Offering an Apology

[Guest LCPGUY]

I just saw on WorldNetDaily that the winning poll reply as to what to do with the terrorists, is exactly what Dr. Bob Morey advocated. When we kill them, bury them in pigskin. They can

[Guest bluesun]

And very christian, too.........

So far for following what Jesus (pbuh) said.

Edited June 19, 2004 by bluesun

[Guest LCPGUY]

And very christian, too.........

So far for following what Jesus (pbuh) said.

Sorry if you are offended by burying TERRORISTS in pigskin. But EXTREMISTS have to be dealt with by EXTREME actions. They rape, they torture, they enslave, they maim, they kill those who they hate in the name of Allah. Nobody is suggesting this approach for Muslim

[Leonard]

Jesus Christ Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner.

MOLLY???!!!??? Whatever happened to the 'fight' in the Irish? Is it only preserved in us American-Irishers? Hells bells, girl! If some obnoxious twit wouldn't stop tweeking your nose no matter how many times you asked him not to, eventually you'd clop the moron a good one! I hope at least...it's a fine Irish tradition!

EVERY DAY I pray for hundreds of millions of Muslims to come to a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ. I don't hate Muslims. Heck I'm 'adopted' into a Palestinian Muslim family.

As Robert E. Lee said of the Northerners during the American Civil War, "I have never had rancor toward the Yankees, and not a day has passed in which I failed to pray for them, but we fight to whup these people."

Molly, if you search hard enough through old threads here, you will find my "Terrorism Quiz." I think if you take it you may find it enlightening.

With a blessing,

Leonard, a sinner

[nebula]

OOPS!

I forgot to add the disclaimer that I got this through the e-mail. These aren't my words.

:x:

But I thought it offered a good point.

Bluesun - you are correct in that things are more complicated than they seem on the surface. It is sad, though, that there is more outrage towards a few American soldiers humiliating some Iraqi prisoners than there is outrage against what prisoners under Saddam went through . . . or what the kidnappers are doing to their captives.

We don't cut off people's heads with knives!!!!!

[Guest molly]

Hi Leonard,

the Irish are very good at fighting,that's why it took over 30 years before the latest episode in our history ended with the Good Friday agreement. We finally have peace but Catholic and Protestants still live in seperate areas,attend different schools,have few friends or even acquaintances on the other side.

Don't forget it was an Irish man Michael Collins who perfected guerilla warfare as a tactic to enable a small force to wreak havoc on large armies.

It's growing up here has convinced me you cannot expect brute force to solve terrorism alone.You have to ask what has caused terrorism to develop now. Muslims in the past offered refuge to Jews fleeing the Spanish Inquisition,Jews lived with greater safety in Muslim countries like Turkey and even Iraq than in many so called Christian countries.

America was safe in the past from the kind of terror it has ,so sadly,experienced on 11th September.It can deal effectively with this threat.It has vast resources to enable it to do so but brute force alone will politicise another generation and act as a recruitment tool for terrorist organisations,it is vital that effective efforts are made to win over the hearts and minds of Muslim young people.

Iknow that God is in charge,He loves each race and nation equally,in heaven we'll be surrounded by people of every tribe and tongue.What a great hope we have!

[ted]

Molly,

My "big stick" comment was a joke. Me saying "Jesus" wasn't.

I think the world is beyond ruling itself now. Who's right or wrong is too far obscured in hate and blindness.

No, brute force will not provide the solutions by itself, but it will be used to attempt to stop the current threat of murder aimed at the US and it's allies. These people have no desire to sit down and discuss their "plight" over tea. Just as the police will use force to bring down criminals when needed, we will defend ourselves.

Ultimately, it will take nothing short of the return of our Savior to stop war now.

I just can't sit around while our enemies blow us up while we wait.

In Him,

t.

[Guest bluesun]

Dear nebula,

There is no question that what happened under Saddam was very awful and wrong.

There is also no question that the beheading of the two American civilians in Iraq and Saudi Arabia was wrong, too (on moral and religious grounds, whatever religion one belongs to).

What happened at Abu Ghraib was wrong, too. People [the vast majority of which were randomly impisoned, i.e. not for any specific actions] were not just humiliated and tortured but also killed and women raped.

The reason why there is so much shock is because firstly its morally reprehensible what happened and secondly because the USA and co. invaded Iraq to alllegedly free its people, to bring 'freedom and democracy' to iraq, to stop saddams cruelties [after wmd argument turned out to be false].

There has been a lot of outrage of what happened under saddam and still is [i saw a documentary recently about what happened under saddam].

The same is for the beheadings [articles].

I personally think it is wrong to say 'what we've done is not so bad, look at what the 'others' have done'.

PS:

-'the french for being french'. well, they helped the citizens of the USA gain their independence from the British. :-)

-the first country to recognice the USA as an independent country form the British was Morocco, a predominantly muslim country. :-)

-muslims guarded the churches in baghdad (to prevent looting), from their own initiative.

-during the US military standoff in Falludja, christians from baghdad sent an envoy to Falludja, who came together with an islamic cleric. There they both voiced their support for the insurgents who, i paraphrase 'fight the occupation'.

Very complicated indeed...:-) [my source is a documentary film made by two french journalists who went to/were in Falludja/Iraq during stand-off].

regards,

marianne

[Guest yod]

QUOTE 

I am sorry that no such call for an apology upon the extremists came after 9/11.

But condemnations and shows of solidarity with the victims of 9/11 by many, many ordinary muslims and muslim scholars.(http://groups.colgate.edu/aarislam/response.htm)

Yes....I remember the Taliban and Arafat offering their "sympathy" for the victims of 911. I'm sure that there were many sincere muslims on that day but how can we tell which ones are which when they went back to hating America so quickly?

QUOTE 

I am sorry that Arabs have to live in squalor under savage dictatorships.

Which were and still are being supported by the government of the USA.

Best example: Iraq during the 1980's. When Saddam's atrocities and crimes were at an all-time hight, the government of the USA (with Rumsfeld as defence secretary) was the most fervent supporter of Saddam. Not just morally. Also financially and militarily. I've studied this in detail this year at university.

And we did so because of Iran. We don't attempt to control the dictatorships of the world but we do have to deal with the realities of accepting the lesser of two evils as we navigate the political tides of the Middle East.

The atrocities committed by Saddam against the Kurds had not yet happened when we were supporting him against Iran. He was always a terrible dictator...just like every other arabic/islamic regime is.

Are you saying we should have gone to war against terrorists way back then?

Gee....I agree with you then.

QUOTE 

I am sorry that their governments breed hate for the US in their religious schools.

Many muslims are being persecuted in their own country (Egypt, etc.). What degree of control do the governments have? What exactly is taught? The governments, which are being held in powere by the govt. of the USA.

We aren't holding any government in power. We give financial aid to corrupt regimes who illegally use the money for other things...because we have no other choice.

Is there another kind of government in the arab world besides the corrupt ones?

That is not the same thing as condoning their behaviour.

QUOTE 

I am sorry the United Nations scammed the poor people of Iraq out of the "food for oil" money so they could get rich while the common folk suffered.

.The very sanctions the govt. of the USA and GB initiated. Even basic food stuffs such as rice and medicines and medical appliances were included in the sanctions. Unicef estimates that half a million children under the age of 5 died as a direct consequence of these sanctions. Madeleigne Albright just states: "the price--we think the price is worth it." (reply to Lesley Stahl's question on "60 Minutes" on May 12, 1996)

Saddam had plenty of money and oil to buy these things for the Iraqi people but did not. Another good reason to rid the world of his regime.

Now we find that the French and Germans were complicent in this corruption...and that is why they did not want to see his regime fall.

Don't you even try to lay that blame on America!

QUOTE 

I am sorry that foreign trained terrorists are trying to seize control of Iraq and return it to a terrorist state.

Many, who decide to fight against the occupation, are iraqis, whose house was encircled during the night by american soldiers and tanks shouting "open the f****g door!", the door being destroyed, familily, children being held at gunpoint, or whose family members have been shot dead by the occupation forces (there are countless stories to tell...). Do you truly believe that this leaves anyone indifferent?

And that example is relevant because....?

I don't doubt that mistakes have been made...war is like that. Life and death decisions have to be made in split seconds by armed kids barely out of high school. Iraqis can cooperate and have nothing to fear...or they can resist and be treated as enemies. It's up to them.

However, that is no moral equivalent to the wanton execution of innocent civilians with no motive except hatred.

[nebula]

Hey, Bluesun!

I hope you realise I don't think the actions by the US soldiers in that prison were justified. As I stated in the title, it is offering another perspective on the issue. again, I got this through e-mail.

Why did I post it? A lot of us are feeling frustrated about the world's attitude toward us. About the French - we feel betrayed by them.

But I have the feeling your opinion on this is set in stone - as is mine - so trying to explain further, I am sure, will only result in a verbal mud wrestle.

Is the US handling everything perfectly? Of course not. But really, at least the president, Congress, and US public expressed outrage over this. That's more than Saddam's regine ever did.

And that's more than Sudan's government is giving the Christians of its country for their being raped, tortured, and murdered by government forces. Not to be changing subjects, but why is the US being so singled out as "the most evil empire"?