Retrobyter

Shalom, @In1. Hebrews 11:1 (KJV) 1 Now faith is the SUBSTANCE of things hoped for, the EVIDENCE of things not seen. What "substance?" The substance is the scrolls and papyrii and vellum upon which the words are penned with the ink in use at the time. What "evidence?" The evidence is presented in the rest of Hebrews 11! It is the actual ACCOUNTS of the lives of individuals down through time who DEMONSTRATED that faith in God and received VALIDATION from GOD HIMSELF for their FAITH! It's not just the "things hoped for" or the "things not seen," as so many have read this verse to mean. It is the TANGIBLE SUBSTANCE and the INVESTIGATIVE EVIDENCE! It's not about a person's viewpoint or opinion. It's WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS! PERIOD! One can only understand that through the grammatical, historical method of interpretation. One may NEVER be authorized to "put a spin" on what God's Word actually says! Therefore, Faith is objective. We don't just believe it is true; the Scriptures are true, whether we believe them or not! They are TRUSTWORTHY AND IMMUTABLE!

Shalom, @In1. I guess, the best way to answer this is to note that similarity does NOT mean equality. Not in mathematics, and therefore, not in logic. We can visually see this in geometry, because while two triangles may be similar, having the same angles, they may also not be equal, having proportional sides that are not equal. I'm going to take a step back and define terms: subjective | səbˈjektiv | adjective 1 BASED ON OR INFLUENCED BY PERSONAL FEELINGS, TASTES, OR OPINIONS. Contrasted with objective: his views are highly subjective | there is always the danger of making a subjective judgment. • dependent on the mind or on an individual's perception for its existence. 2 Grammar relating to or denoting a case of nouns and pronouns used for the subject of a sentence. (the subjective) noun Grammar the subjective case. derivatives subjectiveness | səbˈjektəvnəs | noun origin late Middle English (originally in the sense ‘characteristic of a political subject, submissive’): from Latin subjectivus, from subject- ‘brought under’ (see subject). objective | əbˈjektiv | adjective 1 (of a person or their judgment) NOT INFLUENCED BY PERSONAL FEELINGS OR OPINIONS IN CONSIDERING AND REPRESENTING FACTS. Contrasted with subjective: historians try to be objective and impartial. • not dependent on the mind for existence; actual: a matter of objective fact. 2 [attributive] Grammar relating to or denoting a case of nouns and pronouns used as the object of a transitive verb or a preposition. noun 1 a thing aimed at or sought; a goal: the system has achieved its objective. 2 (the objective) Grammar the objective case. 3 (also objective lens) the lens in a telescope or microscope nearest to the object observed: examine with high power objective. derivatives objectiveness | əbˈjektivnəs | noun origin early 17th century: via French from medieval Latin objectivus, from objectum (see object). As to defining "works" and "faith," we must go back to how the authors of the New Testament used the words in context: The Greek word translated as "works" is "ἔργα," the plural of "ἔργον": G2041 ἔργον érgon, er'-gon; from a primary (but obsolete) ἔργω érgō (to work); toil (as an effort or occupation); by implication, an act: —deed, doing, labour, work. These last four words are how the Greek word was translated into English in the KJV. The Greek word usually translated as "faith" is "πίστις." Sometimes the verb forms (G3982 πείθω to persuade or G4100 πιστεύω to trust; believe) are translated in context to make a noun form: G4102 πίστις pístis, pis'-tis; from G3982; persuasion, i.e. credence; moral conviction (of religious truth, or the truthfulness of God or a religious teacher), especially reliance upon Christ for salvation; abstractly, constancy in such profession; by extension, the system of religious (Gospel) truth itself: —assurance, belief, believe, faith, fidelity. G3982 πείθω peíthō, pi'-tho; a primary verb; to convince (by argument, true or false); by analogy, to pacify or conciliate (by other fair means); reflexively or passively, to assent (to evidence or authority), to rely (by inward certainty): —agree, assure, believe, have confidence, be (wax) confident, make friend, obey, persuade, trust, yield. G4100 πιστεύω pisteúō, pist-yoo'-o; from G4102; to have faith (in, upon, or with respect to, a person or thing), i.e. credit; by implication, to entrust (especially one's spiritual well-being to Christ): —believe(-r), commit (to trust), put in trust with. I thought to include all the verses that contain both words, but thought better of doing so. I already post replies that are too big. Suffice it to say that I've done so; and these definitions as given in Strong's Concordance are fairly accurate. "Works" themselves are "deeds" or "performances" of things we can do. They can be either "good" or "bad/evil," but in Paul's writings, for instance, he is frequently referring to "the perfomance of GOOD deeds" when he said, "works." But, we have Paul saying to Peter, Galatians 2:15-16 (KJV) 15 "We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, 16 Knowing that A MAN IS NOT JUSTIFIED BY THE WORKS OF THE LAW, BUT BY THE FAITH OF JESUS CHRIST, even WE HAVE BELIEVED IN JESUS CHRIST, THAT WE MIGHT BE JUSTIFIED BY THE FAITH OF CHRIST, AND NOT BY THE WORKS OF THE LAW: for by the works of the law shall NO FLESH be justified." Paul said to Titus, his "own son after the common faith," his pupil, a Greek who was not circumcised, Titus 3:1-8 (KJV) 1 Put them in mind ... to be subject to principalities and powers, to obey magistrates, to be ready to every good work, 2 To speak evil of no man, to be no brawlers, [but] gentle, shewing all meekness unto all men. 3 For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, [and] hating one another. 4 But AFTER that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, 5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; 6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; 7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life. 8 [This is] a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have BELIEVED IN GOD might be careful to maintain GOOD WORKS. These things are good and profitable unto men. So, I don't really know how you're making the comparison, but the works of the Law are not only the "deeds performed in keeping the Law of God," but may also include the "deeds" by which some think they will be justified, such as "going to church," or "getting baptized," or "taking the Eucharist," or ... ! NONE of those things will justify an individual! GOD must step in and justify a person, and He does it when a person TRUSTS in Him to do it! That's what "faith" is. It's TRUST in God, not only to perform the Sacrifice, but in applying it to an individual!

Shalom, @Mr. M. A little clean-up work: Yeah, I knew that once. Getting older; thank you for the correction. English is still my first language, and I'm still learning....

Shalom, @In1. And, now we get to the heart of the matter. One's "salvation," which I recognize as "God's justification of an individual," had better NOT be "subjective"; that is, dependent upon one's viewpoint in our relationship with God! It must be as REAL as God is REAL or it won't count! See, some have said that OSAS ("Once Saved, Always Saved") is not true; that is, it cannot be counted on. But, this is poor wording, and therefore, it is "red herring." The correct wording gives the truth and shows how it is possible: It should be worded, "Once Justified By God, ALWAYS Justified By God." See, it's not up to us! We had nothing to do with our justification; GOD had to step in and justify us, in spite of our sin, by seeing the Messiah Yeeshuwa` AS our "sin," in spite of Him being without sin, and pouring out His Wrath and Judgment upon His Son while He was dying on the cross almost 2,000 years ago. That instance gave Him legal standing to look at each one of us who trust in His Sacrifice to be called "the Righteousness of God," which was found in His Messiah! This is what Paul was telling us in 2 Corinthians 5: (Before we look at these verses, it is important to understand what the Greek words "καταλλαγῆς" for "reconciliation," "καταλλάξαντος" for "reconciled," and "καταλλάσσων" for "reconciling" mean.) G2643 καταλλαγή katallagḗ, kat-al-lag-ay'; from G2644; exchange (figuratively, adjustment), i.e. restoration to (the divine) favor: —atonement, reconciliation(-ing). G2644 καταλλάσσω katallássō, kat-al-las'-so; from G2596 and G236; to change mutually, i.e. (figuratively) to compound a difference: —reconcile. 2 Corinthians 5:9-21 (KJV) 9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him. 10 For WE MUST ALL APPEAR BEFORE THE JUDGMENT SEAT OF CHRIST (OF THE MESSIAH); that every one may receive the things [done] in [his] body, according to that he hath done, whether [it be] good or bad. 11 Knowing therefore THE TERROR OF THE LORD, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences. 12 For we commend not ourselves again unto you, but give you occasion to glory on our behalf, that ye may have somewhat to [answer] them which glory in appearance, and not in heart. 13 For whether we be beside ourselves, [it is] to God: or whether we be sober, [it is] for your cause. 14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: 15 And [that] he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again. 16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ (the Messiah) after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we [him] no more. 17 Therefore IF ANY MAN [BE] IN CHRIST (IN THE MESSIAH), [HE IS] A NEW CREATURE: OLD THINGS ARE PASSED AWAY; BEHOLD, ALL THINGS ARE BECOME NEW. 18 And all things [are] of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ (God has exchanged places with us through Yeeshuwa` the Messiah), and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation (the service of exchanging places); 19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself (God was in His Messiah exchanging places with the world), NOT IMPUTING THEIR TRESPASSES UNTO THEM; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation (the message of exchanging places). 20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech [you] by us: we pray [you] in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God (you, too, exchange places with God). 21 For he (God the Father) hath made him (the Son of God, the Messiah) [to be] sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him. THAT is the basis for the Great Exchange! God made the Christ - the Messiah - to be "sin" for us, even though He had no sin of His own for which to suffer. And, in that Sacrifice, when we accept that Sacrifice as our own, asking God for His help, He completes the exchange by making each one of us, as we ask, to be the "Righteousness of God" found within His Messiah, calling the Messiah "OUR sin." This is also found in Yeeshuwa`s parable of the Pharisee and the Publican: Luke 18:9-14 (KJV) 9 And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others: 10 "Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican. 11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, "'God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men [are], extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican. 12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.' 13 "And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as [his] eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, "'God be merciful to me a sinner.' 14 "I tell you, THIS MAN (the Publican) went down to his house JUSTIFIED [rather] than the other (the Pharisee): for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted." Therefore, it must be GOD who does the justifying, not us! We CANNOT justify ourselves, and HE makes the exchange valid and objectively TRUE! If you've not known this before, then please take the time to request God's mercy for yourself, and let HIM justify you. You can even pray the same prayer as the Publican above, and the Great GOD of the UNIVERSE will make the exchange complete in your life, as well.

Shalom, @Mr. M. Well, I looked this up online: "At closest approach, Venus can be about 24 million miles(38 million kilometers) from Earth. This occurs when Earth and Venus are on the same side of the Sun during inferior conjunction." So, it seems unlikely, not to mention that a close conjunction with Venus would be a weird mix of their gravitational forces, making things slightly lighter on the surface of the earth (or heavier on the opposite side of the earth). And, at 24,000,000 miles apart, that fluctuation would be minimal. The two planets are just not close enough to do that kind of change. Fun to think about though, isn't it?

Shalom, @In1. For us to understand it, yes; however, objective truth is truth, whether we perceive it or not! Moses said (sang) of God, Deuteronomy 32:4 (KJV) 4 "He is the Rock, his work is perfect (complete; mature): for all his ways are judgment: a God of TRUTH and without iniquity, just and right is he." When Thomas asked, "Lord, we don't know where you're going; so, how can we know the way?" we read, John 14:6 (KJV) Jesus saith unto him, "I am the way, the TRUTH, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." How many people have FAILED to perceive this Truth? Does that make it any less the Truth? There ARE such things as ABSOLUTES in His Creation! It's NOT "all relative" nor subjective!

Shalom, @Mr. M. Sorry for not getting back to you right away. Got involved in the "BUSTED" topic. Yes, naphtha can be naturally occurring with the right conditions. However, it is not a normally existing substance. It is a by-product of the distillation of crude oil, which in turn was indeed formed by a catastrophic event - the FLOOD of Noach's 600th birthday! And, yes, the stopping of the earth's rotation would be catastrophic. However, there's another suggestion which doesn't involve the earth's rotation being stopped for the explanation of Joshua 10:12. A "rotation" may not be a perfect circle; indeed, most "circles" in nature are NOT perfect circles if they are wave patterns from cyclic conditions that continually slightly decay, such as the "night-day" cycle of earth's rotation. They are actually more like cardioids, however delayed the cusp of the wave pattern may be. Like a spinning top occasionally will "wobble," the rotation is still occurring, but the cusp is like a "hiccup" in the pattern, allowing for the APPEARANCE of stopping, while not stopping. I believe that's what happened in Joshua 10:12. Another such "hiccup" may have occurred when Hizkiyaahuw's (Hezekiah's) sundial "went backward ten degrees." in 2 Kings 20:9-11 and Isaiah 38:8. And, again, I will qualify this answer with the fact that we really don't know HOW God performed it, but this is a plausible possibility. I'm not saying that is exactly how God must have done it, but He COULD have done it that way or by another way which we cannot imagine, as yet. After all, HE is God, and what are we by comparison? We're but blind gnats trying to feel our way through His vast Universe!

Shalom, @In1. No, perception is SUBJECTIVE! REALITY is OBJECTIVE truth! Don't be "stuck in the Matrix!" "Take the red pill," and see the truth! You also said, "... is like ..." again leads to analogy - allegory - and is no longer talking about the reality but the perception! Talk about the PIT not some comparison to something else. HaSatan (Hebrew for "the Enemy") will LITERALLY be chained and thrown into a DEEP PIT for a THOUSAND years. One should not be reading God's Word while attempting to find something else He meant by what He said! Instead, just take what He said at face value!

Shalom, again, @In1. This is a problem that needs correcting: When one uses the words "like" or "as," one is making something to be an allegory. When this is the consistent way that one treats Scripture, he or she is using allegorical interpretation. It's not necessary. First, it is not supported by the text of Scripture, and Second, it takes one away from the MEAT of what the Scripture is actually saying. Unless the author, whether human or divine, makes the statement, "this is an allegory for ...," one is PUTTING WORDS IN THE MOUTH OF THE AUTHOR! One is doing what is called "eisegesis" - "READING INTO the Scriptures what one WANTS to see in those Scriptures. One is more right to READ OUT FROM THE SCRIPTURES - "exegesis" - what the author or Author INTENDED to say! As the saying goes, "God gave us two ears and one mouth; therefore, we should be LISTENING twice as much as we SPEAK!" That is ESPECIALLY important when reading the very Words of God, for that is when we are LISTENING to God's Words. Reading into the Scriptures what we want them to say is SPEAKING FOR God, as though we could instruct the God of the UNIVERSE! And, the onus is even more important if one is trying to TEACH others! It's bad enough if we've mixed up our own minds, but it's compounded when we're spreading things that aren't true to others!

Shalom, @In1. Not, the concept of the pit itself; it's the idea that the pit must be in the center of the earth that is bogus. The pit doesn't have to be where every direction is "up" (earth's center); it just has to be a pit that is so deep that it cannot be measured. That's all that the Greek word "abussos" means. I should also add that it is NOT figurative of a woman's mouth!

The "man" he knew was probably himself, but whoever it was, it was "over 14 years ago" at the time he wrote 2 Corinthians 12:1-6 2 Corinthians 12:1-6 (KJV) 1 It is not expedient for me doubtless to glory. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord. 2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up (Greek: ἁρπαγέντα = "harpagenta" = "seized away") to the third heaven. G726 ἁρπάζω harpázō, har-pad'-zo; from a derivative of G138; to seize (in various applications): —catch (away, up), pluck, pull, take (by force). It's a verb as a second aorist, passive participle in the accusative case, speaking in the third-person of a singular, masculine subject. There is no "up" associated with the verb. 3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) 4 How that he was caught up (Greek: ἡρπάγη = "heerpagee" [second aorist passive indicative, 3rd-person masculine singular] = "he-was-seized") INTO PARADISE, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter. 5 Of such an one will I glory: yet of myself I will not glory, but in mine infirmities. 6 For though I would desire to glory, I shall not be a fool; for I will say the truth: but [now] I forbear, lest any man should think of me above that which he seeth me [to be], or [that] he heareth of me. We KNOW where "paradise" is because Yeeshuwa` in Revelation 2 tells us this info: Revelation 2:1-7 (KJV) 1 "Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; "'These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks; 2 "'"I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars: 3 And hast borne, and hast patience, and for my name's sake hast laboured, and hast not fainted. 4 Nevertheless I have [somewhat] against thee, because thou hast left thy first love. 5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent. 6 But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate. 7 "'"He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God."'" And, where do we read about the "tree of life?" Revelation 22:1-5 (KJV) 1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb. 2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, [was there] the tree of life, which bare twelve [manner of] fruits, [and] yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree [were] for the healing of the nations. 3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him: 4 And they shall see his face; and his name [shall be] in their foreheads. 5 And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever. So, the Paradise of God is within the New Jerusalem in the middle of its street where the "pure river of water of life" flows, and on either side of that river grows the "tree of life!" And, a "paradise" (or "paradeisos" in Greek or "pardeec" in Hebrew) is a "park of trees!" No. This is the kind of nonsense that is propagated by an allegorical approach to Scirpture. We've got something more REAL, more TANGIBLE, more LITERAL that is SO beautiful, that we don't NEED such nonsense! Shed it like a snakeskin; it's just "pictures" that are cartoons of the truth! GRASP THE TRUTH INSTEAD! Really? That's not seen in Revelation.

Shalom, @In1. Well, actually Paul said this: 1 Corinthians 2:6-12 (KJV) 6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect (mature): yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought: 7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery (a secret), [even] the hidden [wisdom], which God ordained before the world unto our glory: 8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known [it], they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. 9 But as it is written, "Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him." (Isaiah 64:4). 10 But God hath revealed [them] unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. 11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. 12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; THAT WE MIGHT KNOW THE THINGS THAT ARE FREELY GIVEN TO US OF GOD. So, through the revelation of God, which He gives through His Spirit, we CAN know them, however our imagination is inferior to the reality God will bring. No, ... again ALWAYS check the context! Galatians 4:21-31 (KJV) 21 Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law? 22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one (Ishmael) by a bondmaid (Hagar, Genesis 16:1-16), the other (Isaac) by a freewoman (Sarah, Genesis 21:1-8). 23 But he [who was] of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman [was] by promise. 24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage (slavery), which is Agar. (Greek: Ἁγάρ = "Hagar," the rough breathing symbol in front of the Alpha gives the "h" sound) 25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children. 26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all. Now, it's important to understand the elevations in order to understand that the current Jerusalem IS higher than Mount Sinai: the elevation of Mount Sinai is 7,497 feet, while the elevation of Jerusalem is only 2,474 feet. HOWEVER, the BASE of Mount Sinai is at 5,090 feet! And, Jericho leading up to Jerusalem on the road that our Messiah took to Jerusalem is at -486 feet or 486 feet below sea level! So, the difference is the true height of each: Mount Sinai: 7,497 - 5,090 = 2,407 feet Jerusalem: 2,474 - (-486) = 2,960 feet! The difference being 2960 - 2407 = 553 feet! So, going from the lowest elevation of the Jordan River end of the Dead Sea area to the highest elevation in the area makes the Jerusalem area of the Zion moutain range taller than Mount Sinai. 27 For it is written, "Rejoice, [thou] barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband." (Isaiah 54:1) 28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise. 29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him [that was born] after the Spirit, even so [it is] now. 30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman. 31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free. Therefore, this passage of Scripture is comparing old Jerusalem (particularly the Old City) to Mount Sinai, and is NOT talking about the New Jerusalem at all. As far as the "bottomless pit" is concerned, the Greek wording is found in Revelation 9:1-12 as "ὁ φρέαρ τῆς ἀβύσσου" or "ho frear tees abussou" or "the pit of-the no-bottom," which means "the pit with an unsounded bottom." It was simply too deep to measure. Some take this to mean that it was "in the center of the earth." I, too, believed that way once. However, that would be too great a distance, and it makes better sense to understand this to be a pocket in the earth's crust or just below from which these locusts were said to emerge once the key coordinates were cracked open by a falling meteorite. The locusts that will emerge are probably an antediluvian species, trapped below the earth's layers of rock tossed during the Flood. Judging from the sound their wings make, they are probably as much bigger than modern locusts as griffinflies were larger than modern dragonflies. It is into this pit that haSatan will be chained and thrown for a thousand years.

Shalom, @In1. Nope. It's far more than that! A metaphor is saying "thing 1 IS thing 2." A simile is saying "thing 1 is LIKE thing 2." A prime example of each is found in Revelation 21: The simile is found in verse 2: Revelation 21:2 (KJV) 2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared AS a bride adorned for her husband. The metaphor is found in verses 9 and 10: Revelation 21:9-10 (KJV) 9 And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, "Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife!" 10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God, ... While some metaphors and similes are found within the book of Revelation, there is much ... well ... REVELATION, the UNCOVERING of truth and the future realities that we will share! There are several quotations from the "Old Testament" (the Tanakh) that modern Christians seldom recognize. The reality in both statements above is that the New Jerusalem, which is neither the metaphor nor the simile, is going to be SPECTACULAR AND AWESOME TO SEE! This city will be nearly 1,380 miles long, and wide, and HIGH! It doesn't "represent" anything! It will be our "house," and the whole, New Earth will be our "back yard!" John (Yochanan) saw this magnificent city descend to the New Earth, and after the city will have settled upon its first foundation of jasper, the twelve gates of pearl will be rolled away from the gateway openings by their attending angels, and the city will be "open for business!" Each of the foundations are foundational levels to the next portion of the city attached to its "wall great and high," as one goes upward toward the throneroom upon the final foundation of amethyst! With the Messiah - the Lamb of God - sitting upon His seat, that throne, the river of the water of life, which flows from the throne of God and of the Lamb, winding its way throughout the city in the median of the massive streets of gold, will begin to flow out the gates to the New Earth in twelve different compass directions! John initially may have noticed that "there was no more sea," but there will certainly be PLENTY of water, and it will be wholesome and pure, flowing energetically out of the gates and onto the New Earth! The waterfalls and the cascades within the city will be awesome to see, and every home within the city will be well supplied with water and with the fruit from the trees of the species known as the Tree of Life! And, healthy teas can be brewed from the leaves of these trees. See, one of my pastors in the past gave us this outline of the Bible: I. What aught to be - Genesis 1, 2 II. What is - Genesis 3 III. How to get from What is to What aught to be - Genesis 4-Revelation 22 While it may seem somewhat simplistic, it is EXTREMELY accurate! When one compares Genesis 1 and 2 to Revelation 21 and 22, one will find many similarities! When God first created the Earth and its Sky (the heavens and the earth), God declared it to be "very good." But, He is a PERFECT GOD and CREATOR of all we see, no matter how big our telescopes become! And, He is intricately and intimately involved with His Creation down to the last neutrino and subatomic particle! Therefore, when a PERFECT GOD declares something to be "very good," it is as perfect an environment as one could hope to see! However, that perfection was marred with sin after the fall in Genesis 3, and the decay and destruction that follows that sin. While still quite beautiful after the Flood of Noah's day, we live in an environment now that is far different than that before the Flood, and the layers and layers of death and destruction we find in the rocks are a testimony to the evil that existed before the Flood and the relentless wrath of God upon that world! God was PURGING that environment, washing away the filth! We now live in a world that is destined for the Fire, which will be just as devastating for this earth. NEVERTHELESS, God will re-create the New Earth from the ashes of the old, and we will have a perfect environment once again. This is why I say, we don't "go to Heaven"; rather, "Heaven (the New Jerusalem) comes to us!"

Shalom, @Diaste. I was agreeing with you until this point. "Jew is a religion, not the people of God" is wrong. A "Jew" is literally a "child of Judah," and Judah was one of the twelve sons of Israel (who was first called Jacob). He is also one of the Messiah's grandfathers, though a son of Israel and a grandson of Isaac and a great grandson of Abraham. Let's talk about the religion for a moment.... Judaism is a way for the children of Judah to be able to worship YHWH God of the Bible, lacking the Temple and the Temple practices. They keep the reading of the Torah (the Pentateuch) alive and serious students study the Tanakh (the OT) daily! They learn the prophecies about the Messiah (even if they don't yet know who He is), and daily pray for the future blessings to begin. Many are DEDICATED to the austerity and holiness of God! Their religion is a "stop-gap" and is a temporary fix until God has intervened and allowed His Messiah to come. They ARE the people of God! They are the people of the Book! They are the Messiah's physical family! There's no undoing that! Now, their "blindness" is "in part" after all. And, the "blindness" can be lifted for each child of Israel who learns the truth of who the Messiah is and that He's been here before! It's not a "sudden lifting" of the veil; some are learning the truth today! Messianic Judaism is making headway within national Israel, and they are being told who the Messiah truily is! Furthermore, many are coming to God for His righteousness provided by The Son of God, Yeeshuwa`, and are being Justified by God and are born again. What's important to understand is that "Christians" are not the group of believing Jews and belleving Gentiles. It is the Kingdom of the Messiah that is the collection of believing Jews and Christians (believing Gentiles) who comprise the subjects of His Kingdom. It's a subtle shift, but a necessary shift if one is to understand the Scriptures better. It's not just a matter of semantics.

Shalom, @The Light. No, that's not right! The "souls" - the "air-breathing creatures" - that are at the foot of the altar ARE bodies that have already been resurrected and are BREATHING AGAIN! That's what a "soul" is! Beautiful words that are FULL of meaning, and I agree with every last word! Nope! He doesn't SAY that "He is going to take us there after we have been received to Himself!" He ONLY promised that we would always be with Him once we've been received! When He returns, He won't be in "Heaven" (the New Jerusalem) anymore! He will be RIGHT HERE ON THIS EARTH! No, He doesn't say that at all! He takes us to Himself, as He begins to REIGN IN JERUSALEM, after first purging His Land of the heathen invaders! Oh, so your take is that it only takes one year - not seven - for God to pour out His wrath. That's fine, as long as one doesn't call it "tribulation." YHWH God DOES pour out His wrath on certain human beings, but not all humanity, AND He does this with "His Strong Right Arm," His Messiah, Yeeshuwa`, who shall be KILLING His enemies, and SUBDUING all of His enemies' nations until He is reigning over all the earth! We'll already be here, and Har-Megiddown is PART of God's Wrath! Just how long ago was this? Do you know? What and where and when was "Ba'al -Peor?" ("בַעַל פְּעוֹר") It was first mentioned in Numbers 25:3ff! H1187 בַּעַל פְּעוֹר Baʻal Pᵉʻôwr, bah'-al peh-ore'; from H1168 and H6465; Baal of Peor; Baal-Peor, a Moabitish deity:—Baal-peor. It means "Lord of the Gap!" The children of Israel first encountered it when they were marching on the east side of the Dead Sea as they approached the land of Moab (one of the sons of Lot) who dwelt on the east side of the Jordan River, where the Kingdom of Jordan is today. They hadn't even gone into the Land, yet! It was one of their first challenges, and God had those who committed that atrocity KILLED for their idolatry before they could move on! It is recounted both here in Hosea 9:10 and in Psalm 106:28. One should be VERY CAREFUL in one's handling of Scripture. While the usage of the word "firstfruits" (Greek: "ἀπαρχὴ") is context-sensitive, this is a misappropriation of Scripture! Here's the passage in question: Revelation 14:1-5 (KJV) 1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion (So, He is already back on the earth, on Mount Tsiy'own in Jerusalem!), and with him an hundred forty [and] four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads (and they've already been sealed). 2 And I heard a voice from heaven (Greek: φωνὴν ἐκ τοῦ οὐρανοῦ = "fooneen ek tou ouranou" = "a-voice out of-the sky"), as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder (It's an amplified sound system!): and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps: 3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred [and] forty [and] four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth (bought back from the ground). (It's a giant CHOIR with accompaniment!) 4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, [being] the firstfruits unto God (Greek: ἀπαρχὴ τῷ θεῷ = "aparchee too Theoo" = "firstfruits to-the God") and to the Lamb. 5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God (which also indicates that it is already on earth, because Yeeshuwa` "returns having received the Kingdom," Luke 19:15, and He doesn't sit upon the throne of His glory until "the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him"). This part of the Olivet Discourse has ALREADY HAPPENED back in 66-67 A.D! It was THEN that they fled from Jerusalem, over the mountains of Israel, across the Jordan to regroup in the town of Pella in the Decapolis! This part of the Olivet Discourse is still in our future. No, "the tribulation of those days" is a "GREAT TRIBULATION" BECAUSE it has lasted so long! It started in the past with the escape from Jerusalem before the Temple was destroyed, and it has lasted throughout history until today, and it will continue to happen until our Lord returns. It's been almost 2,000 YEARS of tribulation or pressure! Fortunately, it has not been a relentless pressure, but there have been reprieves through the years, times when the children of Israel, particularly the Jews, could rebuild their numbers a bit. This is what Yeeshuwa` meant by saying, Matthew 24:22 (KJV) 22 "And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened." These are not "the days" of the entire period of pressure, but they are "the days of pressure" WITHIN the entire period that were/are being shortened. So much were they curtailed, that we have names for the individual pressures they faced throughout the last 2,000 years, such as "Roman persecutions," "Inquisitions," "Crusades," "Pogroms," the "Holocaust," and the various terrorist threats down through the years.

Shabbat shalom, @DeighAnn. No! That's what I'm talking about! This is the new-fangled, gibberish that makes NO SENSE within Scripture! A person doesn't get his or her "spiritual body" at his or her death, when the "seed is planted" in the ground! What even does that mean?! A body made out of the "WIND?!" That's NOT what Paul was talking about in 1 Corinthians: (I'm going to give the Greek of that paragraph after each paragraph.) 1 Corinthians 15:35-57 (KJV) 35 But some [man] will say, "How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?" 36 [Thou] fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die: 37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other [grain]: 38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body. 35 ἀλλ’ ἐρεῖ τις, "Πῶς ἐγείρονται οἱ νεκροί; ποίῳ δὲ σώματι ἔρχονται;" 36 Ἄφρον, σὺ ὃ σπείρεις, οὐ ζωοποιεῖται ἐὰν μὴ ἀποθάνῃ· 37 καὶ ὃ σπείρεις, οὐ τὸ σῶμα τὸ γενησόμενον σπείρεις, ἀλλὰ γυμνὸν κόκκον εἰ τύχοι, σίτου ἤ τινος τῶν λοιπῶν· 38 ὁ δὲ Θεὸς αὐτῷ δίδωσι σῶμα καθὼς ἠθέλησε, καὶ ἑκάστῳ τῶν σπερμάτων τὸ ἴδιον σῶμα. 39 All flesh [is] not the same flesh: but [there is] one [kind of] flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, [and] another of birds. 39 οὐ πᾶσα σὰρξ ἡ αὐτὴ σάρξ· ἀλλὰ ἄλλη μὲν σὰρξ ἀνθρώπων, ἄλλη δὲ σὰρξ κτηνῶν, ἄλλη δὲ ἰχθύων, ἄλλη δὲ πτηνῶν. 40 [There are] also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial [is] one, and the [glory] of the terrestrial [is] another. 41 [There is] one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for [one] star differeth from [another] star in glory. 40 καὶ σώματα ἐπουράνια, καὶ σώματα ἐπίγεια· ἀλλ’ ἑτέρα μὲν ἡ τῶν ἐπουρανίων δόξα, ἑτέρα δὲ ἡ τῶν ἐπιγείων. 41 ἄλλη δόξα ἡλίου, καὶ ἄλλη δόξα σελήνης, καὶ ἄλλη δόξα ἀστέρων· ἀστὴρ γὰρ ἀστέρος διαφέρει ἐν δόξῃ. 42 So also [is] the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: 43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: 44 It is sown a natural body; it is RAISED a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. 45 And so it is written, "The first man Adam was made a living soul"; (Genesis 2:7) the last Adam [was made] a quickening spirit. 42 οὕτω καὶ ἡ ἀνάστασις τῶν νεκρῶν. σπείρεται ἐν φθορᾷ, ἐγείρεται ἐν ἀφθαρσίᾳ· 43 σπείρεται ἐν ἀτιμίᾳ, ἐγείρεται ἐν δόξῃ· σπείρεται ἐν ἀσθενείᾳ, ἐγείρεται ἐν δυνάμει· 44 σπείρεται σῶμα ψυχικόν, ἘΓΕΊΡΕΤΑΙ σῶμα πνευματικόν. ἔστι σῶμα ψυχικόν, καὶ ἔστι σῶμα πνευματικόν. 45 οὕτω καὶ γέγραπται, Ἐγένετο ὁ πρῶτος ἄνθρωπος Ἀδὰμ εἰς ψυχὴν ζωσαν. (Genesis 2:7) ὁ ἔσχατος Ἀδὰμ εἰς πνεῦμα ζωοποιοῦν. 46 Howbeit that [was] NOT FIRST which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and AFTERWARD that which is spiritual. 46 ἀλλ’ οὐ πρῶτον τὸ πνευματικὸν, ἀλλὰ τὸ ψυχικόν, ἔπειτα τὸ πνευματικόν. (The body goes into the ground as a "sooma psuchikon," a "body breathing"; it comes out of the ground as a "sooma pneumatikon," a "body blasting!" There is NO "spiritual body" before a person is conceived, and the breathing body comes FIRST!) 47 The first man [is] of the earth, earthy: the second man [is] the Lord from heaven. 48 As [is] the earthy, such [are] they also that are earthy: and as [is] the heavenly, such [are] they also that are heavenly. 49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. 47 ὁ πρῶτος ἄνθρωπος ἐκ γῆς χοϊκός ὁ δεύτερος ἄνθρωπος ὁ Κύριος ἐξ οὐρανοῦ. 48 οἷος ὁ χοϊκός· τοιοῦτοι καὶ οἱ χοϊκοί, καὶ οἷος ὁ ἐπουράνιος, τοιοῦτοι καὶ οἱ ἐπουράνιοι· 49 καὶ καθὼς ἐφορέσαμεν τὴν εἰκόνα τοῦ χοϊκοῦ, φορέσομεν καὶ τὴν εἰκόνα τοῦ ἐπουρανίου. 50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. 50 Τοῦτο δέ φημι, ἀδελφοί, ὅτι σὰρξ καὶ αἷμα βασιλείαν Θεοῦ κληρονομῆσαι οὐ δύνανται, οὐδὲ ἡ φθορὰ τὴν ἀφθαρσίαν κληρονομεῖ. (But, our Lord Yeeshuwa` said after His resurrection that He had "flesh and bones!" - Luke 24:39. And, I believe that Yeeshuwa` will be the FIRST HEIR of God's Kingdom as its representative King, the Son of God, representing His Father to mankind!) 51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, AT THE LAST TRUMP: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal [must] put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, "Death is swallowed up in victory. (Isaiah 25:8) 55 "O death, where [is] thy sting? O grave, where [is] thy victory?" (Hosea 13:14) 56 The sting of death [is] sin; and the strength of sin [is] the law. 57 But thanks [be] to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. 51 ἰδοὺ, μυστήριον ὑμῖν λέγω· Πάντες μὲν οὐ κοιμηθησόμεθα, πάντες δὲ ἀλλαγησόμεθα, 52 ἐν ἀτόμῳ, ἐν ῥιπῇ ὀφθαλμοῦ, ἘΝ ΤΗ͂Ι ἘΣΧΆΤΗΙ ΣΆΛΠΙΓΓΙ· σαλπίσει γάρ, καὶ οἱ νεκροὶ ἐγερθήσονται ἄφθαρτοι, καὶ ἡμεῖς ἀλλαγησόμεθα. 53 δεῖ γὰρ τὸ φθαρτὸν τοῦτο ἐνδύσασθαι ἀφθαρσίαν, καὶ τὸ θνητὸν τοῦτο ἐνδύσασθαι ἀθανασίαν. 54 ὅταν δὲ τὸ φθαρτὸν τοῦτο ἐνδύσηται ἀφθαρσίαν, καὶ τὸ θνητὸν τοῦτο ἐνδύσηται ἀθανασίαν, τότε γενήσεται ὁ λόγος ὁ γεγραμμένος, "Κατεπόθη ὁ θάνατος εἰς νῖκος." (Isaiah 25:8) 55 "Ποῦ σου, θάνατε, τὸ κέντρον; ποῦ σου, ᾅδη, τὸ νῖκος;" (Hosea 13:14) 56 τὸ δὲ κέντρον τοῦ θανάτου ἡ ἁμαρτία· ἡ δὲ δύναμις τῆς ἁμαρτίας ὁ νόμος· 57 τῷ δὲ Θεῷ χάρις τῷ διδόντι ἡμῖν τὸ νῖκος διὰ τοῦ Κυρίου ἡμῶν Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ. NO! This is NOT true. That's not how it works! We're not "raised to life to go to Heaven when we die!" We die, and we AWAIT the Resurrection at the Trumpet Call, and THEN we are raised to life to go into Eternity AS transformed bodies! THAT'S what Paul said here! And, as I've already said to @The Light, Eternal life does NOT necessitate CONTINUITY of life. The Bible is replete with examples of people dying, just as they do today. Their bodies lie in the ground or in tombs or sepulchers, and they await the resurrection, just as people we know that have died are awaiting that same resurrection. Listen carefully to Yeeshuwa`s words in His answer to the Tsduqiym ("Sadducees"): Matthew 22:23-33 (KJV) 23 The same day came to him the Sadducees, which say that there is no resurrection, and asked him, 24 Saying, "Master, Moses said, 'If a man die, having no children, his brother shall marry his wife, and raise up seed unto his brother.' 25 "Now there were with us seven brethren: and the first, when he had married a wife, deceased, and, having no issue, left his wife unto his brother: 26 Likewise the second also, and the third, unto the seventh. 27 And last of all the woman died also. 28 Therefore in the resurrection whose wife shall she be of the seven? for they all had her." 29 Jesus answered and said unto them, "Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God. 30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven. 31 "But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying, 32 'I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob'? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living!" 33 And when the multitude heard [this], they were astonished at his doctrine. Now, let's put on our thinking caps a moment: Each of these men, 'AVraahaam, Yitschaq, and Ya`aqoV DIED and were BURIED all in the same cave near Hebron! So, what was Yeeshuwa` talking about when He said, "as touching the resurrection of the dead?" He was saying that they would all three be RAISED TO LIFE FROM THE DEAD AT HIS COMING!! The wording would be different if He was saying that they were "taken to heaven after they died!" Furthermore, why would that be a proof of the Resurrection? It would be a non sequitur! It wouldn't follow His line of reasoning! The promise - the "Blessed Hope" - IS the RESURRECTION FROM THE DEAD!

Shabbat shalom, @The Light. Actually, we've been told a lie that was propagated by Christians influenced by Greek philosophy and theology since the late First Century A.D! Eternal life does NOT necessitate CONTINUITY of life. The Bible is replete with examples of people dying, just as they do today. Their bodies lie in the ground or in tombs or sepulchers, and they await the resurrection, just as people we know that have died are awaiting that same resurrection. Listen carefully to Yeeshuwa`s words in His answer to the Tsduqiym ("Sadducees"): Matthew 22:23-33 (KJV) 23 The same day came to him the Sadducees, which say that there is no resurrection, and asked him, 24 Saying, "Master, Moses said, 'If a man die, having no children, his brother shall marry his wife, and raise up seed unto his brother.' 25 "Now there were with us seven brethren: and the first, when he had married a wife, deceased, and, having no issue, left his wife unto his brother: 26 Likewise the second also, and the third, unto the seventh. 27 And last of all the woman died also. 28 Therefore in the resurrection whose wife shall she be of the seven? for they all had her." 29 Jesus answered and said unto them, "Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God. 30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven. 31 "But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying, 32 'I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob'? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living!" 33 And when the multitude heard [this], they were astonished at his doctrine. Now, let's put on our thinking caps a moment: Each of these men, 'AVraahaam, Yitschaq, and Ya`aqoV DIED and were BURIED all in the same cave near Hebron! So, what was Yeeshuwa` talking about when He said, "as touching the resurrection of the dead?" He was saying that they would all three be RAISED TO LIFE FROM THE DEAD! The wording would be different if He was saying that they were "taken to heaven after they died!" Furthermore, why would that be a proof of the Resurrection? It would be a non sequitur! It wouldn't follow the line of reasoning! The promise - the "Blessed Hope" - IS the RESURRECTION FROM THE DEAD! And, if we were already IN "eternal bliss" in Heaven, then why would we even NEED our bodies? Why have a "resurrection" at all?! It would be pointless! Furthermore, many theologians and pastors are begiining to reason that way: Why DO we need a resurrection? And, they are beginning to conclude that one is "resurrected spiritually" when they die and go to Heaven! BUT, they don't get this from the Bible! Now, let's think about the "rapture." The word itself comes from the Latin translation of a form of the Greek word "harpazoo" in... 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17 (KJV) 13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive [and] remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up (Greek: ἁρπαγησόμεθα = "harpageesometha" = "we-shall-be-seized," with no direction of "up" in the word, by the way) together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. And, "So shall we ever be with the Lord." Since YHWH God ("the LORD God") is infinite and omnipresent, the "Lord" here refers to Yeeshuwa`, since we are ALREADY WITH the LORD God. However, one should notice that these verses NEVER say WHERE we're going NEXT! They merely promise that we will go wherever HE goes! So, having just come back from "Heaven," where would He go from there? BACK to "Heaven?" That wouldn't be very practical. Also, we read John 14:1-3 where Yeeshuwa` said, John 14:1-3 (KJV) 1 "Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. 2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if [it were] not [so], I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, [there] ye may be also." But, one should notice that here, too, He never says that we're going to those "mansions!" He doesn't promise that! He doesn't promise us that we will be "going to Heaven" at all! He's merely telling His disciples what He will be doing while He's gone! However, if He has returned to earth, and we'll be with Him wherever He is, then it truly depends on where He is going next where we will go! TWICE now, He NEVER said He was taking us back with Him to "Heaven!" That is ASSUMED by those who believe in the rapture theory as taught by some pastors and evangelists. John also wrote the Revelation and Revelation 21 and 22 talk about the city that will descend to the New Earth, called "the New Jerusalem," which is said to be the "Father's Bedouin tent," a "skeenee" in Greek, His HOUSE! WE don't go to IT; IT comes here to US! Always do, and I also read Zechariah 12-14 and Isaiah 62:1-66:24! When He returns, He will be eaten up by the zeal of the LORD! He will be ready to dish out a recompense upon His enemies and rescue His people from attempted genocide! No. In 1 Corinthians 15:20-28, the word "firstfruits" is SINGULAR! And, YEESHUWA` ALONE is that "firstfruits!" If you're still thinking of the "tribulation" as a "7-year period" or shorter still in the future, then you're not understanding the word translated as "tribulation." The Greek word is "#" or "thilpsis" and is referring to the PRESSURE put upon those who refused to let Him be their King - GOD'S King - in the First Century. They are already IN the "tribulation" and have been so since He pronounced them "desolate" in Matthew 23:38. In the Olivet Discourse, the first occurrence of the Greek word is in Matthew 24:9! Its beginning was 40 years after Yeeshuwa`s death, burial, resurrection, and ascension, when the Temple was destroyed. The Jewish believers left 2-3 years prior to that desecration, as they were warned to do. Therefore, there's no "pretrib rapture," because we're already IN the tribulation, which is going on 20o0 years!!

Shalom, @truth7t7. I wonder how it's going to feel to the person who must RETRACT such a statement PUBLICLY in the Messiah's Kingdom! That will probably be VERY HUMILIATING!

Shabbat shalom, @The Light. Just a few points: First, the "rapture" (harpagenta) will be a MASS TRANSIT SYSTEM to get us all to the Middle East on the double! The Messiah is going to be coming back ONCE and His first mission will be to rescue the children of Israel from the neighboring Muslim countries! Second, the Judgment Seat of Christ (which is claimed to be during the 7 years) will actually occur UPON THE EARTH when the Messiah begins His reign in Jerusalem. As I said before, the JOB of a King of Israel is to be the SUPREME COURT JUDGE! He will be judging THROUGHOUT the Millennium and beyond! Third, the Marriage Supper of the Lamb occurs in Israel when He returns. He said at the Last Supper, Matthew 26:29 (KJV) 29 "But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom." But we learn in His FIRST recorded miracle that wine is an INTRICATE PART of a marriage supper! And, He will be reigning over His Father's Kingdom AFTER He has returned. He aiso said, Matthew 25:31 (KJV) 31 "When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:" This happens right before Satan is chained in the Bottomless Pit and He is chained for a thousand years. Furthermore, "glory" is not a place; it's His BRIGHTNESS! And, He gave us even more details in the parable of the Wheat and the Tares in Matthew 13: The "wheat" and the "tares" don't happen until He is reigning. He said in His explanation of the parable, Matthew 13:36-43 (KJV) 36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, "Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field." 37 He answered and said unto them, "He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; 38 The field is the world (the world-sytem of government); the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked [one]; 39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world (age); and the reapers are the angels. 40 "As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world (age). 41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; 42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear." And, we should compare this with the Resurrections that Paul talked about in 1 Corinthians 15: 1 Corinthians 15:20-28 (KJV) 20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, [and] become the firstfruits of them that slept. 21 For since by man [came] death, by man [came] also the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive (resurrected). 23 But every man in his own order: (0) Christ the firstfruits; (This happened in the First Century.) (1) afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. 24 (This happens at the Second Coming.) (2) Then [cometh] the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. (This happens at the transition point when the Messiah turns the World Empire over to His Father, and goes on reigning over Israel as subordinate to the Father, after the 1,000 years and the GWTJ prior to the Eternal State of the New Earth and Sky, with the New Jerusalem landing upon the New Earth.) 25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy [that] shall be destroyed [is] death. 27 For "he (God the Father) hath put all things under his (the Messiah's) feet. [But when he saith "all things are put under [him," it is] manifest (obvious) that "he" is excepted, which did "put all things under him."} 28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him (the Messiah, the Son of God), then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him (God the Father) that put all things under him, that God may be all in all. And, this in in sync with Psalm 2:1-12: Psalm 2:1-12 (KJV) 1 Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing? 2 The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed (His Messiah), [saying], 3 "Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us!" 4 He that sitteth in the heavens SHALL LAUGH: the Lord (the Messiah) SHALL HAVE THEM IN DERISION (SHALL MAKE FUN OF THEM)! 5 Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure. 6 "Yet have I set MY king upon my holy hill of Zion! 7 I will declare the decree: "'the LORD hath said unto me, "'"Thou [art] my Son; this day have I begotten thee. 8 Ask of me, and I shall give [thee] the heathen [for] thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth [for] thy possession. 9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel."' 10 "Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth. 11 Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling. 12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish [from] the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little! Blessed [are] all they that put their trust in HIM!" This is a FUTURE U.N. MEETING, and THE FATHER AND THE SON crash the party! As the Messiah grows the WORLD EMPIRE of His Father, they will have NO SAY in who can opt out! He is the KING OF KINGS, a WORLD EMPEROR, and He will be a benevolent dictator in that role. When the Messiah is reigning over all the earth, then He turns that Empire over to His Father, but He goes on reigning over Israel, for Gabriel said, Luke 1:30-33 (KJV) 30 And the angel said unto her, "Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found FAVOUR with God! 31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name 'JESUS.' 32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: 33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob FOR EVER; and of his kingdom THERE SHALL BE NO END!"

Shalom, @Keras. Really? He waits that long after His sign is seen in the sun, moon, and stars event of the sixth seal, and they've already seen the One from whose face they ran and hid? Why would He appear in the sky and then wait MONTHS to land?! Consider the words of the Messiah Himself: Luke 19:11-27 (KJV) 11 And as they heard these things, he added and spake a parable, because he was nigh to Jerusalem, and because they thought that the kingdom of God should immediately appear. 12 He said therefore, "A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return. 13 And he called his ten servants, and delivered them ten pounds, and said unto them, "'Occupy till I come.' 14 "But his citizens hated him, and sent a message after him, saying, "'We will not have this [man] to reign over us!' 15 "And it came to pass, that when he was returned, having received the kingdom, then he commanded these servants to be called unto him, to whom he had given the money, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading. 16 Then came the first, saying, "'Lord, thy pound hath gained ten pounds.' 17 "And he said unto him, "'Well, thou good servant: because thou hast been faithful in a very little, have thou authority over ten cities.' 18 "And the second came, saying, "'Lord, thy pound hath gained five pounds.' 19 "And he said likewise to him, "'Be thou also over five cities.' 20 "And another came, saying, "'Lord, behold, [here is] thy pound, which I have kept laid up in a napkin: 21 For I feared thee, because thou art an austere man: thou takest up that thou layedst not down, and reapest that thou didst not sow.' 22 "And he saith unto him, "'Out of thine own mouth will I judge thee, [thou] wicked servant. Thou knewest that I was an austere man, taking up that I laid not down, and reaping that I did not sow: 23 Wherefore then gavest not thou my money into the bank, that at my coming I might have required mine own with usury?' 24 "And he said unto them that stood by, "'Take from him the pound, and give [it] to him that hath ten pounds.' 25 "(And they said unto him, "'Lord, he hath ten pounds!') 26 "'For I say unto you, That unto every one which hath shall be given; and from him that hath not, even that he hath shall be taken away from him. 27 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay [them] before me!' " And, don't forget the OT prophecies, such as in Zechariah: Zechariah 12:1-14 (KJV) 1 "The burden of the word of the LORD for Israel," saith the LORD, which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man within him. 2 "Behold, I will make Jerusalem a cup of trembling unto all the people round about, when they shall be in the siege both against Judah [and] against Jerusalem. 3 And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces (shall herniate themselves), though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it. 4 In that day," saith the LORD, "I will smite every horse with astonishment, and his rider with madness: and I will open mine eyes upon the house of Judah, and will smite every horse of the people with blindness. 5 And the governors of Judah shall say in their heart, "'The inhabitants of Jerusalem [shall be] my strength in the LORD of hosts their God.' 6 "In that day will I make the governors of Judah like an hearth of fire among the wood, and like a torch of fire in a sheaf; and they shall devour all the people round about, on the right hand and on the left: and Jerusalem shall be inhabited again in her own place, [even] in Jerusalem. 7 The LORD also shall save the tents of Judah first, that the glory of the house of David and the glory of the inhabitants of Jerusalem do not magnify [themselves] against Judah. 8 In that day shall the LORD defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David [shall be] as God, as 'the angel of the LORD' before them. 9 And it shall come to pass in that day, [that] I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem. 10 "And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: And they shall look upon me whom they have pierced," "... and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for [his] only [son], and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for [his] firstborn. 11 "In that day shall there be a great mourning in Jerusalem, as the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the valley of Megiddon. 12 And the land shall mourn, every family apart; the family of the house of David (Hebrew: מִשְׁפַּ֨חַת בֵּית־דָּוִ֤יד) apart, and their wives apart; the family of the house of Nathan (Hebrew: מִשְׁפַּ֤חַת בֵּית־נָתָן֙) apart, and their wives apart; 13 The family of the house of Levi (Hebrew: מִשְׁפַּ֤חַת בֵּית־לֵוִי֙) apart, and their wives apart; the family of Shimei (Hebrew: מִשְׁפַּ֤חַת הַשִּׁמְעִי֙) apart, and their wives apart; 14 All the families that remain, every family apart, and their wives apart." Again, one will find these names in this order (reversed) in the Messiah's lineage recorded in Luke 3:26-31. Oh! Long before that, my brother! When the Bible talks about the "Judgment Seat of Christ," that's the JOB of an Israeli King! He is Israel's "Supreme Court Justice!" From the moment He starts to reign, He'll be judging His people and those who have ventured into His Land! That, of course, will include the nations who had a part in the battles known in Greek as "Armageddon," or in Hebrew, "Har Megiddown" (which is called "Tel Megiddo" today)! It will be a series of battles that are waged throughout the Land of Yhudah ("Judah") and across the Mountains of Israel, until it ends in the Geey-Yizr'a`eel ("Valley of Jezreel"), east of Haifa, sitting below Har Megiddown. That "virtual demise of Judah" was ONLY for that generation! What Paul did was OPEN UP God's family to the Gentiles, while eliminating the "sons of Belial" within the children of Israel. "Christians" is too nebulous a word today. HOWEVER, it's important to realize that the Jewish population, the children of Yhudah (along with those from other tribes that associated with the Southern Kingdom), even if blinded TEMPORARILY to the Truth, will accept Him as their King with welcome and pride when their eyes are opened to their HERO! One would be wise in NOT writing them off as a nation. They are, after all the LITERAL relatives and family of Yeeshuwa` the Messiah of God.

Shalom, @Keras. See, this is what comes from not understanding that "soul" MEANS an "air-breathing creature!" The Resurrection did NOT happen at Yeeshuwa`s ("Jesus'") Ascension! But, the Resurrection is ESSENTIAL for having people "BREATHE" again! Thus, the Fifth Seal IS the Resurrection! It's just that they are not AVENGED until all have been killed and resurrected! Then, they are ALL avenged at the same time! And, this will be when the Messiah routes all of His enemies out of His Land! Zechariah 12-14 tell this account better than does Revelation: You're right in that the modern nation of Israel DOES allow people to become citizens for several reasons. Here's what Google will research for us: PATHS TO ISRAELI CITIZENSHIP: Birth: Children born in Israel to at least one Israeli citizen parent are automatically citizens. Descent: Individuals with Jewish ancestry, including children and grandchildren of Jews, can apply for citizenship. Marriage: Spouses of Israeli citizens can apply for citizenship after living together in Israel for a specific period, typically 5 years. Other Cases: There are also special cases for citizenship, such as for individuals who were born in Israel before a certain date, or who were residents of certain areas prior to the establishment of the state. Aliyah (Immigration) under the Law of Return: This is the primary path for Jews and those with Jewish ancestry. It allows them to immigrate to Israel and automatically become citizens. Naturalization: Non-Jewish individuals can apply for citizenship after meeting specific requirements, including residency, language proficiency, and renouncing their previous nationalities. KEY REQUIREMENTS: Jewish Ancestry: For citizenship under the Law of Return, individuals must prove their Jewish lineage through documentation. Residency: For naturalization, individuals must demonstrate that they have resided in Israel for a specific period, typically 3 years, while holding permanent residency. Language Proficiency: Hebrew language proficiency is often a requirement for naturalization. Renunciation of Previous Citizenship: Non-Jewish individuals naturalizing in Israel are usually required to renounce their previous nationalities. Loyalty Oath: Citizenship applicants may be required to take an oath of loyalty to Israel. Important Notes: The specific requirements and procedures for obtaining Israeli citizenship can vary depending on the individual's circumstances and the path they are taking. It's recommended to consult with the Israeli government or legal professionals for accurate and up-to-date information on the process. So, yes, many citizens of the state of Israel are NOT "children of Israel" by birth, BUT the majority ARE "children of Israel," and if their lineage is from the tribe of Yhudah, then they are also "Jews." One might be confused by those who adhere to the practices of faith in the Jewish religion, often referred to as "Judaism," but that is NOT what makes a person a "Jew."

Shalom, @Mr. M. It's not about convenience or logic; it's about the WORDING! The word "sh'owl" is NOT a word that means "the bottomless pit" or the "pit with an unsounded bottom." And, it CERTAINLY DOES NOT refer to the "CORE" or "CENTER" of the earth! The Hebrew word "שְׁאוֹל" or "sh'owl" (commonly written "sheol") carries this definition: H7585 שְׁאוֹל shᵉʼôwl, sheh-ole'; or שְׁאֹל shᵉʼôl; from H7592; hades or the world of the dead (as if a subterranean retreat), including its accessories and inmates: —grave, hell, pit. But, this "definition" shows how ENTRENCHED the spurious definitions have been exchanged in the past! Modern Christianity has been RIDICULOUSLY influenced by what Randy Alcorn calls "Christoplatonism!" s "Christianized Neo-Platonism" from Greek influence in the late 100s to 300s A.D. The word in Hebrew means "asked about" and it refers to the place where parents would take their children to honor their dead. They would take them to the gravesite, tomb, or sepulcher and their children would ASK their parents ABOUT their loved ones, giving the parents the opportunity to pass on their stories. NOTE; all that is left of the truth of the meaning in Hebrew is found in the words "from H7592"! H7592 שָׁאַל shâʼal, shaw-al'; or שָׁאֵל shâʼêl; a primitive root; to inquire; by implication, to request; by extension, to demand: —ask (counsel, on), beg, borrow, lay to charge, consult, demand, desire, ×earnestly, enquire, greet, obtain leave, lend, pray, request, require, salute, × straitly, × surely, wish. It is similar to the name "שָׁאוּל" or "Shaa'uwl" or "Saul": H7586 שָׁאוּל Shâʼûwl, shaw-ool'; passive participle of H7592; asked; Shaul, the name of an Edomite and two Israelites: —Saul, Shaul. We're not told why Shaa'uwl was so named, but like Hannah before him, when "God heard" her prayer for a son and her son was named "שְׁמוּאֵל" or "Shmuw'eel" or "Samuel," meaning "heard of God," his parents may also have "ASKED" God "FOR" a son, and when God granted their request, he was so named, "Asked-for." EVERY NAME in Hebrew means something! Do you even realize what the diameter of the earth is? The diameter of the earth is said to be 7926.2 MILES at the equator! That means that the CENTER of the earth would be half of that below earth's surface - 3938.1 MILES DEEP! But, the earth is comprised of an inner core, an outer core, a mantle, and the cooled crust on top of the mantle, according to sonic measurements from blasts and earthquakes. We have movies and books about going through the earth, such as "The Core," and Journey to the Center of the Earth, and "Godzilla Vs. King Cong," but NO ONE has even dug deeper than the Kola Superdeep Borehole. Google tells us, The Kola Superdeep Borehole, located in Russia, is the deepest hole ever dug by humans. It reaches a depth of 12,262 meters (40,230 feet). This is equivalent to 7.6 miles or 12.2 kilometers. Now, scientists believe that there is a pocket, a layer, between the crust and the mantle that grows hot enough to melt rock due to friction, creating magma under pressure. And, when an earthquake or volcano breaks through to this layer, the magma flows out of the volcano or earthquake as lava. But, we really have no empirical evidence for what lies deeper than that. Most of it is determined by seismic charges that are set off and measured for echo timing. Most graves are said to be "six feet deep." However, we know that there are some who have been buried deeper than that in mine collapses and sink holes, but the crust is only about 5 to 70 kilometers thick, or 3 to 44 miles thick, and usually thinner at the bottom of the oceans. Also, those "buried at sea" are most often eaten by the life under the sea, and the remaining debris eventually becomes a part of the ocean bottom. It depends on various factors, such as ocean undercurrents and any attached weights, but this will not deny the Master of Life and Death to call them back to life for judgment. All death is a death at the level of the earth's crust, even those deaths that occurred in the Flood of Noach's time. Sure, the "fountains of the deep were broken up," but they were still a part of the earth's crust, under pressure by the sheer volume and mass of material above them. Ychezk'eel ("Ezekiel") is here talking about the King of Tyre (or Tsor, in Hebrew): Ezekiel 28:1-19 (KJV) 1 The word of the LORD came again unto me, saying, 2 "Son of man, say unto the prince of Tyrus, "'Thus saith the Lord GOD; "'"Because thine heart [is] lifted up, and thou hast said, 'I [am] a God, I sit [in] the seat of God, in the midst of the seas'; yet thou [art] a man, and not God, though thou set thine heart as the heart of God: 3 Behold, thou [art] wiser than Daniel; there is no secret that they can hide from thee: 4 With thy wisdom and with thine understanding thou hast gotten thee riches, and hast gotten gold and silver into thy treasures: 5 By thy great wisdom [and] by thy traffick (as a seaport) hast thou increased thy riches, and thine heart is lifted up because of thy riches:" 6 "'Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; "'"Because thou hast set thine heart as the heart of God; 7 Behold, therefore I will bring strangers upon thee, the terrible of the nations: and they shall draw their swords against the beauty of thy wisdom, and they shall defile thy brightness. 8 They shall bring thee down to the pit (Hebrew: לַשַּׁחַת = 'lashshachat' = 'to-the-pit/trap/corruption/ditch/grave'), and thou shalt die the deaths of [them that are] slain in the midst of the seas. H7845 שַׁחַת shachath (shachat), shakh'-ath; from H7743; a pit (especially as a trap); figuratively, destruction: —corruption, destruction, ditch, grave, pit. The "l-" added to it is a prepositional prefix meaning "to" or "for," and the vowel pointing of a patach (a) and the dagesh of the shin - indicating a harder, more plosive "SH" sound - imply that the definite article is added. For a total of 23 times translated into the KJV, "The KJV translates Strong's H7845 in the following manner: corruption (4x), pit (14x), destruction (2x), ditch (2x), grave (1x)." 9 Wilt thou yet say before him that slayeth thee, I [am] God? but thou [shalt be] a man, and no God, in the hand of him that slayeth thee. 10 Thou shalt die the deaths of the uncircumcised by the hand of strangers: for I have spoken [it], saith the Lord GOD.'" 11 Moreover the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, 12 "Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, "'Thus saith the Lord GOD; "'"Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty. 13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God (a metaphor for luxury, happy comfort); every precious stone [was] thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. 14 Thou [art] the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee [so]: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. 15 Thou [wast] perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee. 16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire. 17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee. 18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee. 19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never [shalt] thou [be] any more."'" This, of course, was talking about Korah and his family and friends and associates. And, yes, they went down into a sinkhole, possibly with lava below! And, we know that it was deep enough to take down all they owned, including their tents! Whatever they felt was important enough to keep around them for this confrontation went down into the pit! Then, the pit closed over them, burying them alive! (One should mention that "Bemidbar" or "bamMidbaar," meaning "In the Wilderness," is the Hebrew word that was used to name the book now known as "Deuteronomy." It's the eleventh word in the first verse of the book.) First, the parable in Luke 16 is not about the now; it's about the future and is talking about the rich man facing his judgment at the Great White Throne Judgment. There are no flames in the grave. The flames are said to occur when they are thrown into the Lake of Fire and Sulfur. The rich man just wasn't aware that time had passed while he was dead. And, Avraham was not interested in telling him the truth to "comfort" him. No, if anything, animals, fish, and birds leave oil deposits; plants leave coal deposits. This is a HORRIBLE MISTRANSLATION of "אֶרֶץ תַּחְתִּיּוֹת" or "'erets tichtiyyowt"! the "lowest parts of the land!" Here it is AGAIN! This is a PRIME example of how people have MISTRANSLATED and MISUNDERSTOOD what the author was trying to say in this passage! Even worse, this is a MISTRANSLATION of GOD'S words, and GOD WILL hold the translators accountable!

Shalom, @Keras. I agree with all of these points but three, points 3, 8 and 10 are questionable: One MUST remember "MISHPACHAH" or "FAMILY!" That's what genealogies are "all about!" They describe who are related to whom and how they are related. And, this is a very important consideration among the children of Israel. Even "black sheep" of the family are still family members, even if they are "בְנֵי־בְלִיַּעַל" or "sons of Belial," or "worthless children." Let the Messiah sort out all of that, and He shall. Technically, one also must not forget that the FIFTH Seal comes before the Sixth Seal. People do not read this correctly because they have a new definition for "soul" that is not found within the Bible. The word "soul" was used to translate the Hebrew word "נֶפֶשׁ" or "nefesh" (frequently written "nephesh," recognizing the relationship that the Hebrew letter "pei" [פּ] has to a "fei" or "phei" [פ]; this is why we have words like "phone" that begin with the "f" sound). The word "nefesh" is defined like this in Strong's Dictionary of the Hebrew and Chaldee Languages: H5315 נֶפֶשׁ nephesh, neh'-fesh; from H5314; properly, a breathing creature, i.e. animal of (abstractly) vitality; used very widely in a literal, accommodated or figurative sense (bodily or mental): —any, appetite, beast, body, breath, creature, × dead(-ly), desire, × (dis-) contented, × fish, ghost, greedy, he, heart(-y), (hath, × jeopardy of) life (× in jeopardy), lust, man, me, mind, mortally, one, own, person, pleasure, (her-, him-, my-, thy-) self, them (your) -selves, slay, soul, tablet, they, thing, (× she) will, × would have it. stemming from the verbal root word, H5314 נָפַשׁ nâphash, naw-fash'; a primitive root; to breathe; passively, to be breathed upon, i.e. (figuratively) refreshed (as if by a current of air): —(be) refresh selves (-ed). (I usually just transliterate this word "naafash," where "aa" represents the qamets, instead of the harder-to-type "â." Both symbols are pronounced "aw" as in "saw." I trade greater length for ease-in-typing.) "Nefesh" was translated into Greek as "ψυχή" or "psuchee" ("psychḗ"), as any NT quote from the OT can show. So, a "soul" is a "breathing" individual. Thus, the "soul" doesn't exist when a person dies, because that person "CEASES to breathe!" It won't be until the resurrection occurs that one begins to "breathe" again! THEREFORE, we have the FIFTH Seal: Revelation 6:9-11 (KJV) 9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar THE SOULS of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: 10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, "How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?" 11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they [were], should be fulfilled. So, I would argue that this FIFTH Seal, which speaks of the Resurrection, which also hasn't happened, yet, comes before the signs of the Sixth Seal in Revelation 6:12-17.

Shalom, @Mr. M. One should ALWAYS look at a Scripture verse's context and read that verse WITHIN its context. Deuteronomy 31:1-30; 32:1-52 (KJV) 1 And Moses went and spake these words unto all Israel. 2 And he said unto them, "I [am] an hundred and twenty years old this day; I can no more go out and come in: also the LORD hath said unto me, "'Thou shalt not go over this Jordan.' 3 "The LORD thy God, he will go over before thee, [and] he will destroy these nations from before thee, and thou shalt possess them: [and] Joshua, he shall go over before thee, as the LORD hath said. 4 And the LORD shall do unto them as he did to Sihon and to Og, kings of the Amorites, and unto the land of them, whom he destroyed. 5 And the LORD shall give them up before your face, that ye may do unto them according unto all the commandments which I have commanded you. 6 Be strong and of a good courage, fear not, nor be afraid of them: for the LORD thy God, he [it is] that doth go with thee; he will not fail thee, nor forsake thee." 7 And Moses called unto Joshua, and said unto him in the sight of all Israel, "Be strong and of a good courage: for thou must go with this people unto the land which the LORD hath sworn unto their fathers to give them; and thou shalt cause them to inherit it. 8 And the LORD, he [it is] that doth go before thee; he will be with thee, he will not fail thee, neither forsake thee: fear not, neither be dismayed." 9 And Moses wrote this law, and delivered it unto the priests the sons of Levi, which bare the ark of the covenant of the LORD, and unto all the elders of Israel. 10 And Moses commanded them, saying, "At the end of [every] seven years, in the solemnity of the year of release, in the feast of tabernacles, 11 When all Israel is come to appear before the LORD thy God in the place which he shall choose, thou shalt read this law before all Israel in their hearing. 12 Gather the people together, men, and women, and children, and thy stranger that [is] within thy gates, that they may hear, and that they may learn, and fear the LORD your God, and observe to do all the words of this law: 13 And [that] their children, which have not known [any thing], may hear, and learn to fear the LORD your God, as long as ye live in the land whither ye go over Jordan to possess it." 14 And the LORD said unto Moses, "Behold, thy days approach that thou must die: call Joshua, and present yourselves in the tabernacle of the congregation, that I may give him a charge." And Moses and Joshua went, and presented themselves in the tabernacle of the congregation. 15 And the LORD appeared in the tabernacle in a pillar of a cloud: and the pillar of the cloud stood over the door of the tabernacle. 16 And the LORD said unto Moses, "Behold, thou shalt sleep with thy fathers; and this people will rise up, and go a whoring after the gods of the strangers of the land, whither they go [to be] among them, and will forsake me, and break my covenant which I have made with them. 17 Then my anger shall be kindled against them in that day, and I will forsake them, and I will hide my face from them, and they shall be devoured, and many evils and troubles shall befall them; so that they will say in that day, "'Are not these evils come upon us, because our God [is] not among us?' 18 "And I will surely hide my face in that day for all the evils which they shall have wrought, in that they are turned unto other gods. 19 Now therefore write ye this song for you, and teach it the children of Israel: put it in their mouths, that this song may be a witness for me against the children of Israel. 20 For when I shall have brought them into the land which I sware unto their fathers, that floweth with milk and honey; and they shall have eaten and filled themselves, and waxen fat; then will they turn unto other gods, and serve them, and provoke me, and break my covenant. 21 And it shall come to pass, when many evils and troubles are befallen them, that this song shall testify against them as a witness; for it shall not be forgotten out of the mouths of their seed: for I know their imagination which they go about, even now, before I have brought them into the land which I sware." 22 Moses therefore wrote this song the same day, and taught it the children of Israel. 23 And he gave Joshua the son of Nun a charge, and said, "Be strong and of a good courage: for thou shalt bring the children of Israel into the land which I sware unto them: and I will be with thee." 24 And it came to pass, when Moses had made an end of writing the words of this law in a book, until they were finished, 25 That Moses commanded the Levites, which bare the ark of the covenant of the LORD, saying, 26 "Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee. 27 For I know thy rebellion, and thy stiff neck: behold, while I am yet alive with you this day, ye have been rebellious against the LORD; and how much more after my death? 28 Gather unto me all the elders of your tribes, and your officers, that I may speak these words in their ears, and call heaven and earth to record against them. 29 For I know that after my death ye will utterly corrupt [yourselves], and turn aside from the way which I have commanded you; and evil will befall you in the latter days; because ye will do evil in the sight of the LORD, to provoke him to anger through the work of your hands." 30 And Moses spake in the ears of all the congregation of Israel the words of this song, until they were ended. 1 "Give ear, O ye heavens, and I will speak; and hear, O earth, the words of my mouth. 2 My doctrine shall drop as the rain, my speech shall distil as the dew, as the small rain upon the tender herb, and as the showers upon the grass: 3 Because I will publish the name of the LORD: ascribe ye greatness unto our God. 4 [He is] the Rock, his work [is] perfect: for all his ways [are] judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right [is] he. 5 They have corrupted themselves, their spot [is] not [the spot] of his children: [they are] a perverse and crooked generation. 6 Do ye thus requite the LORD, O foolish people and unwise? [is] not he thy father [that] hath bought thee? hath he not made thee, and established thee? 7 Remember the days of old, consider the years of many generations: ask thy father, and he will shew thee; thy elders, and they will tell thee. 8 When the most High divided to the nations their inheritance, when he separated the sons of Adam, he set the bounds of the people according to the number of the children of Israel. 9 For the LORD'S portion [is] his people; Jacob [is] the lot of his inheritance. 10 He found him in a desert land, and in the waste howling wilderness; he led him about, he instructed him, he kept him as the apple of his eye. 11 As an eagle stirreth up her nest, fluttereth over her young, spreadeth abroad her wings, taketh them, beareth them on her wings: 12 [So] the LORD alone did lead him, and [there was] no strange god with him. 13 He made him ride on the high places of the earth, that he might eat the increase of the fields; and he made him to suck honey out of the rock, and oil out of the flinty rock; 14 Butter of kine, and milk of sheep, with fat of lambs, and rams of the breed of Bashan, and goats, with the fat of kidneys of wheat; and thou didst drink the pure blood of the grape. 15 But Jeshurun waxed fat, and kicked: thou art waxen fat, thou art grown thick, thou art covered [with fatness]; then he forsook God [which] made him, and lightly esteemed the Rock of his salvation. 16 They provoked him to jealousy with strange [gods], with abominations provoked they him to anger. 17 They sacrificed unto devils, not to God; to gods whom they knew not, to new [gods that] came newly up, whom your fathers feared not. 18 Of the Rock [that] begat thee thou art unmindful, and hast forgotten God that formed thee. 19 And when the LORD saw [it], he abhorred [them], because of the provoking of his sons, and of his daughters. 20 And he said, "'I will hide my face from them, I will see what their end [shall be]: for they [are] a very froward generation, children in whom [is] no faith. 21 They have moved me to jealousy with [that which is] not God; they have provoked me to anger with their vanities: and I will move them to jealousy with [those which are] not a people; I will provoke them to anger with a foolish nation. 22 For a fire is kindled in mine anger, and shall burn unto the lowest hell, and shall consume the earth with her increase, and set on fire the foundations of the mountains. (Hebrew of verse 22: כִּי־אֵשׁ קָדְחָה בְאַפִּי וַתִּיקַד עַד־שְׁאוֹל תַּחְתִּית וַתֹּאכַל אֶרֶץ וִיבֻלָהּ וַתְּלַהֵט מוֹסְדֵי הָרִים׃ Kiy-'eesh qaadchaah b'apiy vattiyqad `ad-sh'owl tachtiyt vatto'khal 'erets viyVulaah vatlaheeT mowcdeey haariym: "'For-a-fire is-started in-my-passion and-shall-burn unto-"asked-about" of-lowest-parts and-shall-consume [the]-land and-its-increase and-ignite [the]-foundations of-mountains:) 23 "'I will heap mischiefs upon them; I will spend mine arrows upon them. 24 [They shall be] burnt with hunger, and devoured with burning heat, and with bitter destruction: I will also send the teeth of beasts upon them, with the poison of serpents of the dust. 25 The sword without, and terror within, shall destroy both the young man and the virgin, the suckling [also] with the man of gray hairs. 26 I said, I would scatter them into corners, I would make the remembrance of them to cease from among men: 27 Were it not that I feared the wrath of the enemy, lest their adversaries should behave themselves strangely, [and] lest they should say, "Our hand [is] high, and the LORD hath not done all this."' 28 "For they [are] a nation void of counsel, neither [is there any] understanding in them. 29 O that they were wise, [that] they understood this, [that] they would consider their latter end! 30 How should 'one chase a thousand, and two put ten thousand to flight,' except their Rock had sold them, and the LORD had shut them up? 31 For their rock [is] not as our Rock, even our enemies themselves [being] judges. 32 "'For their vine [is] of the vine of Sodom, and of the fields of Gomorrah: their grapes [are] grapes of gall, their clusters [are] bitter: 33 Their wine [is] the poison of dragons, and the cruel venom of asps. 34 [Is] not this laid up in store with me, [and] sealed up among my treasures? 35 To me [belongeth] vengeance, and recompence; their foot shall slide in [due] time: for the day of their calamity [is] at hand, and the things that shall come upon them make haste.' 36 "For the LORD shall judge his people, and repent himself for his servants, when he seeth that [their] power is gone, and [there is] none shut up, or left. 37 And he shall say, "'Where [are] their gods, [their] rock in whom they trusted, 38 Which did eat the fat of their sacrifices, [and] drank the wine of their drink offerings? let them rise up and help you, [and] be your protection. 39 See now that I, [even] I, [am] he, and [there is] no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither [is there any] that can deliver out of my hand. 40 For I lift up my hand to heaven, and say, I live for ever. 41 If I whet my glittering sword, and mine hand take hold on judgment; I will render vengeance to mine enemies, and will reward them that hate me. 42 I will make mine arrows drunk with blood, and my sword shall devour flesh; [and that] with the blood of the slain and of the captives, from the beginning of revenges upon the enemy.' 43 "Rejoice, O ye nations, [with] his people: for he will avenge the blood of his servants, and will render vengeance to his adversaries, and will be merciful unto his land, [and] to his people." 44 And Moses came and spake all the words of this song in the ears of the people, he, and Hoshea the son of Nun. 45 And Moses made an end of speaking all these words to all Israel: 46 And he said unto them, "Set your hearts unto all the words which I testify among you this day, which ye shall command your children to observe to do, all the words of this law. 47 For it [is] not a vain thing for you; because it [is] your life: and through this thing ye shall prolong [your] days in the land, whither ye go over Jordan to possess it." 48 And the LORD spake unto Moses that selfsame day, saying, 49 "Get thee up into this mountain Abarim, [unto] mount Nebo, which [is] in the land of Moab, that [is] over against Jericho; and behold the land of Canaan, which I give unto the children of Israel for a possession: 50 And die in the mount whither thou goest up, and be gathered unto thy people; as Aaron thy brother died in mount Hor, and was gathered unto his people: 51 Because ye trespassed against me among the children of Israel at the waters of Meribah-Kadesh, in the wilderness of Zin; because ye sanctified me not in the midst of the children of Israel. 52 Yet thou shalt see the land before [thee]; but thou shalt not go thither unto the land which I give the children of Israel." No, that is not what this verse is saying. It said, "to the lowest parts of 'asked about'," which means "to the lowest parts of the graves." To say "the core of the earth" has no justification. Fortunately, the Psalm itself IS its context: Psalm 75:1-10 (KJV) 1 [[To the chief Musician, Altaschith ("Do not destroy"), A Psalm [or] Song of (to or for) Asaph (a son of Berechiah, chief Levite musician under David).]] Unto thee, O God, do we give thanks, [unto thee] do we give thanks: for [that] thy name is near thy wondrous works declare. 2 When I shall receive the congregation I will judge uprightly. 3 The earth (land) and all the inhabitants thereof are dissolved: I bear up the pillars (scaffolds) of it. Selah. 4 I said unto the fools, "Deal not foolishly": and to the wicked, "Lift not up the horn": 5 Lift not up your horn on high: speak [not with] a stiff neck. 6 For promotion [cometh] neither from the east, nor from the west, nor from the south. 7 But God [is] the judge: he putteth down one, and setteth up another. 8 For in the hand of the LORD [there is] a cup, and the wine is red; it is full of mixture; and he poureth out of the same: but the dregs thereof, all the wicked of the earth shall wring [them] out, [and] drink [them]. 9 But I will declare for ever; I will sing praises to the God of Jacob. 10 All the horns of the wicked also will I cut off; [but] the horns of the righteous shall be exalted. This is said TO God, not something that God says! Don't rant and think that The LORD has given up on Israel. He has NOT, and says so in better passages than these! These verses are seen above, and again, they are wrenched out of context and misapplied. They were about the times of the JUDGES after Joshua! I take it that you do not like President Donald J. Trump? Why would that be? He's done a SUPERIOR job in the short time he's been in office. I can't WAIT until they start handing down indictments against the corrupt leaders who have REPEATEDLY STOLEN MONEY from the tax payers! Anyway, it is a BLESSING to the United States to support Israel! The man named Israel, first known as Ya`aqoV (or "Jacob") was the grandson of Avraham! And, God promised him and his heirs, Genesis 12:3 (KJV), God said to Avraham ("Abraham"): 3 "And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed." Genesis 26:24 (KJV), God said to Yitzchaq ("Isaac"): 24 And the LORD appeared unto him the same night, and said, "I am the God of Abraham thy father: fear not, for I am with thee, and will bless thee, and multiply thy seed for my servant Abraham's sake." Genesis 35:9-15 (KJV) 9 And God appeared unto Jacob again, when he came out of Padanaram, and blessed him. 10 And God said unto him, "Thy name [is] 'Jacob': thy name shall not be called any more 'Jacob,' but 'Israel' shall be thy name": and he called his name 'Israel.' 11 And God said unto him, "I [am] God Almighty: be fruitful and multiply; a nation and a company of nations shall be of thee, and kings shall come out of thy loins; 12 And the land which I gave Abraham and Isaac, to thee I will give it, and to thy seed after thee will I give the land." 13 And God went up from him in the place where he talked with him. 14 And Jacob set up a pillar in the place where he talked with him, [even] a pillar of stone: and he poured a drink offering thereon, and he poured oil thereon. 15 And Jacob called the name of the place where God spake with him, 'Bethel' (Hebrew: בֵּית־אֵל = "Beeyt-'Eel" = "House of-God"). Exodus 4:21-23 (KJV) 21 And the LORD said unto Moses, "When thou goest to return into Egypt, see that thou do all those wonders before Pharaoh, which I have put in thine hand: but I will harden his heart, that he shall not let the people go. 22 And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, "'Thus saith the LORD, "'"Israel [is] my son, [even] my firstborn: 23 And I say unto thee, Let my son go, that he may serve me: and if thou refuse to let him go, behold, I will slay thy son, [even] thy firstborn!"'" He would not let them go, and God DID slay Pharaoh's firstborn son! Think for a moment: When someone has a son who goes wrong, does he disown him? Well, a "man" (or something less than a "man") might do so, but GOD WON'T! Consider the parable of the Prodigal Son! Did the father disown his wayward son? NO! He welcomed Him back with open arms! There were still consequences for his actions - he had acquired his inheritance early and had wasted it; however, he was still welcome in his father's house. The "Land of Israel" is really GOD'S LAND! It belongs to GOD and to whom God gives it! He WROTE HIS NAME UPON THE MOUNTAINS OF ISRAEL! And, He gave it to His people Israel for a PERPETUAL DWELLING PLACE! 2 Chronicles 6:1-42 (KJV) 1 Then said Solomon, "The LORD hath said that he would dwell in the thick darkness. 2 But I have built an house of habitation for thee, and a place for thy dwelling for ever." 3 And the king turned his face, and blessed the whole congregation of Israel: and all the congregation of Israel stood. 4 And he said, "Blessed [be] the LORD God of Israel, who hath with his hands fulfilled [that] which he spake with his mouth to my father David, saying, 5 "'Since the day that I brought forth my people out of the land of Egypt I chose no city among all the tribes of Israel to build an house in, that my name might be there; neither chose I any man to be a ruler over my people Israel: 6 But I have chosen Jerusalem, that my name might be there; and have chosen David to be over my people Israel.' 7 "Now it was in the heart of David my father to build an house for the name of the LORD God of Israel. 8 But the LORD said to David my father, "'Forasmuch as it was in thine heart to build an house for my name, thou didst well in that it was in thine heart: 9 Notwithstanding thou shalt not build the house; but thy son which shall come forth out of thy loins, he shall build the house for my name.' 10 "The LORD therefore hath performed his word that he hath spoken: for I am risen up in the room of David my father, and am set on the throne of Israel, as the LORD promised, and have built the house for the name of the LORD God of Israel. 11 And in it have I put the ark, wherein [is] the covenant of the LORD, that he made with the children of Israel." 12 And he stood before the altar of the LORD in the presence of all the congregation of Israel, and spread forth his hands: 13 For Solomon had made a brasen scaffold, of five cubits long, and five cubits broad, and three cubits high, and had set it in the midst of the court: and upon it he stood, and kneeled down upon his knees before all the congregation of Israel, and spread forth his hands toward heaven, 14 And said, "O LORD God of Israel, [there is] no God like thee in the heaven, nor in the earth; which keepest covenant, and [shewest] mercy unto thy servants, that walk before thee with all their hearts: 15 Thou which hast kept with thy servant David my father that which thou hast promised him; and spakest with thy mouth, and hast fulfilled [it] with thine hand, as [it is] this day. 16 Now therefore, O LORD God of Israel, keep with thy servant David my father that which thou hast promised him, saying, "'There shall not fail thee a man in my sight to sit upon the throne of Israel; yet so that thy children take heed to their way to walk in my law, as thou hast walked before me.' 17 "Now then, O LORD God of Israel, let thy word be verified, which thou hast spoken unto thy servant David. 18 "But will God in very deed dwell with men on the earth? behold, heaven and the heaven of heavens cannot contain thee; how much less this house which I have built! 19 Have respect therefore to the prayer of thy servant, and to his supplication, O LORD my God, to hearken unto the cry and the prayer which thy servant prayeth before thee: 20 That thine eyes may be open upon this house day and night, upon the place whereof thou hast said that thou wouldest put thy name there; to hearken unto the prayer which thy servant prayeth toward this place. 21 Hearken therefore unto the supplications of thy servant, and of thy people Israel, which they shall make toward this place: hear thou from thy dwelling place, [even] from heaven; and when thou hearest, forgive. 22 "If a man sin against his neighbour, and an oath be laid upon him to make him swear, and the oath come before thine altar in this house; 23 Then hear thou from heaven, and do, and judge thy servants, by requiting the wicked, by recompensing his way upon his own head; and by justifying the righteous, by giving him according to his righteousness. 24 "And if thy people Israel be put to the worse before the enemy, because they have sinned against thee; and shall return and confess thy name, and pray and make supplication before thee in this house; 25 Then hear thou from the heavens, and forgive the sin of thy people Israel, and bring them again unto the land which thou gavest to them and to their fathers. 26 "When the heaven is shut up, and there is no rain, because they have sinned against thee; [yet] if they pray toward this place, and confess thy name, and turn from their sin, when thou dost afflict them; 27 Then hear thou from heaven, and forgive the sin of thy servants, and of thy people Israel, when thou hast taught them the good way, wherein they should walk; and send rain upon thy land, which thou hast given unto thy people for an inheritance. 28 "If there be dearth in the land, if there be pestilence, if there be blasting, or mildew, locusts, or caterpillers; if their enemies besiege them in the cities of their land; whatsoever sore or whatsoever sickness [there be]: 29 [Then] what prayer [or] what supplication soever shall be made of any man, or of all thy people Israel, when every one shall know his own sore and his own grief, and shall spread forth his hands in this house: 30 Then hear thou from heaven thy dwelling place, and forgive, and render unto every man according unto all his ways, whose heart thou knowest; (for thou only knowest the hearts of the children of men:) 31 That they may fear thee, to walk in thy ways, so long as they live in the land which thou gavest unto our fathers. 32 "Moreover concerning the stranger, which is not of thy people Israel, but is come from a far country for thy great name's sake, and thy mighty hand, and thy stretched out arm; if they come and pray in this house; 33 Then hear thou from the heavens, [even] from thy dwelling place, and do according to all that the stranger calleth to thee for; that all people of the earth may know thy name, and fear thee, as [doth] thy people Israel, and may know that this house which I have built is called by thy name. 34 "If thy people go out to war against their enemies by the way that thou shalt send them, and they pray unto thee toward this city which thou hast chosen, and the house which I have built for thy name; 35 Then hear thou from the heavens their prayer and their supplication, and maintain their cause. 36 "If they sin against thee, (for [there is] no man which sinneth not,) and thou be angry with them, and deliver them over before [their] enemies, and they carry them away captives unto a land far off or near; 37 Yet [if] they bethink themselves in the land whither they are carried captive, and turn and pray unto thee in the land of their captivity, saying, 'We have sinned, we have done amiss, and have dealt wickedly'; 38 If they return to thee with all their heart and with all their soul in the land of their captivity, whither they have carried them captives, and pray toward their land, which thou gavest unto their fathers, and [toward] the city which thou hast chosen, and toward the house which I have built for thy name: 39 Then hear thou from the heavens, [even] from thy dwelling place, their prayer and their supplications, and maintain their cause, and forgive thy people which have sinned against thee. 40 Now, my God, let, I beseech thee, thine eyes be open, and [let] thine ears [be] attent unto the prayer [that is made] in this place. 41 Now therefore arise, O LORD God, into thy resting place, thou, and the ark of thy strength: let thy priests, O LORD God, be clothed with salvation, and let thy saints rejoice in goodness. 42 O LORD God, turn not away the face of thine anointed: remember the mercies of David thy servant." God responded with a warning: 2 Chronicles 7:11-22 (KJV) 11 Thus Solomon finished the house of the LORD, and the king's house: and all that came into Solomon's heart to make in the house of the LORD, and in his own house, he prosperously effected. 12 And the LORD appeared to Solomon by night, and said unto him, "I have heard thy prayer, and have chosen this place to myself for an house of sacrifice. 13 If I shut up heaven that there be no rain, or if I command the locusts to devour the land, or if I send pestilence among my people; 14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land. 15 Now mine eyes shall be open, and mine ears attent unto the prayer [that is made] in this place. 16 For now have I chosen and sanctified this house, that my name may be there for ever: and mine eyes and mine heart shall be there perpetually. 17 And as for thee, if thou wilt walk before me, as David thy father walked, and do according to all that I have commanded thee, and shalt observe my statutes and my judgments; 18 Then will I stablish the throne of thy kingdom, according as I have covenanted with David thy father, saying, 'There shall not fail thee a man [to be] ruler in Israel.' 19 "But if ye turn away, and forsake my statutes and my commandments, which I have set before you, and shall go and serve other gods, and worship them; 20 Then will I pluck them up by the roots out of my land which I have given them; and this house, which I have sanctified for my name, will I cast out of my sight, and will make it [to be] a proverb and a byword among all nations. 21 "And this house, which is high, shall be an astonishment to every one that passeth by it; so that he shall say, 'Why hath the LORD done thus unto this land, and unto this house?' 22 And it shall be answered, 'Because they forsook the LORD God of their fathers, which brought them forth out of the land of Egypt, and laid hold on other gods, and worshipped them, and served them: therefore hath he brought all this evil upon them.'" Again, treat everything as it was meant to be treated, and keep everything in its context. Furthermore, look to the context for understanding. Isaiah 8:1-22 (KJV) 1 Moreover the LORD said unto me, "Take thee a great roll, and write in it with a man's pen concerning Mahershalalhashbaz" (Hebrew: מַהֵר שָׁלָל חָשׁ בַּז = "Maheer-shaalaal-chaash-baz" = "Swiftly-comes plunder; speedily [one is] prey"). 2 And I took unto me faithful witnesses to record, Uriah the priest, and Zechariah the son of Jeberechiah. 3 And I went unto the prophetess; and she conceived, and bare a son. Then said the LORD to me, "Call his name 'Mahershalalhashbaz.' 4 For before the child shall have knowledge to cry, 'My father' (Hebrew: אָבִי = "'aViy" = "my-father, 'Daddy'"), and 'my mother' (Hebrew: וְאִמִּי = "v'immiy" = "and-my-mother, 'and-Mommy'"), the riches of Damascus and the spoil of Samaria shall be taken away before (Hebrew: לִפְנֵי = "lifneey" = "to-the-face-of") the king of Assyria." 5 The LORD spake also unto me again, saying, 6 "Forasmuch as this people refuseth the waters of Shiloah that go softly (gently), and rejoice in Rezin and Remaliah's son; 7 Now therefore, behold, the Lord bringeth up upon them the waters of the river, strong and many, [even] the king of Assyria, and all his glory: and he shall come up over all his channels, and go over all his banks: 8 And he shall pass through Judah; he shall overflow and go over, he shall reach [even] to the neck; and the stretching out of his wings shall fill the breadth of thy land, O Immanuel. 9 Associate yourselves, O ye people, and ye shall be broken in pieces; and give ear, all ye of far countries: gird yourselves, and ye shall be broken in pieces; gird yourselves, and ye shall be broken in pieces. 10 Take counsel together, and it shall come to nought; speak the word, and it shall not stand: for God [is] with us." 11 For the LORD spake thus to me with a strong hand, and instructed me that I should not walk in the way of this people, saying, 12 "Say ye not, 'A confederacy,' to all [them to] whom this people shall say, 'A confederacy'; neither fear ye their fear, nor be afraid." 13 "'Sanctify the LORD of hosts himself; and [let] him [be] your fear, and [let] him [be] your dread. 14 And he shall be for a sanctuary; but for a stone of stumbling and for a rock of offence to both the houses of Israel, for a gin and for a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem.' 15 "'And many among them shall stumble, and fall, and be broken, and be snared, and be taken. 16 Bind up the testimony, seal the law among my disciples. 17 And I will wait upon the LORD, that hideth his face from the house of Jacob, and I will look for him. 18 Behold, I and the children whom the LORD hath given me [are] for signs and for wonders in Israel from the LORD of hosts, which dwelleth in mount Zion.' 19 "And when they shall say unto you, 'Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter': should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead? 20 To the law and to the testimony?: if they speak not according to this word, [it is] because [there is] no light in them (in the people of Israel). 21 And they shall pass through it, hardly bestead and hungry: and it shall come to pass, that when they shall be hungry, they shall fret themselves, and curse their king and their God (Hebrew: וּבֵאלֹהָיו = "uwVee'lohaayn" = "and-to-their-God"), and look upward. 22 And they shall look unto the earth; and behold trouble and darkness, dimness of anguish; and [they shall be] driven to darkness." It's important that one sees what's going on in these verses: They are being warned that the Assyrian army is coming. Like a flooded river, it's going to overflow its banks! But, God warned that they are not to seek an alliance (a confederacy) with neighboring countries; it won't help. Then, He also warns them against the occult and soliciting mediums. He asks the multiple question, "Shouldn't a people seek unto their God? To the Law and the Testimony?" (The Testimony is the record of those who did trust God and proved Him in their lives by believing His promises and receiving His blessings. That's what verse 20 is all about; it's the PEOPLE who are "without light in them," NOT "the law" or "the testimony." One should remember Galatians 3: Galatians 3:1-29 (KJV) 1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? 2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh? 4 Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if [it be] yet in vain. 5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, [doeth he it] by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness (Genesis 15:6). 7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham. 8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, [saying], "In thee shall all nations be blessed" (Genesis 12:3). 9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham. 10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, "Cursed [is] every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them" (Deuteronomy 27:26). 11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, [it is] evident: for, "The just shall live by faith" (Habakkuk 2:4). 12 And the law is not of faith: but, "The man that doeth them shall live in them" (Leviticus 18:5). 13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, "Cursed [is] every one that hangeth on a tree" (Deuteronomy 21:23): 14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. 15 Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though [it be] but a man's covenant, yet [if it be] confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto. 16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ. 17 And this I say, [that] the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect. 18 For if the inheritance [be] of the law, [it is] no more of promise: but God gave [it] to Abraham by promise. 19 Wherefore then [serveth] the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; [and it was] ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator. 20 Now a mediator is not [a mediator] of one, but God is one. 21 [Is] the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law. 22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. 23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. 24 Wherefore the law was our SCHOOLMASTER [to bring us] unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. 26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one IN CHRIST JESUS. 29 And if ye [be] Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise. Hope this all helps.

Shalom, @Mr. M. I'd be happy to do so. I'll work on it this afternoon for you. Thank you, James, for considering a response!