Christian nurse under fire over Muslim prayer room

[ParanoidAndroid]

I can also judge by fruits, my friend. I see a tolerance for evil in yours and we, as Christians, are not required to do that. I also defer to the Lord to decide and, just so you know, God doesn't expect me to mushmouth my views on the greatest evil the world has ever known.

Fair enough. I guess we're just going to disagree and put both our lives in the hands of God one day.

I am not naive. I just haven't demonised those you consider the enemy. Christianity was once a cult, and that is FACT. Now it has grown beyond such constrictions. The same is said for Islam. When Islam is held by over 1 billion people, it cannot be a "cult". Unless Christianity is also a cult, of course.

Are you a muslim, PA?

No, I'm not a Muslim. My beliefs most closely resemble Conservative Evangelical Christianity. What makes you say that I am a Muslim? Because I state the FACT that Christianity in its early years would have been considered nothing more than a cult!

Quoting the Qu'ran here would be heresy. You have said it all above; if you see no evil in a 'god' who actively works to populate hell and to deceive the faithful...then you're blind. Who exactly do you think is saying this?

I'm not here to debate the Terms of Service. If quoting the Qu'ran isn't allowed, then it isn't allowed and I won't request it again (I did say I was not aware of that rule). But I think you really need to search our own Bible scriptures to see what they say about God sending people to hell - God does indeed work so that certain people will go to hell (however, the exact nature of that hell might be different to the one you or Muslims think hell is).

Don't look now but most muslims don't CHOOSE islam and they certainly can't leave it regardless of whether they are born into it or convert. Faith doesn't hold adherents by the threat of death; that would be a cult.

Deporting muslims might not help their souls. However, we are not to consort with evil or idolaters.

Most people don't choose Christianity either. The majority are born into Christian households and believe their whole life. Some of the more extreme families go as far as to shun children or relatives if they deconvert. One friend I know via email in America had her own aunty tell her cousins that they couldn't play with her because her parents were not Christian. Another person converted to Judaism - he was beat up at school by those who were once his church friends.

It might not be threats of death, but the psychological ramifications are quite similar in many ways. For many people the threats of familial rejection will lead to false belief, not of true Faith but of Fear.

As for peace and tolerance...I'd hand that one over to the Israelis; they could tell you, first hand, all about that.

And the Israeli's are not exactly innocent. Perhaps the Palestinians could tell you how peaceful the Israeli's are!

[nebula]

I didn't say it was "beautiful in the eyes of the Lord", did I? I simply said there was beauty in there.

But what beauty would that be in your eyes?

To see beauty where the Lord sees none?

[nebula]

I'm sorry you don't understand it. I just think the best way to promote understanding is to see things from their point of view. . . .

Have you ever heard or read the testimonies of former Muslims who turned to Christ Jesus?

They have nothing but disdain for Islam, call it a lie, and could care less about "understanding."

And it wasn't "understanding" that won them over to Jesus. It was the exposure of their belief as a lie and that of Jesus the Son of God as truth.

[ParanoidAndroid]

But what beauty would that be in your eyes?

To see beauty where the Lord sees none?

As I said, I think you and I have different understandings on this topic. Perhaps if I quote something it might help you see my view more clearly. It's the introduction to a book called "A Spectator's Guide to World Religions". If you could read these one or two paragraphs it should help see my view more clearly. You can then comment if you wish and provide your feedback.

... Bias in the description of other Faiths is a sure sign of a lack of confidence in one's own Faith. I can't speak for other Christian writers but it seems to me perfectly obvious that if someone feels the need to misrepresent, say, Islam, in order to make Christianity look good, that person's Christian belief is anything but confident.

If Christianity is uniquely true, its beauty will be best seen only when viewed amidst a full and fair account of the alternatives. Let me give you an analogy that comes to mind. Imagine yourself as an art curator who is convinced that one piece in his collection has an unequalled quality. What will you do? Will you dim the lights on the "competitors" in the gallery and put the spotlights on your favourite piece. Of course not. That would be a sure sign you were not actually convinced about the special beauty of your treasured masterpiece. I mean, if you've got to obscure the other pieces in order to make your favourite one look good, something is clearly wrong. A truly assured curator, that is, one with a deep confidence in the excellence of his prized item, would place all the gallery lights on full, confident that as careful art-lovers inspect the whole collection, viewing all the works in their best light, one painting, in particular, will draw people's attention....

~ Dickson, J. Spectator's Guide to World Religions, p. 6. Blue Bottle Books, 2005.

This is how I view other religions. I don't think this is a sign that I am accepting evil, or seeing beauty where God does not. I know that only Christianity is the true path to God. However, I am also confident enough in what I believe to look over the fence and see what others believe, and more importantly, why they believe it. I think if we look at all views in their best possible light, see the beauties that they have, then Christianity will stand out. However, if I try to demonise alternative beliefs, I'm just going to push people away and prove somewhat that I have no real confidence in my own beliefs.

Your thoughts would be appreciated

~ PA

[ParanoidAndroid]

Have you ever heard or read the testimonies of former Muslims who turned to Christ Jesus?

They have nothing but disdain for Islam, call it a lie, and could care less about "understanding."

And it wasn't "understanding" that won them over to Jesus. It was the exposure of their belief as a lie and that of Jesus the Son of God as truth.

Have you ever read testimonies from former Chrsitians who became Atheists? I have. Some of them still speak fondly of their former beliefs. Most I have read though speak of the rampant bigotry and hatred that was shown from those who supposedly followed a loving saviour who would never do what they do in his name.

Most ex-Christians have nothing but disdain for Christianity and call it a lie!

I totally disagree that understanding does not help. I think it is only through understanding that people can begin to dialogue. If someone tells you that what you believe is a lie, are you going to listen to anything they say? Chances are not. At best you will hear them out before pulling out standard apologetic responses. Why would it be any different the other way around?

Only when you start listening to each other can you truly start to communicate. If you are confident enough in your own beliefs (see my last post) the best way to share beliefs is to put them up in equal lighting, confident in knowing that Christianity will stand out as unique on its own. Putting other beliefs in darkness and poor lighting won't serve any useful purpose.

Just a thought,

[nebula]

I totally disagree that understanding does not help. I think it is only through understanding that people can begin to dialogue. If someone tells you that what you believe is a lie, are you going to listen to anything they say? Chances are not. At best you will hear them out before pulling out standard apologetic responses. Why would it be any different the other way around?

PA - I wasn't talking about "how to witness" to a Buddhist or Muslim. I was talking about what it is or isn't.

What approach do you read Paul taking, BTW?

[nebula]

... Bias in the description of other Faiths is a sure sign of a lack of confidence in one's own Faith. I can't speak for other Christian writers but it seems to me perfectly obvious that if someone feels the need to misrepresent, say, Islam, in order to make Christianity look good, that person's Christian belief is anything but confident.

In reading the Bible as a whole, and knowing that god doesn't change, and that Jesus is One with the Father -

When I read the Old Testament, I don't read anything that would support this notion. Would you accuse Elijah of a lack of confidence for the tauntings he gave the priests of Baal on Mt. Carmel for instance?

If Christianity is uniquely true, its beauty will be best seen only when viewed amidst a full and fair account of the alternatives. Let me give you an analogy that comes to mind. Imagine yourself as an art curator who is convinced that one piece in his collection has an unequalled quality. What will you do? Will you dim the lights on the "competitors" in the gallery and put the spotlights on your favourite piece. Of course not. That would be a sure sign you were not actually convinced about the special beauty of your treasured masterpiece. I mean, if you've got to obscure the other pieces in order to make your favourite one look good, something is clearly wrong. A truly assured curator, that is, one with a deep confidence in the excellence of his prized item, would place all the gallery lights on full, confident that as careful art-lovers inspect the whole collection, viewing all the works in their best light, one painting, in particular, will draw people's attention....

~ Dickson, J. Spectator's Guide to World Religions, p. 6. Blue Bottle Books, 2005.

After what Jesus went through for our redemption, how can you cheapen His sacrifice so as to compare Him to critically evaluating works of art?

This is how I view other religions. I don't think this is a sign that I am accepting evil, or seeing beauty where God does not. I know that only Christianity is the true path to God. However, I am also confident enough in what I believe to look over the fence and see what others believe, and more importantly, why they believe it. I think if we look at all views in their best possible light, see the beauties that they have, then Christianity will stand out. However, if I try to demonise alternative beliefs, I'm just going to push people away and prove somewhat that I have no real confidence in my own beliefs.

It's not about "Christianity." It is about Jesus Himself. Christianity as a religion has many flaws to it - denominational divisions for example. The truth is not Christianity. The truth is Jesus. In comparing religions, what we have to offer has a lot to be undesirable to a person of another religion. However, showing them Jesus overshadows religion.

Really, I don't understand the turn this thread has taken.

Our brothers and sisters in Christ in Pakistan are suffering and are under threats we can't possibly understand, and people here have the gall to condemn them?

[nebula]

nobody is condemning brothers and sisters in Christ in Pakistan that I have seen.

The only thing I have seen condemned was saying we should put a bounty on all Muslims in the US, bag and kick them ALL out of the country.

Then what was this?

Honestly I think it was a mistake for Mrs Purses to have the Muslim room closed down the way she did. They didn’t really need the room, as was pointed out above, a Christian can pray any where at any time

This is not fight she is going to win in Pakistan, and now it seems to be hurting the witness of the Christians.

[glorywatch]

It all comes down to "hath God said?" Either we believe what the Word of God says about what is truth and what isn't or we believe false teachings, no matter how beautiful or wonderful we think some of what they believe is.

Every since the garden it's come down to that one thing....belief in the Word of God. God set the standard. God said what is truth. God said what is the way to him. Anything that does not line up with what God says is FALSE.

All the semantics in the world won't alter the facts. It's either TRUTH according to God's Word or it's false, also according to God's Word.

Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth and the life, no man comes to the Father, but by me." There are NO other ways to God. Pure and simple.

[nebula]

It all comes down to "hath God said?" Either we believe what the Word of God says about what is truth and what isn't or we believe false teachings, no matter how beautiful or wonderful we think some of what they believe is.

Every since the garden it's come down to that one thing....belief in the Word of God. God set the standard. God said what is truth. God said what is the way to him. Anything that does not line up with what God says is FALSE.

All the semantics in the world won't alter the facts. It's either TRUTH according to God's Word or it's false, also according to God's Word.

Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth and the life, no man comes to the Father, but by me." There are NO other ways to God. Pure and simple.