carlos123

This morning as I was praying over some things that had me REALLY discouraged the Lord seemed to move me in the direction of sharing about His dealings with me more openly on this forum out of a desire that He might be in a better position to speak to me through some of you that might not only have relationship with Him but also that might be willing to speak into my life whatever thoughts the Lord might lay on your heart for me. Such a thing is in line with the things that are on my heart and I must take whatever baby steps I can in becoming more vulnerable and connecting with Christians at the heart level wherever I have opportunity to do so. So I am going to share some of my heart overall with you all in the hopes that the Lord might be able to more readily speak into my life through others here and that He might also glorify Himself in how He has been dealing with me. I am not quite sure how to begin this. This post may get quite long but here goes... Let me set the background for what I say later on by describing something of what the Lord did in and through my life about 15 years ago. The church that I had been going to, the Tabernacle Church of Melbourne, Florida had started to meet every single day of the week. Literally. A church meeting every night with singing and worship, perhaps teaching, and seeking the Lord together as a Body. I had been going to that for a while and had been orienting my life around being able to go as much as I could. I was hungry for God and wanted more of Him. One day as I was turning into the driveway of the apartment complex I lived at the Lord spoke to me in my spirit quite clearly and definitively. That I was to go next door to a Christian couple that had moved in and broach the possibility with them of starting to eat some meals together. As they did in the New Testament. I didn't like the idea of doing that as I thought that such was a bit presumptious and somewhat silly (I did not know them very well) but I did it anyway. To make a very long story short we not only started eating together but we began to pray together, play together, even work together (me and the husband at least). Some others began to join us and a Christian fellowship formed. It was without a doubt the sweetest time of fellowship I had ever had in my life. I had NEVER experienced this kind of fellowship before as I was primarily used to the go on Sunday's, eat a doughnut afterwards, and then separate for the rest of the week type of fellowship. Not entirely mind you as I had been in a church before where EVERY member was committed to going into all the world to reach out with the Gospel but it had been a long time since I had been in that church. But what I had never experienced before was the DEEP involvement in each other's lives that occurred. We cried, we laughed, we danced before the Lord together. We gave up inhibition and became as one. ALL week long! Visions became commonplace. Words from the Lord. My time with the Lord in private EXPLODED like you would not believe. I am talking about experiencing the living God in ways that were literally miraculous! Some of you might think that some of what I experienced was nuts and from a wordly standpoint you would be right but NONE of my experiences were not in line with the kinds of things that happened in Acts. NONE of it was unscriptural in the least. I share that to say this. God BECAME real to me and to those that I was with. As He was meant to be! None of the churchy baloney that usually passes for Church! I am talking about the living God walking among us and manifesting Himself in and through us. I walked around in fear and trembling at the presence of the Living God. That's how real it was. Unfortunately my own immaturity caused this move of God to falter and fail! I got it into my heart that the Lord wanted us to go witnessing door to door. And I began to push this. Big time. To such a degree that it became an absolute must that we do that RIGHT NOW! Subtly implying by how I said things that if anyone did not want to do this that they were resistant to God Himself. I gave no room for the Holy Spirit to work and draw others to seeing the same thing. I began to Lord it over others. At one time I completely lost it and started screaming at others. Ranting and beating them down with my words. The life of God was snuffed out! By me! There was of course a lot more to what happened than what I say above but that was the gist of it. I came to realize the error of my ways but by then it was too late. Trust had been broken. The move of God died. And never rose again to this day with respect to the kind of fellowship that I have had since then. If what I have said so far interests anyone such that anyone would like me to continue let me know and I will go on. I want to share more but I also want to take a break from typing for a bit. Carlos

Outstanding! Good for you B3...etc. (don't know what else to call you)! Christians everywhere need to stand on what is right by God NO MATTER WHAT! Today Christianity has become this wishy washy, mamsie pamsie, feel good, get something from God religion that means little and does little to bring the flavor of God into everyday life. In many cases Christians are no better than unbelievers with respect to living righteously. In many other cases they are even WORSE! True Christians can start to change that by standing on what is right! NO MATTER WHAT! No matter what personal loss they may suffer as a result. Carlos

Yeah, I thought of just building the site and letting him insert his own content using WordPress but the thing is that I would have had to fiddle with his domain name which may have made fun of the President or otherwise worked with him to get his content, ridiculing Obama, up. For me it was not so much a matter of conscience, though it certainly was that too, as just being out of line with how the Lord wants Christians to be respecting their attitudes and respect for those in positions of authority. It's interesting that the Lord tested my heart in this because the money I would have made would have paid for my entire next month's expenses at a time when I could have really used the money. This is the third time in the last few months when I have had to give up work on websites that would have gone against the grain of righteousness for me. The Lord has always provided for me but it has not been entirely without a testing of my heart. As to whether I am going to trust Him as my provision or go for what lies in sight even if it is questionable or out of line with how He would want me as a Christian to act. Carlos

Bear in mind that the media can't be trusted to tell the truth or tell it how it was said to them. I recently had a major reporter for a very popular weekly magazine interview me about my support for Ron Paul. I spoke freely as this guy was supposedly a friend of mine who had gotten to know me at the gym we are both members of. When I read the story I was absolutely shocked. He literally made stuff up about me that wasn't true at all. In one sentence he even said that I believed that being homeless WAS freedom which was total BS. Fortunately I did not allow him to identify me by name but still it woke me up, big time, to how the media can twist things up! Carlos

Great stuff LadyC! Well said. You are not one I would have a problem with respecting a concern of being judged and ignored about the things God has laid on my heart to share. My concern is with "Christians" who are so caught up on external appearances that they miss the heart which is what God looks at. Carlos

Thanks very much for the input you all. I decided to reply to this potential client and let him know that, although I do not like Obama personally and think he is a terrible President, that I just did not feel comfortable working on a site that poked fun at the President in view of God wanting me to respect him in that office, to pray for him, and to honor him as our elected leader. Carlos

I am a web developer by trade. A person I know emailed me today for a quote on building him a website but in further correspondance he told me that the site he wants me to build has to do with making fun of President Obama. I am concerned about building such a site in view of what Paul said about not speaking evil of one's rulers and otherwise praying for them and respecting them as one's that God has placed in authority over us. If Paul said that during the time of the Roman Caesar's there is no excuse for not doing at least as much with our current President. As a Christian I absolutely refuse to work on sites that would support ungodliness or in any way compromise righteousness for me to work on them. This one bothers me. What I am thinking of doing is letting my client know that I can build him a site that will allow him to post his own content entirely. Where I will not be involved in posting the content. What do you all think? Is that enough or should I just gracefully say no to helping him with this site at all? I don't know what the domain name is but that may poke fun at the President too. He is not a Christian but knows without any doubt whatever that I am one. Any advice would be appreciated. Carlos

Well...let's just say that I sleep quite soundly (well...if not soundly then not for reasons that have anything to do with being homeless at least on a very expensive, self-inflating camping mattress. Incidentally in the city that I live in in California one is legally allowed by law to sleep on the sidewalks between the hours of 9:30 pm and 5:30 am. A while back a lawyer took the city to court on behalf of the homless and won a court case against the city preventing them from hassling the homeless while they tried to get some sleep somewhere. It is a human right to be able to sleep and as the case went if the city did not have enough shelter beds to allow the homeless to sleep indoors somewhere it was considered cruel and unusual punishment to harrass the homeless and prevent them getting any sleep at all hours of the day and night (making it near impossible for them to get work or otherwise improve their lot in life). Under an amendment to that case...at present the police can stop a homeless person and offer them the chance to go to a shelter bed IF one is available. If they refuse they can then ticket them but shelter beds are almost always never available so the police only use that amended opportunity with homeless folks who are causing a hassle or are otherwise causing a disturbance. I stay out of the way and under the radar in my own situation and never come in contact with the police (where I sleep) or even other homeless most times (though I know a whole lot of them and have what I consider to be some friends among them). I mean I have been in the midst of everything before when I first became homeless here and have had contact with the police in that setting before (in fairness to them they were very professional and even almost apologetic to me the few times that they felt a need to wake me up or ask me to move along under scenarious that were illegal on their part I think but which scenarios I did not dispute with them about). It is absolutely amazing how the Lord has provided for me every step of the way. At times in ways that can only be described as miraculous. I was SO nervous when I first became homeless here that as I went to the bus stop to take me to the city proper to start sleeping as a homeless dude my knees were literally buckling. All I could do was keep repeating to myself "The Lord is my Shepherd I shall not want. The Lord is my Shepherd I shall not want." and continue walking to the bus stop one step at a time. I kept my eyes on God and He has been faithful to me like you would not believe. Oh...I'd like to add that my homelessness and my contact with Christians through it has been a real eye opener. The Christians of today are NOTHING compared to the Christians of the New Testament. They minister to people externally by giving out handouts without actually taking people into their hearts as Christ would have them do and come alongside of them to love them as they love themselves. At first such a thing DISGUSTED me. Now I have come to realize that many may not even be Christians at all. They are NOT surrendered to Christ as their Lord. They do NOT trust Him and follow Him as disciples. Their faith is for the most part if not entirely a head thing and many church goers are the kinds of folks that Jesus will say "I never knew you!" to. Carlos

Don't know much about the fellow in question but your thread title caught my eye and I wandered over to take a peek. Let me say for what it's worth that it's really no big deal to be homeless. At least for a guy living as a single. I've been there and still am. I belong to a gym, take showers whenever I want, have all out unlimited internet access 24/7 through the university that I frequent, even have a student card which entitles me to all kinds of perks at the university though I take absolutely no classes (perfectly legal under a special program they have for people who are fifty and over). I pay absolutely no rent anywhere. I get around by public trolley and bus (get a deep discount as a result of being considered a student). I meet most of my needs for money by doing web development for clients (through my own laptop which I store along with a few other things in a couple of lockers at the gym) all of which know that I am homeless and who have no problem with it whatever (though at first they were a bit hesitant to use me as a result of the stereotypes that are associated with this lifestyle). When they owe me money they simple visit a branch of my bank (multi-state) and make a deposit in person at a teller or they mail me a check through my bank's Pay by Mail address. Most people's idea of what it is like to be homeless is completely off the wall! I mean seriously. All they ever see and think regarding the homeless is what are commonly looked upon as bums. It doesn't have to be that way at all. Most people that meet me would never guess that I am homeless at all though I do not hide such as we interact. It's only ever been a problem with ONE single person that I know of. The change in his countenance and interaction with me when I told him I was living homeless was palpable. His loss as far as I am concerned. If anyone has any questions about this I probably won't answer them (except through PM and only if I have had previous positive dealings with you here) as there are just too many people who would judge me left and right and ignore whatever the Lord might want to say through me because of things they may find out about me that are irrelevant from God's perspective but not from theirs. For what it's worth. Carlos

Oh...okay. Neat. I can't ever recall using a signature here. I'll have to look into doing that though I am somewhat hesitant about it. I mean blogging my heart out tends to put me in...well...a rather vulnerable position. Thanks for letting me know OneLight. Carlos

OneLight...just a follow up question that just came to my mind. Can I liink out to a blog of mine in my signature then? Is that a viable alternative to actually starting a blog here? Carlos

Oh...sorry OneLight. I mistakenly thought that anyone could start a blog here as I saw what looked like some blog posts here. I didn't realize that only the one's in ministry here could have a blog. Thanks for the heads up. Carlos

As I sought the Lord earlier this morning on what He might have me do with myself (I seek Him about such periodically) the thought was clearly laid on my heart that I need to be on various forums even more. Sharing whatever He lays on my heart. A member of this forum thanked me for sharing my heart in a thread post today and that he enjoyed watching God work in me as I struggle to discern the leading of God and humble myself before His correction. As I thought about all this some it dawned on me that this blog has a blogging capability where I could potentially share more of God's intimate dealings with me for the benefit of others. I think I would like to do that but first a couple of questions for anyone that might care to answer them. I do not want to start a blog here if I am stuck blogging only here. Meaning that I can never take my blog posts and/or my readers elsewhere. Perhaps to an independently hosted blog for example. 1. Is there is an export functionality with blogs here such that I can export all my blog posts and take them elsewhere anytime I want? 2. Can I keep a running back up of my blog posts somehow such that if, God forbid, I am ever banned from this forum that I will readily have hard copies of my posts? 3. Can I direct blog readers to follow me to an independently hosted blog somewhere else should I ever want to keep blogging somewhere else (I mean that is doubtful since the whole purpose of blogging here is to allow Christians to gain something from my postings but still it's nice to know that I can take my readers elsewhere should I ever want to)? For me to not have some measure of flexibility with respect to what I do with my blog posts and/or readers of my blog here is like using software that does not allow me to take my data to another software program and forces me to stick to the use of their software only. Not a good thing and not something I want to get started doing. Any help answering these questions would be appreciated. Thanks. Carlos

Thanks so much Candice! That may solve what has undoubtedly been one of the most frustrating things as to how this forum operates! Carlos

I have been looking and looking and can't find anyplace to ask about how this forum works so I thought I would ask it here. I know it seems rather silly of me with my post count to be asking about this but, well...I just started again after being gone for several years and that's just the way it is LOL. On busy threads I am participating on I get notice of any new responses by email. Within each such email there is a link to allow me to visit the thread. Only when I click on the link I am redirected NOT to the post I am getting notice of but to the beginning of the thread! Which is incredibly frustrating in that if I want to respond to a particular post and quote it in my response I have to go and look for it manually. Sometimes I just give up rather than taking the time to find the post in question. Is there no way to set the email notices to include a link to the particular post that I am getting notice of? Such that when I click on that link I am taken directly to that post? Carlos

Gary, What I say below is not to discourage you but rather to let you know why you may (perhaps) not always get much of a response to some or all of the deep thoughts you expressed in your original post here. I mean relative to the length of your original post. For me personally...your original post (herein referred to as OP) thoughts are too deep for an off the top response. And since I do not have time to think too deeply just now and since I really have no burden to think deeply about the Trinity just now...I must leave your thoughts to stand alone unresponded to. At least from me. It is a truth with no end that many times the burden we may have on our hearts to understand something, grasp something, and apply something of the things of God is not always shared by others in the Body. Resulting in a rather lonely walk of it respecting that burden though in truth we are never entirely alone. God, the God who loves us, is with us and rejoicing in our willingness to seek Him and enter into the glory of understanding the deeper things of a matter. And He may yet use us at some point in time to bring some measure of sharing in that glory to others through our persistence in seeking Him. All the best. Carlos

Funny you should say that. We have just got back from church, South sang in the worship group and I assisted with the sound desk and computers. We worshiped, prayed, listened to an amazing word (one you might want to hear sometime), fellowshipped, had coffee, and went home. The kids had a kids worship today as well. My brother probably preached in a reed and thatch church in Mozambique today (have not heard from him do to the communication problems), but that's what he does. Felt like a church to me........ I praise God for any good that came from your Church service Fez. I have never said every Church that operates in North America is unbiblical or not being what they ought to be. Only that a great many of them, in the form in which they are found, are falling way short of what the Lord wants the Body to be. Instead of inviting people "to" Church we need to go have a burger with them at McDonald's and get to know them. Instead of having just a home group we need to become a home for one's who might not have one or about to lose theirs. instead of just sitting around on a Sunday watching the spectacle of Church as spectators we need to become active participants as members of the Body exercising their gifts within the assembly when the Spirit prompts. Instead of not seeing each other except on Sundays and Wednesday nights we need to be intimately involved in each other's lives all week long. Getting together to pray, eat, cook, go shopping and whatever else we might be able to do. Together. For the mutual benefit of all and as a way to give us more opportunity to disciple each other and love on each other. In the New Testament they were together. They ate their meals together with glad and sincere hearts. They broke break in their homes. They shared their possessions. They sold houses and land and gave the proceeds to allow needs in the Body to be met. They had baptisms outside, in the open before all the people not in baptisimals cloistered away inside Church buildings. The Gospel was one of becoming disciples of Jesus as an expression of trusting God for forgiveness not this feel good, yeah I'll take salvation while living for myself, type of Gospel that separates the Lordship of Jesus Christ over our lifes from our salvation as if we could take or leave His lordship while getting ourselves saved. If think your Church is all that it is supposed to be, that the New Testament talks of being, and if it truly is...all the more power to your Church Fez. May we have 10,000 more like it. But if it is not...then it needs to change. It's really that simple. Don't make what I am saying to be any more complicated than that. Carlos

That's an assumption on your part which is just plain wrong. If I wanted that...well...let's just say that I would never have come here to ask for input on an idea I had. This is the last place I would think of coming to have anyone lean on me for guidance since people here tend to have strong opinions but voila...here I am. Go figure. I am not interested in having people rubber stamp my opinions (which apart from what the Word says mean next to nothing). I am interested in people following what the Word says who are willing to scrap church traditions that get in the way of the Holy Spirit wanting to do through us as a Body what He did during New Testament times. You know I am somewhat surprised that someone like yourself who supposedly knows the Bible well is not following the biblically sound way of asking rather than assuming about what I think Man. I mean instead of assuming that I don't like being questioned you could have...well...asked me if I like being questioned. Instead of assuming that I am unable to consider the possiblity of being wrong you could have asked me if I am ever wrong or think I might be. That type of thing. I welcome such questions but it does not appear that you are intersested in the truth about what I think or in any real answers I might give. Rather you seem more inclined to want to just assume what I believe and operate on that assumption to make invalid points that line up with what you want to believe about me Man culminating of course in your insistance that I have some kind of Messiah Complex. May I ask why you assume rather than ask? Carlos

I disagree but since there is nothing I can say which is likely to change your mind and see to my heart and the truth of what I am saying...I'll leave it at that. Carlos

Whoa right there.... Not one person has ever been saved except by the Holy Spirit. Not one. Would you care to rephrase the above? I agree Fez. Only God saves people. I find it ironic that I used a phrase "I've seen people get saved" or some such which is not exactly correct biblically but which has worked it's way into our Christian vernacular and yet when I talk about the need to get away from statements such as "going" to Church...well that's not good. But you are correct of course Fez. I can no more save anyone than any of us can "go" to Church as if Church is a place to go to. The correct biblical truth is that God does the saving and that Church is who we are not a building. So...let's see... How about "The only persons whom I can remember ever changing their minds about anything I have ever shared with them have been those that God has seen fit to save through my sharing of the Gospel with them". Better I think but a bit long worded. I still like the shortened phrase "that i've seen saved" as in my being a witness to their salvation. But I can understand that such a shortened phrase might not come across quite biblical. Carlos

Good morning Dave! I would want nothing less! Well...kinda Dave. Actually, though I may speak in the first person oftentimes about what I like or don't like the actual fact of the matter is that the Lord wants the Body to be a certain way. That way is clearly laid out in the Word. I read the Word and I see one thing regarding what fellowship is and what we ought as a Body to be about. I look at the practice of Church today and I see something completely different. I just want what is in the Word Dave. For the greater glory of God so that I can use my gifts more freely, so that one's will get saved more readily, and so that Jesus will manifest His living Presence through the Body in ways rarely seen today (at least in North America). It is not a matter of solely my liking or not liking something Dave. Sorry if that is the way I have come across. My like or dislike of something doesn't matter. It's what God likes or dislikes, it is His will that matters. That's all I want. To the degree that Church leaders and the practice of Church falls short of that...well...you can rightly say I don't like that but it's because He doesn't like that either. The Bible is quite clear in what it says we ought to be about. We are to lay down our lives for each other. Be involved in each other's lives and allow others into our lives. All out involvement. Not the kind so often found in Sunday Churches. Church is to be participatory. Spirit led not leader led respecting it's normal meetings. Women are to wear head coverings. Multiplicity of elders who are not called Pastors by the way. No head honcho Pastors over Churches. Shared leadership among co-equal in authority elders who have learned to work in unity and love. There's is lots and lots more Dave. All there in black and white for anyone who has ears to hear and eyes to see. I just read a verse this morning that so typifies the typical response of professing believers to all these things... "Acts 7:51

Yeah...I was in Canada for a while. Ten years to be about precise...then I came to San Diego and have been here about a year and a half now. Okay you all..I have been thinking and yes, praying about this whole idea some and here is my new thinking on it. First off here is the idea rehashed and rewritten. Offer free internet training to whoever wants it (Christian or not makes no difference). Offer that training through a website and a newsletter which will be sent out to subscribers. The training will involve things like... - the importance of keyword research. - coming up with great keyword phrases to target. - how to create a PHP driven web site easily and the benefits of such. - when to use WordPress and when not to. - how to change web hosts. - how to move a MySQL database to a different host. - how to speed up your web site. - best links for html tutorials. - best links for PHP tutorials or perhaps some PHP lessons. - how to use the free image software called GIMP to create headers and basic graphics. - etc.. Oriented around having a successful Internet presence and/or making some money over the internet. I am an excellent writer. It is a gift of mine attested to by quite a number of people who have read my blog posts and other things I have written...it is not just my inflated opinion of myself. I have had a number of web development clients inquire as to how I ended up being able to explain things so well and write so well to explain concepts to them by email or otherwise. Again it is a gift since I did not teach myself to write well and explain things well. It is just something I am good at. I want to be used by the Lord big time. And I want to make a living over the Internet. And no...for various reasons I do not believe it is God's will for me to join up with a typical Sunday church in a building. Reasons that I am open to discussing more but not on this thread. I need to reach the lost. Unbelievers who have become Christians through me are about the only persons who have ever, and I mean ever, changed their thinking about something I was sharing with them. Looking back I cannot think of a single, solitary Christian who has EVER changed their mind about anything that I have shared with them no matter how based in the Word and truthful what I was sharing was. I don't know why that is but that is the way it is. Some of that may involve my presentation if you will but a lot of it too is a general hardness of heart and dullness of hearing among the Christians I think. I need to focus my attention on new one's that might become Christians through me and teach them from the ground up. A fresh biblical teaching of what the Body is meant to be and pray that the Lord would move upon some to join me in implementing His will for us as a Body. Whether here or in Chile where I hope to move that seems to be what I am to be about. The free training will allow me a springboard to share the Gospel with many. The Gospel will be presented clearly all over the training. It will not be hidden under a bushel basket. The training will be a way to get unbelievers to come and hear the Gospel or at least expose them to it. Trust me I will be very up front about Christ and the Gospel through the training which itself will be high quality. Secondly I will also use the training as a springboard to promote various affiliate offers from which I hope to make some income. A hosting company that I belong to for example, gives me $50 per person that signs up through my affiliate link. That should more than pay for the site hosting cost wise and otherwise and give me a little extra. That isn't the way I will make a living over the internet but it will add to my income. I may also use the training modules as the foundation of free in-person seminars I might give locally (the first seminar will be free, subsequent one's will be $20 per person each type of thing). So I will be reaching the lost many of whom want to become more successful online, Christians who want the same thing, will be using my gifts and maybe, just maybe...finding some who will join me in trusting God to make us the kind of Body we ought to be in our day and age. What do you all think of this revised idea? Carlos

The Lord spoke very specifically to me last night about my dealings with Christians. I'd like to share more of what the Lord did in my heart last night in view of some of the things I said here but am wondering if it is possible to link to my blog post through this forum somehow. I don't want to repeat what I said there and there is no sense in doing so. I don't know if things have changed around here from when I was here two years ago but in reading the signature restrictions it appears that unlimited URL's are now allowed within them. Is that right? Is there a place where I could put the URL of my blog within my profile such that one's interested in reading about the Lord's interactions with me might be able to find my blog address? Whatever you may think about why I want others to see my blog the simple truth of the matter is that I want to share what the Lord does in my life and the best place to do that is through an external blog since this is not the only place that I frequent online. If that is not possible then if it is not currently against the rules and you are interested in reading what I said...you can PM me I guess. Thanks. Carlos

On the contrary. I mean every word I said Believer. Granted that my words are an expression of what I have experienced in my 52 years of life with about 35 of those being a Christian but still...that's a whole lot of experience in various Churches so I am not entirely off the wall in what I say I don't think. I'll give any Christian around me the benefit of the doubt. Absoluutely. In real life when I meet Christians I don't immediately start thinking...oh, oh...here's another Churchian. Not at all. I don't think anything of them really. I just talk with them on the trolley or wherever I happen to meet them but let me tell you there are a lot of weirdo Christians out there. People who I would be and am embarrased to be associated with. I think about the only hope there is for me to find the kinds of Christians that were present in the New Testament is to see some get saved and help them see the New Testament fresh without them having time in established Church circles to get "ruined" by the form of Church as we practice it today. Thing is I can't do it alone. I mean I have in the past gone witnessing door to door alone but that's not the best and it's difficult to say the least. So I don't know what to do exactly but that's the way things are. Carlos

It's much more profound than that mizzdy. That's like saying that calling a homosexual union a marriage is just about wordage which implies that it's really not that big of a deal. We stand or fall by our words which express our beliefs which in turn dictate our actions and what we do. Jesus said that we will be judged by every idle word we utter and the impact of those words on those around us. If one believes that God is in that building with a cross on top and nowhere else (as He is in that building) then one's belief will greatly affect how one acts outside that building. For in the building one will at least pretend if not actually be holy in the presence of God but outside the "Lord's House" one will tend to do as one pleases for they are not in the Presence of God who resides in that building after all. I know that is somewhat simplistic but that is how many so-called Christians think. From taking off one's hat in the "House of the Lord" to baptisms and otherwise happening in the building...that is considered Church by a great many professing believers and that is indeed how they act. Like that is what Church is all about and where anything of any real spiritual significance happens. So our words about Church and what they express about our beliefs has a tremendous impact. I think most of us are just too blind to see that. So accustomed to believing a lie that we all but ignore the truth in practice if not in our intellectual theological belief with the result that the status quo of how Church has been since we were born continues with counless Churchians going to a building and feeling all good about themselves that they went to be with God for a couple of hours on Sunday. Carlos