stormy612

Leaving this church is good for you, and it can be good for the church, too. God has opened your eyes and you are no longer blind. If God wills it, once you have grown in His truth, you can return to the people there and be a part of God opening their eyes, too. Others may be watching you and will follow your example, too, thus lessening the hold these doctrines have on those who remain. Leaving is a very loving thing to do, just not an obvious loving thing to do.

No. I don't have a church, and no, I don't have a mentor. It's not for lack of trying though or desire. I've never had a teacher of any kind. If I wanted to know anything, I had to teach myself. God seems to want it that way for me, too. I studied with Him and just Him for two years, reading only the bible and letting His Holy Spirit interpret it. I'm now pushed away by other Christians at church, and in my daily life, because, and I quote, "you know more of the bible than I do." Except I don't. I can't quote any verse perfectly, I can't remember where anything is in the bible, I can't keep my prophets straight or the Kings, and I can never remember which disciple said what or in what book. I just read it, eat it, and let the Holy Spirit do His work. Jesus said the Holy Spirit would give us the words when we needed them, and in me, He's doing just that. I'd actually like to team up with a bible scholar so they can keep me from misquoting His word and can tell me instantly where to find what I'm talking about. I'm a loner and always have been. I don't know who or what I am in Christ, but God does. He's the only one I ask anymore. I've asked Him about joining and belonging. He told me I just need to be where He needs me to be when He needs me to be there. I asked Him about going to church and He told me I wasn't there to get fed, but to feed others. In other words, I'm HIS servant. HE is my Shepard. I don't run around claiming prophetic words for people. God is hard pressed to get me to open my mouth at all. I'd prefer to be liked by people, not looked at strangely or treated as a mental patient. I'd rather sit in the back listening to sermons, thinking deep thoughts, or have a rousing theological research and discussion session. I'd rather be invited to bible studies instead of being made to feel unwelcome at them. And I'd rather be comforting people with God's word instead of rousing up suspicion, envy or mockery. There's also what Isaiah said: Isaiah 6:5 Then said I, Woe is me! for I am undone; because I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips: for mine eyes have seen the King, the LORD of hosts. I can't say anything as God reveals it to me. Messages get lost in the translation. I'd rather God tell them Himself. Add to that this: Matthew 18:6 “If anyone causes one of these little ones—those who believe in me—to stumble, it would be better for them to have a large millstone hung around their neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea. Mark 9:42 “If anyone causes one of these little ones—those who believe in me—to stumble, it would be better for them if a large millstone were hung around their neck and they were thrown into the sea. Luke 17:2 It would be better for them to be thrown into the sea with a millstone tied around their neck than to cause one of these little ones to stumble. Who'd want anyone to stumble in their faith? And finally there's what God said He'd do to the false teachers and false prophets. There are far too many verses to list here, but everyone of them tempers my tongue. I'm a loner, but Jesus doesn't leave me alone.

I'm not sure about any specific timeline. He just wants us to not be alarmed at what we're seeing, and going to be seeing going on around us; and to remind each other of His presence in all of this, His control of it all, and His purpose for it all. The only other image He gave me was a scene. Its dark. On my right stands Christ and His army. Christ is in the first row, center, standing a head taller than everyone else. They stand in rows, swords drawn, but the blades down and their hands resting on the hilt. All heads are bowed and eyes are closed. Everyone is waiting. Jesus and the entire army are glowing white, a glow that emanates from within them. On my left, in the dark, lit only by the glow from Christ and His army, are mewling, dirty, disease ridden, boil covered, starving, Gollum-looking things squirming to get away from the Light.

Ezekiel suffered before Israel did. (Ezekiel 4) And I've always believed God never does anything without telling us first.

First, I'd like to correct a typo I now see I made-I went through my first oven 13 years ago, not 12. I only used the future tense because that's how He told me. He told me this 15 years ago, so it was in the future at the time, but even then, He didn't reveal to me when all this was to start so I assume that part isn't important to what He wants me to tell. He gave me this word two years before my first oven, and He spent two years preparing me for it. I didn't realize He was doing this at the time, but I am very glad He did because there is no way I could've survived it without Him and all that He taught me. I can only assume I went through my first oven when I did so I could experience it, be comforted by God through it, and now have that comfort and wisdom to give to others as they go through. People seem to be having a problem with the word "oven". Perhaps "furnace" would help in understanding more? God said 'oven' with me, so that's what I've said. 13 years ago, my husband was arrested and charged with 2 counts of aggravated child molestation and 2 counts of child molestation of my daughter, who was 5 at the time. On top of and in the midst of all that turmoil, I was under suspicion of knowing and allowing this to occur. I knew I was completely in the hands of God. He would do what He willed, but I did not know what that was. He would either reveal my innocence and I would continue on with my daughter or He would allow me to be sent to prison to do His work away from my daughter. I was brought to my knees and He asked me: Would I follow Him? If He hadn't taught me for two years previous, there is no way I could've said yes. I didn't face fear. I faced terror. I said yes, and I have not been the same since. No. I haven't gone through my second oven because in my weakness, I've balked at Him. I'm terrified of the next one. I will go through it though, and the others. He's Jesus and I love Him.

God told me there are going to be seven ovens, each one turned up seven times hotter than the previous. This is to purify His church. He is preparing those who come through for something that is coming. I don’t know what’s coming or when; I only know that it will require the kind of faith only ovens can create. I don’t have a specific biblical reference for this. He has given me some biblical confirmation through various verses but nothing specific pertaining to this particular word. There has also been some confirmation through other people having received the same word. I’ve also had personal confirmation of His word. I went through my first oven 12 years ago. I have found comfort in this. He isn’t picking on us and Satan isn’t getting the upper hand. Our struggles aren’t personal anymore-the whole church is suffering and this suffering is serving a real and single purpose for God. It isn't about my faith or your faith anymore-its about our faith in our God and Lord. There is something God needs us to do and He’s preparing us for that.

Would I start that thread here or in another place?

That would get their attention...although, I think I'll keep my clothes on and just use Ezekiel as an example if I get told I have to earn people's respect before they listen to God Thanks Other One! I'm not too worried about convincing people. I do trust God for that. He said those who have ears to hear will hear. It just leaves me sorrowful when I realize they haven't even listened because they are looking at me and not God. God's speaking to them and they're missing Him. When I say "listen" I don't mean they believe me. I mean they just take it in, take it to God, pray about it, research it, etc. I was prepared to be rejected. I've read enough of the prophets to have expected that, although its a lot worse in person (and I haven't been rejected anything like the prophets were.) I never expected God to be rejected though. I expected them to want scriptural verification (which is needed) and, of course, the fulfillment of His word, so I've done my best to prepare for that. It was such a shock then to be told I have to earn people's respect before they'll listen. I guess I'm just trying to understand why she brought me into it. It's not about respecting me. It's not about me at all. How do I take "me" out of the picture and keep me out? As for His actual word, I'd prefer to start another thread with that topic so it doesn't get confused with this one.

I was given a prophetic word by God about 15 years ago, when I was just a babe in Christ. When He first showed me, I kind of froze. He was sending me to the church with this word and I know full well what the church does with prophets. I decided to wait for God to back up His word with scripture. I knew it came from Him, but others would doubt (as they should), and I also knew I'd have to have scriptures at the ready to defend His word. I continued to wait for the Holy Spirit to give me scriptures but I've yet to be given even one that says exactly what He showed me, just bits and pieces of scriptures that do back it up, but could easily be argued against. I'm not a bible scholar nor a prophecy scholar;I just know what He showed me. I trust He'll give me His scriptures when the time comes. Plus, He's already begun to fulfill this prophecy in my life and I see it happening in the body as well. But, I have spoken about it a few times to individuals, and no one really seemed to listen. It didn't prick their hearts at all. It hasn't actually pricked anyone's heart to tell the truth. I've never once doubted God's word to me. If anything, people's lack of response only confirms His word, which saddens me greatly. The last person I spoke to about it responded with, "That's awfully frightening. I'm not sure that's from God." I told her to take it to God and ask Him to verify it. It's His word, and He'll confirm it. She then rejected His word outright and said, "If you want people to respect what you're saying, you need to get into a church, let people get to know you, then, when they respect you, they'll listen to what you're saying." I could only stand before her in shock: I didn't say it. God did. It's not for my benefit; it's for yours. He's warning you and you aren't listening. I didn't understand. Is this why people aren't hearing Him? The Holy Spirit said: Matthew 13:54-57 "Coming to his hometown, he began teaching the people in their synagogue, and they were amazed. “Where did this man get this wisdom and these miraculous powers?” they asked.“Isn’t this the carpenter’s son? Isn’t his mother’s name Mary, and aren’t his brothers James, Joseph, Simon and Judas?Aren’t all his sisters with us? Where then did this man get all these things?”And they took offense at him. But Jesus said to them, “A prophet is not without honor except in his own town and in his own home.” and John 5:43-44 "I have come in my Father’s name, and you do not accept me; but if someone else comes in his own name, you will accept him. How can you believe since you accept glory from one another but do not seek the glory that comes from the only God?" I want to share His word. He's sending it to prepare people and to comfort them. I expected to be challenged scripturally. I didn't expect this. How do I get people to stop seeing me and hear Christ instead?

I'm currently struggling with God in a similar fashion. God is in charge of everything-that's what being "sovereign" means. God could fix this man's situation instantly and He could fix mine as well (though mine is different in nature.) This man is upset and I can relate-so could Job. All three of us want to argue our case before God. Job did and got his answer-God is sovereign. When God answered my complaint, He gave me only part of the answer (the rest is coming). He told me that I had been believing Him for something He never promised in His word. I had been believing Him for something I'd been taught by mankind, not by His word. I'm still struggling, but now its with my flesh-not God. Ask your friend to lay out clearly what he believes God promised Him-be as specific as possible-then have him dig deep into God's word to see if God really did promise those things. And make sure he understands what God is saying-not what mankind says He's saying. We get things wrong all the time. He can only get understanding from the Holy Spirit Himself. Ask him to ask God if he's believing for something God never promised. He also needs to be prepared for the answer. When I realized that God hadn't promised me this, it had a very profound affect on me. There is far more clarity in my understanding now, but there is more pain than before, and I still don't know what to do. If anything, your friend will have a clearer understanding of what He's hoping God will do for him and whether or not his faith is based on biblical truth. I don't ask God to fulfill my desire anymore, as much as that hurts. My new understanding has brought me to a new place-a much harder place-but a much more real place in Christ. Whether this is part of his struggle or not, I pray he finds some quiet time with God, to open his faith to a new understanding and a new place in Christ and to remember that we are always growing, He is always raising us up higher.

When I need something, I ask for help with it, and don't wait for people to guess what it is. That being said, you have stated you need something, and need someone to ask what it is. What is it you need? How can we help? "It's been a long time since I've been here. I left because I felt rejected and misunderstood. I said some things that came from my heart and suddenly no one talked to me anymore. No one asked questions, no one tried to understand. I was judged and promptly rejected. No one bothered to look at their own level of faith to see if there was something lacking. It was easier to see me as the "whacko", which justifies (to themselves at least) writing me off. I get enough of that in my day to day life. I thought it would be different here. It should be anyways."-the first line of my first post. Ya'll missed me because it was easier to tell me I was angry and bitter and resentful and not humble. Ya'll were so focused on making sure I understood how I was making ya'll feel, you missed how I was feeling. I needed to know if it was safe to be me here. It isn't.

Just a thought to consider: Just as easily as you all are accusing me of being angry, resentful, bitter, etc., I could just as easily turn it around and accuse all of you of not showing patience with someone who's hurting.

if you hadn't projected an image of being so easily offended, there would have been no reason to mention those verses. Gaining knowledge isn't the primary purpose for studying the Word, it has to be manifest in the fruit of the Spirit. Are you just having a bad day? Need to vent??? Go ahead...just don't allow yourself to hold on to a root of bitterness anymore. Yeh. That must be it. I'm just having a bad day. You're right. I'm wrong. Typical. That is not what he is saying, and I hate to say it, but you are overly-defensive, in the extreme. Reading through your posts, I see two common threads in all of them in this thread: 1. That you are extremely angry. 2. Everything bad that happens is someone else's fault. People are reaching out to you here and yet, you still lash out at them. You do not seem to have the ability to accept the fact that some of the problems you experience with other people is because of your own behavior, your own reactions, and your own preconceptions about people and organizations, before you have even experienced them. If you think every person you meet is going to disappoint you, congratulations, that is exactly what will happen. If you think every church is bad and controlling before you even set foot in the door, you'll never find one that isn't, because to your way of thinking, they do not exist. They do, but you will never find it with having judged every one of them before ever having visited them. In ever instance where you talk about others, every scenario has you telling us what they did wrong, how they behaved poorly. The entire scenario seems to be that you are perfectly ok, it is the rest of the world that is messed up. Empirically, that is impossible. Until you can let go of your bitterness and realize that you bring a great deal of these problems on yourself by your own behavior and attitudes, you are going to be a very lonely person. And I am sorry, but these problems are not everyone else's fault. I'm more than willing to accept responsiblity when I am behaving badly-when the Holy Spirit convicts me of doing so. I don't trust my own judgement in that, let alone a bunch of people who have yet to ask me what I need, but are content to tell me what they think I need. I've spent 40 years taking the blame. ALL the blame. I've ruined my life because of it. I believed it when people told me I was to blame. Now God is showing me all the times I took blame when I shouldn't have, and He's showing me why people blamed me. One of the reasons was to distract me from the real issue. So I'm not taking it all anymore. I'm thinking it through, not just accepting every accusation that's thrown at me. I came here with a legitimate complaint about Christians not living up to their projected image. I was hurt by being abandoned like that. Funny how that issue vanished in the midst of blaming me for not being polite. Is anyone here willing to take blame for the poor instruction of said abandoners? Or will you say simply, "I can't take the blame for what someone else did." Aren't we all teaching each other how to behave properly in the good Christian way? How then could they have done that to me? How many others have felt abandoned and slipped off quietly wondering if God cares at all. The people who abandoned me had their reasons, but I was part of their Christian instruction. I failed them somehow. So, I'll be the first to take the blame for people abandoning me (and leaving me to wonder endlessly about what I did), and for professing such faith in God and then not living in it. So, yes. It someone else's fault. It's all our fault.

Hi stormy... I've read the replies and exchanges... revealing in many ways I guess. Its funny what we pick up on when reading each others posts...when I read the above, I didn't disregard what you expressed, but my focus was on that little aside in brackets, 'He fed Isaiah through ravens' and all I could think was...'surely he meant Elijah?' so I double checked in case Isaiah had a similar experience. 1Kings 17:1 Now Elijah the Tishbite, who was of the settlers of Gilead, said to Ahab, “As the LORD, the God of Israel lives, before whom I stand, surely there shall be neither dew nor rain these years, except by my word.” 2 The word of the LORD came to him, saying, 3 “Go away from here and turn eastward, and hide yourself by the brook Cherith, which is east of the Jordan. 4 “It shall be that you will drink of the brook, and I have commanded the ravens to provide for you there.” 5 So he went and did according to the word of the LORD, for he went and lived by the brook Cherith, which is east of the Jordan. 6 The ravens brought him bread and meat in the morning and bread and meat in the evening, and he would drink from the brook. 7 It happened after a while that the brook dried up, because there was no rain in the land. I get the impression that G-d was able to teach Elijah a few home truths as he was stuck away on his own hiding from everyone and yet reliant on surviving by taking food supplied through the word of G-d from an unclean creature such as a raven...must have tested his theology and even made G-d chuckle. Yeh. It was Elijah. I can never keep my prophets straight.

if you hadn't projected an image of being so easily offended, there would have been no reason to mention those verses. Gaining knowledge isn't the primary purpose for studying the Word, it has to be manifest in the fruit of the Spirit. Are you just having a bad day? Need to vent??? Go ahead...just don't allow yourself to hold on to a root of bitterness anymore. Yeh. That must be it. I'm just having a bad day. You're right. I'm wrong. Typical.

I love you guys. I really do. Re-reading my posts I see I'm attacking ya'll. I don't mean to be so defensive. I am so angry. I'm sorry.

Then I have to ask....what exactly do you expect from them? Jesus had one commandment - "Love one another as I have loved you" and He came to be a servant. If you try serving others with a pure heart, you'll find Him in EVERY person. I have truly studied His word. Why are you assuming I haven't? Because I'm hurt? Because I'm lonely? Because I'm angry? I've been told by some people they can't talk with me because I know more of the bible than they do. I see they aren't where I am at and they aren't in a position to listen and learn. What else can I do but leave them alone? I've been told by some that the things I say are frightening. But I didn't say it. God did. Again, I can see clearly by their reaction that they aren't in a position to listen or learn. So again, I back away. I've been told by some that they don't know that story in the bible and will have to read it for themselves. Once again, what can I do but back off? (These people never do come back to me, by the way.) I've been told so many things but what I don't ever see happening is people willing to listen and learn. What I've been told by people is just an excuse to get me to go away. My first year was at a military college. I found a poster hanging on a wall in one of the hallways that displayed the soldiers "Code of Honor". My heart swelled when I read it, and my love for soldiers only grew that much more. I was devestated to discover not one soldier who actually followed through with even one item on that list. Even the guys in charge didn't make them honor the code at all. It was all just pretty words. It was all a lie. Those words meant nothing to the soldier. So why were they put there? For looks? When I told my dad (a soldier from the early 60's) I got only as far the mentioning the Code of Honor when he broke out laughing and said, "No one follows that." What a fool was I. Christians seem like that Code of Honor-pretty words but of no real value to those who profess it. You ask me what I expect of others. You said that we are all of equal value in God's eyes, yet the one of first things you said to me was "If you have truly studied the word..." You put your knowledge above mine as if my knowledge was somehow less that yours. You didn't wait for me to say anything like, "I'm struggling with this..." or "I've asked God about this and I'm waiting for His answer..." You just decided you knew more and therefore should make that clear to me. I don't need you to point out where I am WRONG in my thinking. When did I say "I'm wrong in my thinking and need ya'll to straighten me out"? I needed you to want to understand what I KNOW and that what I KNOW is as equally valid as what you know. That's what I expect of others. They certainly expect it of me. I think I answered a couple of other posts in yours. Sorry.

I think we need to explore the scripture you are quoting here. My take is that Jesus said to the disciples, if you are rejected, shake the dust off your sandals and leave. Right? It was not so much the rejection of the disciples that Jesus was talking about, but the rejection of the message they had. When people reject us, they are not rejecting God, but if they be believers, they are certainly not adhering to the Word. But then again we are all sinners. (one caveat here. We could be rejecting angels, because that is scriptural) And in God's eyes, yes, we are all equally valuable as believers while we are here, there is no scale, no grading. Now a tough question, and no judgement from me, because I ask it from a place I used to be in until I learned to love. Do you love yourself? Or hate yourself? The one difference between me and the disciples is there were 12 of them and they all stuck together. I am alone. I've shaken the dust off my sandals and left too many times to count. As for loving myself, I use too, when I was little. I thought the stuff of me was so cool! I really liked the things I liked and wanted. But the world didn't like those things so I grew to hate myself. What did it matter if I liked me? If the world found no value in those things, if they served no purpose for them, what use was I? Well, God eventually broke through and showed me the value of being appreciated by the world. He made me and thus I have value, even though the people of the world can't see it. For the past year or so, God has been reminding me of those things I knew of myself back when I was little, and introducing me to some stuff I never knew about me. I'm actually really cool. He's kindling a desire in me to return to that sweet little girl I was, that same little girl my dad loved to say was crazy. God has never seen anything wrong with me. Its the world that has a problem with me.

I used to think these same things (church, friend) except for my parents. My parents did the best they could with what they knew. What I have to remind myself everyday is that all these people are God's creation and if God can love them uncondionally, then I have to learn to love them. It takes a lot of grace! What do you mean "associate with the good things of God"? welcome back and Be Blessed. I just mean that what brings comfort and joy to most Christians causes me pain and suffering. My joy and comfort in Him comes from other sources, other places. I'm not implying church is a bad thing. It just isn't good for me.

It sounds sad. However having said this I remember Philip and the Etheopian eunuch, which was a teaching session. Please do not take this as criticism, but rather as something to ponder. Perhaps God wants to teach you through others, but you are not receptive. A spirit of humility is necessary for us to learn. I also want to see God through others, but I must realize that they are made of dust, even as am I, and that their human nature is also their sin nature. It takes an act of our will to stop our sin nature and hear the Word of God. If you want to learn of Him through others you can ask Him to send you to those who can teach you His truth. You must be willing to accept what He sends you. I learned this lesson some years back when I prayed for a teacher, then when He sent me one, I was not willing to learn from him. His voice was strange and what he told me was not what I have already learned from many years of listening to teachers. What I found was that I had a lot to re-learn. I could not fault all those who had taught me in the past, they were also in a learning mode, I am sure. Eventually I told God I did not trust the man He had sent me (what arrogance on my part!) but that I was going to trust (my humility) Him for what he was teaching me. Finally I began to learn and it was amazing! We can only come together on the basis of His truth and that must be our starting point, letting the Word verify itself. Proverbs 3 5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. 6 In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths. All I've ever done is listen and learn (that's part and parcel for being a born thinker). I'm always asking questions, pondering God's truth. When I think of how big God is, I can't help but see just how small I am. II don't have a problem with humility, its other people who have a problem with my humility. They come at me like they know everything and I know nothing. I'm treated like a child who constantly needs to be taught. God told me its people's pride. People who "know" are strong people, but people who don't "know" (aka: those who question) are seen as weak. People feel vulnerable so they have to "know" in order to be seen as strong. Its a defense mechanism. It's pride. People don't listen to God for the exact same reason. I don't even think I have a right to teach people anything. I don't trust in what I know because what I know is always changing thanks to the Holy Spirit, and I don't know the hearts of people, but the Holy Spirit does. I trust God, not me. When I talk to people and try to "give advice" or knowledge, I am simply trying to give a good word at that right moment, a word prompted by God: Pro 15:23 A man hath joy by the answer of his mouth: and a word [spoken] in due season, how good [is it]! Pro 12:25 Heaviness in the heart of man maketh it stoop: but a good word maketh it glad. Recently, the lady I work for and I began what I thought would be a discussion on marriage, vows, forgiveness, biblical reasons for divorce, and how that all ties into walking in faith. The conversation began innocently enough. She's been married for 30 + years and I asked her how it felt. We talked marriage for a bit, then it changed to a discussion on the prevelance of divorce. It started out okay until I said something she disagreed with. Suddenly I was wrong. Wrong, wrong wrong. She began pressing her views on me, cutting me off mid-sentence even, unwilling to hear a different point of view. She had forgotten (or didn't care?) that I am the one pondering divorce. I am looking for help, but also to just be heard and understood. My perspective of divorce is different than hers. Instead of asking me how I actually felt and understood what I know AND BELIEVE, she bulldozed over me with her opinions and ideas insisting that I am wrong. If this had been a hypothetical discussion I would've been fine to just listen, but this is my life. I've talked endlessly with God about this. I've searched God's word endlessly about this. My point of view is not without knowledge so why did she treat me as though I'd never bothered to seek out this information myself? Why did she automatically assume I needed her to tell me I was wrong and then proceed to tell me the "right" way? Not only did she disregard me in this, she disregarded God. All that I do know and believe about marriage and divorce, I know because of God. How could she just blow that off? Why is what God has shown me of so little value and always wrong? This is a typical scenario with me. This particular subject happend to be personal but personal or not, this is how I get treated in every single "discussion". And during this very one-sided discussion, when I wanted to just get quiet and let her talk as I always do when someone gets that defensive, God told me to speak up. He said to quote the verses that backed up what I've learned and leave it at that. The results are up to Him. He said He wanted me to speak up because it would challenge her faith and understanding. I don't know if she learned anything from it or not, but I took something away from it, a perspsective I hadn't considered before. So even in the midst of being attacked I can still learn something.

Ok then sorry to start off this way, but i believe in the truth, and telling it as it is (from my perspective) In the quote above you have taken a lot of things I hold close to my heart, and made me "one of them" before we start. We can talk and I suppose we will, but you need to know that... Church is center to my life I loved both my parents and although they are gone, still do I have many really good friends I can trust with my life I have some awesome teachers in the church, who are also friends. That being said, I know we all come from a different perspective in our walk, yours and mine just happen to differ greatly. That does not mean we cannot discuss things, as long as we keep as our foundation scripture, because only there lies the real truth. Blessings Of course we can talk. I don't condemn others for finding joy and comfort in those things. God intended church to be just that. I just meant that because my associations with those things are so negative, trying to comfort me with those things won't work. I'm always told to "go to church". That seems to be the universal answer for someone who is lonely. But I'm lonely because of how people have treated me. I don't want to be around rejection anymore. That's the part people aren't understanding and don't seem to want to understand. You can't heal a sick person who's allergic to penicillan with penicillan. When I say "one of them" I mean someone unwilling to step outside of their perspective to see things from another point of view; someone determined to get me to always see things from their point of view. Church is healing for you. It isn't for me. Its a source of pain. You can't change my history with that. If you can understand that, then there is hope. I'm willing to hear why church has been good for you. What do you do that makes it good for others? What do they do that makes it good for you? I can handle people disagreeing with me. I can understand that. What I can't understand is why, after a disagreement, they don't continue with me? Why don't they talk to me any more? When I realized I had a whole new family in Christ, I was probably the most excited person in the world. Finally! I could talk to people about God! They'd understand me, I'd understand them! No more of this "you're weird" bit. Can you imagine my shock to discover that the people of the church weren't any different than the people of the world? They were just as close-minded and prideful as the people outside of church. Was I wrong to expect a slight difference at least? Isn't that why God gave us a church? So, I'm sitting there in shock, asking God why, and He said, "I didn't send you to church to be fed, I sent you to feed the church." Okay, I say. Give me the food and I'll feed them. Again, I thought, "Okay, now I'm saying what God tells me to say. They won't reject me now. They wouldn't dare say God is "weird", "too serious," "too deep," or "frightening". But they did. And when I go to His word to find comfort, I come smack up against Paul suffering the same thing. And Jeremiah, and Isaiah, and Moses, and...Jesus Himself. God showed Paul the differences in spiritual growth. Some could only take in milk, others were ready for meat. So Paul encourages people to grow into "meat eaters". So, I figure I just have to have patience. They'll get where I'm at eventually. Jesus said, "Those with ears, let them hear," and left it at that. He never tried to force it on anyone. So I know God's in control of this and no amount of talk is going to change where people are at. He also said that if they reject me, know they rejected Him first. Funny, knowing it isn't me but God people are rejecting doesn't make me feel any better. I know they're rejecting God, but they don't. They think they're rejecting me. Would they treat me with more respect if they REALLY believed I was as valuable to God as they know themselves to be? If some of what I say is hard to swallow, don't outright blow me off. Take it to God. See what He says. Go to the bible. Find the verses that challenge what I've said, and then ask the Holy Spirit if you truly understand every thing about that verse. I've walked with God for a very long time. How then can I know nothing? Where's the respect?

I feel like life is closing in on me like a vise. All I want is to find a real friend, someone who wants to get to know me, someone who feels I add something to their life. The people I'm around everyday want me to be like them. They don't understand why I don't think like them, talk like them, or want the same things they want-and yes, these are Christian people. I'm not "different" to them, I'm "wrong." I'm not someone they can learn something new from, I'm just "wrong." I'm not someone with a unique perspective, I'm just "wrong." When I do get to talk, I get several responses from Christians but it always ends up meaning I'm wrong, they're right. I can handle it if people could say, "I don't understand" but are willing to learn or at least listen to what I'm saying. But that isn't what I get. When I go to a bible study, people beg me to share promising not to be judgemental. So, as usual, I fall for it, share what God shows me, ask questions I ponder, and then it happens...their eyes grow puzzled, their faces close down, and I'm not asked to share anymore. Little by little I'm made to feel unwanted. If I leave and don't come back, no one bothers to call to find out where I've been. Isn't that rejection? I'll give you an example: I want to go to college and get a degree in philosophy. I am a born thinker. I was asking philosophical questions when I was 4 years old. I've been asking them ever since. Its just who I am. Instead of people just accepting this in me, they try to change me.. They tell me I don't need to take things so far, or be so serious about this or that. And they love to say a degree in philosophy won't land me a job, as if that can stop God. They never consider that God made me this way and that He did this for a reason. God put something awesome in me and I feel it all the time. Its bigger than me and (excuse the poor method of expressing this) I feel like its going to rip me at the seams if I don't let it out. And when I do, I get rejected. I have absolutely no skills in dealing with being rejected. You'd think I'd have come up with some kind of defense against it, but I haven't. When I get strange looks, I feel punched in the gut. Whoops. I did it again. God, in His awesome friendship, has been helping me understand that I'm just as good as everyone else, just in a different way. I'm not "weird", "too deep", "strange", "bizarre," or "whacko". God says I'm beautiful. He made me that way. He's rubbing off the gunk the world has buried me under and I'm actually starting to see a little of what He sees. It is beautiful. And people are missing out. But what kind of comfort is that suppose to be? They don't know what their missing so really they aren't missing anything. I'm still alone. If you say "church" to me, I'll say "power hungry, prideful hypocrites"; you say "parents" to me, I'll say "liars"; you say "friend" to me, I'll say "backstabber"; you say "teacher", I'll say "master manipulator". I don't possess "normal" associations with the "good things of God" so telling me these things are "good for me" only makes me see you as "one of them." I look at people and ask God why I'm suppose to listen to anything they have to say anymore. He's the source of all truth and wisdom, after all. I don't need people to know Him. The proof is in the pudding. All that I know of God, He taught me (He fed Isaiah through ravens, remember). People have taught me the ways of the world and of sin-NOT of acceptance and love and all the good things God talks about in His word. But God wants me to talk to others because they also reflect Him. I'll only ever learn so much of God from my own perspective. To learn more of Him, I need to find Him in others. Unfortunately, all I see in people right now is the world. I haven't seen God yet. I can find Him in nature, I can find Him in books, I can find Him in music. I can find God in everything else but people. How sad is that?

It's been a long time since I've been here. I left because I felt rejected and misunderstood. I said some things that came from my heart and suddenly no one talked to me anymore. No one asked questions, no one tried to understand. I was judged and promptly rejected. No one bothered to look at their own level of faith to see if there was something lacking. It was easier to see me as the "whacko", which justifies (to themselves at least) writing me off. I get enough of that in my day to day life. I thought it would be different here. It should be anyways. I only care about learning and growing in God. That means taking risks with what you think you know about God. If you really trust Him, He won't leave you. He stayed with Jesus the entire 33 years He lived on earth. Jesus met with all sorts of ideas and traditions. He learned from the "wisest" of men and yet, through it all, God kept Jesus' knowledge and wisdom and truth safe. He kept His wisdom safe when Jesus began His ministry, which debunked and infuriated and frightened a lot of people. He kept it safe when the "wise" men began to fight back against Jesus' teachings. He stood accused yet remained innocent. God kept Jesus' wisdom safe even through His crucifixion. He kept it safe because through it all, Jesus trusted God. Jesus even prayed God would keep and protect the disciples' faith (John 17). I pray the same. I'm not afraid of someone shaking my understanding. Shake away. Teach me. Challenge me. See what I become. You can't crumble my faith in God because you can't crumble God. But if people here are afraid of being shaken, I'll go somewhere else. I'm not trying to be difficult. I'm hurt, I'm angry, and I am really lonely.

Yep. Good indeed. It's helping me too.

Hey, My reference was: Mat 4:5 Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple, Mat 4:6 And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone. Mat 4:7 Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God. I've always been bothered by Satan's having used God's word against Jesus. Jesus, of course, being the Word of God, used His word to combat Satan. I'm not as wise as Jesus so I've always wondered if I'll be deceived by someone using the Word of God. We see examples of it all the time-televangelists that use His word to "convict" you to send in money (not all of them! just some of them!), ministers that use God's word to manipulate people into doing things God's word specifically says not to do (Jonestown, Applewhite, etc.) I don't want to get drawn into something that uses God's word to blind me to the true path by "mis-directing" my path onto one that looks like Jesus, but isn't. 2Ki 18:28 Then Rabshakeh stood and cried with a loud voice in the Jews' language, and spake, saying, Hear the word of the great king, the king of Assyria: 2Ki 18:29 Thus saith the king, Let not Hezekiah deceive you: for he shall not be able to deliver you out of his hand: 2Ki 18:30 Neither let Hezekiah make you trust in the LORD, saying, The LORD will surely deliver us, and this city shall not be delivered into the hand of the king of Assyria. 2Ki 18:31 Hearken not to Hezekiah: for thus saith the king of Assyria, Make an agreement with me by a present, and come out to me, and then eat ye every man of his own vine, and every one of his fig tree, and drink ye every one the waters of his cistern: 2Ki 18:32 Until I come and take you away to a land like your own land, a land of corn and wine, a land of bread and vineyards, a land of oil olive and of honey, that ye may live, and not die: and hearken not unto Hezekiah, when he persuadeth you, saying, The LORD will deliver us. 2Ki 18:33 Hath any of the gods of the nations delivered at all his land out of the hand of the king of Assyria? No one that we read about followed Rabshakeh, but when I read this, the words in red bold stood out in neon. I don't want to come out to a land like my own-I want the one God Himself promised me. Jesus said that our way is narrow and few find it. I want to be one who does. I know I'll stumble along the way and make my mistakes. Bless my Lord and Savior He tries our hearts! You've started a very good thread...thanks logos! I hope I didn't hurt you.