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Hawkeye

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    Child loss in the Bible

    in General Discussion

    Posted

    12 hours ago, Omegaman 3.0 said:

    How about baby Moses, does that count? She lost him by setting him in the river in a basket, but she was not separated from him,, just lost the custody and status of being "mom"?

    I have added it to the list. She did give him up and she would have dealt with that loss and grief I am sure.

    Child loss in the Bible

    in General Discussion

    Posted · Edited by Hawkeye
    Added

    Hi Everyone

    I am working on a project. What are some losses of a child in the Bible? It can be through death such as David, or through other means such as Joseph being sold into slavery or the prodigal son leaving home or even having to give up their child in the case of Moses. Adult or Child. Here is what I have so far. Thanks for any input.

    I know @Omegaman 3.0 and @George and @watchman would know some.

    OLD TESTAMENT

     

    Eve (Genesis 4:1-16)- Cain killed her son Abel

    Hagar (Genesis 6:1-17) Forced surrogacy, unable to keep the child

    Judah (Genesis 46:12) God killed his son they were wicked

    Jacob (Genesis 37::18-36) Lost his son Joseph

    Yochoved (Baby Moses) (Exodus 2:-10) Had to give her child up

    Passover (Exodus 13:2) God instructed that the first-born male be killed

    Aaron (Leviticus 10) His sons Abihu and Nadab

    Naomi (Ruth 1:3-18) Lost both of her sons

    Eli (1 Samuel 4) Hophni & Phineas

    Samuel (Samuel 9) Lost his sons Abijah and Joel

    David (2 Samuel 12:14-31) His son died, and David lamented.

    David- Absolem (2 Samuel 18) His other son died as well

    Rizpah- (2 Samuel 21:14) Concunbine of Saul, witnessed her two sons executed

    Solomon (1 Kings 3:16-28) Rolled over on the baby

    Solomon (1 Kings 3:16-28) Threatened to cut the baby in half

    Shunamite’s Son (2 Kings 4:20-37) Her son died

    Job (Job 1:13-22) Job lost his family (including his kids)

    Bethel (Hosea 10:14-15) Told if she had children God would kill them

     

     

    NEW TESTAMENT

    Birth of Jesus (Matthew 2:16) First-born ordered to be killed by Herod.

    Death of Jesus (Matthew 27:32-56) Mary’s son died

    Jairus’s Daughter (Luke 8:43-48) He grieved her loss, but she rose again

    Prodigal Son (Luke 15:11-32) The father lost his son

     

     

    • Thanks 1

    PHOTOS WE LIKE TO SHARE

    in Sports, Hobbies, Entertainment, and other interests

    Posted · Edited by Hawkeye

    On 6/13/2017 at 0:50 PM, kwikphilly said:

    Blessings Everyone!

       This is a photo sharing Thread,please no  cartoons or zany signage,lets keep it PERSONAL......things that you like,if its flowers,the sky,your pets,whatever you want to share just because "I love you"................Praise Jesus

    Well,I love to show off my little Graycie ...here she is ,really getting good at walking on the leash :emot-heartbeat:

    Bow.jpg

     

    Is Graycie a Russian Blue?????

    Mine are both Russian Blues. Sir Lancelot and Xena

    Image18.jpg

     

    • Loved it! 1

    Question for jehovah's witnesses

    in General Discussion

    Posted

    On 4/26/2017 at 8:07 PM, Ghostdog said:

    so if ur not saved u go to hell, then judgement day comes God pulls u out of hell, judges u and then throws u back in hell?

     One thing to understand is that the word "hell" has been (inaccurately) translated from 2 different Greek/Hebrew words. You have "Hades/Sheol (same thing), and you have Gehenna. 

    Hades/Sheol is simply "the grave or underworld". We see this in The Parable of The Rich man and Lazarus (which was not an actual event, mind you, it was a reiteration of a popular belief/fable of that time period).  Gehenna is what we see as the lake of fire mentioned in Revelation.

    Now Sheol/Hades being the grave or underworld, is more like a 'holding' area. I believe the individual will not be conscious, but in a type of suspended animation state (whether this is "sleep" or not, not sure). But there is definitely some consideration to be had for it. 

    Gehenna is the lake of fire mentioned at The Great White Throne.  The Bible is clear at the throne judgement there are 2 sets of books. The books (plural) of deeds, and the Lamb's book of life. It tells us the books of deeds are opened and judgement issued. However, if you name was found in the Lamb's book of life, you would receive eternal life (which is a gift for believers). Hope this helps explain it a bit for you. 

    Christian Conditionalism vs Traditionalism (Rethinking Hell)

    in Theology

    Posted

    2 minutes ago, Retrobyter said:

    Shalom, Hawkeye.

    My intent was to show that a proper interpretation of "soul" and "spirit" will correct the thinking of many on this thread.

    For instance, "the souls of the martyrs who were beheaded" were ALREADY resurrected! They were "SOULS" - "AIR-BREATHERS!" They weren't in "heaven" under the altar, they were before the PHYSICAL altar of the rebuilt Temple. Since people used this passage as a proof text, they must re-think their positions based on this information.

    There is no "Heaven" as people often think of it. There IS, however, a New Jerusalem that will land upon the New Earth with its New Sky. In light of this information, some should re-think their positions.

    Hawkeye, you said,

    There are several things that are wrong with these two views versus the way that Scripture presents these topics.

    First, "hell" is the wrong word. Three Greek words were translated as "hell" and NONE of them is the "Lake of Fire and Brimstone" or the "Lake of Burning Sulfur."

    These three Greek words are "hadees" or "hades" which means the "unseen," used as we would use the words "the unknown"; "ge-enna" or "gehenna," the "Valley of Hinnom" outside Jerusalem where the trash was burned and where the judgment seat of the kings were set up to judge evildoers and sentence them to death; and "tartaro-oo," a verb meaning to "incarcerate in Tartaros," the lowest prison in the Greek-mythological place of "Hades."

    Second, "heaven" is the wrong word. There are five words that were translated as "heaven," "heavens," or "heavenly," and they were "epouranios," "mesouraneema," "ouranothen," "ouranios," and "ouranos," whose plural is "ouranoi." NONE of these words have to do with our final destination - our home - the New Earth with its New Sky and the New Jerusalem that will land there. "Ouranos" is the foundation word for the other four:

    NT:3772 ouranos (oo-ran-os'); perhaps from the same as NT:3735 (through the idea of elevation); the sky; by extension, heaven (as the abode of God); by implication, happiness, power, eternity; specifically, the Gospel (Christianity):
    KJV - air, heaven ([-ly]), sky.

    (Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright © 1994, 2003, 2006 Biblesoft, Inc. and International Bible Translators, Inc.)

    ep-ouran-ios = above-the-sky-of-or-related-to (adjective)
    mes-ouran-eema = middle-of-the-sky-position (noun)
    ouran-ios = the-sky-of-or-related-to (adjective)
    ourano-then = the-sky-from (focusing on the source)

    NT:2032 epouranios (ep-oo-ran'-ee-os); from NT:1909 and NT:3772; above the sky:
    KJV - celestial, (in) heaven (-ly), high.

    NT:3321 mesouraneema (mes-oo-ran'-ay-mah); from a presumed compound of NT:3319 and NT:3772; mid-sky:
    KJV - midst of heaven.

    NT:3770 ouranios (oo-ran'-ee-os); from NT:3772; celestial, i.e. belonging to or coming from the sky:
    KJV - heavenly.

    NT:3771 ouranothen (oo-ran-oth'-en); from NT:3772 and the enclitic of source; from the sky:
    KJV - from heaven.

    (Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright © 1994, 2003, 2006 Biblesoft, Inc. and International Bible Translators, Inc.)

    However, all the descriptions of "heaven" - the streets of gold, the pearly gates, the foundations made from gemstones, the foursquare city of gold, the river of the water of life, the tree of life - come from the descriptions of the New Jerusalem, not "heaven," in Revelation 21 and 22.

    Third, there's only one way that there is an "immortal soul," an "immortal air-breather," and that's through the RESURRECTION. However, Paul tells us in the Resurrection Chapter, 1 Cor. 15, that there's more than one general resurrection:

    1 Corinthians 15:20-28
    20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept
    21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
    22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
    23 But every man in his own order:  (0) Christ the firstfruits; afterward (1) they that are Christ's at his coming.
    24 Then (2) cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
    25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
    26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
    27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith, all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
    28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
    KJV

    There will be general resurrections (1) at Christ's coming (at the beginning of the Millennium) and (2) at the end of the age (at the end of the Millennium). Also, this passage doesn't talk about eternal torment. The issue here is the Son "subduing all of His enemies," putting them "under His feet."

    Revelation 20:1-15
    1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
    2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
    3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
    4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls (Greek: tas psuchas = "the air-breathers") of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
    5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
    6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

    7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
    8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
    9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
    10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
    11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
    12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
    13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
    14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
    15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
    KJV

    On the other hand, nowhere in this passage of Revelation 20 does it say that the dead, small and great, who are not found written in the book of life and were cast into the Lake of Fire were "to be tormented day and night for ever and ever," like the devil's fate.

    But, we DO have Yeshua`s words: 

    Matthew 25:41-46
    41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
    42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
    43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
    44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
    45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
    46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
    KJV

    There are other, more minor issues in what you said above, but they can be investigated another day.

    It is hard to tell from your posts, are you Pro or Anti Conditional immortality?

    Things only Christian women hear

    in General Discussion

    Posted

    Just now, Spock said:

    Ahhhh come on Hawkeye.  When a woman is wearing a low cut top with 50% exposure, or a short skirt way above the knees, that is just too much skin being exposed for the average man.  You know men are visual!  We usually don't lust when everything is covered up. My proof- a study was done somewhere showing 98% of all men don't lust after Islamic women wearing full length burkas. 

    So do us a favor, especially at church and dress NOT to kill!  Thank you.

     Men who just want to worship thank u 2! 

    Oh I dress very modestly.

    Christian Conditionalism vs Traditionalism (Rethinking Hell)

    in Theology

    Posted

    2 minutes ago, BobRyan said:

    Agreed. That movie "Hell and Mr. Fudge" is a great one. And you are right about hell at least in some respects.

    Matthew 10:28 says not to fear those who kill the body but are not able to kill the soul - rather fear Him who is able to destroy BOTH body AND soul in fiery hell.

    Revelation 20 tells us that the lake of fire event takes place after the 1000 year millennium - when the wicked are raised, judged and cast into that fiery hell.

    So then 1 Thess 4 tells us that mankind is dormant in death even though the spirit of all mankind goes to God at death - it is in a dormant state.

    1 Thess 4

    13 But we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve as do the rest who have no hope.14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus. 15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words. 

    The comfort Paul does not give here is "your loved one - the dead in Christ, those who have fallen asleep in Jesus... are with the Lord now they do not wait until the 2nd coming and resurrection to be with the Lord".

    And in Ezekiel 18:4 "The SOUL that sins will die" - but there is a literal hell -- John calls it the "lake of fire" and it will be real fire and brimstone - real torment. But at a certain point we have the Matthew 10:28 fact that BOTH body AND soul will be destroyed in it.

     

     

    Welcome to the CI crew ;)

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