Grungekid

Oh, I'm not denying that Christians do have a large part in our country, but there are plenty of people who don't consider it personally. I will agree that politicians may think of it in terms of demographics, however. That's pretty much a constant for any affiliation, though, not just Christianity.

It also may have to do with the fact that Bhuddism, from an atheistic point of view, does not offer as much opposition in its doctrine as Christianity does. I seriously doubt that Christianity is all that enters any modern secular country's thoughts on any given subject. You almost make it sound as though we own the world. In fact, I'd say there are plenty of active atheists in politics, or other members who dislike involving God's 'religious' answers in their legislation.

The same differentiation that I make between water, ice and vapor, it's all water, just different forms. Oops Sorry Josh - thought I had responded but just discovered the post isn

I think it's been fixed.

We also know that there were various tribes of semitics in Egypt throughout its history, that I am aware of. One such tribe, the Hyksos, actually came from Northeastern Africa and invaded the country. If there were Semitics this far east, we can be certain that they were involved in Egyptian culture, especially because of its juxtaposition to Mesopotamia. Large groups of people migrated into Phoenicia and Mesopotamia several times from various cardinal directions, as well. I can't think of anything that contradicts what the bible says. QUOTE There is also a story by the Greeks that recounts Him as the 'son of adultery', unflattering and inaccurate, but nonetheless an example of another source which mentions the figure of the Nazarene. Once again, you are correct artsylady. There are enough records of Christ to gaurantee His place as an actual, historical personage.

Well, regarding the truth in an historical context, I believe that we only have degrees of truth, such is the nature of evidence. I wouldn't get overly philosophical over what 'knowledge' is, but, for me, knowledge has to be supported by evidence that is available to everyone, and that knowledge must be reasonably inferred from that evidence. 'Does ultimate knowledge originate with God' is an excellent question, but one that is not answerable from my world view. What is ultimate knowledge and what is God, and how could we possibly go about verifying these ideas? Not to add any precariousness to your position, but I think you will definitely have to get philosophical. For example, if you do not hold to the truth of God either way, do you believe in any transcendental truths whatsoever? How can we expect to know objective truths at all when there are different interpretations of universals and concrete evidence?

I can't really understand what you are saying, but it sounds right!

Most metaphysical naturalists just shrug off all supernatural events as false accounts or I know two or three atheists who believe that humans have souls, however, they do not have a specific description of what it truly is or what it implies. Beyond that I would feel comfortable in saying that many merely believe in what they can see and detect with technology. I know of a few atheists who changed their thoughts on the supernatural entirely because they witnessed things they could not explain by any natural means. There are probably a majority of people who either have experienced or will experience situations that cannot be rationalized, but will deny its significance or refuse to accept it as proof that they are in any way incorrect. Of course, I am not an atheist, but I have been arguing with them for a large part of my childhood, so I feel like I understand them to some degree.

So have we finally become aware of the triple nature of the Godhead?

I need effective study against that toxic movie and also I need anti-atheism studies specially that defend our faith against thoughts like "Jesus is a Myth", "Jesus didn't historically exist".... Pray for me. Know only that this makes even the most secular of learned historians peel out in laughter. These men are total frauds, believe me, I have heard of all this before. I thought for sure Richard Dawkins would be in there somewhere. None of them have any place in any argument anywhere. There is an abundance of evidence for Jesus as an actual figure in history, besides the fact that our dating system is based around Him. Take these as helpful reminders of the fallacies of extremist atheism: http://www.christiancadre.org/topics/historicaljesus.html http://www.amazon.com/Historical-Figure-Je...s/dp/0140144994 Sanders isn't Christian that I am aware, but he does acknowledge Jesus as a person of undoubtable historicity. Also consider these verses: "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the father except through me." John 14:6 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness... Romans 1:18 Another thing to ponder is what Brendon Boyd says in 'When it Comes' about mental piracy!

Artsylady, the Islamic peoples copied down Greek and other European literature and compiled it, saving it from the other horrors of the Dark Ages. Islamic intellectuals adored it, and they added some of their own advances to it, furthering knowledge for the re-emergence of civillization, and quite possibly saving us from being set back detrimentally in the advancement of both technology and knowledge. I could add more, but I am busy at the moment. In any case, I don't think it is debated; I am pretty sure it's now one of the facts of history.

secondeve, The term Fornication comes from the Greek word Porneia. This term means any illicite sexual intercourse. This takes into account adultery, fornication, homosexuality or most other sexual activity between unmarried people. The Bible condemns homosexuality, and it also condems any sexuality between two people not married. There are many other things that are also condemned by God as worthy of death. Let's consider what the Bible actually says. At Lev 20:13, we are told as plainly as can be stated what God's law is on homosexuality. They should be put to death without fail!!! Also Lev 18:22. These scriptures make it very clear what God thinks of homosexuality. This same feeling is reiterated in the Christian Greek Scriptures. 1Cor 6:9,10 gives a list of things that are condemned by God, homosexuality being one of several thinks that God will not allow in His Kingdom. Consider Rom 1:26-31.Here a list is also given of things that deserve death, homosexuality being only one of them, because it is an unnatural act, obscene, and disgraceful.. At Gal 5:19-21, there is given a list of the fruits of the flesh, fornication, or porneia being one of them, thid includes homosexuality. None of these will be allowed into God' Kingdom. At 1Tim 1:9,10 we see another list of things contrary to God's law, PORNEIA being one of them. PORNEIA includes homosexuality. Rev 21:8 and 22:15 also condemns fornication, or PORNEIA, including homosexuality. Since all who will NOT be in God's kingdom, will not be in the BOOK of LIFE, they will be thrown into the Lake of Fire, the second death. THINK, THINK,THINK, if homosexuality was born into a person, and they had no control over it, would the merciful God, Jehovah, condemn such ones. But if it is a chosen lifestyle, God is just in condemning such a degrading, unnatural, and obscene lifestyle. This does not mean there is no hope for homosexual persons. If a person changes he can always be forgiven. Nothing is so bad that the Ransom Sacrifice of Jesus cannot cover,Acts 10:34,35, 13:38,39, Matt 9:12. Well said, but let's keep in mind that the commands pertaining to the treatment of homosexuals were devised for a certain people in a certain point in time. It's not that we as Christians have any obligations to kill or even verbally attack homosexuals. We can rebuke them, but I do not believe Christ calls us to cause them any real harm.

Grungekid. I think rekrul has been banned. I have posted briefly on the first book of John but am prepared to elucidate if you wish. PM me if you like / dare I know, just found out. I am not interested in the post, the Truth is beyond evident.

My father's barber is gay, and he talks lots of trash about women, too. On the other hand, I do know gays who have nothing against women. In fact, they frequently get along with them better than the other males.

Well, I think that the situation in Africa only gives more of a chance for God to glorify Himself. He shows us things that soften our hearts and motivate us to reach out to these people. Also, those kids may still get a chance to touch eachother's lives and have an impact even though they have a short life expectancy. It's very sad, I will agree with that, but perhaps it also says something about the church, and Western Civillization for that matter. In all honesty, I think it really is our fault in the first place. We tore up their countries and enslaved them, then we created multiple disputes by causing old allies to become confined to lands and borders that we set up; now we often turn the other way when we hear they are in need.

So.... what exactly is this in apologetics for?

Uh, how are you taking the debate in a new direction? You basically just said that you thought there were problems with a theory that is supposed to be perfect, when most of your points have not been proven yet, and thus there is nothing wrong with a theory that is supposed to be perfect, thus the theory is not in danger of being refuted because it does not agree with it's own infallibillity.

Read the beginning of the first book of John if none of this convinces you, rekrul. We just studied it and it very clearly states that Jesus was God.

Rekrul, I am going to say something that has been stated throughout this thread, once more, just for your good: Jesus is God. He is a part of the trinity, but He is also human. The prospect of being both a part of God and human must have confused you. His humanity died, but the divine component was never killed. It was merely released into the spiritual realm where Jesus conquered the devil and sin once and for all. Jesus even rose again, in human form, showing us that He must not have been truly dead and that he must have divine powers. Unless you worship more than one true deity, that makes Him God.

It was great, but you will get people who will say that there are different moral codes in different societies, and they will say that means that you are wrong. This isn't really true, however, murder is always murder in every society since the rule of Hammurabi, and justification is always warranted for certain sins. Also, you can defend yourself by saying that some people becomed desensitized and no longer 'hear' their inner conscience.