adimus

Well brother, I tried. My name is Adimus, not "Artimus of the Ephesians." I don't appreciate the subtle attempt at associating me with pagan idolotry. You need to be more like Jesus who loves his bretheren. I agree with others here that trying to reach out to these KJV onlyers has proven to be a fruitless effort for me. Last time I do it here.

I placed all the relevant passages that deal with the rapture, with specific reguard to their chronological order (the order that they were originally written in) and picked them apart. This is what I came up with. If you find your beliefs challenged, re-examine them in the light of scripture interpreted in the order that God gave it. The Tribulation 12:1

I disagree with you. Plenty has been posted about the rapture occurring before the trib. In fact there are threads that address this issue exclusively. So, I won't bother to get into it with you. I just wanted to make sure that you knew that there are many here who disagree with your position. "I only ask that people actually read it and then show me where I am taking anything out of context."

What is wrong with this thread. Do you have a problem with newbies who have never posted here and want to talk about something that has been talked about but is bothering them or that they have aquestion about? I hope not. I like this thread. I can't start a new one yet. This thread is entitled "Christ's Second COming." The rapture is, in my understanding, part of Messiah's second coming. If you disagree than that makes my post all the more relevant to this thread. Did you read my post? Thanks for coming to my aid, Massorite.

Your kidding, right? You don't know Butero from a box of Post Toasties. I do. He and I have debated this point before. We don't agree. He has his position, and I have mine, and I am willing to leave it at that and not resort to name-calling or tactics like calling it "demonic." Your comparing anyone who only believes in the KJV to some sect you know of in Florida, and since you don't know what Butero believes, and since you don't know him persoanlly, it's a comparison that doesn't hold up. You do your Christian brothers and sisters a huge dis-service when you just start arbitrarily start tacking labels like "demonic" onto things. If believing in the KJV only is demonic, then so is running around labeling everything you don't agree with as "demonic." Some things are just a difference of opinion, and nothing more. It does not have to be any more sinister than that. I am not kidding about anything that i wrote there. I also did not call Butero or anyone any names. Labeling a teaching as "demonic" is not insulting or name calling either. I learned how to identify what is demonic from the scriptures themselves. The Bible calls doctrines "demonic" in 1 Tim 4:1. What exactly did I write in my post that was name calling or our of hand? I even qualified my words by stating "I am not saying that KJV only folks are not saved or going to hell. I am saying that this teaching is not of God but is of the devil. You can believe some demonic teachings and yet still believe in Jesus and be saved." I am utterly serious when I say that the fruits of this teaching, in any form, are destructive. That is why I say it is demonic. It does no one any actual good. It only promotes pride, inclusiveness, suspicion, division, distraction from the gospel, etc. If Butero is not a KJV activist, than he is not likely to raise any ungodly ruckus over this issue. However, Butero aside, I do not see how anyone can actually do unbiased research into the KJV only teachings and still remain convinced of the KJV being somehow superior. That notion causes me to have doubts about the motives behind someone steadfastly adhering to KJV only-ism. The reality is that the entire concept of KJVO is founded upon certain authors, speakers and preachers blatantly being deceptive and manipulating the facts to force their personal beliefs of KJVO. Deception is Satanic.

Thanks a lot. This post has raised quite a ruckus at some other places. I only ask that people actually read it and then show me where I am taking anything out of context. Obviously I worked hard on this and I believe that it is simple enough and accurately presented.

I found this book to be very informative on this topic. The King James Only Controversy: Can You Trust the Modern Translations? by James R. White - Religion - 1995 - 286 pages I would highly recommend it to you. It tells the account of exactly who, what, when, where and how the KJV was first translated and published. It also tells the story of the textus receptus and the other major resources that many modern translations draw from. He explains exactly how translations are made and why there are differences between the KJV and most modern translations. Have you read this book?

It's unwise, not to mention insulting to start throwing the word "demonic" around in regards to a difference of opinion such as this. I feel that people that believe only in the KJV are misguided, but it goes no deeper than that. There is nothing demonic about it. Stubborness perhaps, but not demonic. That isn't a word we should just be tossing around. 4:1 Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons, 1 Tim 4:1 This is what I meant by that. In Pensacola Florida, where I once lived, there were a number of churches that held the KJV as the gospel itself. They even taught that if you did not believe in the KJV 1611 only, you were not even saved! That is demonic. Most of the results of this KJV only doctrine are destructive in nature. The tree is known by its fruit. I am not saying that KJV only folks are not saved or going to hell. I am saying that this teaching is not of God but is of the devil. You can believe some demonic teachings and yet still believe in Jesus and be saved.

The KJV is a human translation like all translations. Since 1611, there has been a lot more information discovered to work with that help us translate the Bible into modern vernacular. The KJV is outdated. If you go to the bush in Africa, or to any other country where they do not speak or read English (let alone 17th century English), the gospel is the power of God, not any certain translation of the Bible. Those people will never read a KJV. No one before 1611 ever read the KJV either and God had raised up many prophets and apostles who did fine without it. This KJV only teaching is demonic. It puffs up. It keeps the Bible from being more easily read and understood. It makes the Bible out to be an extrememly "religious" book. It makes the Bible appear to be a dated book that is irrelevant for real life. It dishonestly ignores the weaknesses and errors of the KJV. Its leaders are proven to be liars, plagerizers, and manipulators.

Hi everybody! This is my first post here. I can't start an new topic yet so I thought that this thread may be a good place to jump in. The topic of the thread is a great issue to search out. It has perplexed me for years. My big Q is this: Since Jesus returns when Israel is repentant and is wanting his return, and all the believing Jews (and Gentiles) will be transformed into glorified bodies at his return, what mortal Jews will populate millennial Israel? It is not an impossible question to answer. But it does stretch your mind a bit to look deeper. I am sorry to change the subject, but here is my synopsis of the rapture, which has everything to do with the second coming of Christ, which this thread is about: I placed all the relevant passages that deal with the rapture in chronological order and picked them apart. This is what I came up with. If you find your beliefs challenged, re-examine them in the light of scripture interpreted in the order that God gave it. The Tribulation 12:1