HisMindinme

There are dreams where God is clearly speaking and involved. The bible is rather clear about this fact. However, that is not to suggest that all dreams or even many or most dreams carry this notion of having some form of significance. Most and many dreams have an underlying mechanism where there is a thought-biology link. Read and consider the article at the following link: http://www.columbia....4/breecher.html The sum of the article is this: The cornea (e.g. glassy outer part of the center of our eye) is so thin and transparent because it has no blood vessels. When our eyes are open, the cells of the cornea take oxygen directly from the air and release cellular waste which is washed away when we blink (e.g. the eye lid works like a windshield wiper blade). However, when we close our eyes to sleep or rest, this cycle of operation ceases. The cornea is no longer exposed to the open air nor are we blinking. However, without respiration, the corneal cells will die within minutes. So, what is the solution? Motion! REM (e.g. Rapid Eye Movement) is something we all do. The movement of the eyes causes the fluid behind and between the cornea and the iris to begin to rotate or cycle. The blood cells of the iris become both the source of oxygen and the taker of waste as the fluid cycles around between the iris and corneal cells. What gets the eyes to move is the process of dreaming. Our dreams present mental scenes that our eyes follow as though we were "seeing". Herein is the link between thought and biology. We respond biologically and physically to what we think. Thus, dreaming is the process of our biology stimulating memory and subconscious thought for the purpose of driving the eyes into motion (e.g. REM) for the purpose of keeping our corneal cells alive. Now -- the question arises: Could God have created another mechanism other than dreaming to facilitate corneal survival other than REM? Of course He could! However, He did not do otherwise, but left the doorway open to stepping into our dreaming process for the purpose of another level and place of communication. While this God-intervention in dreams the bible refers to as "your old men will dream dreams and your young men will see visions" is not the vast majority of what is happening in our most common dream-cycles, the doorway is nevertheless present and there for the Lord to use as He sees fit. I, myself, have had two such visions in my 49 years of living: one at about 13 and another when I was about 34. Outside of these two, I can safely tell you that all my dreams (strange and otherwise) have been simply the REM process going on. Thus, out of about 17,900 dreams, only two have had this God-involvement. Moreover, I am not unique, but quite common in this regard. It seems more than certain, there are people who NEVER experience any level of dream that could be associated with God intervening or involved in their dreams. Finally -- while asking the question you have is a good thing and the feedback you get will help you in some way, the reality is this: You must discern finally for yourself the meaning of your dreams. Hopefully, the information and feedback you get here will help. Hopefully, something written above will help. Most assuredly, the most important aspects of life are not experienced in our dreams, but when we are wide awake and making conscious moral choices based on the source of the thinking in our hearts and minds: Seeds of passion, born of Satan and hell, or seeds of principle, born of the Spirit of God. Herein lays the most important question of all! I hope you know the answer! P.S. -- As the Lord can be involved with human dreaming, so too can hell and Satan. Parapsychology, dream-interpretation and other such things are a dangerous foray into things of hell masquerading as something completely innocent. While there are grey areas and questions to be answered, many such answers will remain unanswered and unknown until the Day in which all things are revealed (e.g. Paul writes, "I will know even as I am also known."). So, the pursuit of such questions and answers in this life, especially where other more important questions go unasked and unanswered (e.g. salvation, etc.): we must be rather careful and wary to stray too far from where knowable safety in the Spirit can be found. Thus, there is a high caution to be stated here about running after dream interpretation.

Passion Vs Principle G1939 ἐπιθυμία epithumia ep-ee-thoo-mee'-ah From G1937; a longing (especially for what is forbidden): - concupiscence, desire, lust (after). G1937 ἐπιθυμέω epithumeō ep-ee-thoo-meh'-o From G1909 and G2372; to set the heart upon, that is, long for (rightfully or otherwise): - covet, desire, would fain, lust (after). G2372 θυμός thumos thoo-mos' From G2380; passion (as if breathing hard): - fierceness, indignation, wrath. Compare G5590. James 1:12-15 Blessed is the man who endures temptation, because having been approved he will receive the crown of life which the Lord promised to the ones loving Him. (13) Let no one being tempted say, I am tempted from God. For God is not tempted by evil, and He tempts no one. (14) But each one is tempted by his own lusts, being drawn out and being seduced by them. (15) Then having conceived lust brings forth sin. And sin being fully formed brings forth death. Each one is tempted by his own lusts -- that is -- sets his heart upon a longing passion for what is forbidden. Lusts are a work of the flesh and not of the Spirit. Simply said, lusts or passions are a part of the flesh and spirit from Spirit is a matter of how God thinks and what He thinks. His reasoning, His choices and logic -- all of these things are a part of His Spirit. This seed planted in us is what can grow up to children -- that is -- thoughts, thinking and reasoning born of the Spirit in the womb of our heart. These not of sin, but of righteousness as a gift to us. What made America great from the start was not her form of government, but the reality upon which she was formed: Principles and not passions. In the cradle of 13th to 17th century Europe were born the seeds of Liberty. The Magna Carta, the French revolution and other enlightenment episodes. For instance, this is written about the Magna Carta: “The 1215 charter required King John of England to proclaim certain liberties, and accept that his will was not arbitrary, for example by explicitly accepting that no "freeman" (in the sense of non-serf) could be punished except through the law of the land, a right which is still in existence today.” -- WikiPedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magna_Carta) In other words, no man could be punished at the immediate whim or passions of a single man. The “due process” of law thus became an instrument to guard free men (e.g. those wtih recognized liberty ordained by natural law or God) against the passions and desires of men seeking to rule others by way of their own passions. Herein is the distinction between a democracy and a republic. A democracy substitutes the whim, will and passions of a mob or majority rule for that of a king in a monarchy. Thus, the society is still ruled by passions, albeit the passions of a group rather than a single man. On the other hand, a republican form of government seeks to establish and institution of law standing above the passions of either a single man (e.g. king) or even a group of men (regardless of size and number) and is carefully designed with guards and gates against the inflow or onslaught of those passions into the system of law itself. There are perhaps many ways to exemplify the matter to the purpose of recognizing both the difference and the danger. One such example can be summed in a sentence: The court of public opinion versus a court of law. Which would you prefer to be tried in? A court of public opinion is often quick to judge, blind to evidence and likely to presume guilt rather than innocence. American jurisprudence is built along and opposite track, presuming innocence and offering rules and guidelines for the presenting of evidence, conviction and even the meting out of punishment, such that justice can be based on a system of due process (principles) rather than the will, whim and passions of a judge. For those of us who are Christians: Will God judge us according to sinful, quick and thoughtless passions, or will He be long-suffering, methodical, principled and fair based on clearly laid out rules? Is God a man that He operates by the passions and desires of human flesh (e.g. thinks like we think) or is He above such? What sort of God do you want to judge you? If Jesus is Savior, will salvation by Christ be based on loose passions of the moment; apt to change upon a changing tide of chemistry in the body of Christ? Rather, will salvation be based on clear and carefully established and well published rules? If not clear, if not open, then how can we be judged with righteousness? The root of discernment is to know the line between passions and thoughts stemming from them and how to live by and recognize principles, especially those found in and coming from God, Himself. Stated simply: The issue of life is to learn the difference between passion and principle, to the purpose of promoting principle over passion in our own lives and encouraging the same in others. It is the capacity to discern between a self or society ruled by passions and those submitting to rules and law that causes us capacity to retain a principled society. America is no longer a principled society. Today, we function almost completely on our public, majority-rule (democracy) passions. It may be true that “Republicans” are somewhat closer to principled people than are liberal Democrats, but the reality actually is how most Democrats and Republicans are simply passion and passion-lite. My call to you, my fellow patriots and Americans is simple: Return to knowing the difference between your thoughts born of your passions and your recognition of and willingness to submit to principles of liberty as granted by at least natural law, if not God and Creator. Unless you see this difference and the source of it, you will fall to your own passions in a deep ignorance of the peril within your own heart and mind. There is no in-between ground. There is no middle road. A man with a void and vacuum devoid of principle will find an in-rushing wind of thoughts born of his own passions. There is no other choice as this is the reality of our state and nature as human beings. We are born into passion naturally and must be taught and strive for principle. Minus being taught, our only resort is to our natural state: driven and overflowing with our own passions and the thoughts born of them and in servitude to. There are also the matter of passions masquerading as principles. The discernment of which is when the passions of another or the passions of a group impose upon the God-given, God-ordain and God-established liberty of another. Learn to spot tyranny and how to recognize it as passion and not principle and you’ll secure another link in the chain of liberty to pass to your children at a price more costly and precious than any money or earthly wealth. Again -- my prayer for you all is that we awake to principles, especially those framed for us in the Bible and in our constitution. From these words proclaiming liberty to all, come the principles that will consistently and forever stand as a bulwark against the unbridled tyranny of the passions of our own hearts and that of others as well.

With complete love -- you are SHOWING OFF! Do you think the rest of us do not battle "spirits"? So, you've "seen Satan him self with my own eyes not in a dream ..." -- WOW! I am just soooooooo impressed and so in awe of your spiritual experience! Please! Showing off. Pride. Self aggrandizement. The inward chemical passions of your brain, mind and flesh are feeding on your own thoughts. "The evil spirits have at the time stopped me from praying ..." <-- hogwash! No "evil spirit" has the power to stop ANY child of God from praying! YOU stop you from praying. You are feeding your passions and the lusts of your mind and flesh on such thoughts. And now you have come here to spread yourself out for all to see and hoping someone will go, "Gee brother! Wow! What a GRAND Spiritual Combat you are in! God bless you brother!" Repent of the PRIDE and addiction you have to your own thoughts, emotions and passions!

What was unbiblical? I hardly think that the evil spirits you speak of have their origin in some spiritual error. the legalism and hyper emotionalism mainly plus the word of faith stuff where they preach that if we say things such as i dont feel good, that you will bring sickness upon yourself just by saying those words. oh my pet peev were those who tried to push or knock you to the ground when they prayed for you and calling it being "slain in the spirit". can you please explain what you meant when you said you doubt the evil spirits have their origin in some spiritual error. Some people are overcome by the power of Holy Spirit. We need to have His discernment to know whether or not someone is intending to create a manifestation. If you have that discernment, then you weren't in bondage, were you? Many of us must learn to guard our minds and control our speech, for some of us will utter a curse over ourselves without knowing it. As for your question, most everyone has some error, and many churches preach error of some kind. While the enemy is successful in diverting the truth from people, it doesn't mean that there is an evil spirit around every corner. God gives us the ability by His indwelling spirit to tap into what He says about what anyone teaches, and we have the authority of the word of God to show us without a doubt that someone is in error. We are safe in Him, as long as we are walking with Him, and getting into His word regularly, and seeking Him first above all things. I agree we all need discernment. it is actualy one of the gifts of the spirit paul spoke of in his letter to the Corinthian church. if there was nothing to discern against we would not need the gift would we? jesus told us to watch out for wolves in sheeps clothing, plus the bible said that in the last days satan would do false miricles to decieve god's very elect. And many are deceived enough to jump on the bandwagon of denouncement of all things that pertain to the movement of Holy Spirit. That does not require discernment. dear christian, do you think that i denounce the work of god's spirit? if so why? I am simply addressing the common problem that exists and is very evident in many Christian forums that people air their beefs concerning the WOF and Charismatic believers, without really knowing what they are talking about. It is dangerous ground. as i mentioned before i was involved in the WOF and charismatic movements, in fact they were the very first thing i got involved in once i became a christian What is being written here is not simply a "WOF thing" or a "Charismatic movement thing" -- it is a human thing: The core matter is how thoughts drive actions. So, the question is: What motivates our thinking? Our minds were created as a womb. The seed of our womb is the Word of God. The children of this union with God via the Spirit are His children -- more spirit -- more of Himself birthed in us together with us. Yet, in the garden, we fell. In the garden we took the corrupt seed of another lover: Satan. We bore and rose of corrupt children (thoughts, spirit) to another. We bore and rose up the children of death from the wombs of our heart. We died. All we have left are the continually passed on seeds of thinking began in Eve and then in Adam, passed from person to person, parent to child. Those seeds have expanded into a huge body of thinking over thousands of years and encompass every form from the secular to religions of all stripes and kinds -- including WOF and Charismatics. What motivates us to continue? Emotion -- at many levels, including very hyper or strong emotionalism. Our emotions are our experience of a physical production and exchange of highly addictive chemistry in the pleasure centers of our brains. We literally get high on our thoughts -- that those thoughts originate from seeds planted and provided by a Satanic host and source is the ill of all humanity and the source of our fallen nature. We are literally addicts to this flesh borne, pleasure-driven mass of thoughts passed in various forms from one human being to another. We are not simply content to be corrupt and fall ourselves, we ensnare each other, even parents help entrap and corrupt our children. Religion, even using the name of Jesus Christ, can be of a corrupt seed and source. The issue has been and always will be: How do you tell corrupt from godly seed? What is the key that unlocks discernment to see what seed and thoughts are of Satan, hell and bent in service to the pleasures of the flesh Vs those coming by way of the Spirit: pure, perfect, holy and worthy of God because they are of Him? What does that inward womb and garden of our mind look like when tilled, prepared, planted and flourishing with the seeds and children of the union between the heart of men and the Spirit of God? The Word of God is powerfully deep with answers and clues to this question, but your first step is to see how there is a difference. One of your first clues to your own personal version of this corrupt-seed-thought-pleasure-addiction is to ask yourself: "Do I think what I think for the purpose of deriving pleasure from what I think?" Do you get angry easily? It's because you get high on being angry. Do you get depressed easily? It's because you are addicted to thoughts where you have no hope, no help, no answers and no power or choice. Do you fall to sexual sin easily? It's because you are addicted to thoughts and images of physical pleasures and dwell in them for the "high" you feel -- the chemical release in your brain. Do you gossip easily about others? It's because you get high and are addicted to the feelings you feel of pride and arrogance at standing in self-righteous judgement of others. Have ever heard someone in church say, "I used to get high on drugs. Now, I come to church and get high on Jesus!" Yes -- you are, but perhaps not "drunk in the Spirit" like you might think. Are you really just trading one set of thoughts to get high from for another? Do you hate going back out in the world away from the "high" of being in a church service and are terrified of it because you'll "fall again" -- so you rush to church night after night because there you feel "safe"? You ARE and ADDICT! This is NOT salvation -- this is just trading one set of corrupt thoughts for another set. Salvation is the not simply "a miracle of God." It is not accidental emotionalism and the thoughts attending to such things. Purposeful salvation is first the realization of our "best righteous thoughts" as being what they are: Borne of corrupt seed, wrapped in religious labels. Paul had this experience (e.g. "Hebrew of Hebrews ..." Philippians 2/3). In the midst of thinking he was doing the will of God, Jesus pushed back and showed Paul the source of his thinking: corrupt seed leading to corrupt thoughts, leading to corrupt actions -- all done in the name of God, with utter discipline and fervency. Be careful, "Christian": You and I can do this with "variations" on what Jesus truly came to do. We can so easily take what Jesus did, what He said and even Who He is and build twisted corrupt-borne thoughts upon it and live our lives in complete sin, while bearing out a false witness to a Jesus we a bereft of actually knowing the truth of what Jesus came to demonstrate. The good news in this is that God is very patient and very gracious to us. He understands our blindness and our limitations. He understands the deep blindness we have to be able to see the reality of our sin and our enslavement. So, if you are in that place of struggle and constantly perplexed by sin that so easily besets you, you are not alone. While God does not desire to leave us in this state and though we may remain there for many many years, there is hope in the grace and love of Christ towards us. My deepest prayer for you all and for myself is that we never give up hope! Paul communicated it this way: Php 3:13-15 Brothers, I do not count myself to have laid hold, but one thing I do, forgetting the things behind, and stretching forward to those things before, (14) I press on after a mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. (15) Then as many as are perfect, let us be of this mind; and if you think anything differently, God will also reveal this to you.

On a nearly daily basis, I find myself challenging the thoughts of my own mind. Many times a day, even hourly and minute-by-minute, there are thoughts that swirl about my mind completely motivated by biology and the genetically guided chemistry of it. My heart is an inner sanctum that must be guarded, seeded, cultivated, expanded, fought for and won. The Covenant is not mine, but that of God. The winning of my heart is not something I have power and capacity to do, but is (instead) a work of God Himself of and for His own purpose. So, I participate together with Him, but the question is -- is my participation stunted and hurt by my ignorance or is it helped by revelation? The Father is the giver of revelation. The revelation I am writing about within the pages of this blog are of two flavors -- God Vs Satanic. There is no other. I am blind. I was designed to receive seed and to be a garden of planting and a shared co-laborer. The issue is -- with whom am I paired and partnered? Who is my seed-giver? Who is my husbandman -- the providing the seed I was designed to receive, plant, grow, cultivate, tend and nurture? In the natural, a woman is the nurturer of children. In the supernatural, I am the Bride of Christ. The children of our union is spirit. John 3:6 LITV That having been generated out of the flesh is flesh, and that having been generated out of the Spirit is spirit. The truth of what Jesus has said above is how the Spirit is the one providing or provisioning the seed that begets. The process of having more of the thinking of God is "begetting" -- that is -- the giving of seed: Spiritual Sex. The very Kingdom of God in me and in you is born of this spiritual sexual union between the seed of the Father and the womb of our heart and mind. What has this to do with the title of this blog? Thoughts challenged by faith? Logic and intellect are not ultimately what is needed to accept or reject seed -- from either side. Notably, it was Eve and her logic that paved the way for the seed of Satan to enter her own mental womb (heart) and when that seed entered by way of her logic, she died (in the pristine nature) of her womb. Adam died with her soon after and we all have died as a direct result. We were born with, injected from the outside as weak flesh with the seeds of our Father -- Satan. Know it or not. Like it or not. Agree or not. See it or not. NOTHING in our perception changes or alters the reality of our situation. We are overrun with the seeds and weeds (death) of our father -- Satan (John 8). The ONLY logic needed to combat this seed is a realization of this truth. From here, every thought can then be challenged outright and without question. The ONLY remaining question is to then hold up each thought to God the Father, and to the Son and in the LIGHT of His Word, His Thinking and Thoughts -- from this place, to challenge our own thoughts. Pulling down, burning, destroying and otherwise leaving no stone (thought) stacked upon another (thought). The seeds (thoughts arising) from Satanic injection back with Eve and passed through generations of people (parents, friends, families, societies, cultures) to us, must be torn down and utterly laid waste. Faith in this manner doesn't require but the most basic of understanding. Like children who trust their parents implicitly, we as children of God are to truth the Thinking of our Father delivered to us through the Spirit (Mind) of God as exemplified in the mind and life of Jesus Christ -- and beyond ("And greater things will you do!"). A simple understanding of the mechanism of our mind is all that is required. The simplicity of it is this -- every thought in me born of the flesh is about pleasure. Pleasures of the body and mostly about the pleasures of emotions, pride, arrogance and such things. Thus, the clue of discerning thoughts born of God is to understand what "pleasures" are God-given, ordained and constructed and to know these boundaries clearly. Having these boundaries so set with every increasing clarity allows us to choose our thoughts wisely and discern the seed from which they are spawned. We know who the planter and provider is because the seeds and resulting thoughts match the seed giver! This is how we can inspect: Not based on logic and intelligence, but on simply understanding the seed-giver, his or His nature and then comparing to whose thinking our thoughts line up best to. Logic is not required as a basis, although good logic and reason has a place. It is worldly wisdom and logic and reason that can fool and trick us into a false sense of "righteousness." Thus, we must first acknowledge without wavering our incapacity to have a clean and clear starting point. We must start from the basis of truth -- we are ALL of our father Satan and what Jesus said of him: John 8:42-44 LITV Then Jesus said to them, If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I went forth and have come from God. For I have not come from Myself, but that One sent Me. (43) Why do you not know My speech? It is because you are not able to hear My Word. (44) You are of the Devil as father, and the lusts of your father you desire to do. That one was a murderer from the beginning, and he has not stood in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own, because he is a liar, and the father of it. So, just because the reasoning sounds or seems logic, we must realize how our "point of view" has been poisoned before we ever began forming our logic. That we accepted the logic and poison thinking of others around us doesn't make our reasoning any more right. It just means we bought into the lies from another source and brought them into our hearts and minds, where we planted them, cultivated and nurtured them to full stature. No -- the solution is this: Collect ALL of our thinking (no matter how "right" we believe it to be) and pull it into a pile. At this point -- hang a huge sign on it that says, "NONE OF THIS IS TRUSTWORTHY!" With that in place, we can then go thought by thought from the pile, holding it up to the LIGHT of God's own thinking (delivered to us by and in His Spirit -- see Jesus). In this manner of inspection, we come to KNOW godly seed from the Spirit, the seed is planted in our heart of and by the Spirit of God -- BORN AGAIN! This is the rebirth that Jesus speaks of in John chapter 3 with Nicodemus. Nevertheless, we are left with a simple truth: Thoughts can be challenged by simple faith -- trusting that God is right, His thinking and thoughts are right. Moreover, our thoughts from birth to now are suspicious and to be challenged wholeheartedly and completely. No thought can be clung to as right. No thought can be clung to without proving. Proving does NOT require a great intellect or prowess, but requires a simple examination and trust of the one delivering the seed. This is the simplicity of faith that saves by His working, His power, His plan, His all in all and in all.

Dear Brother Mike. Quiet and Passion/Zeal are NOT mutualy exclusive. I know men who are deeply passionate and zealous who do not also go about flailing their arms like wild banshees at a Super Bowl tail-gate party. I am deeply passionate about the love I have for my wife, but that doesn't mean I have to express it with loud-speakers strapped to the top of my car, parading up and down the street, screaming to high heaven about how much I love her to the annoyance of my neighbors. Having deep passion is mutually exclusive from how it is expressed. Just because people go to an emotional Warp 10 at rock concerts, political rally's, athletic events and such things, doesn't mean there is a need for a constant diet of such behavior in the body of Christ. For 20 plus years I was the most vocal, loudest singing, clapping my hands, lifting my voice, exuberant, wild and wooley-eyed Christian fantatic together with a bunch of other guys and gals who expressed themselves in similar and like manner. Myself and many of them ended up in cycles of sin and destruction, marriages blown apart and lives in turmoil. We ended up that way because we truly did NOT understand HOW we were broken and what God was doing through Christ in us. So, I am unmoved by the "They do it at the Super Bowl, but are quiet little church-mice on Sunday" argument. I have witnessed just as many fanatics at church for years only to see them 20 years down the road in sin, divorce, jail and so on -- lives destroyed. Religious emotional opium didn't have the power to keep them. Why? Because it was never the truth of what God was doing anyway. God is not about stoking, hyping, elating, elevating, lifting or otherwise sending our emotions into orbit. God is about two primary things: A) Forgiving our lifetime of sin. B) Birthing in us a new and regenerated mind that is free from the bondage to lusts in the flesh. Again, this does not mean there is not an appropriate place for an expression of passion and zeal, where the emotions of joy and worshipfulness of God is very much noisy and on display. Jesus told the Jews the rocks would cry out if the disciples were to clam up. Heaven is filled with very loud praise and worship, with effervescent thankfulness and gratefulness to the Father, to Jesus Christ, the Son of God and our Lord (yours and mine). Jesus responded with acceptance to the throngs who cried Hosanna as He rode into Jerusalem. Yet, He knew also it would not last. He knew the very people who were crying Hosanna in that moment would turn shortly thereafter to watch Him wordlessly as He was beaten beyond recognition and cry with equal emotion, "Crucify Him, Crucigy Him!" Brother -- human emotion is fickle because flesh and the lusts of it, driven by sin does NOT care what body of thoughts is USED to gin up the emotions. It ONLY cares that the emotions come so the lusts can be fed. Even the disciples themselves -- Peter in the lead -- "Oh NO Lord, I'll never allow that to happen to you!! I am ready to die for you!!" <-- Peter walking deeply in his own lusts. Mat 16:21 From that time, Jesus began to show to His disciples that it was necessary for Him to go away to Jerusalem, and to suffer many things from the elders and chief priests and scribes, and to be killed, and to be raised on the third day. Mat 16:22 And having taken Him near, Peter began to rebuke Him, saying, God be gracious to You, Lord; this shall never be to You. Mat 16:23 But turning He said to Peter, Go behind Me, Satan! You are an offense to Me, for you do not think of the things of God, but the things of men. Was Peter walking in the Mind of Christ? No, he was operating from the lusts of his flesh. Jesus calls it for what it is. Was Peter feeling intense emotions? You bet he was. Yet, Jesus understood the destiny in front of Peter, that the dross would be removed from the gold of a reborn mind by the Spirit of God in Peter: the seeds were planted and the Spirit was coming to water the crop in the heart of Peter and the result would be Peter with a new mind -- born again of the Spirit, not of the flesh and the lusts of it. So, emotion is fickle because emotions can be so easily confused and justified as "right", and the lusts of the flesh are ok with hyper-emotions generated from hyper-religion. I walked this road for more than 20 years and know the experience of it all to well. I will have zeal and passion in due season and will not shrink back when the season is at hand. Until then, I will eagerly aspire to lead a quiet life of deep passion before the Lord, rising to the occasion of outward passion as the situations merit and need. Finally -- Look at the scripture. Forget (if you like) all I have written above and look at the scripture. If you believe the scripture is breathed and inspired by the Spirit of God (and I think you do), then your answer is there in those words and the Spirit of God and the Father behind them. Those Words came forth from the mouth of the Father. Those words command us to "eagerly aspire to lead a quiet life" and so on. The Word of God commands us to have the Spirit and to take note how the Spirit of God leads us to be temperate and sober, quiet and not obnoxious. There is the view I was looking for: Quiet in this case means -- DO NOT BE AN ANNOYING OBNOXIOUS JERK!!! Be nice! Live well. Have dignity. Show respect. Give respect. Live with honor. Be self-reliant with God as your provider and source. Quiet does NOT mean -- be little timid church mouse. Quiet is not skulking about in wishy-washy timidity, talking in whispers and being a prissy-panzy. This is NOT what it means and it certainly is NOT what I mean. But loud, obnoxious, annoying, sticking out like a boorish sore thumb is not the answer either (and I am NOT suggesting that this is what YOU were or are suggesting). I sure hope this is making sense, brother -- because. I think if you and I were to actually meet, we'd find we've got a lot in common and the Spirit of God would take us towards unity and peace with each other. I am certainly not here making these comments and writing what I am for the purpose of offending you. To the contrary -- my hope, my aim, my heart is to take from the measure of what the Spirit of God has placed and birthed in me, a new mind born of God by the Spirit and impart that, share that and offer it to whoever is in need who will read. I hope you find something of value. I DO indeed find value in your response to me. You've brought some needed balance to what I wrote and I am thankful to God and God formed in YOU for it. Be well in Christ, Mike!

The result of being filled with the Spirit of God and walking from His Spirit (rather than the thoughts of our enslaved mind) is we will be quiet, temperate and sober. What does it mean to be quiet, temperate and sober? What about being filled with the Spirit yields this result in us. Moreover, what about lusts of the flesh controlling our mind produces people who are not quiet, not temperate and not sober? Let's start with the second question first to understand the first question better. Sin uses the lusts of the flesh to war against the mind and take it captive. The chemical needs of the body are met through chemical responses to thoughts and emotions. As a matter of fact, the emotions we experience are most likely our experience of the chemical releases and feeding of the lusts (chemical needs). Nevertheless, the mind is warred against and taken captive for the purpose of producing thoughts to produce chemicals, which feed the needs (lusts and desires) of the flesh for the purposes of sin. The lusts of the flesh are not interested in being quiet. Lusts do not like being temperate. Lusts do not like being sober. Lusts enjoy the opposite. Lusts enjoy loud, intemperate and being drunk. Lusts want more, more and more still. Lusts do not care what thoughts are used to generate the chemical responses. All lusts care about is getting fed at any cost. Lusts are not concerned for self-control, but are deeply interested in finding more. If one dose of chemicals is good, two doses are probably twice and good -- according to lusts. This is the experience of any addict (drugs, drink, sex, gambling, etc). Lusts are never completely satisfied at the present level (temperate), but want, desire and strive (fight, find, seek, pursue, go after, etc) for more. Lusts are fed from the chemical responses to the thoughts of our mind. This is why lusts war against the mind (Romans 7 and James 3). Our mind is the fulcrum of the battle against sin. Recapture the mind to Christ and the battle turns against the flesh and lusts and sin. Sin in us and the lusts of our body are present until we die. Thus, the battle is lifelong. Nevertheless, what has this to do with quiet, temperate and sober? Above, we've seen how the affects of lusts, the depth of lusts and the strength of the desires are not only deep, but deepening. Lusts adore being drunk (not sober), adore being intenese (not quiet) and adore more, more and more (not temperate). Lusts are not satisfied with low to moderate, even and steady. Lusts are the opposite. This, then, brings us to the Spirit of God within us. His Mind delivered into us is NOT bound to lusts. There is a truth to understand here: God designed our bodies. God is the one who gave our bodies the way of working they have. He designed the chemical needs and chemical responses. Sin merely took advantage of the design in an effort to corrupt it, and corrupt the design it did. Nevertheless, God designed the body to work in a cycle of chemcial needs and responses to fill the needs. The original design was for our minds to be patterned from God, His Mind and how He Thinks. Our minds patterned after His own and working flawless like Him, would still produce thoughts. Those thoughts being patterned after God Himself, would still produce chemical responses in our bodies and the chemical needs would be met, but in accordance with and in perfect unity with the Mind of God (Spirit of God, the Father and Jesus Christ). In this place of operating in our minds just like our Father in heaven, the resulting "feeding" of the chemical needs of our body would be done, quietly, soberly, temperately. In other words, the chemical needs of the flesh would be met without the flesh taking center stage. The Mind of God along with the minds of His children would be center stage and this would work out the will and purpose of God perfectly and without flaw. The key to bear in mind is how the flesh would play a supporting role to the mind of man and the Mind of God, Himself. Sin turned this design on its head! Sin came and said, "Turn from God and live by the lusts of the flesh!" When this happened, we disconnected from His Mind and walking with Him and His Spirit and we started walking to a different tune. Sin in the flesh using the lusts of the flesh, then warred against the mind and took it captive (enslaved it) to the purposes of sin in the flesh and the feeding of the lusts. This new cycle of action took the restraints off of lusts and let lust run unbridled ("loose cannon on deck"). Now, lusts are in control. Lusts under the guidance and command of sin, are now in control to do as they please. What lusts and sin please is louder and louder, more intense, more, more and more. Lusts want to be drunk to excess. Lusts want to be loud and seen. Lusts do not want temperance, but MORE! So, as we are turning to Jesus Christ, this whole matter of salvation is about putting (step by step) the machine on the road to heading back to the original design: God in control and we following the Mind of God, rather than lusts. Yet, in this life, lusts and sin are still there, still capable, still ready and still battling, warring and wanting. Thus, we have a fight on our hands: A fight to remain focused on the Spirit (Mind) of God and what and how God thinks; setting aside our lust-inspired thoughts and picking up His Thoughts that He offers to us in the place of our own. The way we can measure this happening in our lives is to look for the quietness, the sobriety and the temperateness of our lives being lived. We're not yelling, obnoxious, loud and so on. We're not intense emotionalists and we're satisfied with less (in terms of flesh and lusts) rather than more. The temperate part is a good example: We're given to doing good things with friends and family, rather than ever louder excessive parties. We're not given to excess where we find ourselves drugged, drunk and destroying ourselves in sexual antics (secret, open or otherwise) or gambling or other excesses. We're not "work-a-holics" or given to other excesses. We're moderate in all things, even-handed, quiet and teachable (meek). We're not easily offended and defensive. We don't go sailing off the handle over small issues and even in large issues, we exercise emotional and intellectual restraint. Such things are evidence that we're headed towards the Spirit of God. But beware -- even quietness, temperateness and sobriety can be masked in flesh and lusts. How? When we start to think things like, "Look how quiet I am!" or "Look how temperate and moderate I am!" or "Look how sober I am!" When we start to set ourselves up as something special to ourselves (inwardly - self-righteousness and self-justification) then lusts and sin has found a back-door. Nevertheless, these are good clues (quiet, temperate and sober) as to the direction of our lives: either towards the Spirit of God within us or towards lusts. The key is knowing the difference and knowing how we work, how we're enslaved and to set aside our thinking and ways of thinking for His ways of thinking and His thoughts. This is the CORE issue. This is the CORE matter to bear in mind always: My thoughts of my natural mind are enslaved. My lusts of my flesh of sin in my body is fighting and warring for control of my mind. Only His Spirit in me and the work of His Spirit in me to regenerate, renew and transform my thoughts and thinking to be like His own will save me and give me freedom from enslavement! (1Th 4:11) And eagerly aspiring to be quiet, and to do your own things, and to work with your own hands, as we enjoined you, (1Th 5:6) So then, we should not sleep, as the rest also do, but we should watch and be sober. (1Th 5:8) But we being of day should be sober, "having put on the breastplate" of faith and love, and the hope of "salvation as a helmet;" Isa. 59:17 (1Ti 2:2) for kings and all the ones being in high position, that we may lead a tranquil and quiet existence in all godliness and dignity. (1Ti 3:2) Then it behooves the overseer to be blameless, husband of one wife, temperate, sensible, well-ordered, hospitable, apt at teaching; (1Ti 3:11) Likewise, their wives are to be reverent, not slanderers, temperate, faithful in all things. (Tit 1:8) but hospitable, a lover of good, discreet, just, holy, temperate, (Tit 2:2) aged men to be temperate, sensible, discreet, sound in faith, in love, in patience; (1Pe 1:13) Because of this, having girded up the loins of your mind, being sober, perfectly hope on the grace being brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ, (1Pe 3:4) but the hidden man of the heart, in the incorruptible adornment of the meek and quiet spirit, which is of great value before God. http://imaginationbuster.blogspot.com/

This needs to be quoted in the wider context. The focus of what Paul is trying to communicate is on LOVE and NOT on tongues. The statement about tongues is a statement of scope and depth; doing something to the uttermost. Look at the larger scope and you'll see this: 1. The implied scope of "tongues of men" is ALL languages - every known language. Paul widens the scope to include the languages of heaven itself (angels). Again, the focus is not on the languages, but on the capacity to do something, anything and lack ANY LOVE while doing it. 2. "... if I have prophecies ..." "... all mysteries ..." "... all knowledge ..." "... all faith ..." -- Again, Paul's point here is to show depth and scope of things that he COULD DO (not that he DOES DO), yet doing WITHOUT LOVE. 3. "... all my goods ..." even to the point (again - scope!) where I offer my own body to be burned! This is about depth and scope to the uttermost of what human beings can do. The message is: Whatever great thing you can think of as being valuable; if you do it without love, the value is a big fat zero! So, when Paul includes the phrase "of angels" here, he is not suggesting that one of the marks of the gift of "tongues" is that we will speak heavenly languages by the Spirit of God! Again -- look at the wider context and message Paul was conveying: A more main thought starts back at about verse 3 of chapter 12: I became a Christian in a church that preached "speaking in unknown tongues" was a "sign" of the indwelling gift of the Spirit. So -- been there, done that. After 25 years, I am NOT inclined to remain in the position of saying, THE KEY sign of having the Spirit of God is speaking in tongues. Actually, such a thing is a complete distraction from the reality of knowing how we're filled with the Spirit of God, and to what purpose we are filled. The true test of knowing if you're filled with the Spirit is when you WALK (live, speak and do) [by|of|from] the Spirit of God! Moreover, we must not only understand what the end result looks like, but the PURPOSE of being filled. I know plenty of "tongue talkers" (including myself) who "spoke in tongues", but whose lives reflected mostly "works of the flesh" and not "fruits of the Spirit" (Galatians 5 and others). The article rightly points out verses like 12:11 above, where Paul points out the diversity of the outward manifestations of the gifts of the Spirit. Tongues (languages and interpretations) is in this list of diversified giftings. If Paul was holding that it was THE KEY, he would have left it out of this list in chapter 12 or would have qualified it (i.e. he would have distinctly said something like, "distributing separately as He wills, except for tongues, which is given to all equally and not diversly." As a matter of fact, Paul expands on the diversity theme by pointing out that our "gifts of the Spirit" are like organs and parts of the body. He names hands and feet, but could have gone on to name legs, arms, heart, stomach and so on, but hands and feet were enough to communicate the point. Moreover, Paul again returns to the gift list in verses 27-28: 1Co 12:27 And you are Christ's body, and members in part. 1Co 12:28 And God placed some in the assembly: firstly, apostles; secondly, prophets; thirdly, teachers; then works of power; then gifts of healing, helps, governings, kinds of languages. Specifically, we are "members in part". In other words, someone gets the be the hand, another a foot, another and arm and so on. Paul then reiterates SOME of the gifts to communicate his point. The last gift on the list is tongues. Again, this is NOT "heavenly languages" (angel-speak), but are languages of men. God gives some people the capacity to learn and speak other languages for the purpose of spreading the gospel to ALL groups of men! The learning and interpretation of languages is NOT miraculous, but is a gifting of the Spirit nontheless. Look at the list in verse 28. It is an ORDERED list (see the words "firstly" "secondly" "thirdly"), so we know we have an ordered list. If "tongues" are given miraculously, then what of "helps" and "governings?" Are we to say that someone gets hands laid on them, the Spirit of God comes rushing into them and suddenly they know how to help and govern (i.e. run things)? Utter nonsense! What we do is we get a notion in our head and then want to foist that notion on to anything we read or see that has to do with the notion (thought) in our mind. What is interesting is the MOTIVATION for wanting to do that -- LUSTS! We insist on doing such things because the flesh finds a lust feeding mechanism and does what it ALWAYS does: USES the mind to produce thoughts, which produce the chemistry that the lusts feed upon! I can tell you this from personal experience. I was an arduous tongue talker, filled with the Spirit, but sinned in the shadows with absolute ignorance and without a whit of self-control! I secretly and sometimes openly ran in the works of the flesh and even my "fruits of the Spirit" were feigned and faked. What is abundantly clear to me is -- I WAS AND AM NOT ALONE IN THIS TYPE OF LIVING! What is more -- If you would have confronted me THEN on the matter, I would have used your confrontation of me as an excuse to "defend" which was just another lust feeding mechanism at work. Any attack on "what I believed" would have been and was used by my lusts as an excuse to gin up all sorts of "defense thoughts" and then to have those thoughts, with the intense emotions, which in turn fed my lusts -- all in the name of Jesus Christ, religion and so on. I would have raised my voice, become "passionate" about the matter. I would have perhaps thrown down the guantlet of "How dare you challenge me in this! Look here ... scripture scripture scripture scripture ... blah blah blah." There would have been intense defending and emotions on my part. I can remember ridiculing people, yelling and in one instance, almost getting into a fight over "religion" (can you say, "Witness Gone Wild?"). Now -- compare this to the actual Fruits of the Gifts of the Spirit. The TRUE fruits of the Spirit are: A key argument that was generally given as a "proof" of "unknown tongues" as THE SIGN you'd been "filled with the Spirit" was how those who DID NOT speak with other tongues tended to be less or NOT "on-fire" than those who did speak with tongues. This is the type of anecdotal evidence that gets preached and set up before people as though we can count on it to the same level as scripture itself! The truth is: it IS anecdotal and is based on emotions, which my experience has been -- there are MANY preachers who are preaching in the flesh to other people operating in the flesh. They use trappings of the Spirit - religiously laced thoughts and resulting words - as a vehicle to provide deeply intense emotions from which the flesh feeds and feeds and feeds. As a matter of fact, the feeding machine is deepened and rutted by such activity. The whole notion of "being on fire" can utterly be divorced from the reality of what it means to walk from the Spirit of God; His Mind in us, being formed and renewed in us. What I am NOT going to do is to say, "If you speak in an 'unknown' tongue, you are NOT a Christian and are not saved." This is not true. In my own case, there was a core seed of the Spirit of God that was planted in me: an experience of knowing God was real and there, that all my sinning (even as a "Christian") could not erase. God knew. God has timing. The Lord sees our entire life and is not limited in sight like we are. So, if you "speak with other tongues" and babble on in prayer and praise -- well -- then you do and that is that. I am NOT here to judge you, condemn you or any other such thing at all. However -- that said -- I WILL and DO warn you: Take heed, pay attention, look, see, stop, slow down, calm your mind, get sober (-Vs- drunk on "I am right!" and the emotions of being right and defending) and become aware. Set aside what you "believe" about tongues and put your focus on the whole matter of living. May I suggest a place to start? The BEST place to start for real and honest self-examination (2Co 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether you are in the faith; test yourselves.) is to understand HOW you work, HOW your mind is enslaved to the lusts of your flesh and the REALITY of what God is trying to do in your life. The very least thing God is trying to do in you, through you and with you is having you babbling in tongues in prayer and praise! It is the VERY least thing! FOCUS! LOOK! STOP! GO SLOW! START WITH an understanding of how the lusts of your flesh USE and ENSLAVE your mind to produce thoughts and emotions. Gain an understanding of how thoughts and emotions instantly produce the chemical responses which feed the very lusts of your flesh. START HERE. IF you do, you'll take light-years steps towards GETTING and UNDERSTANDING the salvation of Jesus Christ in your life. When you gain an understanding of HOW the lusts of your flesh feed and DO NOT care about the CONTENT of your thinking, you'll gain an understanding of how the lusts of the flesh can use "religious trappings" (thoughts) and how such thoughts can actually and in reality be feeding the lusts of the flesh and are NOT of or by the Spirit of God! Mat 7:15 But beware of the false prophets who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inside they are plundering wolves. When I use the word "trappings" it is another word for clothing. So, people can dress up in "sheep's clothing". I am pointing at the same thing Jesus is pointing at: You can and WILL meet people who do all sorts of things, INCLUDING "speaking with tongues" and it is just their lusts using religious "trappings" (sheeps clothing) as a vehicle for producing thoughts, producing chemicals to feed the lusts. Moreover, they then ENTICE YOU to do the VERY SAME THING! And because you are human and already fallen -- your "conversion" is simply a rearrangement of the deck chairs on the Titanic. You've changed the clothes, but the wolf within you is still feeding! 2Co 11:13 For such ones are false apostles, deceitful workers transforming themselves into apostles of Christ. Go back to the list of gifts; the ORDERED list! The very FIRST gift is that of "Apostle". Now, Paul is pointing out how men can be "false apostles". If the very first gift can be falsified, then every other gift can be as well -- right down to languages. This means there are not only people who are operating in false gifts, who APPEAR real, but they are propogating, teaching, expanding and enticing others to feed the lusts of their own flesh using the precise same set of thoughts! I challenge you again: START SOMEWHERE. The place to start is to get an understanding how how the lusts in YOUR body war against, capture and enslave your mind and how the lusts USE your mind to produce the thoughts, which produce the chemicals that feed the lusts. Rom 7:23 but I see another law in my members having warred against the law of my mind, and taking me captive by the law of sin being in my members. Jam 4:1 From where do wars and fightings among you come? Is it not from this, from your lusts warring in your members? I challenge you again: START SOMEWHERE. The place to start is to get an understanding how how the lusts in YOUR body war against, capture and enslave your mind and how the lusts USE your mind to produce the thoughts, which produce the chemicals that feed the lusts.

In a fuller context. Col 1:18 And He is the Head of the body, the assembly, who is the Beginning, the First-born out of the dead, that He be preeminent in all things; Col 1:19 because all the fullness was pleased to dwell in Him, Col 1:20 and through Him making peace by the blood of His cross, to reconcile all things to Himself; through Him, whether the things on the earth, or the things in the heavens. Col 1:21 And you then being alienated and hostile in your mind by evil works, but now He reconciled Col 1:22 in the body of His flesh, through death, to present you holy and without blemish and irreproachable before Him, Col 1:23 if indeed you continue in the faith grounded and settled and not being moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard proclaimed in all the creation under Heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister, Col 1:24 who now rejoice in my sufferings on your behalf and fill up in my flesh the things lacking of the afflictions of Christ on behalf of His body, which is the assembly, Col 1:25 of which I became a minister, according to the administration of God given to me for you, to fulfill the Word of God, Col 1:26 the mystery having been hidden from the ages and from the generations, but now was revealed to His saints; Col 1:27 to whom God willed to make known what are the riches of the glory of this mystery among the nations, who is Christ in you, the hope of glory; Col 1:28 whom we announce, warning every man and teaching every man in all wisdom, that we may present every man full-grown in Christ Jesus, Col 1:29 for which also I labor, struggling according to the working of Him who works in me in power. The question was: Is Paul saying the gospel must be preached to every creature and not just to every man? Bear in mind ANY English translation IS A TRANSLATION and not the Greek Paul wrote and communicated in. The text above is from Dr. Jay P. Greene's Literal Translation. I appreciate the work and find it does an honest job in modern English. So, looking at verse 23, we can see Paul is talking about the scope. Man is the target hearer of the gospel and the scope is ALL men in ALL of creation. This is fairly clear.

DISCLAIMER: This response is NOT written directly to "Larry 2". The target audience is ANYONE reading and about humanity IN GENERAL (as opposed to specifically ONE person). Please read with this viewpoint in mind. Key words and phrases in what you've written above: "looking for", "indignant", "intolerant", "social gospel", "seems right", "own works", "help themselves", "self-righteousness" 1. Which one of these words and phrases is based on WHAT and HOW God Thinks (the Father)? 2. Look at each word and realize HOW it fits in the machine (law) of the lusts of the flesh: a. "looking for" --> Lusts of the flesh seek out opportunities in the circumstances of life to USE the enslaved mind to produce thoughts, which in turn produce the chemical responses, which feed the lusts. b. "indignant" --> An emotion resulting from thoughts from a mind enslaved to lusts. Indignation produces chemical responses that lusts feed from (are met by). c. "intolerant" --> Another emotion doing the precise same thing. Note how a core theme of these emotions are lines of division, classification (race, color, socio-economic, etc). d. "social gospel" --> NOT the gospel of Jesus Christ addressing our enslavement and bondage, but another message of human and demonic origin where people are (again) classified and placed into categories of victim, perpetrator or rescuer. Each classification carries an emotional attachment to the thoughts behind it. Moreover, note that in this machine (law) of lusts, there is only ONE purpose: thoughts and emotions producing the chemicals needed to fill and full-fill the lusts (chemical needs) of the body. e. "seems right" --> We were built for being right. Even in our fallen state, we seek out justification even if it is our own. The ugly part of lust feeding is we also self-generate thoughts in an attempted framework of self-justification to where they "seem right" to us. Yet, when held up to the Thoughts and Thinking of God, Himself (the Father), we are way off target (sin). What we then do is retreat into darkness (hiding, ignorance and turning from looking at God and looking at ourselves and each other). Here we hide and hang out. Not only do we self-justify in this place, but we offer each other validation for our thinking. What is nefarious and insidious about it is -- even this thoughts and resulting emotions of and coming from self-justification are simply another vehicle the lusts of the flesh use to produce MORE CHEMISTRY to feed from! f. "own works" --> The word works is referring to the operation of the Lust-Mind-Thought-Emotion-Chemical machine at work. That it is our "own" simply says we're operating in a broken machine apart from God and His Spirit (Mind and mental disposition) as our basis. Moreover, it is NOT just our own self, but the combination of each other working together as groups -BUT- more damning than this is: Satan is the father of it all. Satan is standing behind and is the source and pattern for our enslaved thinking and lust feeding. We are blind to this, self-deluded and hiding in darkness and ignorance to how the Devil works in and through humanity -- including you and I (without Christ). g. "help themselves" --> This ought to be pretty obvious to you now having read what is written above. h. "self-righteousness" --> Ditto. This is about emotional feeding and lusts. That the thoughts are semi-religious means very little. The lusts of the flesh are blind to whether the thoughts have to do with religion, with non-religion, with anything at all. The core purpose is not to quibble about the contents of the thinking. The core purpose is to have the mind produce thoughts, which result in emotions, which together cause a chemical response, which satisfies and feeds the chemical needs (lusts) of the flesh. God certainly does NOT regard thoughts and thinking of men, which are based on lusts. God is not interested in the trash of our enslaved thinking and sin, except to free us and deliver us from the bondage to our lusts, by the work of Jesus Christ and the indwelling of His Spirit in us to the core purpose of A) forgiveness of our life-long sins and B) the regeneration and renewing of our mind to be based on His Mind ONLY. Moreover, that our words and actions would then be patterned and performed from this renewed mind. Paul first points out the contents of his own enslaved thinking through Judaism: Php 3:4 Even though I might have trust in flesh; if any other thinks to trust in flesh, I more; Php 3:5 in circumcision, the eighth day, of the race of Israel, the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of the Hebrews; according to Law, a Pharisee; Php 3:6 according to zeal, persecuting the assembly; according to righteousness in Law, being blameless. Then Paul points out how he views this body of thinking he once had: Php 3:7 But what things were gain to me, these I have counted loss because of Christ. Then Paul points out what is his new prize: Php 3:8 But, no, rather I also count all things to be loss because of the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord, for whose sake I have suffered the loss of all things and count them to be trash, that I might gain Christ Php 3:9 and be found in Him; not having my own righteousness of Law, but through the faith of Christ, having the righteousness of God on faith, Php 3:10 to know Him and the power of His resurrection, and the fellowship of His sufferings, having been conformed to His death, Php 3:11 if somehow I may attain to a resurrection out of the dead. Simply said -- Paul has tossed away ALL the content of his enslaved to lust mind and is constantly seeking the Mind of Christ in himself by the Holy Spirit, which has come as a result of Jesus Christ, His Life, His Death and His Resurrection. Read this above once again looking for the lust driven "Thoughts + Emotions". QUIT looking at the content of the thoughts. Ignore the content for a moment and read for seeing the machine at work (the machine of lust-thought-emotion-feeding). Once you see this machine at work, you'll then understand the insidiousness of our bondage and enslavement. Once you see HOW we are broken, you'll begin to see and appreciate the work of Jesus Christ towards our forgiveness and deliverance. Deliverance is simply when we see how we're bound and then set aside (by our choice) the enslaved mind and start seeking what God thinks and HOW He Thinks for the purpose of resting in, meditating on and the Spirit of God renewing and regenerating our mind into the PRECISE same likeness (to a measure and from smaller measure to greater measure as life goes on). NOW -- go back and read scriptures like: Joh 8:33 They answered Him, We are Abraham's seed, and we have been in slavery to no one, never! How do You say, You will become free? Joh 8:34 Jesus answered them, Truly, truly, I say to you, Everyone practicing sin is a slave of sin. Joh 8:35 But the slave does not remain in the house forever; the son remains to the age. Joh 8:36 Therefore, if the Son sets you free, you are free indeed. The Jews were deeply encased in Jewish religious thoughts. Their flesh took advantage of the Law of God and the Word of God and happily found its own thoughts apart from the Thoughts of God, where it's (lusts) own thoughts, generated through the enslaved mind, would produce the emotions that would produce the chemistry for the consumption of the lusts. All wrapped with a pretty Jewish Religious Tradition Bow and the feeding fest began. Not only this -- but it was passed from generation to generation, from father to child, mother to child, friend to friend and enemy to enemy. Each persons lusts and flesh taking advantage of the situations and circumstances to find a body of thoughts from which to feed. You and I today (without Christ) are NO DIFFERENT. We have inherited this self-same body of thought down a 2,000 year old tree of relationship. Christians CAN do with the gospel of Jesus Christ what the Jews did with the Law and the Torah. It has happened for centuries and it happens today. It will happen tomorrow and will continue ad infinitum until Jesus comes again: Mat 24:4 And answering, Jesus said to them, See that not any leads you astray. Mat 24:5 For many will come in My name, saying, I am the Christ. And they will cause many to be led astray. Mat 24:10 And then many will be offended, and they will deliver up one another and will hate one another. Mat 24:13 But the one who endures to the end, that one will be kept safe.

You call it nonsense I call it God's word. I commend all those that stand for God's truth and refute the very dangerous false doctrine of OSAS. AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You've come looking for a bone of contention. James 4:1 From where do wars and fightings among you come? Is it not from this, from your lusts warring in your members? What are the lusts warring in our members? Romans 7:23 but I see another law in my members having warred against the law of my mind, and taking me captive by the law of sin being in my members. "Wars" --> G4171 πόλεμος polēmos pol'-em-os From πέλομαι pelomai (to bustle); warfare (literally or figuratively; a single encounter or a series): - battle, fight, war. "Fightings" --> G3163 μάχη machē makh'-ay From G3164; a battle, that is, (figuratively) controversy: - fighting, strive, striving. Thus, battle, fight, war, fighting, strive, striving, controversy, etc. Now, see: Gal 5:15 But if you bite and devour one another, be careful that you are not consumed by one another. Gal 5:16 But I say, Walk in the Spirit, and you will not fulfill the lust of the flesh. Gal 5:17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another; lest whatever you may will, these things you do. Gal 5:18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under Law. Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are clearly revealed, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lustfulness, Gal 5:20 idolatry, sorcery, enmities, fightings, jealousies, angers, rivalries, divisions, heresies, Gal 5:21 envyings, murders, drunkenness, revelings, and things like these; of which I tell you beforehand, as I also said before, that the ones practicing such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is: love, joy, peace, long-suffering, kindness, goodness, faith, Gal 5:23 meekness, self-control. Against such things there is not a law. Gal 5:24 But the ones belonging to Christ crucified the flesh with its passions and lusts. "Stir" --> bustle: a rapid active commotion http://wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=stir Your own word points to the truth of the heart and intent: WAR. You came here to pick a fight. In doing so, you violate the very thing you claim to be about: Christ. This action of yours is NOT the Mind of Christ. Jesus does not come to stir up trouble (i.e. stir the pot). The ones belonging to Christ crucified the flesh with its passions and lusts. Your lack of this level of understanding (to me) cast great doubt on any premise following from what you have either written or pointed to (i.e. the article link you provided). FROM HERE IS A GENERIC COMMENT NOT directed at "Brandon's Popo": This is precisely what I mean when I in many post point out how Christians are largely unaware of HOW we are broken, how we work (our mechanics - the laws which govern how we work - see Roman 7) and what the Lord is providing as the solution to our problem. A) Forgiveness of our lifetime of sin (birth to death). B) A New Mind - reborn, regenerated, transformed, renewed and born again of Spirit, not of flesh. The Mind of Christ, that of the Father living in us, changing our disposition to be like His own, glory-to-glory, measure to measure and parcel by parcel. I went and read the article and the points lack the underlaying understanding of how we work in our brokenness and what's wrong, much less the solution to it. No understanding of the problem leads to a misunderstanding of the solution. Thus, articles such as this are the result: The best people can get to is "Once Save Always Saved." Unity and love is having the Mind of Christ in measure formed in us and - if we are to strive - striving for His Mind transforming ours to be of the same disposition as the Father. If we have His Mind and His Way of Thinking, then we have set aside our -- motivated by lusts and sin in our bodies, which has captured and enslaved our minds. The key clue to thoughts, words and actions born of a mind enslaved to lusts is the list found in Galatians 5. Read it, then measure what is said and done, written and spoken against such things to discern the mind from which the sayings and doings are born (from where they arise - to use James word - "Whence cometh _____?"). CLARIFICATION: To say that Jesus has not come to stir up trouble is to not ignore: Mat 10:34 Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. Mat 10:35 I came to divide a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a bride against her mother-in-law. Mat 10:36 "Ones hostile to the man shall be those of his own house." Mic. 7:6 Mat 10:37 The one loving father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me. And the one loving son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. Mat 10:38 And who does not take up his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. What sword has Jesus brought and what form of division is He intending? Eph 6:16 Above all, taking up the shield of faith, with which you will be able to quench all the darts of the evil one being kindled. Eph 6:17 Also, take "the helmet of salvation," and the sword of the Spirit which is the Word of God; Eph 6:18 through all prayer and petition, praying at all times in the Spirit, and watching to this same thing with all perseverance and petition concerning all the saints. This is about having the Mind of Christ in us. Once we have the Spirit indwelling, our minds being regenerated (John 3) and renewed: Eph 4:22 For you have put off the old man, as regards the former behavior, having been corrupted according to the deceitful lusts, Eph 4:23 and to be renewed in the spirit of your mind, Eph 4:24 and to put on the new man, which according to God was created in righteousness and true holiness. What is the new man? Col 3:5 Then put to death your members (the ones warring against your mind and taking it captive - Romans 7) which are on the earth: fornication, uncleanness, passion, evil lust, and covetousness, which is idolatry; Col 3:6 on account of which things the wrath of God is coming on the sons of disobedience, Col 3:7 among whom you also walked at one time, when you were living in these. Col 3:8 But now, you also, put off all these things: wrath, anger, malice, evil-speaking, shameful speech out of your mouth. Col 3:9 Do not lie to one another, having put off the old man with his practices (see Galatians 5:21 ... the ones practicing ...), Col 3:10 and having put on the new, having been renewed in full knowledge according to the image of the One creating him, Col 3:11 where there is no Greek and Jew, circumcision and uncircumcision, foreigner, Scythian, slave or freeman, but Christ is all things and in all. THIS IS ABOUT YOUR MIND!!!!!! Either ... A) ENSLAVED to the lusts of your flesh and sin operating therein ... OR ... B) RENEWED, regenerated (John 3), transformed (Rom 12:2 And be not conformed to this age, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, in order to prove by you what is the good and pleasing and perfect will of God.) We walk in A) Forgiveness for a lifetime of sin ... towards .. what? A license to sin? NO! God forbid it! We walk towards B) A growing measure of the Mind of Christ formed in us -- our new man, a renewed mind, reborn in the image of Christ -- His Mind in us to be like God, which mind is IMPOSSIBLE to violate being like God because it is renewed (in measure). Jas 2:18 But someone will say, You have faith, and I have works. Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith out of my works. Jas 2:19 You believe that God is One. You do well; even the demons believe and shudder. Jas 2:20 But are you willing to know, O vain man, that faith apart from works is dead? James could say this as he was striving for the Mind of Christ formed in himself -- putting off the old man of the enslaved to lusts mind and putting on the new mind of Christ made available to him from the Word of God and the indwelling Spirit of God! Why is this simple thing not understood by so many Christians? BECAUSE -- Fleshly lusts USE and FEED from religious thoughts, doctrines and dogmas as easily and well as from non-religious ones. The flesh and lusts will USE and ENSLAVE the natural mind to have a huge spread of religious thought from which to feed on. What is the clue of this happening????? Now, you figure it out for yourself if you've been paying attention!!

This is NOT written to kat8585. This is written generically to ALL people who will read these words. I am putting this disclaimer on here because thin-skinned people take generic words personally and then get bent. To make it clear, I am writing this disclaimer NOW, BEFORE I write anything else. Don't forget "faith" as well. I heard this little speech on my way home. Sirius satelite radio has non-stop "DNC Convention" coverage on 113 (as I recall). I heard a small part of this speech before becoming so disgusted with it, I turned it off. I did happen to hear the "abortion is one of our core values" and is stunning to see how people are deceived and twist things to fit what their flesh wants. Here is the core issue that the Democrat party is exemplifying in greater measure than the Republicans (NOT that Republicans are exempt by ANY means!). The principles on which the Democrats are espousing, believing and the basis they are working from is more coming from lusts, flesh and sin: Abortion is a key example. Homosexuality is another. If you listen to her speech, her first, foremost and primary "core values" were ALL centered around what the Bible (Word of God) refers to as "works of the flesh" (lusts). It is NOT that the Republicans are that much better. This is the basis of "lesser of two evils" and why voting to put in to power over us people of certain belief systems becomes highly critical. Nevertheless, our (We the People) ignorance of what is truly wrong with us as people (sinners bound and enslaved in our minds to lusts and flesh) is what will do us in (it always does). However, getting and gaining that understanding IS THE KEY to turning the ship about. Further, it is NOT expecting or convincing our politicians of these matters. The key is to give this understanding to We the People (us, you and I). The larger this understanding penetrates the American people, the government of an election will correspond to it. We the People have lost our way in our understanding. Moreover, we barely had it to begin with. Our grasp on the understanding of ourselves was always tenuous to begin with. Our largely ill-founded basis of faith was the seed of destruction and still is. By ill-founded, I mean our lack of understanding of HOW we are broken and what the Lord has come to do to bring us out of slavery to our lusts and flesh and into the freedom of a new Mind in Christ Jesus. We think our Christian traditions, doctrines and dogmas are the key -- they are not. We simply have replaced Jewish Traditionalism with Christian Traditionalism. If Christ were standing here now, he'd level the same accusation at the bulk of Christians as He did to the Jews: If reading this angers you, perhaps it does because you do NOT see HOW you work in lusts and sin and how it captures your mind and how it works in you, so that even your religious, Christian thoughts are actually in service to the lusts of the flesh. I walked in those EXACT shoes for more than 20 years. Even today -- I am in the process of hearing from the Lord, seeing the Father and battling my way out of that hole through the working of His Spirit in me to the regenerating of my mind to be like His own (the Father). Democrats (IMHO) are just further down the lusts, flesh and sin trail than the Republicans. But that isn't the core issue: the State of the Heart of We the People is the CORE issue. Our politicians are the result and outward symptom of our own disgrace and falling.

BTW - This post is NOT written specifically or PERSONALLY to or about any one person. This is to ALL who believe in the Darwinian nonsense as a whole.

Actually, there is a goal beneath the goal. This higher reason of "kill as many ..." is smokescreen above the real driver in the driver seat. To understand this requires an understanding of how WE (as people) work: BOTH "Muslim" and "Christian" and everyone. We all share a common mechanic, a common "law" of HOW we're broken. Some express it in Muslim hate. Others express it in racial hate. Other express it in abortion. The expressions and working out of this brokenness is nearly endless. Thus: Mat 7:13 Go in through the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and many are the ones entering in through it. 14 For narrow is the gate, and constricted is the way that leads away into life, and few are the ones finding it.

NObama --> INDIRECT Murderer His talk of faith and Christianity is a ruse. He believes it sincerely. To me, there is little doubt of that fact. However, sincerity is NOT what makes us saved or upright. It's the old saying -- believing sincerely, but sincerely wrong. Obama is sincerely wrong and the net results are not only tragic choices, but dangerous choices. There are now children who are dying (who knows how many) because of Obama's choices, linked to the choices of others around him. The Lord bless you all for having the sight of His eyes to see it and the courage within yourselves to stand up for what is right and good.

Read Genesis Flood by John C. Whitcomb http://www.amazon.com/Genesis-Flood-John-C...b/dp/0875523382

1. Where did I call you a "name"? Point it out in what I wrote? 2. Where was I being "rude"? Point it out in what I wrote? If I wrote something that is NOT the Mind of Christ, the Mind of the Spirit of God, point it out?

You just called EricH a liar. It was not only rude, but lacked the respect that you called for. You say we are not free to disagree, yet you disagree with his statement. Joh 8:55 And you have not known Him; but I know Him, And if I say that I do not know Him, I shall be like you, a liar. But I know Him, and I keep His Word. Jesus called the Jews liars. By the standard you just applied, Jesus was being "rude". Calling a lie for what it is, is not being rude. It's being truthful. You are pointing that the wrong part of the statement. The fruit of our liberty walking in the Spirit and Mind of Christ brings us towards unity because there is NO disagreement in the Spirit of God. You accuse me of something I've already admitted to: that when there is disagreement, there is no unity. Only ONE of several conditions exist: 1. Either BOTH are NOT in the Mind of Christ --> yielding disagreement. 2. One of the two is NOT in the Mind of Christ --> yielding disagreement. 3. BOTH are in the Mind of Christ --> yielding UNITY and agreement. Thus, in this case one of these conditions apply. If you think anything I wrote was NOT the Mind of Christ, then point out what Jesus or the Father thinks of the matter and back it up with scripture. In pointing at the Mind of God, the Spirit of God and what God thinks on the matter, THEN we'll agree. No -- we are NOT free to "agree to disagree": We are (rather) commanded to strive toward the unity of the Spirit. That is the God ordained and commanded goal and target. We are not free to disagree IF so we are walking in and towards the Spirit of God.

Sorry -- what you've written is not scriptural, but a lie. We are NOT free to disagree, but we are commanded to: Eph 4:1 Then I, the prisoner in the Lord, exhort you to walk worthily of the calling in which you were called, Eph 4:2 with all humility and meekness, with long-suffering, bearing with one another in love, Eph 4:3 being eager to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. Eph 4:4 There is one body and one Spirit, even as you also were called in one hope of your calling; Eph 4:5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism, Eph 4:6 one God and Father of all, the One above all and through all and in you all. ... Eph 4:11 And indeed He gave some to be apostles; and some prophets; and some evangelists; and some pastors and teachers; Eph 4:12 with a view to the perfecting of the saints for the work of the ministry, for the building up of the body of Christ, Eph 4:13 until we all may come to the unity of the faith and of the full knowledge of the Son of God, to a full-grown man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ, Eph 4:14 so that we may no longer be infants, being blown and carried about by every wind of doctrine, in the sleight of men, in craftiness to the deceit of error, Eph 4:15 but speaking the truth in love, we may grow up into Him in all things, who is the Head, the Christ, Eph 4:16 from whom all the body, having been fitted and compacted together through every assisting bond, according to the effectual working of one measure in each part, produces the growth of the body to the building up of itself in love. This is in STARK constrast to Galatians 5 where Paul distinctly points to: Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are clearly revealed, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lustfulness, Gal 5:20 idolatry, sorcery, enmities, fightings, jealousies, angers, rivalries, divisions, heresies, Gal 5:21 envyings, murders, drunkenness, revelings, and things like these; of which I tell you beforehand, as I also said before, that the ones practicing such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. We are not "free to disagree" ... we are freed from disagreement by the indwelling of the Spirit of God (as we are given measure), Christ IN us until we reach unity (growing in His Mind in us), having laid aside our own thinking for His. THE SOURCE of divisions among us are NOT coming from His Mind in us, but from our minds, which are controlled by and enslaved to the lusts of OUR flesh (you and I and others). Either we BOTH have the Mind of Christ in matters, and therefore agreement and unity -OR- One of us or BOTH of us HAVE NOT the Mind of Christ, but our own mind enslaved to our flesh - HENCE - disagreement, division, enmitiy, fighting, jealousy, anger, rivalries and heresies. Heresy is NOT born of His Mind, but of OURS (yours and mine). We are NOT free to disagree. The fact that we disagree says someone or all have NOT His Mind but lust enslaved. SO -- decide. Choose. Pick. Examine yourself. Examine me. Prove. Rebuke. Exhort. Encourage. Above all seek the Mind of Christ and the Spirit of God to follow after instead of our own. Each of us do these things while remaining meek (teachable), loving, kind, NOT rude, but firm and grounded in the Mind of Christ. Speak with boldness, but not with anger. Remain respectful and mindful of the choices of others and their own capacity to see or not (having His mind or no). Nevertheless, disagreements are not good, not of God and not in our best interest or well-being.

Hi Zoe -- It is actually worse than just dishonoring and displeasing to God the Father. It is an open display of lust and flesh rather than Spirit. Jas 4:1 From where do wars and fightings among you come? Is it not from this, from your lusts warring in your members? Again -- Gal 5:15 But if you bite and devour one another, be careful that you are not consumed by one another. Gal 5:16 But I say, Walk in the Spirit, and you will not fulfill the lust of the flesh. Again -- Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are clearly revealed, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lustfulness, Gal 5:20 idolatry, sorcery, enmities, fightings, jealousies, angers, rivalries, divisions, heresies, Gal 5:21 envyings, murders, drunkenness, revelings, and things like these; of which I tell you beforehand, as I also said before, that the ones practicing such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. I will write this now, so my point and intent are clear: I am NOT saying people are "unsaved", but are in a dangerous place before the Lord. In Galatians, Paul makes a very bold statement. He has clarity to be very bold. I do not have his clarity, yet. He (Paul) clearly says, "... the ones practicing such thing will NOT inherit the kingdom of God." -- PERIOD. The word practicing is a clarifying word. It points towards a lifestyle and regular inclination or disposition. This is why the word we see translated into English as "Spirit" is actually "Mental Disposition". What God is after is offering us a new mental disposition (His Own). Thus -- people who are practicing, living out and have a lifestyle, modus-operandi, bent, inclination and disposition towards things like what are listed in the Galatians 5:19-21 are NOT operating from the Mind of Christ, but from their own enslaved mind and bound to the lusts of their own flesh. If I do such a thing, then I am NOT operating from the Mind of Christ, but from my enslaved mind to the lusts of my own flesh. None of us are above this. So, the warning goes out. Anyone reading the Word of God, anyone reading these words -- check yourself, be aware of your own self, see where you are, examine yourself to see of and from what mind you are working? Are you patterning your actions, words, deeds and writing from the Mind of Christ, the Spirit of God -OR- your own enslaved devilish, fleshly, lust-filled and lust-enslaved mind, thoughts and emotions? ONLY YOU can determine this for yourself. We can help. We can offer counsel and insight and hear from God for you to some degree -BUT- ultimately, you are responsible before God for your own self and will answer and give account. This is serious business. This is NOT trivial or trite. This is deadly serious business. Eternity hangs in the balance for each of us concerning these matters. I sincerely pray each of us maintains a mental attitude and awareness of our state before the Lord Jesus Christ at ALL times. If we waver and fall in a fault, then I pray that we all help to restore each other from where we fall to an upright place before the Lord. I pray we are each willing to repent: turn from walking in a mind enslaved to the lusts of our flesh and back to walking from the Spirit (Mind) of Christ in us, if so the Spirit is indwelling us. If NOT, then I pray each of us to be indwelt as it is our ONLY hope in this life. God help us all!

I read the words to the hymn and here's my two cents worth: A country or nation worth standing for, fighting for and dying for is one that promotes the eternal Kingdom of God. Tyranny is worthy to stand against: be it national tyranny, personal or something in between. Only a "We the People" (nation) founded in Christ will ultimately rise above tyranny. The fall towards tyranny is a nation where "We the People" and their government are slipping from Christ; who obey the Lord more in lipservice and less in reality. Therefore, pledge your allegiance then only to a nation where We the People truly know the grace and gospel of Christ. No one can tell you when tyranny has risen to where allegiance falls. It reminds me of the saying: "I cannot define obscene, but I know it when I see it." Likewise, I do now know precisely what level of tyranny betrays allegiance, but like obscenity -- I will know it when I see it. If we see it together -- perhaps there is yet hope. Until then -- stand firm in your faith and be ready to share the testimony of the Lord Jesus Christ formed in you, walk in service and suffering (be it in denying the flesh or in persecution). Sing to the Lord Jesus your undying allegiance to Him, pray for our nation and countrymen, hold firm to what is true and forgive, love and serve. I am joined with you as much as is in me to do so. Together, we'll do as the Lord wills and directs from day to day and moment to moment.

Jesus is quoting Psa 82. To understand it requires understanding scripture leading up to it. Joh 10:7 Then Jesus again said to them, Truly, truly, I say to you that I am the door of the sheep. Here, Jesus is pointing at His status: He is The Door for the sheep (an allegorical allusion to I am THE WAY). There are sheep and goats. The sheep are the Elect, those being and who will be saved in the final judgement. The goats are those who will not be saved on the final Day of the Lord. Jesus says it Himself: Joh 10:9 I am the door. If anyone enters through Me, he will be saved, and will go in, and will go out, and will find pasture. The opposite is: "If anyone FAILS to enter through Me, will NOT be saved, and will NOT go in, and will NOT go out, and will NOT find pasture." Again, He says: Joh 10:11 I am the Good Shepherd! The Good Shepherd lays down His life on behalf of the sheep. So, Jesus is A) The Door of the Sheep (-vs- thieves and robbers) and B) The Good Shepherd (-vs- hirlings). Then, the Lord splits Jews and Gentiles (remember He is speaking strictly here to an audience of Jews): Joh 10:16 And I have other sheep which are not of this fold. I must also lead those, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock, one Shepherd. Jesus is foretelling the engrafting of the Gentiles into His Word, His offer of Salvation to ALL, where the distinction of Jew and Gentile is erased and all are one with Him, with the Father, with the Spirit. Remember, in the eyes of the Jews, the Gentiles were lost unless they converted to being a Jew. What they really meant was, "convert to THIER Jewish traditions" Jesus flatly rejects a "Jew outwardly" and points to one "inwardly" (circumcision of the heart by the Spirit of God in us). Thus, Jesus is telling the truth: He's pointing out how Jews and Gentiles will be grafted together to ONE people, ONE flock, with ONE Shepherd, and so on. Also note: This is a flat denial of the Mormon nonsense. This is not about lost tribes and other stupidity that Mormons and others try to stick in here. Now comes the reaction of the Jews to what Jesus has said so far: Joh 10:19 Then a division occurred again among the Jews, because of these words. The Jews were divided because Jesus alluded to His stature -- equality with God. A little later on, they corner Him in a more "formal" setting: Joh 10:23 And Jesus was walking in the temple, in Solomon's Porch. Of course, this is not an accident. It is here, the Jews confront Jesus again with a very specific question and accusation. Note: It is not simply a question, but an accusation. Jesus is not just answering a question, but putting up evidence to support an assertion about Himself: I AM. Joh 10:24 Then the Jews encircled Him and said to Him, How long do you make us doubt? If you are the Christ, tell us plainly. The Jews want a direct answer. Jesus answers: Joh 10:25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and you did not believe. The works which I do in the name of My Father, these bear witness about Me. First -- I told you, and you did not believe. Second -- The works witness about Me. Third -- Joh 10:26 But you do not believe for you are not of My sheep, as I said to you. Bingo -- His sheep hear His voice. The word "hear" is understand and respond in obedience and integrity. The Jews are not there to respond with obedience, but to further establish their own power and control: to feed the lusts of their flesh with their thoughts, traditions and ways. They are living their own minds, own thoughts and own emotions for the purpose of feeding their flesh. Jesus knows this because of how they respond (accusation, division, contentions -- works of the flesh). Thus, these questioning Him are NOT His sheep. Hold on to that thought. Joh 10:28 And I give eternal life to them, and they shall not perish to the age, never! And not anyone shall pluck them out of My hand. Joh 10:29 My Father who has given them to Me is greater than all, and no one is able to pluck out of My Father's hand. Joh 10:30 I and the Father are One! POW! Right in the kisser! Jesus makes grand distinction between Himself and the Jews. You see, the Jews held themselves in moral equality with God because of their religious traditions and beliefs. Jesus, on the other hand, went a step above and equated Himself with God the Father directly and said, "I AM." The response of the Jews says how they clearly understand this: Joh 10:31 Then again the Jews took up stones, that they might stone Him. Joh 10:32 Jesus answered them, I showed you many good works from My Father. For which work of them do you stone Me? Joh 10:33 The Jews answered Him, saying, We do not stone You concerning a good work, but concerning blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself God. Take very special care and note of the last sentence: Here is the accusation I wrote of above: "You, being a man, make Yourself God." See the accusation: "... make Yourself God." The question is this: Does He A) make Himself God -OR- B) Claim equality with God? (I AM)??? Jesus NEVER claims A), but plainly states B) I AM. So, what makes this an important distinction?