each separate group, they were to work together and help one another to maintain the group's health. Therefore, each separate group would each work together to support all the members OF THAT GROUP! It was never intended to be expanded to all the groups as though they were one! That's my point: They were not ONE "ekkleesia"; they were "ekkleesiai" (the plural of "ekkleesia")! I use the analogy to say, "It's hard for a finger in Albuquerque to scratch a nose in Kalamazoo!" That's NOT what Paul intended in this analogy. He was talking about a LOCAL church, specifically the church at Korinth! Yes, He is our High Priest forever after the order of Malkhiy-Tsedeq, "My-King-of-Righteousness," but one should NOT make the mistake that, just because He is seated on His Father's right hand side, that He is currently reigning in "Heaven!" I agree. Well, we are to worship God together. We're not separate entities; however, we're not together called "the church!" We who are Gentiles are graffed into the Root of David, which makes us Jews through the Messiah! We are ADOPTED into His family, even though they were born as Gentiles! Wait a minute! Didn't you just get done saying that "It's not another Entity?" Of course God can give two different people two different callings; however, who says that we are two "different peoples?" Well, from my perspective, I'm not the one who is attempting to "mold everything to fit my understandings and beliefs." That challenge belongs to one who reads into the Scriptures things that aren't said by the author or Author, like "taking us to Heaven when we die"! 1) I quote a lot of Scripture to be sure that the reader understand that it is NOT "out of its context." I bring the context WITH the verses needed! 2) I don't misunderstand the passages, and if there's a question with what words may mean, I go to the source and look up the words! 3) Well, I don't think that's something I do; so, let's investigate your claim, shall we? Regarding Paul's Epistle to the Ephesians, I think I've only used chapter 2, and again, I wrote out the WHOLE context. We are ONE NEW MAN in the Messiah! I don't quite understand your last sentence in this portion. Would you care to rephrase it for me, please? No, the 144,000 are MUSICIANS and SINGERS! Look more carefully to the words in Revelation 14:1-5. They are not just any people; they are people who can play instruments and sing! It's going to be a massive CHOIR!

Shalom, @Keras. No, but it HELPS! Look, the deeper one wants to go into the Scriptures, the deeper must be his or her knowledge of the languages used in writing the Bible. One must also come to a knowledge of the culture of the Israelites and the TIMES in which they lived, when the book being studied was written. That is the historical, cultural context that some ignore. Look again. The worst perpetrators of error and confusion are those who make unsubstantiated claims and cannot back them up with Scripture! The whole idea that the "'seventieth week of Daniel 9:27' IS the 'tribulation period'" was one of the original hoaxes of the 20th Century! A second hoax is that "the 'prince that shall come' IS 'the Antichrist'." This took the Messiah (who was ALREADY in Daniel 9:27) out of Daniel 9:27, WHICH, by the way, shows that HALF of the seventieth Seven is already FULFILLED! We are only waiting for the delay to be over "when the times of the Gentiles is fulfilled" and Yeeshuwa` returns, starting up the clock on the second half of the seventieth Seven, as He once again offers the Kingdom to Israel, starting with the Jews. I do thank the LORD for the Bible in our own language and that He has protected it down through the years; however, that doesn't relinguish the responsibility that teachers of that Bible have to know PRECISELY what the truth is that he or she is supposed to be teaching. There are NUANCES to the words used that aren't fully translated in the modern versions of the Bible. That doesn't make our Bible wrong; it simply means that there are facets of the Bible that may elude detection otherwise, because of language barriers. Many Bible teachers are OBLIVIOUS to the facts of Scripture BECAUSE they haven't digged into it enough! Things found within the tenses of the verbs, for instance, and the case of the nouns and pronouns that are used are not found within lexicons and dictionaries. One should know what the difference between the genitive case and the ablative case is, for instance, when determining what an author is trying to say by looking at the Greek of a word! One should know what how the Hebrew combines suffixes and some prefixes to form number and gender for a VERB as well tenses and that's equally true for nouns and adjectives! We can get the general meaning of a text by simply reading its English translation; however, to understand the specifics, sometimes we must go back to the original languages to get the deeper meanings of a context. And, refute it all you want, but I've looked at the Hebrew, and it MUST be the Messiah that is meant by the "he" in Daniel 9:27. AND, it FITS! For instance, why did Yeeshuwa` go through all the abominations of the scribes and Pharisees, and then make this statement? Matthew 23:37-39 (KJV) 37 "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, [thou] that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under [her] wings, and ye would not! 38 "Behold, your house is left unto you DESOLATE. 39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, "'Blessed [is] he that cometh in the name of the LORD.'" (Psalm 118:26)

Shalom, @WilliamL, and Shalom, @Keras. So, now it has come down to an understanding of GaVriy'eel's (Gabriel's) words to Daniel in Daniel 9:24-27. Keras, the study of Hebrew and the "ancient words" is NOT a "dead-end rabbit trail!" It's where one will derive the actual meaning of the words one reads, WHATEVER translation of the Hebrew text one may be reading! It's just that most Gentile believers do NOT take the time to LEARN HEBREW! WilliamL, you have a detailed investigation into the Hebrew, but not from a Hebrew's understanding of the words. "SIBKIS," Charles "Tremendous" Jones used to say: "See It Big, Keep It Simple." This messenger from God was sent to an intelligent man who was made a eunuch in Babylon and is now living a useful life in Persia. As a child, Daniel was born a Hebrew who had learned Hebrew and was recognized as someone who could be useful, when he was captured. His importance grew as His wisdom and godliness were recognized. From a personal view, Daniel was a man who feared YHWH God and He could read and study "the books," particularly that of the prophet Yirmeyahuw ("Jeremiah"), which he either obtained and preserved, or made a copy of it, or had a copy made. Without chapter and verse numbers, he was reading through the scroll of the prophet and discovered the passages we now mark as Jeremiah 25:11-12 and Jeremiah 29:10, learning that the Captivity would be limited to seventy years, if they returned to YHWH God. Jeremiah 25:8-14 (KJV) 8 'Therefore thus saith the LORD of hosts; '"Because ye have not heard my words, 9 Behold, I will send and take all the families of the north," saith the LORD, "and Nebuchadrezzar the king of Babylon, my servant, and will bring them against this land, and against the inhabitants thereof, and against all these nations round about, and will utterly destroy them, and make them an astonishment, and an hissing, and perpetual desolations. 10 Moreover I will take from them the voice of mirth, and the voice of gladness, the voice of the bridegroom, and the voice of the bride, the sound of the millstones, and the light of the candle. 11 And this whole land shall be a desolation, [and] an astonishment; and these nations shall serve the king of Babylon SEVENTY YEARS. 12 "'And it shall come to pass, WHEN SEVENTY YEARS ARE ACCOMPLISHED, [that] I will punish the king of Babylon, and that nation," saith the LORD, "for their iniquity, and the land of the Chaldeans, and will make it perpetual desolations. 13 And I will bring upon that land all my words which I have pronounced against it, [even] all that is written in this book, which Jeremiah hath prophesied against all the nations. 14 For many nations and great kings shall serve themselves of them also: and I will recompense them according to their deeds, and according to the works of their own hands." Daniel 29:1-14 (KJV) 1 Now these [are] the words of the letter that Jeremiah the prophet sent from Jerusalem unto the residue of the elders which were carried away captives, and to the priests, and to the prophets, and to all the people whom Nebuchadnezzar had carried away captive from Jerusalem to Babylon; 2 (After that Jeconiah the king, and the queen, and the eunuchs, the princes of Judah and Jerusalem, and the carpenters, and the smiths, were departed from Jerusalem;) 3 By the hand of Elasah the son of Shaphan, and Gemariah the son of Hilkiah, (whom Zedekiah king of Judah sent unto Babylon to Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon) saying, 4 "Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel, "'Unto all that are carried away captives, whom I have caused to be carried away from Jerusalem unto Babylon; 5 Build ye houses, and dwell [in them]; and plant gardens, and eat the fruit of them; 6 Take ye wives, and beget sons and daughters; and take wives for your sons, and give your daughters to husbands, that they may bear sons and daughters; that ye may be increased there, and not diminished. 7 And seek the peace of the city whither I have caused you to be carried away captives, and pray unto the LORD for it: for in the peace thereof shall ye have peace.'" 8 "For thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; "'Let not your prophets and your diviners, that [be] in the midst of you, deceive you, neither hearken to your dreams which ye cause to be dreamed. 9 For they prophesy falsely unto you in my name: I have not sent them,' saith the LORD. 10 "For thus saith the LORD, "'That AFTER SEVENTY YEARS BE ACCOMPLISHED AT BABYLON I will visit you, and perform my good word toward you, in causing you to return to this place. 11 For I know the thoughts that I think toward you,' saith the LORD, 'thoughts of peace, and not of evil, to give you an expected end. 12 Then shall ye call upon me, and ye shall go and pray unto me, and I will hearken unto you. 13 And ye shall seek me, and find [me], when ye shall search for me with all your heart. 14 And I will be found of you,' saith the LORD: 'and I will turn away your captivity, and I will gather you from all the nations, and from all the places whither I have driven you,' saith the LORD; 'and I will bring you again into the place whence I caused you to be carried away captive.'" Daniel was confessing his sins and the sins of his people, when GaVriy'eel (גַּבְרִיאֵל) was sent, and He said this, in verses 24-27: 24 שָׁבֻעִים שִׁבְעִים נֶחְתַּךְ עַל־עַמְּךָ וְעַל־עִיר קָדְשֶׁךָ לְכַלֵּא הַפֶּשַׁע וּלְהָתֵם חַטָּאת וּלְכַפֵּרעָוֺן וּלְהָבִיא צֶדֶק עֹלָמִים וְלַחְתֹּם חָזוֹן וְנָבִיא וְלִמְשֹׁחַ קֹדֶשׁ קָדָשִׁים׃ 25 וְתֵדַע וְתַשְׂכֵּל מִן־מֹצָא דָבָר לְהָשִׁיב וְלִבְנוֹת יְרוּשָׁלִַם עַד־מָשִׁיחַ נָגִיד שָׁבֻעִים שִׁבְעָה וְשָׁבֻעִים שִׁשִּׁים וּשְׁנַיִם תָּשׁוּב וְנִבְנְתָה רְחוֹב וְחָרוּץ וּבְצוֹק הָעִתִּים׃ 26 וְאַחֲרֵי הַשָּׁבֻעִים שִׁשִּׁים וּשְׁנַיִם יִכָּרֵת מָשִׁיחַ וְאֵין לוֹ וְהָעִיר וְהַקֹּדֶשׁ יַשְׁחִית עַם נָגִידהַבָּא וְקִצּוֹ בַשֶּׁטֶף וְעַד קֵץ מִלְחָמָה נֶחֱרֶצֶת שֹׁמֵמוֹת׃ 27 וְהִגְבִּיר בְּרִית לָרַבִּים שָׁבוּעַ אֶחָד וַחֲצִי הַשָּׁבוּעַ יַשְׁבִּית זֶבַח וּמִנְחָה וְעַל כְּנַף שִׁקּוּצִיםמְשֹׁמֵם וְעַד־כָּלָה וְנֶחֱרָצָה תִּתַּךְ עַל־שֹׁמֵם׃ פ Here are the transliterations of these verses into English characters: 24 ShaaVu`iym shiV`iym naachtakh `al-`amkhaa v`al-`iyr qaadshekhaa lkhallee' hapesha` uwlhaateem chaTTaa't uwlkhapeer `aavown uwlhaaViy' tsedeq `olaamiym vlachtom chaazown vnaaViy' vlimshoach qodesh qaadaashiym: 25 Vteeda` vtaskeel min-motsaa' daaVaar lhaashiyV vliVnowt yruwshaalaim `ad-maashiyach naagiyd shaaVu`iym shiV`aah vshaaVu`iym shishshiym usshnayim vniVntaah rchowV vchaaruwts uwVtsowq haa`ittiym: 26 V'achareey hashshaaVu`iym shishshiym uwshnayim yikaareet maashiyach v'eeyn low vhaa`iyr vhaqqodesh yashchiyt `am naagiyd tabaa' vqitstsow bashsheTef v`ad qeets milchaamaah necheretset shomeemowt: 27 Vhigbiyr briyt laarabiym shaaVuwa` 'echaad vachatsiy hashshaaVuwa` yashbiyt zeVach uwminchaah v`al knaf shiqquwtsiym mshomeem v`ad-kaalaah vnecheraatsaah titakh `al-shomeem: F And, a word-for-word translation follows: 24 "Seventy sevens are-determined upon-your-people and-upon-city your-holy to-finish the-transgression and-to-make-an-end of-sin and-to-atonement of-iniquityand-to-usher-in righteousness of-ages and-to-seal-up vision and-prophecy and-to-anoint holy of-holies: 25 "And-know and-understand from-issuing of-word to-restore and-to-build Jerusalem unto-Messiah prince sevens seven and-sevens sixty and-two and-shall-be-built street and-wall and-in-distress the-times: 26 "And-after the-sevens sixty and-two shall-be-cut-off Messiah and-not to-him and-the-city and-the-holy shall-be-destroyed [by]-a-people of-a-prince that-shall-come and-its-end shall-be in-a-flood and-unto an-end of-the-war are-determined desolations: 27 "And-he-shall-strengthen a-covenant to-many a-seven one and-in-middle of-the-seven he-shall-cause-to-cease sacrifice and-gift and-upon a-spread-out-wing of-abominations he-shall-make-desolate and-unto-end and-that-determined shall-be-poured upon-desolate." It's important to understand that there are NO subjects in verse 27 for the verbs in verse 27. In that sense, verse 27 is a CONTINUATION from verse 26, as we must go back to verse 26 for a subject-noun antecedent that will match the verbs which require a masculine, singular, personal noun. The problem arises when one understands that many Gentile believers have believed the antecedent to be the "prince that shall come," or "naagiyd tabaa'"; HOWEVER, the Hebrew shows us that this is THE SECOND NOUN of a noun construct state where the second noun would be translated into English with an "of" in front of it. The phrase is "`am naagiyd tabaa'" and, like in English, the second noun of the noun construct state (in English the object of the preposition "of") cannot be the subject of a main verb in the sentence! So, the conclusion is that "the prince that shall come" CANNOT be the subject of the verbs in verse 27. This forces one to go back farther into the verse for the next masculine, singular, personal noun, "Messiah." Thus, it is the "Messiah" that is the antecedent of the verbs in verse 27. So, the correct substitutions would be... 27 And-the-Messiah-shall-strengthen a-covenant to-many a-seven one and-in-middle of-the-seven the-Messiah-shall-cause-to-cease sacrifice and-gift and-upon a-spread-out-wing of-abominations the-Messiah-shall-make-desolate and-unto-end and-that-determined shall-be-poured upon-desolate. And, each of these are shown in the New Testament: "And-the-Messiah-shall-strengthen a-covenant to-many a-seven one" was satisfied simply by HIM BEING BORN AND ALL THINGS PROPHESIED ABOUT HIM BEING FULFILLED! The "covenant" was the DAVIDIC Covenant, which the same man GaVriy'eel ("Gabriel") quoted to Miryam ("Mary") in Luke 1:30-33! Like His predecessor David before Him, the Jews - the children of Yhudah, His own tribe - should have made Him their king for a seven, before He became the King of all Israel. The portion "and-in-middle of-the-seven the-Messiah-shall-cause-to-cease sacrifice and-gift" was fulfilled by the fact that He was crucified and the veil in the Temple was torn in half from the top to the bottom, signifying God's satisfaction with the sacrifice He made; no more sacrifices or gifts for sins were needed. The final portion "and-upon a-spread-out-wing of-abominations the-Messiah-shall-make-desolate" was fulfilled before His crucifixion when He pronounced them "desolate" in Matthew 23:38.

Shalom, again, @Excalibur. The short answers are ... (1) Read the all caps of Matthew 25:31-36 (KJV) 31 "WHEN THE SON OF MAN SHALL COME IN HIS GLORY, and all the holy angels with him, THEN SHALL HE SIT UPON THE THRONE OF HIS GLORY: 32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth [his] sheep from the goats: 33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. 34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, "'Come, ye blessed of my Father, INHERIT THE KINGDOM prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: 36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.' " (2) "None." Actually, in a longer answer with explanation, it can be shown that the Roman Empire hasn't truly died off, yet. We're still in it with our governments and means of control over the peoples of Europe and the New World. It's merely faded to invisibility, having been called the North Atlantic Treaty Organization and of late the European Union and the United Nations; however, it will become noticeable once again, and soon it will be in charge again! We're still part of the feet of iron mixed with clay, and we don't adhere very well together. Over the last few decades, many parallels have been drawn between the old Roman Empire and our own United States of America. And, the Kingdom that God sets up was DELAYED as per Daniel 9:27 and Daniel 12:1-3. Daniel 9:27 (KJV) 27 And he (the Messiah of verse 26) shall confirm the (Davidic) covenant with many for one week (Luke 1:30-33; 2 Samuel 2:11; 7:1-17; 1 Kings 2:11): and in the midst of the week (3.5 years, confirm with harmonies of the Gospels) he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease (Matthew 27:51; Mark 15:38; Luke 23:45; Hebrews 10:5-20), and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate (Matthew 23:1-38), even until the consummation (Matthew 23:39), and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate (Jeremiah 30:1-24). Daniel 12:1-3 (KJV) 1 And at that time shall Michael ("Who-is-like-God") stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation [even] to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. 2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame [and] everlasting contempt. 3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever. Recognizing that the last few verses of Daniel 11 are speaking about Herod the Great and the battle between Anthony/Cleopatra and Rome and how it influenced Herod, verse 1 will begin with the introduction of the Messiah Yeeshuwa` until the "time of trouble" has begun. Verse 2 speaks of the Resurrections of life and of the second death, which sandwich the 1,000 years of HaSatan's temporary incarceration in the Abyss. But, the Resurrection to everlasting life comes when the Messiah Returns (1 Corinthians 15:23; Revelation 20:1-6), at his sentence's beginning, and the Resurrection to shame and everlasting contempt is after he is released (1 Corinthians 15:24; Revelation 20:7-15).

Shalom, @Excalibur. Sorry, but this is a misdirection. The FACT is that He has NOT set up His Kingdom as yet! I'll say it again: If the Messiah (the Christ) is currently reigning, then He would be the WEAKEST King there has ever been! But, He has not even BEGUN to reign, yet! It will be QUITE obvious when He does! Look, we can CONSIDER ourselves today to be His FUTURE subjects, and that's good! But, one should not confuse this with His actual Kingdom! That doesn't begin UNTIL He returns! THEN, we will ACTUALLY be His subjects, and receive the Kingdom He has promised! Again, trust Yeeshuwa`s own words: Luke 19:11-28 (KJV) 11 And as they heard these things, he added and spake a parable, because he was nigh to Jerusalem, and because they thought that the kingdom of God should immediately appear. 12 He said therefore, "A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return. 13 And he called his ten servants, and delivered them ten pounds, and said unto them, "'Occupy (Trade with this) till I come.' 14 "But his citizens hated him, and sent a message after him, saying, "'We will not have THIS [man] to reign over us!' 15 "And it came to pass, that WHEN HE WAS RETURNED, HAVING RECEIVED THE KINGDOM, THEN he commanded these servants to be called unto him, to whom he had given the money, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading. 16 "Then came the first, saying, "'Lord, thy pound hath gained ten pounds.' 17 "And he said unto him, "'Well, thou good servant: because thou hast been faithful in a very little, have thou authority over ten cities.' 18 "And the second came, saying, "'Lord, thy pound hath gained five pounds.' 19 "And he said likewise to him, "'Be thou also over five cities.' 20 "And another came, saying, "'Lord, behold, [here is] thy pound, which I have kept laid up in a napkin: 21 For I feared thee, because thou art an austere man: thou takest up that thou layedst not down, and reapest that thou didst not sow.' 22 "And he saith unto him, "'Out of thine own mouth will I judge thee, [thou] wicked servant! Thou knewest that I was an austere man, taking up that I laid not down, and reaping that I did not sow: 23 Wherefore then gavest not thou my money into the bank, that at my coming I might have required mine own with usury (interest)?' 24 "And he said unto them that stood by, "'Take from him the pound, and give [it] to him that hath ten pounds.' 25 "(And they said unto him, "'Lord, he [already] HATH ten pounds!') 26 "'For I say unto you, That unto every one which hath shall be given; and from him that hath not, even that he hath shall be taken away from him. 27 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and SLAY [them] before me!' " 28 And when he had thus spoken, he went before, ascending up to Jerusalem. They even thought His Kingdom would appear after His Resurrection! Acts 1:1-11 (KJV) 1 The former treatise have I made, O Theophilus ("Friend of God"), of all that Jesus began both to do and teach, 2 Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen: 3 To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God: 4 And, being assembled together with [them], commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but "wait for the promise of the Father, which," [saith he], "ye have heard of me. 5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence." 6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, "LORD, WILT THOU AT THIS TIME RESTORE AGAIN THE KINGDOM TO ISRAEL?" 7 And he said unto them, "IT IS NOT FOR YOU TO KNOW the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power. 8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth." 9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. 10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; 11 Which also said, "Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven."

Shalom, @Excalibur. No, friend. Yeeshuwa` COMES BACK to reign. THAT'S when God's final kingdom will begin. Trust the Messiah Himself when He said, Matthew 25:31 (KJV) 31 "When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, THEN shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:..."

Shalom, @Montana Marv. Oh, I agree with you that the "Beast" is an "individual, a person, a living being, a person demanding worship." And, it may seem only to be a case of semantics, but he should NOT be called "the Antichrist!" The word "antichrist" is not a NAME; it's an ATTITUDE that's been around since the First Century A.D! To know that it's still prevalent today, simply ask people this question: "Do you believe that the Christ - the Messiah of God - is going to reign upon the earth or does He reign in Heaven?" If their answer is the second, they also have the spirit of "antichrist" - being "against the Messiah."

Shalom, @Excalibur. While I consider myself to be a futurist, that is a premillennialist, I do NOT believe in a "future tribulation." I believe it can be shown that the "tribulation" - not being a 7-year period - has already started, and we are IN IT NOW. It's more of a 2000-year period and is also called "the Time of Jacob's Trouble.," and "the Times of the Gentiles." (Some call it the "Church Age.") Having already started, we have missed the beginning of it, and even the middle of it! We are actually anticipating the Second Coming, when the Messiah Yeeshuwa` returns. That makes me a "post-tribulational rapturist" of sorts, although I don't believe He "takes us to Heaven" at all. Instead, He takes us THROUGH the heavens - the skies - to His Land, the Land of Israel. So, we aren't "raptured to Heaven" but rather are "gathered to the Son," "to meet Him in the air," and go with Him as He returns to His homeland to reclaim His own Land. The "antichrist" is a SPIRIT - an ATTITUDE - of being "against the Messiah," which has been going on since the First Century, according to John in ... 1 John 4:3 (KJV) 3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and EVEN NOW ALREADY IS IT IN THE WORLD. In the translation of this verse, we kinda got the verb in the wrong place (which is a common error in translation); it is rather that one doesn't "confess that Yeeshuwa` (Jesus)" IS "the Christ (the MESSIAH) come in the flesh." In Greek, less emphasis is put on word order when the meaning of things is found more in the cases of nouns and adjectives and the tenses of the verbs and adverbs. Here's the Greek of this verse to confirm what I've said: 4:3 καὶ πᾶν πνεῦμα ὃ μὴ ὁμολογεῖ τὸν Ἰησοῦν Χριστὸν ἐν σαρκὶ ἐληλυθότα ἐκ τοῦ θεοῦ οὐκ ἔστιν· καὶ τοῦτό ἐστιν τὸ τοῦ ἀντιχρίστου ὃ ἀκηκόατε ὅτι ἔρχεται καὶ νῦν ἐν τῷ κόσμῳ ἐστὶν ἤδη. Transliterated, 4:3 Kai pan pneuma ho mee homologei ton Ieesoun Christon en sarki eleeluthota ek tou Theou ouk estin; kai touto estin to tou antichristou ho akeekoate hoti erchetai kai nun en too kosmoo estin eedee. Translated word-for-word: 4:3 And every spirit/attitude the-one not agreeing-with the Yeeshuwa` Messiah in flesh was-come from the God not is; and that is the-one of-the-against-Messiah the-one ye-have-heard that shall-come and now in the world is already. I give credence to "sola scriptura," and each reformer had their own part to play in history in the recovery of God's Word to His children; however, the papacy was only a PART of the "spirit of antichrist." There shall yet come a "man against the Torah" who shall come from the Jews and attempt to lead them away from God's Word, and there shall be a "Beast" who reigns ruthlessly over a people in the future, but properly he should not be called "the Antichrist," even though he will agree and have that spirit - that attitude - of being against YHWH'S Messiah. Whether the "man against the Torah" and the "Beast" are the same person, it's possible, but we'll have to wait and see. For me, the "jury is still out."

Shalom, @Excalibur. I'm not sure about everyone, but I am.

Shalom, @Revelation Man. As promised, I'll now complete my answer to this post: First, there is no such entity as "The Church!" Too many people have this concept that, somehow, God has built for His Son another entity comparable to the children of Israel. They are "The CHURCHES," plural, in the New Testament, Αἱ ἐκκλησίαι, or "Hai ekkleesiai," in Greek! Now, Israel IS INDEED the "original Bride." However, those who were "in time past Gentiles in the flesh" are now "fellowcitizens WITH the saints (the holy ones of Israel)!" We don't supercede the children of Israel, nor do we replace them! But, we also are not separate from them! Paul said to the Gentiles at Ephesus, Ephesians 2:11-22 (KJV) 11 Wherefore remember, that ye [being] in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; 12 That at that time ye were without Cbrist (outside of the Messiah), being aliens from the commonwealth (citizenship) of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without (outside of) God in the world: 13 BUT NOW in Christ Jesus (the Messiah Yeeshuwa`) ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh (close) by the blood of Christ (of the Messiah). 14 For he (the Messiah) is our peace, WHO HATH MADE BOTH ONE, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition [between us]; 15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, [even] the law of commandments [contained] in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain (two) ONE NEW MAN, [so] making peace; 16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in ONE BODY by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: 17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh. 18 For through him we BOTH have access by one Spirit unto the Father. 19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but FELLOWCITIZENS WITH the saints (the holy ones), and of the household of God; 20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner [stone] (the capstone); 21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an (ONE) holy temple in the Lord: 22 In whom ye also are builded TOGETHER for an habitation of God through the Spirit. This is why I turned to the Messianic congregations! They understand this, and we are Jews and Gentiles in the Messiah worshipping together in one ekkleesia, one "called-out" gathering! Have you considered where in Scriptures the term "the bride of Christ" is used? There are only THREE locations: Ephesians 5:23; Revelation 19:7; and Revelation 21:9: Now, before I quote these passages, it's important to remember that the Greek language has some "fatal flaws"; namely, it has no true "H" letter nor does it have a "Y" letter, and just for good measure, it also doesn't have a true "V" or a "W," either! When a word in Hebrew began with a "Y" - a yod, the letter "I" - iota - was substituted instead, for in certain conditions, it SOUNDED similar to a "Y." The "H" was a SOUND that one made when a word beginning with a vowel was given if the rough breathing mark (a backward apostrophe) was attached to the beginning vowel, such as in the case of "Υἱός μου εἶ σύ" (Acts 13:33) or "Huios mou ei su," translated word-for-word as "Son of-me art thou." --> "Thou art my Son." The "V" or "W" sound was sometimes articulated with an upsilon, as in "David" ("Δαυεὶδ / Δαυὶδ" in NA27), and sometimes with a beta ("Δαβίδ" in TR). So, the Greek language was INCAPABLE of transliterating the Tetragrammaton, "YHWH!" They also had no true capital letters as we have today. While they did have "miniscule" and "capital" letters, they used them interchangeably, without the same import that we have given to our capital letters today. Some manuscripts were written in ALL capital letters! Some were written in ALL miniscule letters! There was no convention to the usage of capital letters. So, instead of transliteration, they translated the Tetragrammaton into "κύριος," such as in ... Matthew 4:10 KJV - 10 Then saith Jesus unto him, "Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, 'Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.'" 4:10 τότε λέγει αὐτῷ ὁ Ἰησοῦς Ὕπαγε Σατανᾶ· γέγραπται γάρ, Κύριον τὸν θεόν σου προσκυνήσεις καὶ αὐτῷ μόνῳ λατρεύσεις. 4:10 Tote legei autoo ho Ieesous, "Hupage, Satana; gegraptai gar, 'Kurion ton Theon sou proskuneeseis kai autoo monoo latreuseis.'" 4:10 Then said to-him the Yeeshuwa`, "Go-away, Enemy; it-is-written for, 'To-Lord the God of-thee bend-the-knee and to-Him only thou-shalt-give-service.'" Luke 4:8 KJV - 8 And Jesus answered and said unto him, "Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, 'Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.'" 4:8 καὶ ἀποκριθεὶς αὐτῷ εἶπεν ὁ Ἰησοῦς Ὑπαγε ὀπίσω μου, Σατανᾶ· Γέγραπται γὰρ προσκυνήσεις Κύριον τὸν θεόν σου καὶ αὐτῷ μόνῳ λατρεύσεις. 4:8 Kai apokritheis auto eipen ho Ieesous, "Hupage opisoo mou, Satana; Gegraptai gar, 'Proskuneeseis Kurion ton Theon sou kai autoo monoo latreuseis.'" 4:8 And answered to-him saying the Yeeshuwa`, "Go-away behind me, Enemy; It-is-written for, 'Bend-the-knee to-Lord the God of-thee and to-Him only thou-shalt-give-service.'" In both accounts, Yeeshuwa` was quoting from Deuteronomy 6:13, where Moses said, Deuteronomy 6:13 (KJV) 13 "Thou shalt fear the LORD thy God, and serve him, and shalt swear by his name." אֶת־יְהוָה אֱלֹהֶיךָ תִּירָא וְאֹתוֹ תַעֲבֹד וּבִשְׁמוֹ תִּשָּׁבֵעַ׃ 6:13 "'Aat-YHWH 'Eloheykhaa tiyraa' v'otow ta`aVod uwVishmow tishshaaVee`a:" 6:13 "D.O.->YHWH thy-God thou-shalt-revere/fear and-for-Him-(singular) thou-shalt-serve and-in-His-name thou-shalt-sware/make-a-solemn-promise:" My point is this: The Greek translators who translated the Hebrew/Aramaic to Greek for the New Testament not only translated "'Adown," 'Adoniy," and "'Adonaay" into "Kurios" but they also translated "YHWH" into "Kurios." That doesn't make them the same Person; it simply shows the same RESPECT! Even Sarah is said to have shown that respect to Abraham, her husband! For she called her husband "וַאדֹנִי," or "va'doniy,"meaning "and-my-lord" in Genesis 18:12, as noted in 1 Peter 3:6 as "κύριον," the accusative case of "κύριος." So, bearing this in mind, here are the contexts of each verse: Ephesians 5:22-33 (KJV) 22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. 23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church (the "called-out" gathering): and he is "the saviour (Rescuer) of the body." 24 Therefore as the church (the "called-out" gathering) is subject unto Christ (the Messiah), so [let] the wives [be] to their own husbands in every thing. 25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ (the Messiah) also loved the church (the "called-out" gathering), and gave himself for it; 26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, 27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church (a glowing, "called-out" gathering), not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish. 28 So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself. 29 For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord (the Master) the church (the "called-out" gathering): 30 For we are members OF HIS BODY, OF HIS FLESH, AND OF HIS BONES. 31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh. 32 This is a great mystery (secret): but I speak concerning Christ (the Messiah) and the church (the "called-out" gathering). 33 Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife [see] that she reverence [her] husband. The major problem with the interpretation of this passage is that Gentile Christians FORGET how "ekkleesia" is used in Acts 7:38 where Stephen was talking about Moses: Acts 7:38 (KJV) 38 "This is he (Moses), that was in the church (Greek: τῇ ἐκκλησίᾳ = "tee ekkleesia" = "the called-out gathering") in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:" Revelation 19:1-16 (KJV) 1 And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven (in the sky), saying, "Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God: 2 For true and righteous [are] his judgments: for he hath judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand." 3 And again they said, "Alleluia. And her smoke rose up for ever and ever." 4 And the four and twenty elders and the four beasts fell down and worshipped God that sat on the throne, saying, "Amen; Alleluia." 5 And a voice came out of the throne, saying, "Praise our God, all ye his servants, and ye that fear him, both small and great." 6 And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, "Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth. 7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and HIS WIFE HATH MADE HERSELF READY. 8 And TO HER was granted that SHE should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white": for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints. 9 And he saith unto me, "Write, 'Blessed [are] they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb.'" And he saith unto me, "These are the true sayings of God." 10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, "See [thou do it] not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy." 11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him [was] called "Faithful" and "True," and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. 12 His eyes [were] as a flame of fire, and on his head [were] many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. 13 And he [was] clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called "The Word of God." 14 And the armies [which were] in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. 15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 16 And he hath on [his] vesture and on his thigh a name written, "KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS." Here's verses 7 and 8 in the Greek: 19:7 χαίρωμεν καὶ ἀγαλλιῶμεθα, καὶ δῶμεν τὴν δόξαν αὐτῷ ὅτι ἦλθεν ὁ γάμος τοῦ ἀρνίου καὶ ἡ γυνὴ αὐτοῦ ἡτοίμασενἑαυτήν 19:8 καὶ ἐδόθη αὐτῇ ἵνα περιβάληται βύσσινον καθαρόν· καὶ λαμπρὸν τὸ γὰρ βύσσινον τὰ δικαιώματα ἐστίν τῶν ἁγίων Why do we assume here that this is more than one person? Verses 7 and 8 are clearly in the feminine SINGULAR! Sorry, but He "COMES AGAIN" BEFORE He "receives us to Himself." And, again, He DIDN'T SAY He was taking us back to His Father's House! There's that assumption again! His Father's House, His Father's "tent" (Greek: σκηνὴ = "skeenee" = "Bedouin tent," same as Abraham had in Hebrews 11:9, translated as "tabernacle" in Revelation 21:3) doesn't get here until AFTER He has reigned for a thousand years while haSatan is locked away and AFTER the Great White Throne Judgment has occurred, and the New Earth and New Sky are re-made! Again, the assumption is implied. He's not taking us ANYWHERE, except to where HE is going, to His homeland of Israel, where His Father has written His Name upon the mountains of Israel! ALWAYS check a context for relevance! To whom was Isaiah 26:20 written? WHEN was it written? What were the background circumstances for the text being written? One cannot just assume that one can take a verse out of context and apply it to whatever suites him! That's just as bad as allegorical interpretation. "The Feast of Trumpets" is Ro'sh haShanah - the "Head of the Year," or the Jewish New Year. One can ask what it commemorates, and one will get: "Rosh HaShanah, the Jewish New Year, commemorates the creation of the world by God and the anniversary of the creation of Adam and Eve. It's also a time of reflection, repentance, and looking forward to the coming year.The holiday marks the beginning of the Days of Awe, a 10-day period leading up to Yom Kippur." And, Yom Kippur is the Day of Atonement when God pushed the judgment on sins committed back a year. Not only did it commemorate God's willingness to atone for sins, but it also promised the elimination of sins altogether making fellowship with God possible. This is a common error. The last "week" of the "Seventy Weeks of Years" is NOT the same as the "Tribulation." It's not the "Antichrist" that will fulfill the three statements in Daniel 9:27; It's the REAL "MESSIAH" of verse 26 who has fulfilled them! The first 3.5 years of the last "week" were fulfilled in the "ministry" of the Messiah in His First Advent. By His very presence, He fortified the Davidic Covenant, just as Gabriel announced to Mary. He pronounced the Jews "desolate" in Matthew 23:38, and His death caused the Sacrifice and Oblation to cease. Not in stopping them, but through His own Sacrifice, He satisfied God His Father, thus ending the NEED for Sacrifice and appeasing gifts! God TORE the veil in half, and the high priest no longer had the sign that the sacrifices of animals were accepted. As I said before, the "tabernacle" was a "Bedouin tent," the Bedouins' "home." This is the New Jerusalem as seen in Revelation 21:1-3. Also, the "feast of tabernacles," I believe, is the anniversary of the birth and circumcision of Yeeshuwa`. It's His BIRTHDAY and the CELEBRATION of His naming! This is why it will be a PERSONAL AFFRONT for people not to come to Jerusalem to celebrate "Sukkot" when He reigns as King! Zechariah 14:16-19 (KJV) 16 And it shall come to pass, [that] every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles. 17 And it shall be, [that] whoso will not come up of [all] the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain. 18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that [have] no [rain]; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles. 19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles. ABSOLUTELY! We MUST be on the earth where He will reign, not only for a thousand years, but FOREVER! Thank you for your work. However, I KNOW that Yeeshuwa` shall be the King in Jerusalem forever, not only in Old Jerusalem for a thousand years, but also in the New Jerusalem forever on the New Earth. ("New Heaven" just means "New Sky," btw. It'll be a "New Atmosphere" - a rejuvenated atmosphere - around the New Earth.)

Shabbat shalom, @Revelation Man. A. It means that in His Father's house (the New Jerusalem) are many rooms/mansions. B. it means that He left this earth to work on preparing places for all those who are His disciples/students. C. He also said, "I WILL COME AGAIN, and receive you unto myself." It means that WHEN HE RETURNS, He will receive us to Himself. BUT, He will be HERE when He does! And, He does NOT say that He's taking us to those rooms/mansions! He says that He will take us TO HIMSELF, but He will BE BACK! We won't see those rooms/mansions until the New Jerusalem arrives here after the GWTJ. Read the text carefully without adding to the Scriptures. People make a LOT of assumptions, but one must not put words in His mouth! I'm going to stop you here for a moment: Where did ANYONE, prophet, priest or king, say that Jacob having two wives was analogous to Yeeshuwa` or YHWH God having two wives in Israel and the Gentile Church?! That's a philosophical and theological addition to Scripture that has no basis within the Scriptures! So, the rest of this is not biblical. It's too much symbolism with no word of comparison authenticated or verified by Yeeshuwa`, any of the prophets, or any of the apostles: Not everything should be seen through the eyes of a WEDDING PLANNER! To WHOM did God "pay the price?!" Who is the "father of the bride?" Can you see how LAME this analogy is when pushed to its limits? How often is a groom KILLED to "pay the bride price?!" (Maybe it should be done more often? HA! HA!) Pentecost (which means "fifty") is measured from the Passover by counting 50 days from the Sunday following Passover. It is called the "Counting of the Omer." The Hebrew word for "fifty" is "Shavuot," and it is the holiday commemorating and celebrating the giving of the Torah! It is fitting that the giving of the Ruwach haQodesh (the Holy Spirit) would also be on that day of the Hebrew year. So, no, it is not specific to the Church. (Unless one is talking about "the church in the wilderness." - Acts 7:38.) There's a major problem with this concept: Yeeshuwa`s first recorded miracle was at the wedding at קָנָה or Qaanaah ("Cana"): John 2:1-11 (KJV) 1 And the third day there was a marriage in Cana of Galilee; and the mother of Jesus was there: 2 And both Jesus was called, and his disciples, to the marriage. 3 And when they wanted (lacked) wine, the mother of Jesus saith unto him, "They have no wine." (hint, hint) 4 Jesus saith unto her, "Woman, what have I to do with thee? (What am I going to do with you?) mine hour is not ... yet ... come!" (Note: they've done this before!) 5 His mother saith unto the servants, "Whatsoever he saith unto you, do [it]." 6 And there were set there six waterpots of stone, after the manner of the purifying of the Jews, containing two or three firkins (18-27 gallons) apiece. 7 Jesus saith unto them, "Fill the waterpots with water." And they filled them up to the brim. 8 And he saith unto them, "Draw out now, and bear unto the governor of the feast." And they bare [it]. 9 When the ruler of the feast had tasted the water that was made wine, and knew not whence it was: (but the servants which drew the water knew;) the governor of the feast called the bridegroom, 10 And saith unto him, "EVERY MAN AT THE BEGINNING DOTH SET FORTH GOOD WINE; and when men have well drunk, then that which is worse: [but] thou hast kept the good wine until now!" 11 This beginning of miracles did Jesus in Cana of Galilee, and manifested forth his glory; and his disciples believed on him. So, wine was an INTRICATE part of the wedding supper. BUT, Yeeshuwa` said, Matthew 26:29 (KJV) 29 "But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new WITH YOU IN MY FATHER'S KINGDOM." Mark 14:25 (KJV) 25 "Verily I say unto you, I will drink no more of the fruit of the vine, until that day that I drink it new IN THE KINGDOM OF GOD." He must be REIGNING FIRST before He drinks the wine! He doesn't drink this in "Heaven"; He comes back to earth and THEN He drinks it new after God's Kingdom has been established on the earth! We know this because He also said in the Olivet Discourse, Matthew 25:31 (KJV) 31 "When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, THEN shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:" And, in His parable on the way to Jerusalem, we read this: Luke 19:11-15 (KJV) 11 And as they heard these things, he added and spake a parable, because he was nigh to Jerusalem, and because they thought that the kingdom of God should immediately appear. 12 He said therefore, "A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return. 13 And he called his ten servants, and delivered them ten pounds, and said unto them, "'Occupy (Trade with this) till I come.' 14 "But his citizens hated him, and sent a message after him, saying, "'We will not have THIS [man] to reign over us!' 15 "And it came to pass, that WHEN HE WAS RETURNED, HAVING RECEIVED THE KINGDOM, THEN HE COMMANDED these servants to be called unto him, to whom he had given the money, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading." And, to repress the false claim that His Kingdom is different than His Father's Kingdom, one should also understand that He reigns ON BEHALF OF His Father! Revelation 11:15 (KJV) 15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, "The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord (YHWH God), and of his Christ (His Messiah); and he shall reign for ever and ever." John 5:19-23 (KJV) 19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, "Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise. 20 For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel. 21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth [them]; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will. 22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: 23 That all [men] should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him." And, the JOB of a King of Israel is to be the "supreme court justice" of the people, just as David and Shlomoh ("Solomon") were in their times. 1 Samuel 8:4-22 (KJV) 4 Then all the elders of Israel gathered themselves together, and came to Samuel unto Ramah, 5 And said unto him, "Behold, thou art old, and thy sons walk not in thy ways: now MAKE US A KING TO JUDGE US like all the nations." 6 But the thing displeased Samuel, when they said, "GIVE US A KING TO JUDGE US." And Samuel prayed unto the LORD. 7 And the LORD said unto Samuel, "Hearken unto the voice of the people in all that they say unto thee: for they have not rejected thee, but they have rejected me, that I should not reign over them. 8 According to all the works which they have done since the day that I brought them up out of Egypt even unto this day, wherewith they have forsaken me, and served other gods, so do they also unto thee. 9 Now therefore hearken unto their voice: howbeit yet protest solemnly unto them, and shew them the manner of the king that shall reign over them." 10 And Samuel told all the words of the LORD unto the people that asked of him a king. 11 And he said, "This will be the manner of the king that shall reign over you: He will take your sons, and appoint [them] for himself, for his chariots, and [to be] his horsemen; and [some] shall run before his chariots. 12 And he will appoint him captains over thousands, and captains over fifties; and [will set them] to ear his ground, and to reap his harvest, and to make his instruments of war, and instruments of his chariots. 13 And he will take your daughters [to be] confectionaries, and [to be] cooks, and [to be] bakers. 14 And he will take your fields, and your vineyards, and your oliveyards, [even] the best [of them], and give [them] to his servants. 15 And he will take the tenth of your seed, and of your vineyards, and give to his officers, and to his servants. 16 And he will take your menservants, and your maidservants, and your goodliest young men, and your asses, and put [them] to his work. 17 He will take the tenth of your sheep: and ye shall be his servants. 18 And ye shall cry out in that day because of your king which ye shall have chosen you; and the LORD will not hear you in that day." 19 Nevertheless the people refused to obey the voice of Samuel; and they said, "Nay; but we will have a king over us; 20 That we also may be like all the nations; and that OUR KING MAY JUDGE US, and go out before us, and fight our battles." 21 And Samuel heard all the words of the people, and he rehearsed them in the ears of the LORD. 22 And the LORD said to Samuel, "Hearken unto their voice, and make them a king." And Samuel said unto the men of Israel, Go ye every man unto his city. 2 Samuel 8:15 (KJV) 15 And David reigned over all Israel; and DAVID EXECUTED JUDGMENT AND JUSTICE unto all his people. 1 Chronicles 18:14 (KJV) 14 So David reigned over all Israel, and EXECUTED JUDGMENT AND JUSTICE among all his people. 2 Chronicles 1:7-12 (KJV) 7 In that night did God appear unto Solomon, and said unto him, "Ask what I shall give thee." 8 And Solomon said unto God, "Thou hast shewed great mercy unto David my father, and hast made me to reign in his stead. 9 Now, O LORD God, let thy promise unto David my father be established: for thou hast made me king over a people like the dust of the earth in multitude. 10 Give me now wisdom and knowledge, that I may go out and come in before this people: for WHO CAN JUDGE THIS THY PEOPLE, [that is so] great?" 11 And God said to Solomon, "Because this was in thine heart, and thou hast not asked riches, wealth, or honour, nor the life of thine enemies, neither yet hast asked long life; but hast asked wisdom and knowledge for thyself, that THOU MAYEST JUDGE MY PEOPLE, over whom I have made thee king: 12 Wisdom and knowledge [is] granted unto thee; and I will give thee riches, and wealth, and honour, such as none of the kings have had that [have been] before thee, neither shall there any after thee have the like." Isaiah 16:5 (KJV) 5 And in mercy shall the throne be established: and he shall sit upon it in truth in the tabernacle (tent) of David, JUDGING,AND SEEKING JUDGMENT, and hasting righteousness. (I'm going to work this in a couple of posts.)

Shalom, @Revelation Man. Actually, this is quite wrong. Think about it: Why would the "churches" be in "Heaven" when Yeeshuwa` the Messiah (Jesus the Christ) is back here reigning over the children of Israel? Didn't He say, John 14:1-3 (KJV) 1 "Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. 2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if [it were] not [so], I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, [there] ye may be also." While He doesn't say that He will "take us to Heaven," He DOES say that we will be gathered to Him and wherever He goes, we may be there, too! We WON'T be separated from Him again! One must also read and take to heart what Paul wrote in Ephesians 2: Ephesians 2:11-22 (KJV) 11 Wherefore remember, that ye [being] in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; 12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: 13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. 14 For HE IS OUR PEACE, WHO HATH MADE BOTH ONE, AND HATH BROKEN DOWN THE MIDDLE WALL OF PARTITION [BETWEEN US]; 15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, [even] the law of commandments [contained] in ordinances; for TO MAKE IN HIMSELF OF TWAIN ONE NEW MAN, [SO] MAKING PEACE; 16 And THAT HE MIGHT RECONCILE BOTH UNTO GOD IN ONE BODY BY THE CROSS, HAVING SLAIN THE ENMITY THEREBY: 17 And came and preached peace to you [Gentiles] which were afar off, and to them that were nigh [children of Israel]. 18 For through him we BOTH have access by one Spirit unto the Father. 19 Now therefore ye [Gentiles] are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens WITH the saints [the ones declared "holy"], and of the household of God; 20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner [stone]; 21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: 22 In whom YE ALSO ARE BUILDED TOGETHER for an habitation of God through the Spirit. and to the Galatians, he wrote: Galatians 3:21-29 (KJV) 21 [Is] the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law. 22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. 23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. 24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster [to bring us] unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. 26 For YE ARE ALL THE CHILDREN OF GOD BY FAITH IN CHRIST JESUS [IN THE MESSIAH YEESHUWA`]. 27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 THERE IS NEITHER JEW NOR GREEK, THERE IS NEITHER BOND NOR FREE, THERE IS NEITHER MALE NOR FEMALE: FOR YE ARE ALL ONE IN CHRIST JESUS. 29 And IF YE [BE] CHRIST'S, THEN ARE YE ABRAHAM'S SEED, AND HEIRS ACCORDING TO THE PROMISE. (Note: This is not written about those OUTSIDE of the Messiah! Only WITHIN the Messiah are the two made one.) And to the Romans, he wrote: Romans 11:11-32 (KJV) 11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should [permanently] fall? God forbid: but [rather] through their [temporary] fall SALVATION [IS COME] UNTO THE GENTILES, FOR TO PROVOKE THEM TO JEALOUSY. 12 Now if the [temporary] fall of them [be] the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; HOW MUCH MORE THEIR FULNESS? 13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office: 14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation [them which are] my flesh, and might save some of them. 15 For if the casting away of them [be] the reconciling of the world, WHAT [SHALL] THE RECEIVING [OF THEM BE], BUT LIFE FROM THE DEAD? 16 For if the firstfruit [be] holy, the lump [is] also [holy]: and IF THE ROOT [BE] HOLY, SO [ARE] THE BRANCHES. 17 And if SOME of the branches be broken off, and thou [Gentile], being a "wild olive tree," wert graffed in AMONG THEM [the children of Israel], and WITH THEM partakest of the root and fatness of "the olive tree"; 18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee. 19 Thou wilt say then, "The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in." 20 Well; because of UNBELIEF they were broken off, and thou standest by FAITH. Be not highminded, but fear: 21 For if God spared not the natural branches, [take heed] lest he also spare not thee! 22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, IF thou continue in [his] goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off! 23 And they also, IF THEY ABIDE NOT STILL IN UNBELIEF, SHALL BE GRAFFED IN: FOR GOD IS ABLE TO GRAFF THEM IN AGAIN. 24 For if thou wert cut out of "the olive tree which is wild by nature," and wert graffed "contrary to nature into a good olive tree": how much more shall THESE, WHICH BE THE NATURAL [BRANCHES], BE GRAFFED INTO THEIR OWN OLIVE TREE? 25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness IN PART is happened to Israel, UNTIL the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. 26 And so ALL ISRAEL shall be saved: as it is written, "There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and SHALL TURN AWAY UNGODLINESS FROM JACOB: 27 For this [is] my covenant unto them, WHEN I SHALL TAKE AWAY THEIR SINS." [Isaiah 59:20,21; 27:9 (see Septuagint); Jeremiah 31:33,34] 28 As concerning the gospel, [they are] enemies for your sakes: but AS TOUCHING THE ELECTION, [THEY ARE] BELOVED FOR THE FATHERS' SAKES. 29 For the gifts and calling of God [are] without repentance [God doesn't renege upon His gifts or calling]. 30 For as ye [Gentiles] in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief: 31 Even so have these [the children of Israel] also now not believed, that THROUGH YOUR MERCY they also may obtain mercy. 32 For God hath concluded them ALL in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon ALL. We don't become "one man" in the "church"; that is NOT a true corporation. It was never intended to be a corporation. It's just a gathering of believers. That's it; that's all. Instead, we become "one man" in the Olive Tree! The Messiah's Israel, for Yeeshuwa` is the שֹׁרֶשׁ יִשַׁי, the "shoresh Yishay," the "Root of Jesse!" (Isaiah 11:10). You're right about this. People don't recognize when prophecies are being fulfilled, and they will frequently push the prophecy off into the future as though we are still to be looking forward to its fulfillment. This is a rather audacious claim; I'm 67 years old and have been introduced to the Scriptures since I was born in 1957 by my father who was a Baptist pastor. Up until I got the mumps when I was 12, I could claim I had never missed a church service! Furthermore, God justified me when I was five years old, but I'm no "Jack van Impe!" I don't have the Bible completely memorized. Do you? I've learned that there are ALWAYS things that are new to me within the Scriptures! Dig DEEPER! Do you know Greek? Do you know Hebrew? And, I'm not just talking about looking the words up in a dictionary or a lexicon; I'm talking about knowing the grammar! Did you know that there are NUANCES to the words used in those original languages that ADD INFORMATION to what was written? Don't make the mistake of thinking that "God PRESERVING His Word through the translation process" means that the translation from any language into another language is "ONE-TO-ONE": Sometimes, one word in Greek or Hebrew has no single word in English that fully translates its meaning. So, the translator may have to supply additional words to convey the meaning. Sometimes a whole phrase in Greek or Hebrew can be reduced to one or two words in English. There's even HUMOR in the Bible that didn't translate well. We've lost the PUNCH LINE! Furthermore, we have a LIVING language, and the words we use in one time period will grow archaic and other words take their place for the same meaning. We are constantly adding new words to the English language, as technology advances and cultures change. The fact that it is older than 400 years old doesn't deter me; I still prefer the King James Version for several reasons: First, it was an accurate translation for its time period, because the holy men who wrote it were determined to translate it correctly DESPITE the king, who commissioned the work, being the head of the Anglican Church! Even when the king might have taken issue with their translation, they would purposely introduce new words - transliterations of the original words in Greek - so as not to loose the words' meaning and yet appease the king. Second, it is the ONE version that keeps the "thee's" and "thou's" and "thy's" and "thine's" found within its pages. These words were the SINGULAR form of the second-person words! "Ye's" and "you's" and "your's" and "yours's" were PLURAL in number! This is information that is LOST in the modern translations. If one prefers a different translation, one must go to the original language to see the number of people who were being talked about, if the context doesn't preserve the number for the words "you," "your" and "yours" used in today's versions. Third, it is one of the first translations that used the word-by-word translation method, attempting to be a word-to-word translation process. They did their best to keep it as "one-to-one" as humanly possible. Fourth, it is the version which I grew up knowing; so, it's wording is familiar to me. I know that "wot" is the past tense of the verb "to wit." I know that "trow" is to "trust" as "know" is to "known." I understand the British spelling of words. I understand that the singular forms of verbs must be kept to the singular forms of nouns in sentence agreement; therefore, I know the difference between words that end in "-eth" and those that end in "-est." I could go on, but ... big whoop. Who really cares? The point is that there is ALWAYS still something to learn about the Bible that has come to us! IF it was offered for the reason of covering one's sins. However, not all sacrifices were for that purpose! And, the Levi'iym ("the Levites") were FED by the sacrifices brought to the Tabernacle and later the Temple! They didn't receive a land portion; the service for YHWH (the LORD) was their portion! They didn't have to spend their time out in the fields working; their time was spent in the daily service within the Tabernacle/Temple service or in other services provided by the priests and Levites. Therefore, God had worked into their sacrificial service the means by which they were to receive a part of the sacrifice for them and their families! Also, not all sacrifices had blood. Wave offerings, for instance, were grains and fruits. Drink offerings were wine (grape juice, whether fermented or not). The sacrifices that are talked about in the prophecy of Ychezk'eel ("Ezekiel") are for these purposes. They were a "BARBECUE" for the children of Israel, particularly the priests and Levites! Furthermore, when offered in such a way, it's not a "mockery"; it's a REMEMBRANCE! It HONORS AND COMMEMORATES the Sacrifice that the Messiah made! You speak of the "1290 AoD," but this comes from Daniel 12:11, but the messengers are talking to Daniel about the Desolation caused by Antiochus IV "Epiphanes" of the Seleucid Empire, which was still future to Daniel at the time his book was written. It is not about OUR future at all. Can you tell when one has the Holy Spirit of God within him just by looking at him? If not, then how can you tell when a Jewish person has "no Holy Spirit yet in them?" Doesn't the Holy Spirit of YHWH God PERMEATE His Universe?! Remember: They were blinded to the truth of their Messiah TEMPORARILY! Furthermore, there's nothing in the Scriptures that say that they will INSTANTLY have the blindness removed. In fact, we're learning that through the Messianic congregations and the Jews for Jesus groups, they are beginning to recognize their Messiah! Through signs, they will come back to God, and they will see that Yeeshuwa` - not the "Jesus" of the Gentile Christians - is indeed God's Choice for Israel's King! @Keras is correct. The Rapture is not a translation to "Heaven"; it is a mass transit system to get all of His believers to the Middle East in a hurry! First, we will be resurrected to new life, and then we'll be "caught [up]" or "seized away" by the Messiah's messengers (Greek: aggeloi = English: "angels"), meeting the Messiah in the sky, and descending to the Middle East, aiding the Messiah in His rescue of the children of Israel, predominantly the Jews or "children of Judah." I'm sure that ALL philosophers and theologians will need to "backpedal" on our teachings. NO ONE has it 100% correct, and TEACHERS of theology are going to face the music worse, for "we must all appear before the judgment seat of the Messiah."

Shalom, @In1. Our senses can deceive us, and that fact is frequently used by magicians and charlatans every day! Our senses cannot detect God; He is the Creator and is therefore SUPERIOR to His Creation, outside of time and space that He has created! Just the same, He PERMEATES His Creation! So much so that David said, Psalm 139:7-12 (KJV) 7 Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence? 8 If I ascend up into heaven, thou [art] there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou [art there]. 9 [If] I take the wings of the morning, [and] dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea; 10 Even there shall thy hand lead me, and thy right hand shall hold me. 11 If I say, Surely the darkness shall cover me; even the night shall be light about me. 12 Yea, the darkness hideth not from thee; but the night shineth as the day: the darkness and the light [are] both alike [to thee]. This is why SCIENCE (especially that "science" falsely so-called) is INCOMPLETE. They are the ones today who "strain out a gnat, and swallow a camel!" Science doesn't know "faith." Faith is trust in God. Our modern "science" has left God out a long time ago! They worry about the environment; God CONTROLS our environment! They worry about resources; God PROVIDES resources! They worry about the Universe; God MADE the Universe! They look for life outside our world; God CREATED a GREAT VARIETY of life RIGHT HERE on this planet! Atheists don't want to admit it, but atheism IS a religion! It's what they BELIEVE! They trust in their OWN hypotheses and theories, and ASSUME THEY are correct! It's a form of self-idolatry! "Why should anyone believe in God when they've got ME? I'M the expert!"

Shalom, @In1. Which "world" are you talking about? The "world" in the Bible is not very reliable: Paul said, Romans 12:1-2 (KJV) 1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, [which is] your reasonable service. 2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what [is] that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God. James 4:4 (KJV) 4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God. 1 John 2:15-17 (KJV) 15 Love not the world, neither the things [that are] in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16 For all that [is] in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. 17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.

Shalom, @Mr. M. I investigated his opinions, and he was suggesting that Venus was captured as a comet-like object into its current orbit. That would be an AMAZING feat in itself! How was a greatly exaggerated, eliptical orbit changed into a nearly circular orbit today? This is why the popular opinion (not that I believe it) is that the earth and the moon were two pieces of one object at first that separated, rather than the earth capturing the moon as it passed by. The resultant harmonics of the oscillations of their momentums in such a capture would be too great not to affect the earth, as well. The very inertia of a passing object would be transferred to the wave pattern of the moon's orbit around the earth, affecting the earth, as one ball in Newton's Cradle would affect another. There would be a "ringing" effect in their combined gravities. But, that is not what we find. Instead, the moon's orbit about the earth is quite stable and has been since there have been human beings to observe it! Of course, God's Word says, Genesis 1:14-19 (KJV) 14 And God said, "Let there be lights (Hebrew: מְאֹרֹת = "m'orot" = "from-light's" in masculine plural absolute) in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: 15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth": and it was so. 16 And God made two great lights (Hebrew: שְׁנֵי הַמְּאֹרֹת הַגְּדֹלִים = "shneey hamm'orot haggdoliym" = "two the-from-lights the-great-ones"); the greater light (Hebrew: הַמָּאוֹר הַגָּדֹל = "hammaa'owr haggaadol" = "the-from-light the-greater-one") to rule the day, and the lesser light (Hebrew: הַמָּאוֹר הַקָּטֹן = "hammaa'owr haqqaaTon" = "the-from-light the-lesser-one") to rule the night: [he made] the stars also (Hebrew: הַכּוֹכָבִים = "hakowkhaaViym" = "the-round-objects"). 17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth, 18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that [it was] good. 19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day. This is quite amazing! God created the "FROM-LIGHTS BEFORE He created the assumed "sources" of that light! Then, almost as an afterthought, He added, "[He made] the round objects [also]," the planet ("wandering star"), Venus, being one of them!

Shalom, @In1. Hebrews 11:1 (KJV) 1 Now faith is the SUBSTANCE of things hoped for, the EVIDENCE of things not seen. What "substance?" The substance is the scrolls and papyrii and vellum upon which the words are penned with the ink in use at the time. What "evidence?" The evidence is presented in the rest of Hebrews 11! It is the actual ACCOUNTS of the lives of individuals down through time who DEMONSTRATED that faith in God and received VALIDATION from GOD HIMSELF for their FAITH! It's not just the "things hoped for" or the "things not seen," as so many have read this verse to mean. It is the TANGIBLE SUBSTANCE and the INVESTIGATIVE EVIDENCE! It's not about a person's viewpoint or opinion. It's WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS! PERIOD! One can only understand that through the grammatical, historical method of interpretation. One may NEVER be authorized to "put a spin" on what God's Word actually says! Therefore, Faith is objective. We don't just believe it is true; the Scriptures are true, whether we believe them or not! They are TRUSTWORTHY AND IMMUTABLE!

Shalom, @In1. I guess, the best way to answer this is to note that similarity does NOT mean equality. Not in mathematics, and therefore, not in logic. We can visually see this in geometry, because while two triangles may be similar, having the same angles, they may also not be equal, having proportional sides that are not equal. I'm going to take a step back and define terms: subjective | səbˈjektiv | adjective 1 BASED ON OR INFLUENCED BY PERSONAL FEELINGS, TASTES, OR OPINIONS. Contrasted with objective: his views are highly subjective | there is always the danger of making a subjective judgment. • dependent on the mind or on an individual's perception for its existence. 2 Grammar relating to or denoting a case of nouns and pronouns used for the subject of a sentence. (the subjective) noun Grammar the subjective case. derivatives subjectiveness | səbˈjektəvnəs | noun origin late Middle English (originally in the sense ‘characteristic of a political subject, submissive’): from Latin subjectivus, from subject- ‘brought under’ (see subject). objective | əbˈjektiv | adjective 1 (of a person or their judgment) NOT INFLUENCED BY PERSONAL FEELINGS OR OPINIONS IN CONSIDERING AND REPRESENTING FACTS. Contrasted with subjective: historians try to be objective and impartial. • not dependent on the mind for existence; actual: a matter of objective fact. 2 [attributive] Grammar relating to or denoting a case of nouns and pronouns used as the object of a transitive verb or a preposition. noun 1 a thing aimed at or sought; a goal: the system has achieved its objective. 2 (the objective) Grammar the objective case. 3 (also objective lens) the lens in a telescope or microscope nearest to the object observed: examine with high power objective. derivatives objectiveness | əbˈjektivnəs | noun origin early 17th century: via French from medieval Latin objectivus, from objectum (see object). As to defining "works" and "faith," we must go back to how the authors of the New Testament used the words in context: The Greek word translated as "works" is "ἔργα," the plural of "ἔργον": G2041 ἔργον érgon, er'-gon; from a primary (but obsolete) ἔργω érgō (to work); toil (as an effort or occupation); by implication, an act: —deed, doing, labour, work. These last four words are how the Greek word was translated into English in the KJV. The Greek word usually translated as "faith" is "πίστις." Sometimes the verb forms (G3982 πείθω to persuade or G4100 πιστεύω to trust; believe) are translated in context to make a noun form: G4102 πίστις pístis, pis'-tis; from G3982; persuasion, i.e. credence; moral conviction (of religious truth, or the truthfulness of God or a religious teacher), especially reliance upon Christ for salvation; abstractly, constancy in such profession; by extension, the system of religious (Gospel) truth itself: —assurance, belief, believe, faith, fidelity. G3982 πείθω peíthō, pi'-tho; a primary verb; to convince (by argument, true or false); by analogy, to pacify or conciliate (by other fair means); reflexively or passively, to assent (to evidence or authority), to rely (by inward certainty): —agree, assure, believe, have confidence, be (wax) confident, make friend, obey, persuade, trust, yield. G4100 πιστεύω pisteúō, pist-yoo'-o; from G4102; to have faith (in, upon, or with respect to, a person or thing), i.e. credit; by implication, to entrust (especially one's spiritual well-being to Christ): —believe(-r), commit (to trust), put in trust with. I thought to include all the verses that contain both words, but thought better of doing so. I already post replies that are too big. Suffice it to say that I've done so; and these definitions as given in Strong's Concordance are fairly accurate. "Works" themselves are "deeds" or "performances" of things we can do. They can be either "good" or "bad/evil," but in Paul's writings, for instance, he is frequently referring to "the perfomance of GOOD deeds" when he said, "works." But, we have Paul saying to Peter, Galatians 2:15-16 (KJV) 15 "We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, 16 Knowing that A MAN IS NOT JUSTIFIED BY THE WORKS OF THE LAW, BUT BY THE FAITH OF JESUS CHRIST, even WE HAVE BELIEVED IN JESUS CHRIST, THAT WE MIGHT BE JUSTIFIED BY THE FAITH OF CHRIST, AND NOT BY THE WORKS OF THE LAW: for by the works of the law shall NO FLESH be justified." Paul said to Titus, his "own son after the common faith," his pupil, a Greek who was not circumcised, Titus 3:1-8 (KJV) 1 Put them in mind ... to be subject to principalities and powers, to obey magistrates, to be ready to every good work, 2 To speak evil of no man, to be no brawlers, [but] gentle, shewing all meekness unto all men. 3 For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, [and] hating one another. 4 But AFTER that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, 5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; 6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; 7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life. 8 [This is] a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have BELIEVED IN GOD might be careful to maintain GOOD WORKS. These things are good and profitable unto men. So, I don't really know how you're making the comparison, but the works of the Law are not only the "deeds performed in keeping the Law of God," but may also include the "deeds" by which some think they will be justified, such as "going to church," or "getting baptized," or "taking the Eucharist," or ... ! NONE of those things will justify an individual! GOD must step in and justify a person, and He does it when a person TRUSTS in Him to do it! That's what "faith" is. It's TRUST in God, not only to perform the Sacrifice, but in applying it to an individual!

Shalom, @Mr. M. A little clean-up work: Yeah, I knew that once. Getting older; thank you for the correction. English is still my first language, and I'm still learning....

Shalom, @In1. And, now we get to the heart of the matter. One's "salvation," which I recognize as "God's justification of an individual," had better NOT be "subjective"; that is, dependent upon one's viewpoint in our relationship with God! It must be as REAL as God is REAL or it won't count! See, some have said that OSAS ("Once Saved, Always Saved") is not true; that is, it cannot be counted on. But, this is poor wording, and therefore, it is "red herring." The correct wording gives the truth and shows how it is possible: It should be worded, "Once Justified By God, ALWAYS Justified By God." See, it's not up to us! We had nothing to do with our justification; GOD had to step in and justify us, in spite of our sin, by seeing the Messiah Yeeshuwa` AS our "sin," in spite of Him being without sin, and pouring out His Wrath and Judgment upon His Son while He was dying on the cross almost 2,000 years ago. That instance gave Him legal standing to look at each one of us who trust in His Sacrifice to be called "the Righteousness of God," which was found in His Messiah! This is what Paul was telling us in 2 Corinthians 5: (Before we look at these verses, it is important to understand what the Greek words "καταλλαγῆς" for "reconciliation," "καταλλάξαντος" for "reconciled," and "καταλλάσσων" for "reconciling" mean.) G2643 καταλλαγή katallagḗ, kat-al-lag-ay'; from G2644; exchange (figuratively, adjustment), i.e. restoration to (the divine) favor: —atonement, reconciliation(-ing). G2644 καταλλάσσω katallássō, kat-al-las'-so; from G2596 and G236; to change mutually, i.e. (figuratively) to compound a difference: —reconcile. 2 Corinthians 5:9-21 (KJV) 9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him. 10 For WE MUST ALL APPEAR BEFORE THE JUDGMENT SEAT OF CHRIST (OF THE MESSIAH); that every one may receive the things [done] in [his] body, according to that he hath done, whether [it be] good or bad. 11 Knowing therefore THE TERROR OF THE LORD, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences. 12 For we commend not ourselves again unto you, but give you occasion to glory on our behalf, that ye may have somewhat to [answer] them which glory in appearance, and not in heart. 13 For whether we be beside ourselves, [it is] to God: or whether we be sober, [it is] for your cause. 14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: 15 And [that] he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again. 16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ (the Messiah) after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we [him] no more. 17 Therefore IF ANY MAN [BE] IN CHRIST (IN THE MESSIAH), [HE IS] A NEW CREATURE: OLD THINGS ARE PASSED AWAY; BEHOLD, ALL THINGS ARE BECOME NEW. 18 And all things [are] of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ (God has exchanged places with us through Yeeshuwa` the Messiah), and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation (the service of exchanging places); 19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself (God was in His Messiah exchanging places with the world), NOT IMPUTING THEIR TRESPASSES UNTO THEM; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation (the message of exchanging places). 20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech [you] by us: we pray [you] in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God (you, too, exchange places with God). 21 For he (God the Father) hath made him (the Son of God, the Messiah) [to be] sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him. THAT is the basis for the Great Exchange! God made the Christ - the Messiah - to be "sin" for us, even though He had no sin of His own for which to suffer. And, in that Sacrifice, when we accept that Sacrifice as our own, asking God for His help, He completes the exchange by making each one of us, as we ask, to be the "Righteousness of God" found within His Messiah, calling the Messiah "OUR sin." This is also found in Yeeshuwa`s parable of the Pharisee and the Publican: Luke 18:9-14 (KJV) 9 And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others: 10 "Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican. 11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, "'God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men [are], extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican. 12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.' 13 "And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as [his] eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, "'God be merciful to me a sinner.' 14 "I tell you, THIS MAN (the Publican) went down to his house JUSTIFIED [rather] than the other (the Pharisee): for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted." Therefore, it must be GOD who does the justifying, not us! We CANNOT justify ourselves, and HE makes the exchange valid and objectively TRUE! If you've not known this before, then please take the time to request God's mercy for yourself, and let HIM justify you. You can even pray the same prayer as the Publican above, and the Great GOD of the UNIVERSE will make the exchange complete in your life, as well.

Shalom, @Mr. M. Well, I looked this up online: "At closest approach, Venus can be about 24 million miles(38 million kilometers) from Earth. This occurs when Earth and Venus are on the same side of the Sun during inferior conjunction." So, it seems unlikely, not to mention that a close conjunction with Venus would be a weird mix of their gravitational forces, making things slightly lighter on the surface of the earth (or heavier on the opposite side of the earth). And, at 24,000,000 miles apart, that fluctuation would be minimal. The two planets are just not close enough to do that kind of change. Fun to think about though, isn't it?