deut31:12

Of course all sin is forgivable and God wills that all men come to repentance, but a reprobate mind is one that is rejected; condemned; disapproved. There does come a time in our lives where our minds can be seared with a hot iron and/or minds reprobate to where we cannot repent anymore. With the flesh we serve sin and with the mind the will of God. If our consciences are seared and our minds are reprobate they can no longer serve God. To understand what it is to "Blaspheme the Holy Spirit" go back to see why Jesus made that statement. But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation: Because they said, He hath an unclean spirit. - Mark 3:29-30 This is your answer. They accused Jesus of having an unclean spirit when it was through the Holy Spirit that Jesus did these miracles. We cannot blaspheme against the Holy Spirit today because Jesus is not walking the earth today doing miracles.

Verses 5 is speaking basically of man-pleasing. Many people deny Jesus in their actions before others and don't live their Christianity correctly out of fear of castigation. We should not fear what people think of us as being Christians. We should fear what God can do to us if we do NOT live as Christians. Verse 7 is speaking of fear as in not fretting. We shouldn't be afraid of doing without as long as we are Christians. God will provide for us.

There are many people who reject the notion of God and all that he stands for with the life that he requires us to live. They are called, "lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God". Even though God wills all man to repentance we can still see that by scripture that he dislikes those who choose sin over Christianity. From the beginning of time until today we see that God displays his anger towards the unrighteous. He killed 23,000 in one day for fornication and 14,000 for murmuring. In Revelation he killed 1/3 part of the earth to cause men to repent, but they did not. Christians were sinners at one time, but God sees the heart and knows who will repent and who will not. Those who don't stand a good chance at his wrath. This is the type of hate they are speaking of.

I'm done here. I have repeatedly proven that We are bound to our spouses by law until death, but if our marriage does happen to end up in a divorce, Jesus states that the only way that we can lawfully remarry is if the divorce was for the cause of fornication. When Jesus said "except for fornication" he left that as the only means that we can lawfully remarry if divorced. By saying that we are legal to remarry if our divorce was because of any other immoral atrocities is adding to what Jesus said. Jesus is not a monster in this judgment. When we try to add our own understanding to his judgments then we can make his exact judgments monsterous. Unless you can prove by scripture anywhere in the New Testament where Jesus said that the exception is anything more than fornication then there is nothing else to say.

You have the first two right, but you are adding the third by your own understanding without and scriptural proof. Jesus uses the word "except" and applies it to "fornication" and nothing else. You are adding what you think to the what Jesus said. That is your whole problem in your understanding. You are not stopping at fornication because you are adding to what Jesus said. Things do happen in marriage no matter how morbid. Nobody is saying that anybody has to stay with anybody that is abusive, but we do have to live by and accept our judgments by what Jesus did tell us and not by what we think he said or meant. When you do that you are adding to the words of Christ. Anybody can get divorced for any reason they choose, but scripture tells us that they only way anybody can get remarried is if the divorce for the reason of fornication like Jesus says. The word "exception" was used to show that the only lawful way to be remarried to another is if I put away my spouse for fornication and that is it. It is nonsense to you because you don't want to accept it. Anybody can do that. I have stuck with scripture that you keep adding to. Through scripture Jesus shows us that if we divorce and get remarried we are in adultery if that divorce was not for the cause of fornication. But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery. - Matthew 5:32 And he saith unto them, Whosoever shall put away his wife, and marry another, committeth adultery against her. And if a woman shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery. - Mark 10:11-12 These scriptures speak for themselves. Even the one listed here in mark doesn't even mention about committing fornication, so if we went by just that one then anybody who ever gets divorced and remarries is in adultery, but Jesus did say that if the divorce is because your spouse cheated on you then you lawfully can remarry. We don't have to remarry and it is not commanded to remarry. Again, that is you problem. There are no scriptures in the New Testament that modifies Jesus' judgment. I don't believe that Jesus was in error, but with your additions to what Jesus was saying is putting it in error. We can't use the Old Testament to modify what Jesus said because in the gospels Jesus took away those reasons for lawful remarriage by stating that the only way remarriage is allowed is if the divorce was for the cause of fornication. Again, this is your understanding trying to superceed Jesus' judgment. Nobody said anybody had to stay in a bad marriage. Jesus just said that the only way remarriage could happen is if the divorce was for the cause of fornication. There is only one exception in the New Testament for lawful remarriage. It is always interesting to see the extreme examples us to prove a point. Again, your judgment and view on this subject is what you think it should be and applying that to the mind of Christ where scripture doesn't. You are refusing to accept the phrase that Jesus said, "Except fornication" and add what you think that should have been saying. That phrase rules everything else out or it too would have been added. If it is in New Testament that we can remarry for any other reason outside of this then please give me a scripture.

According to your understanding, even if someone was married and divorced 5 times they are still bound by the law to each other until they die. So, if I leave my spouse, for fornication, neglect, and/or abuse, and marry another I am still bound by law to them if they are still alive according to your understanding. The way it was intended is that we are bound to each other by law until death, but if my spouse is cheating on me then I am lawfully able to divorce them and remarry another. Outside of this, if we divorce for any other reason neither of of are lawfully able to remarry others or we commit adultery. Paul and Jesus' judgments don't cancel each other out. Put in proper perspective they both exist together. This is why Jesus used the word "Except". It is the only exception we have to remarry outside of the death of my spouse. Other than that we are bound until death.

Here is a good example. Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled; Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright. For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears. - Hebrews 12:15-17

I can never tell when people are simply being sarcastic or serious If it is UNTIL DEATH, poster, then it CANNOT be broken by ANYTHING short of death. You seem to think that 'BOUND BY LAW until DEATH' means something OTHER than what it does. An interesting point tho, that Ive been trying to make here, and thank you for PROVING that point, btw....is that 'bound by law until death' IS stated as an absolute by Paul. And yet there IS MORE to the story, isnt there More data that makes us KNOW that 'BOUND BY LAW UNTIL DEATH' isnt the WHOLE story...thank you again for proving this point And there is MORE to the story than 'except for fornication'....the point is the very same. Jesus in NO wise meant to say that we can DIVORCE if our spouse slips and sins with someone else...but we are BOUND to them forever if they only hack off a limb or two. You have simply not understood what our Lord Jesus was dealing with and what His WHOLE point was. If there is nothing that can break that bond until death, as per your understanding, then everybody that has been divorced and remarried are still married to their first spouses. The woman answered and said, I have no husband. Jesus said unto her, Thou hast well said, I have no husband: For thou hast had five husbands; and he whom thou now hast is not thy husband: in that saidst thou truly. - John 4:17-18 How can this woman have five husbands? Does she have a harem? No, more than likely she has been married and divorced 5 times. The way that scripture has it set up is that we leave mother and father to cleave to our spouse to be one flesh. We are bound by the laws of marriage till death do us part, but if my spouse dies cheats on me I have the ability to break that bond to put them away for the infidelity. It is my choice. It has been made understood correctly that divorce is not a sin. God may hate it, but there is no direct commandment not to divorce. There are many reasons for divorce. One was given in 1 Corinthians 7. As far as remarriage, if one that has put away their spouse wants to be remarried to anybody else then the only way it is lawful is if I originally had put away my spouse for fornication as per the words of Jesus, "except for the cause of fornication". If I put away my spouse away for any other reason, such as abuse or neglect, and remarry another I commit adultery because I am still bound to my spouse. They are not dead and they were not put away for the cause of fornication. It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement: But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery. Matthew 5:31-32 This is NOT a "pet" scripture. There are various scriptures that speak on this subject and at three of them mention that we cannot remarry unless the putting away was for them committing fornication. You can divorce if you need to, but if my divorce was not for my spouse committing fornication against me or if they are still alive then I am still bound by the law to them.

I agree. Some read it and find a few passages they want to push as absolute while others look at others and do the same. You want to push the exceptions as absolute and another poster in this very thread wants to push 'bound by law until death' as absolute. The rest of us want to 'rightly divide' the word of truth to see if EITHER of these cases is as absolute as you folks claim. After so many hours in the matter, I personaly dont find that those pushing either of these AS absolute have understood either of them. And I say that when we choose to reject the absolute statement that she is BOUND BY LAW UNTIL DEATH of her husband that we are ADDING our own understanding..as you are I don't reject either. They are both the absolutes that were given to us. We are bound by the of marriage until death, but Jesus also said that law can be broken with infidelity.

Jesus' only exception in scripture was for the cause of fornication. AND Jesus also says NO SIGN would be given to that generation in Mark 8:11-13. WAS Jesus LYING there or not poster ? You keep going to your pet passages to back your claims but they do not present the WHOLE of the truth in this matter..not in the least. Jesus was dealing with a specific situation there in the gospels...as was Paul in 1 Cor 7....this MUST be taken into account when trying to understand what is being said otherwise we may as well say that Jesus is a liar in either Mark or Matthew when in one case He says NO SIGN would be given and in the other He shows that a sign WOULD be given. There is MORE to this MDR thing than the passages YOU personally want to acknowledge, poster..that is the point. You CANNOT allow for remarriage after divorce for adultery if we are going to be legalists because PAUL, Jesus' chosen apostle, says very clearly that marriage is UNTIL DEATH, not adultery. You are creating an argument that doesn't exist. They aren't even talking about this subject in this particular chapter. The Old Testament was full of signs from God, but when they during the time of Christ started looking for signs this is what Jesus told them. Then certain of the scribes and of the Pharisees answered, saying, Master, we would see a sign from thee. But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas: - Matthew 12:38-39 After the manner of signs that you are looking for, this is the only one that Jesus gave. Then said Jesus unto him, Except ye see signs and wonders, ye will not believe. - John 4:48 Is this your understanding on how you deal with the gospel of Christ?

Please poster....after THOUSANDS of hours in the study of this issue, I ASSURE you Ive read and understood that passage HUNDREDS of times at this point. Stop acting like you are the only one here who reads the material. A lot of people read it, but not everybody accepts it. When we choose to add anything other than "except for fornication" in this equation then we are adding our won understanding to God's word.

But where in scripture does it say that abandonment is also a justifier for lawful remarriage? Jesus' only exception in scripture was for the cause of fornication. Nobody is saying that anybody should stay in an abusive relationship, but we still have to obey scripture and it says that if we put away our spouse and marry another we commit adultery. And he saith unto them, Whosoever shall put away his wife, and marry another, committeth adultery against her. And if a woman shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery. - Mark 10:11-12 The words abuse or neglect are nowhere found to be qualifiers to lawfully remarry. Jesus gave only the exception of fornication. Paul gives us in 1 Corinthians that if we do put away our spouse then we are either to reconcile or remain unmarried. So, if a woman puts away her husband because he is neglectful or abusive then either they reconcile and work it out or remain unmarried.

This excuse is almost always given to justify correct exegesis of scripture. You have to take what Jesus wrote and what Paul wrote. Use your own understanding in this. The only two things that will release us out of marriage and be able to lawfully remarry is if my spouse is cheating on me or if my spouse has passed away. If you take the whole account as the whole you will have a clear understanding of what Jesus is saying. The Pharisees also came unto him, tempting him, and saying unto him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife for every cause? - Matthew 19:3 The Pharisees started with this question of being able to divorce to every cause. According to today's understanding and belief's the answer is "yes", but Jesus goes on to give the correct understanding of this. And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh? Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder. - Matthew 19:4-6 From the beginning of time divorce was not supposed to happen, but the Pharisees go on to ask more. They say unto him, Why did Moses then command to give a writing of divorcement, and to put her away? - Matthew 19:7 Jesus answers them again and puts marriage/divorce/remarriage right back the way it should have been from the beginning BEFORE Moses allowed the divorce for any cause. And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery. - Matthew 19:9 This same is reiterated in the book of Luke. In 1 Corinthians 7:39 the wife may be bound to her husband as long as he lives, but Jesus did say that if one of them cheats on the other the bond may be undone. Remember, "Except for fornication" is Jesus' own words. And unto the married I command, yet not I, but the Lord, Let not the wife depart from her husband: But and if she depart, let her remain unmarried, or be reconciled to her husband: and let not the husband put away his wife. - 1 Corinthians 7:10-11 If it comes to a time that one must leave the marriage due to abuse or neglect, they can, but they are to remain to be unmarried or reconcile. When we remain unmarried we are eunuchs for the cause of Christ.

When the traditional doctrine of divorce is exposed for the religious mindset that it is and we become loosed from its bondage, it typically feels like what you have described. Which is one reason many resist the undermining of this traditional doctrine. Here's the bottom line: A marriage begins when we covenant with each other making vows before the Lord. These vows from OT days until now have remained remarkably consistant. They are, in their simplest form, to feed, clothe, and love each other faithfully. If one partner breaks a covenant vow and repents, the wronged partner must forgive. But if someone hardheartedly and unrepentantly continues to violate the vows of the covenant, then the wronged partner has the right, if they chose, to except that the covenant is broken, the marriage is dead and get a divorce which is the death certificate of the marriage. The marriage was killed by the sin of broken marriage vows. The grounds for divorce which emanate from the marraige vows are sexual immoratlity, neglect, and abuse. These were the accepted grounds in all of first century Judaism. Jesus overtly upheld the sexual immorality ground in His debate with the Pharisees over the interpretation of Deut 24:1 (Matt 19:3-9) and it can be argued that He gave tacit approval to the neglect and abuse grounds because He never mentions them one way or another and Paul relied upon them for his council in I Cor 7. God never intended for someone to be held in bondage and misery in a relationship with an unrepentant covenant breaker. The Lord Himself set the example when He gave Isreal a bill of divorce for the hardhearted and unrepentant breaking of their marriage covenant. Greg. He did not give silent approval to divorce for the causes of neglect or abuse. That is being read and justified into this for an allowance that Jesus never gave. And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery. - Matthew 19:9 This is the only reason that Jesus is giving us for the cause to divorce. This says that if I put away my wife and marry another that I commit adultery and whoever marries my wife also commits adultery, unless the divorce was for the reason of fornication. You are right that God never intended anybody to live in a bad relationship. As has been said before, Paul does stipulate that we can walk away from a marriage. That is why Jesus continued with these next verses. His disciples say unto him, If the case of the man be so with his wife, it is not good to marry. But he said unto them, All men cannot receive this saying, save they to whom it is given. For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother's womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it. - Matthew 19:10-12 If I have an abusive spouse I can walk away, but if fornication was not the factor for the divorce then I cannot remarry lawfully in the sight of God. If we do get divorced for any other reason than infidelity and opt to stay unmarried, then we are eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. The question is though, can we receive this that we cannot remarry, as Jesus says, if the putting away was not for the reason of fornication?

What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh. - 1 Corinthians 6:16 This is the reason why fornication and adultery are forbidden. The coming together of man and woman is what creates that bond and consummates marriage. This is why it is written in Genesis and why Jesus reminded us of it, that when man and woman come together they are one flesh, but if we decide to live in fornication then I am bonding myself with everybody that I lay down with. If I commit adultery while married then I am bonding myself to whomever I lay down with. This union was never intended outside of marriage since the beginning of time, was only lawful with whom I am married to, and even though the Israelites dealt with it the way that they did Jesus put it back to the way that is supposed to be done. Just because we see examples in the Old Testament that are contrary to what Jesus is now telling us does not give us permission to disregard what he has now commanded us to do.

Actually the bible says no such thing, especially not in the cited passage. Jesus assigning a 'sin' to frivolous divorce to remarry where none had been previously assigned by the law of Moses does not in any way imply any 'ongoing state' of adultery in this new marriage. Actually the bible is saying this exactly, but many people don't want to see it that way. Jesus is putting it back the way it was since the time of Adam and Eve where they were one flesh. In marriage we become one flesh in the sight of God and no man can put that asunder, but God did allow that bond to be lifted through death of our spouse or if the cheat on us. Outside of that, if I divorce my spouse and remarry another I am living in the sin of adultery. It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement: But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery. - Matthew 5:31-32 This is not speaking of "frivolous divorce to remarry", it is giving us the judgment of MDR. If people need to get divorced then let it be, but the only reason that Jesus is giving us to be lawfully remarried is by either death of our spouse or if our spouse has committed adultery. And he saith unto them, Whosoever shall put away his wife, and marry another, committeth adultery against her. And if a woman shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery. - Mark 10:11-12 It doesn't say they divorced for the purpose to remarry. It says that they remarried after they were divorced for any reason besides infidelity. So, if I divorce my spouse based upon irreconcilable differences, we couldn't get along anymore, was a drunk, etc. and remarried another then I am living in adultery. If somebody remarries my spouse they also are in adultery.

The bible says that if I am married, commit adultery, divorce and remarry that I am still living in adultery with who I remarry. But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery. - Matthew 5:32 I don't think that God blesses marriages, but he does recognize them as being legit or not. God would rather we be married than living in fornication. If they marry then they did the right thing, but as long as it is according to scripture. But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn. - 1 Corinthians 7:9

Who were the spirits in prison that Jesus freed upon his descent into Hades (1 Peter 3)? The spirits in prison are people who are still prisoner to their sins. For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; - 1 Peter 3:18-19 The purpose of the work of Jesus was to die for our sins that he might bring us to God. He was put to death in the flesh, but was quickened by the Holy Spirit. By way of the Holy Spirit he went and preached to the spirits that were in prison. Before we become Christians we are basically prisoners of our own sins and are made free through the salvation wrought through Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. - Romans 8:2

Deut31 must be a baptist...when you have 2 Baptist you have 5 opinions in the room Just joking with you Deut31...thanks for your response (s) I'm sorry. I go for more than one reason and they are all as equally important to me. Yep, must be a Baptist No I am not baptist.

Deut31 must be a baptist...when you have 2 Baptist you have 5 opinions in the room Just joking with you Deut31...thanks for your response (s) I'm sorry. I go for more than one reason and they are all as equally important to me.

I voted for 3 of them.

This is very good Pilgram7. It shows that we even though we are Christians we still have a responsibility as debtors.

I was part of a Pentecostal church and I will say that what they were doing was not the gifts that we see in the bible. Tongues were used to teach others of another nationality so they could understand the gospel. Other miracles we used to help convert the unbelievers that Salvation was only through God. Remember, there was a lot of idol worship amongst the Gentiles. As far as the poison, we see an example of what happened to Paul. "And when Paul had gathered a bundle of sticks, and laid them on the fire, there came a viper out of the heat, and fastened on his hand. And when the barbarians saw the venomous beast hang on his hand, they said among themselves, No doubt this man is a murderer, whom, though he hath escaped the sea, yet vengeance suffereth not to live. And he shook off the beast into the fire, and felt no harm. Howbeit they looked when he should have swollen, or fallen down dead suddenly: but after they had looked a great while, and saw no harm come to him, they changed their minds, and said that he was a god." Acts 28:3-6 These signs and wonders were for the purpose of converting the lost.

I Corinthians 7:12-14 I think this is speaking of a couple that is already married and one becomes a Christian and the other one doesn't. We are told only to marry in the Lord because what happened to Solomon could happen to us if we marry a non-Christian. There is a good chance they could take our hearts away from God. The best thing to do is to teach on it and leave it in their laps to decide. It is God who they will have to answer to in the end if the Christian allows the un-believer to take them away. Being unequally yoked together with unbelievers also applies in choosing who to marry.