georgesbluegirl

Agreed amor, I was actually about to bring up N. Ireland myself. PS: Leonard, Georgesbluegirl comes from a song from "Let It Be" called "For You, Blue" by George Harrison, my favorite Beatle, and it's just a cool little twelve-bar song that I like.

Well, there are all kinds of distinctions for variations of humankind along the evolutionary path. This is a rather unique discovery - it appears that although these small people had brains less than a third the size of ours, they managed to cross one or several bodies of water and develop methods of hunting and sustainable life. They outpunch us pound for pound, intellectually speaking. Plus they probably coexisted and interacted with other more "developed" forms of humanity. All in all, very cool.

The point is that not all terrorists are Muslims. See above.

The article appeared on the Department of Women's Ministries page, which is sponsored by the official site but is really a separate page. Apparently it was meant to "provoke discussion" and was NEVER meant to stand as Episcopal teaching.

Do your homework - this is a grassroots thing, a far cry from Episcopal teaching. Here's their statement...read up

I'm not claiming that the Scriptures are any less holy or miraculous because they ARE fallible - in fact, to me they are that much more amazing, another aspect of the Incarnation. They are God-breathed through MAN. And certainly their message, their power is not affected by the consideration that certain things must be placed in historical context.

Wow, such hostility. One brief comment about Catholic belief about the Bible: Super Jew, could you give me ideas of where you're getting the info that Catholicism claims the Bible is infallible? I've been taught - literally all my life, my mom worked at a seminary, so I grew up around religious discussion - that the Bible is the Word of God as translated through the lens of culture and language by men. I'm pretty sure that the Catechism says that too (of course, I paraphrase, its probably about forty pages long!!). Here's some writing from Fr. Raymond Brown who was awesome, one of the best known, prolific and brilliant of modern theologians, and who I studied in a theology class once, explaining the whole thing, I think it sums it up nicely. "The message of the Incarnation is that there is no way to avoid the interplay of the divine and the human in approaching God. Biblical literalism, since it makes all divine, supplies a false certitude that often unconsciously confuses the human limitation with the divine message. A literalist interpretation destroys the very nature of the Bible as a human expression of divine revelation. One must understand that only human beings speak words. Therefore the very valid description of the Bible as "God's word" has both the divine element ("God's") and the human ("word")." ***From the American Catholic.

Nobody ever realizes that the third-wave Christian doctrine of biblical infallibility is only about a century old. Sigh. Clearly, you know very little of the Church other than what you've probably been told all of your life. So please don't Catholic bash...just do your homework. PS: nowhere in our doctrine do we use "vicar of Christ" (vicar is a Prot term, anyway) and I can assure you, the Pope is not supposed to be Christ, just a leader who tries to live and lead by his example.

A cult? Hardly. Methodists, Catholics, Lutherans...those churches don't claim that the Bible is infallible, yet they are Christian. Look, the Bible is a tool for us, from God through the words of men (part of the Incarnation really, the words of man and the Word of God). Acknowledging that the Bible was written thousands of years ago with a thousand year old understanding of the earth does not detract from its meaning. In the Bible there are passages about burning fornicating priest's daughters, stoning people for any kind of sexual sin, etc and so forth. This is in almost direct contradiction of Christ's Gospel of Compassion. The messages, the stories of the Bible are all good - I believe in the Bible as our foundation. But it is blind to ignore the contributions of man, and the analysis and careful interpretation that must then be taken is important.

That is what you, believe. That is NOT what most Christian churches believe, and it is not what I believe.

I repeat my earlier question again...if one says that a "good Christian" should avoid all sinful literature, doesn't that then stifle the brains God gave us? Imagine what the world would be without literature, Shakespeare, Hemingway, Socrates...besides, often the things immediately tagged as "sinful" are there to teach us something about the story and/or characters, like the incest in One Hundred Years of Solitude. For example. As for my number reference...you spend enough time in high school, you begin to react every time those numbers pop up. Sigh. It just becomes habit after a while, I guess.

Ronald: Such hostility! Lighten up a little bit, you've got to realize that there are other people who believe differently than you do. I don't believe the Bible is infallible, but I also don't believe that that takes away from the meaning of the Bible as a whole. It just means we shouldn't necessarily use it as a scientific tool, or necessarily even as a historical tool...for example, it's generally accepted that Numbers skips generations when listing family histories (list specific instances if you want). Basically, it's not God who messes up...it's us. Other points: - nitpick: our calendar was set up wrong, so actually the true number since Jesus was born is different, but I can't remember if its more or less...not that it even matters - as for transitional bones...a) bones decompose over time and b) did anyone else hear about the newly discovered "hobbit" (aka 3 ft tall early human) of Flores? check the national geographic site...its really cool! Peace.

Absolutely none.

Actually, most churches acknowledge the earth is several billion years old, because most churches acknowledge that the Bible is not infallible, especially when it comes to matters of science. It is not a question - TaBiblia is right, it is a fact.

So we ignore great literature and thought if it contains things "sinful?"

So...does that mean that no one reads Shakespeare because he might have been gay? Or Walt Whitman? Should we not read Dylan Thomas because he was a drunk/pub-crawler? If we discounted everything having to do with this described "debauchery" then we've lost everything from Elton John to Edgar Allen Poe. No Chaucer (sex, drunkenness, homosexuality), no Marquez (incest, "witchcraft," promiscuity)...and God knows, no Grateful Dead. I mean, really. I guess now would be the time to mention that I don't QUITE put homosexuality in the same category as heroin usage. PS: Happy post #420, me!

Amen!

Have you actually READ it? Unless you've read the book...don't criticize. Besides, Life of Pi is one of my favorite books of all time, so the Booker people obviously know what's what.

Occasionally wonder about death - you know, those "what if everything I believe is wrong" moments where I imagine death as an ending. I read William Cullen Bryant's "Thanatopsis" once in this mood and it was immensely comforting. It makes death - even real, final death - beautiful. It's one of my favorite poems on the subject. "Earth, that nourished thee, shall claim Thy growth, to be resolved to earth again, And, lost each human trace, surrendering up Thine individual being, shalt thou go To mix for ever with the elements, To be a brother to the insensible rock..." "Yet not to thine eternal resting-place Shalt thous retire alone, nor couldst thou wish Couch more magnificent. Thou shalt lie down With patriarchs of the infant world - with kings, The powerful of the earth - the wise, the good, Fair forms, and hoary seers of ages past, All in one mighty sepulchre. The hills Rock-ribbed and ancient as the sun,-the vales Stretching in pensive quietness between; The venerable woods - rivers that move In majesty, and the complaining brooks That make the meadows green; and, poured round all Old Ocean's gray and melancholy waste, - Are but the solemn decorations all Of the great tomb of man." "...As the long trains Of ages glides away, the sons of men, The youth in life's fresh spring, and he who goes In the full strength of years, matron and maid, The speechless babe, and the gray-headed man - Shall one by one be gathered to thy side, By those, who in their turn shall follow them. So live, that when thy summons comes to join The innumerable caravan, which moves To that mysterious realm, where each shall take His chamber in the silent halls of death, Then go not, like the quarry-slave at night, Scourged to his dungeon, but, sustained and soothed By an unfaltering trust, approach thy grave, Like one who wraps the drapery of his couch About him, and lies down to pleasant dreams." Realize these excerpts are in every way a tangent...but the poem's been on my mind. Anyway, I like it.

Nah, I'm just being idealistic. Plus I do think Arafat is the wrong person to be dealing with, popular though he may be. He's not good for the Palestinian cause, and I think there are more and more Palestinians agreeing.

Good Lord...why can't they just give the West Bank and/or the Golan Heights over? Young people over there are sick of this - on both sides.

Cool. Sanctuary law is weird...I think it's only technically honored by governments at the Vatican anymore, but it used to be you could claim it on sacred ground anywhere, the "right of sanctuary." Guess you could still call it other places but I don't know if the government will respect it.

Hmm...I'm Catholic and I wouldn't have known (although I probably would have followed because I have an extremely developed sense of curiousity). Where did this story come from? I've never read anything about this custom and usually stuff like that is fondly written of. Oh, and I think you can still claim sanctuary in all churches...but maybe I'm not remembering that right.

Don't worry about me, I'm more than a little paranoid. The "fact" is that Iraq is not simply about an "evil dicatator" - no war is ever that simple, and this one is a far cry from straightforward.

The other funny part is that it's "nebula" posting this. Teehee.