Qun Mang

It might have something to do with the article being over two years old...

Yet apparently they are. I imagine different locations are headed by people with differing views, which is why there are a few rare cases of them actually defending Christians. That is, if their website can be believed (that's where you pull those stories from time to time in defense of this organization, isn't it?). Too many times, however, it is Christianity that's on the receiving end of their lawsuits. That said, they can be useful when the grievance has nothing to do with religion/Christianity.

Well, this is really supposed to be more of a question of how young the Earth is if you believe in a young Earth. I believe 6,000 years is the time that's most thrown out there, but I am interested to hear what others believe and why. I threw the standard 4 billion years as that is what many scientists believe as their dating techniques seem to show this, and so it wouldn't be fair to leave this option out. Myself, I am torn a bit. I lean toward the young Earth, but as to how young I'm not sure. 6,000 was really all I had heard until a friend of mine came up with a convincing argument for 11,000 years. Unfortunately he also believes that October 21(?), 2011 is the day of Christ's return. from the book from that "prophet" who already failed to come up with the right date once. However, this is another topic for a separate thread.

Okay folks, I'm trying this again. PLEASE don't start discussing false doctrine- my last thread was deleted as a result. Matthitjah offered to clean it up and undelete it, but I wanted to save him time and repost it as a poll instead. If your answer is anything but 6,000 years or billions of years, could you justify your answer? Of course, 6,000 years comes directly from the geneologies in the Bible. However, some listed fathers and sons may actually be more distant relations, just as Joseph, adoptive father of Jesus, is referred to as the son of David by the angel who spoke to him even though he is really a distant descendant. As such, the age could be more than 6,000 years. Billions of years also needs no explanation. Of course, believing in billions of years does NOT necessarily make you an evolutionist, but that sort of discussion would be for another thread (hint, hint ).

Debate rises on who wrote 'Don't Squeeze the Charmin?' Wed Nov 21, 1:15 PM ET OCEAN CITY, N.J. - Never mind any questions of whether any squeezing actually took place. The real question is who gets credit for creating the catchphrase "Please don't squeeze the Charmin." Just days after the death of actor Dick Wilson, who portrayed harried store clerk Mr. Whipple in Charmin commercials, two retired copy writers are each claiming they were the one who wrote the line. Norman Schaut and John Chervokas, both in their 70s, say they worked at New York ad firm Benton & Bowles in the early 1960s but did not know one another. Both have clear memories of being the originator of the phrase at the center of the campaign that Advertising Age magazine ranked the 51st best of the 20th century. "I could comfortably say it was my baby," Schaut, who now lives in Ocean City, told The Press of Atlantic City. He recalls asking his firm's art director to make a store display with a yardstick to measure the thickness of the toilet tissue and adding the line "Please don't squeeze." Chervokas, now the town supervisor in Ossining, N.Y., heard about Schaut's claim and was so upset he called him Tuesday, introducing himself by announcing: "You're talking to the man who created 'Please don't squeeze the Charmin.'" A spokeswoman for Proctor & Gamble said there's no paper trail proving which Benton & Bowles employee brainstormed the enduring slogan. (click title for original article)

Scent gives Malaysian DVD pirates away Thu Nov 22, 3:25 AM ET KUALA LUMPUR, Malaysia - A gang of pirated DVD makers tried to hide in a palm oil plantation, but Malaysian authorities caught a whiff of their crime

Malaysian sues Britain over ethnic Indians' woes By Clarence Fernandez Wed Nov 21, 10:59 AM ET KUALA LUMPUR (Reuters) - An ethnic Indian in Malaysia is using an audacious strategy to highlight the plight of his mostly impoverished community by suing Britain, the country's former colonial ruler, for $4 trillion. The Malaysian government dismisses the case as baseless, but lawyer Waytha Moorthy is determined to pursue it, even vowing to appeal to Britain's Queen Elizabeth to appoint lawyers for the Indian community, which he says is too poor to find its own. Moorthy wants Britain to pay damages of 1 million sterling ($2.06 million) to each of Malaysia's 2 million ethnic Indians for rights abuses he traces to colonial-era labor schemes that brought their ancestors to Malaysia as indentured workers. "We are seeking compensation because we were permanently colonized during British rule, and now, under the government of the ethnic Malays," Moorthy told Reuters. "We have lost touch with our roots and have been suppressed so far," said Moorthy, who accuses British officials of failing to honor their responsibility to protect ethnic Indians when they granted independence to Malaysia in 1957. In colonial times, many impoverished Indians and Chinese flocked to work and settle in Malaysia, drawn by government schemes meant to attract cheap labor for the country's then lucrative rubber estates and tin mines, he added. RUN FOR HIS MONEY Some might feel that Moorthy, who paid court fees of more than 2,000 pounds to file his case in London's Royal Courts of Justice, has already got a run for his money from the Malaysian newspaper headlines that have trumpeted his story. But the episode highlights a very real dilemma: after 50 years of independence, ethnic Indians, most of whom are Hindu, own just 1.5 percent of the country's national wealth. The group, which forms about eight percent of Malaysia's 26 million people, says a decades-old affirmative action plan for the country's Malay Muslim majority has deprived it of opportunities, and the government has done little to improve living standards. The affirmative action plan, adopted after deadly race riots in 1969, favors politically dominant Malays in housing, education, businesses, jobs and state contracts. Ethnic Indians say the policy is discriminatory. Poor education further cripples their chances of upward social mobility, forcing them to continue being laborers, although some are now losing out to cheaper foreign workers. "Indians have suffered under the Muslim-majority Malay government and also during British government rule for the past 200 years," said Moorthy. His suit also asks the British courts to declare the Malaysian constitution void for not safeguarding the rights of ethnic Indians, and seeks British citizenship for the group. Moorthy said he was gathering 100,000 signatures for a petition to Queen Elizabeth to appoint lawyers to represent the Indian community, which was too poor to pay its own legal costs, which he estimated would reach a million pounds. "We only want justice in the United Kingdom courts," he added. "Whatever justice is given to us we will accept." (Editing by David Fogarty) ($1 = 0.4846 Pound) (Click title for original article)

Dog owners go barking mad for fancy dress By Paul Majendie Tue Nov 20, 9:16 AM ET LONDON (Reuters) - Darth Labrador. Dogzilla. Elvis the hound dog. No outfit is too outrageous for man's best friend. The British do love a party animal -- they have gone crazy dressing up their dogs for costume parties. Sales soared by 300 percent over Halloween. Now costumiers have lined up a festive big seller -- the one-size-fits-all Santa pet hat for the dog determined to have a great Christmas. "Some cynics would say the British love their dogs more than they do other people," said Benjamin Webb, spokesman for Angels Fancy Dress who have been supplying costumes for humans since 1840 and are now on a canine winning streak. "It's an American tradition that the British have made their own. In Britain, the quiet man in accounts comes to a party dressed as Superman whereas the Americans go for crazy costumes. "The British are so quiet and reserved. That is why it's more like wishful thinking," he told Reuters. The costumes range in price from 10 to 20 pounds. Humans can hire outfits, canines are not allowed to. "Dogs can't put down a deposit," Webb explained. At the Angels Fancy Dress shop in Shaftesbury Avenue, proud pet owners bring in their dogs to pick a suitable outfit. If the demand keeps soaring, the shop may consider putting in a special fitting room complete with mirrors. Webb said "They use dressing up as an extension of their own personality. We have clients who have identical costumes for themselves and their dogs. It's the whole situation of -- Love me, love my dog." Appalling puns are clearly compulsory in the canine costume business -- as well as Dogzilla, owners can dress their dogs as football "Howligans" to celebrate "Happy Howloween." One of the biggest sellers is the rock superstar dog -- for anyone who fancies bedecking their immaculately bred golden retriever in a diamante Elvis-style cape, collar and flared trousers. Webb is as bemused as anyone that the British have lifted silliness to new heights. "Nobody would have seen this coming. They really have taken this to their hearts. We love our animals and we have these secret desires we want to fulfil." But he said felines do draw the line at dressing up. "This is a canine fashion. Cats are far too single-minded and refuse to follow fashion," he said. (Click title for original article)

Bosnian burglar takes nap, gets caught Thu Nov 22, 6:56 AM ET SARAJEVO, Bosnia-Herzegovina - A would-be thief took a nap while burgling a house in Bosnia — and the owner found him sound asleep on the couch, police said Thursday. The man, identified only as Edin M., 21, managed to snatch two bracelets and an earring before falling asleep, police in the central Bosnian town of Maglaj said. He confessed to breaking into the house. "He saw the couch and just sat to down to rest for a while and fell asleep," police said in a statement. (Click title for original article)

Dinosaur Found With Vacuum-Cleaner Mouth By RANDOLPH E. SCHMID Nov 16, 5:44 PM EST WASHINGTON (AP) -- A dinosaur with a strange jaw designed to hoover-up food grazed in what is now the Sahara Desert 110 million years ago. Remains of the creature that "flabbergasted" paleontologist Paul Sereno went on display Thursday at the headquarters of the National Geographic Society, where they will remain until March. Sereno and colleagues recovered, assembled and named the creature - Nigersaurus taqueti - that he said seems to break all the rules, yet still existed. "The biggest eureka moment was when I was sitting at the desk with this jaw," he said. "I was sitting down just looking at it and saw a groove and ... realized that all the teeth were up front." It's not normally a good idea to have all the teeth in the front of the jaw - hundreds in this case. Sure, "it's great for nipping," Sereno said, "but that's not where you want do your food processing." "That was an amazing moment, we knew we had something no one had ever seen before," Sereno recalled. Sereno, a National Geographic explorer-in-residence and paleontologist at the University of Chicago, said the first evidence of Nigersaurus was found in the 1990s and now researchers have been able to reconstruct its skull and skeleton. While Nigersaurus' mouth is shaped like the wide intake slot of a vacuum, it has something lacking in most cleaners - hundreds of tiny, sharp teeth to grind up its food. The 30-foot-long Nigersaurus had a feather-light skull held close to the ground to graze like an ancient cow. Sereno described it as a younger cousin of the North American dinosaur Diplodicus. Its broad muzzle contained more than 50 columns of teeth lined up tightly along the front edge of it's jaw. Behind each tooth more were lined up as replacements when one broke off. Using CT scans the researchers were able study the inside of the animal's skull where the orientation of canals in the organ that helps keep balance disclosed the habitual low pose of the head, they reported. Nigersaurus also had a backbone consisting of more air than bone. "The vertebrae are so paper-thin that it is difficult to imagine them coping with the stresses of everyday use - but we know they did it, and they did it well," Jeffrey Wilson, assistant professor at the University of Michigan and an expedition team member, said in a statement. The dinosaur's anatomy and lifestyle were to be detailed in the Nov. 21 issue of PLoS ONE, the online journal from the Public Library of Science, and in the December issue of National Geographic magazine. The first bones of Nigersaurus were picked up in Niger in the 1950s by French paleontologists led by Philippe Taquet, but the species was not named at that time. Sereno and his team honored this early work by naming Nigersaurus taqueti after the nation where it was found and the French scientist. The research was partly funded by National Geographic where, Sereno said, "you can see the hideous jaw elements in person." (Click title for original article. Good picture and rendition on MSNBC)

Man gulps down feast to support hungry Wed Nov 21, 3:01 PM ET It was a Thanksgiving meal for 10, but Tim Janus devoured it alone in just 15 minutes as part of a public relations stunt to draw attention to New York City's hungry. "What's so important about today is that it begins to fill my stomach up and I can now leave a little more for everybody else," Janus said after consuming a 10-pound turkey, four pounds of mashed potatoes, three pounds of cranberry sauce and 2 1/2 pounds of beans. And he still had room for dessert: an entire pumpkin pie. Janus

Scientists find fossil of enormous bug By THOMAS WAGNER, Associated Press Writer Wed Nov 21, 7:54 AM ET LONDON - This was a bug you couldn't swat and definitely couldn't step on. British scientists have stumbled across a fossilized claw, part of an ancient sea scorpion, that is of such large proportion it would make the entire creature the biggest bug ever. How big? Bigger than you, and at 8 feet long as big as some Smart cars. The discovery in 390-million-year-old rocks suggests that spiders, insects, crabs and similar creatures were far larger in the past than previously thought, said Simon Braddy, a University of Bristol paleontologist and one of the study's three authors. "This is an amazing discovery," he said Tuesday. "We have known for some time that the fossil record yields monster millipedes, super-sized scorpions, colossal cockroaches, and jumbo dragonflies. But we never realized until now just how big some of these ancient creepy-crawlies were," he said. The research found a type of sea scorpion that was almost half a yard longer than previous estimates and the largest one ever to have evolved. The study, published online Tuesday in the Royal Society's journal Biology Letters, means that before this sea scorpion became extinct it was much longer than today's average man is tall. Prof. Jeorg W. Schneider, a paleontologist at Freiberg Mining Academy in southeastern Germany, said the study provides valuable new information about "the last of the giant scorpions." Schneider, who was not involved in the study, said these scorpions "were dominant for millions of years because they didn't have natural enemies. Eventually they were wiped out by large fish with jaws and teeth." Braddy's partner paleontologist Markus Poschmann found the claw fossil several years ago in a quarry near Prum, Germany, that probably had once been an ancient estuary or swamp. "I was loosening pieces of rock with a hammer and chisel when I suddenly realized there was a dark patch of organic matter on a freshly removed slab. After some cleaning I could identify this as a small part of a large claw," said Poschmann, another author of the study. "Although I did not know if it was more complete or not, I decided to try and get it out. The pieces had to be cleaned separately, dried, and then glued back together. It was then put into a white plaster jacket to stabilize it," he said. Eurypterids, or ancient sea scorpions, are believed to be the extinct aquatic ancestors of today's scorpions and possibly all arachnids, a class of joint-legged, invertebrate animals, including spiders, scorpions, mites and ticks. Braddy said the fossil was from a Jaekelopterus Rhenaniae, a kind of scorpion that lived only in Germany for about 10 million years, about 400 million years ago. He said some geologists believe that gigantic sea scorpions evolved due to higher levels of oxygen in the atmosphere in the past. Others suspect they evolved in an "arms race" alongside their likely prey, fish that had armor on their outer bodies. Braddy said the sea scorpions also were cannibals that fought and ate one other, so it helped to be as big as they could be. "The competition between this scorpion and its prey was probably like a nuclear standoff, an effort to have the biggest weapon," he said. "Hundreds of millions of years ago, these sea scorpions had the upper hand over vertebrates

That is correct- it was a public school. The coach was Christian (as apparently were the students who prayed). Because the coach is operating in the capacity of a public employee, and thus by leading prayer in that capacity, he is using the government to promote or endorse his religious beliefs, thus, his actions are unconstitutional. However, if on his own time he wanted to lead prayers, he is certainly free to do so. This is a simple principle. For example, if you are a judge, you can pray about cases, you can pray privately in your chambers, you can teach sunday school at your church, but you can't lead a prayer in the court room. Didn't the original post say the STUDENTS were leading the prayer and the coach just happened to pray silently along with them? Btw, forrest, if he had led the prayer, I do agree with you. It was student-led. The coach merely prayed silently off to the side. But whether or not is was appropriate for him to be praying with them (I know many schools forbid teachers from joining the students at see-you-at-the-pole prayer sessions for example, which I also think is wrong, provided the teacher is not leading a prayer), what the ACLU rep said really got my blood boiling. The rep essentially said that not only can the coach not teach Christianity, but that he can't even visibly be a Christian when acting in official capacity. What's next? When in public, but not working, teachers can't show their religion because one of their students might see and be offended?

Except for the jail example, the cases you provided are about the students, not the teachers. In the issue I mentioned, the students had the freedom to pray. The ACLU representive was essentially saying the coach had no rights to any religious expression.

I imagine the victim's family could still file civil charges even if criminal charges don't apply. I'm not a fan of lawsuits, but this sort of situation with people who don't even care that they were the cause of a child's death is just the sort of situation that calls for it. These people sorely need Jesus.

Prayer is not out of schools. Anyone can pray in school during their free time. We just don't have school led prayer in class rooms. Sadly, if it were up to the ACLU, the "anyone" you list would not include teachers. I read of one case recently of a Christian high-school coach being lambasted for silently praying with his players in a student-initiated and led prayer. An ACLU representative claimed the coach was not allowed to have even an appearance of praying where he could be seen.

I couldn't care less what ONE Evangelical's presidential endorsement is. He can be the so-called voice for the religious right all he wants, but he doesn't speak for me (yes I am of the majority here- Christian and Conservative, or "religious right").

Correct. No matter how plausible a theory may seem to be, no matter the scientific consensus, if it contradicts God's Word it is wrong.

No problem. I just got a little bristled after reading that part at the end of your response. You do make a couple of pretty big points before that though, and it makes me think: if the Earth is old, then the period before Adam and Eve sinned would really have looked much different from what we can imagine, with no death in the world. As for the Exodus passage, I would have to look up if the same word, yom, is used here as well. It would still make sense if the specific section read, "for in six time periods the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh time period he rested, and was refreshed." In such a case, the model He laid for the sabbath would still be there, but for His people to follow week-by-week instead. Again, I am not trying to sway anyone here, and I still lean toward a young Earth myself. As Nathele says, the geneologies are there. This brings up a point a friend of mine believes- that what appear to be direct lines are not always so- that is, in some cases generations are skipped. For example, where it sometimes says A son of B, A may in fact really be grandson of B or further. Consider: Matthew 1:20 "But as he considered these things, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, "Joseph, son of David, do not fear to take Mary as your wife, for that which is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit." Earlier in Matthew we read: "and Eliud the father of Eleazar, and Eleazar the father of Matthan, and Matthan the father of Jacob, and Jacob the father of Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom Jesus was born, who is called Christ." So Jacob, not David, is shown to be the father of Joseph. In fact, Joseph is many generations removed from King David. Of course, this doesn't change anything from a young Earth perspective- it just stretches things out a bit from 6000 years to somewhat longer. According to my friend, this makes things like historical dating of things like ancient Egyptianian structures fit in far better with a young Earth perspective. Hmm- this last part seems to be hijacking the thread, so I would ask any reponses to this be PMed, or a link to a discussion of this pointed out either publically (no more than the link) or privately.

Who said anything about not believing the Bible? Not being sure of the exact meaning/context of a single word is quite far off from not believing it. Fortunately whether or not I believe a yom is a literal day (and I already said I am leaning this way and why) or something else does not hold eternal consequences. 2Tim 2:16-17 says (ESV), "All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be competent, equipped for every good work." and I believe it, just as I believe every other part of the Bible.

To this part I say probably because it is my understanding the original word translated as day (yom) could actually mean a different time period other than a 24-hour day. On the flip side of the coin, there must be a reason the different translators translated it the way they all did. In short, I lean toward literal days, but I would not be surprised in the least to find out that they in fact were not. Of course, please don't take the inevitable step and paint me as a maybe evolutionist- I don't believe in that line they have been trying to sell us at all. Possible belief in old earth does not mean possible belief in macroevolution, even though the reverse must by necessity be true. The LORD did it exactly as the Bible says, whether yom means a day or some other time period.

Unless this position somehow involves working with youth, which it doesn't sound like it does, there should be no outrage- even if the allegations are true. Should anyone not be allowed to earn a living for oneself? Even the worst pedophiles, once they get out of prison (if they do), should not be deprived of work somewhere as long as it doesn't involve kids.

And I've got all of them in me... Well, I know for a fact I have Irish, English, and Scottish ancestors. If I have those three, I must have some of Wales in me somewhere. I also have in me Czech, German, and I don't know what other European blood. And of course, Klingon...

Any chance of taking a play from the liberal playbook and suing to have this law ruled unconstitutional? I mean, boys in the girl's locker room (and vice-versa)? Stating belief in one-man/one woman marriage or fixed-gender at birth as harassment? I mean, come on! I don't think even the infamous Amsterdam has laws this ridiculous.

Does he really not see the difference between ones body parts and a life that without interference will be a separate individual in a matter of months? Truly, he has been blinded. The abortionists need not fear- an activist judge will almost certainly rule it "unconstitutional" on some grounds should it pass.