Christian nurse under fire over Muslim prayer room

[MorningGlory]

wanting to put a bounty on a group of people tends to suggest a hate for that group. there really is no way around it.

It doesn't suggest anything. If I meant I hated them I would just SAY I hated them. Please get with the program.

Did Jesus put a bounty on anyone's head?

No.

What did Jesus ever said would lead you to the conclusion such a thing was a good thing?

Nothing.

Did Jesus show HATE for those that choose not to follow him?

No. And neither do I. See above.

[MorningGlory]

It doesn't suggest anything. If I meant I hated them I would just SAY I hated them. Please get with the program.

like it or not, that is the message it sends. It is a message of hate. even if that is not your intent, that is the reality.

I guess you are not a big fan of WWJD?

Perhaps the 'message' is in the eye of the beholder....if that's what you want to see in those words....knock yourself out, brother.

[ParanoidAndroid]

I didn't say anything about hating anyone; I said they had no place in my country. Please read again. In fact, I despair over the loss of over a billion souls if they continue on their chosen path. I am far from narrowminded and have taken the time to study islam before speaking out about it.

You don't hate them, you just want to arrest them and throw them out of a country they have every Right to live in. I don't live in America. I'm an Australian, should we kick them out of my country as well? What about the U.K? Where do you think it's ok for Muslims to live?

Push it whichever way you want, your claims are totally against Christ's edict to Love your enemies. It's pretty hard to show love for enemies when you would (if you could) routinely kidnap them and throw them out of your country.

I'm aware that 'allah' is Arabic for 'god'; they are not referring to the God of Abraham however as they don't follow Him. I can send you the surahs that quote 'allah' as saying he wishes to populate hell and describing how he deceives his followers (I would never post them here.). There's no way to sugar coat or minimalize these things because they are part of the Qu'ran.

Any Muslim will tell you that they are worshipping the same God as Abraham. However, they claim that the true word has been corrupted and so Islam is the true fulfillment of the Abrahamic belief. As I said, that is more a perverted form of Yahweh-worship, not the worship of a completely different deity.

Islam doesn't need ME to demonize the belief. If you can see beauty in the cult of Mohammadism you must be seeing something other than what I see. Btw, if you find a true follower of islam, not one of the secular muslims but a TRUE believer, that is peaceful you need to alert the media.

I think I must be seeing something very different to what you see. For starters, you still insist on calling their belief the "cult of Mohammadism". Islam cannot be considered a "cult" today. Remember that at one stage, Christianity was also just the "cult of Jesus'ism". Simply stating that Islam is just a cult will not make it so.

I also find your comment about the "true believer" being peaceful rather ignorant. One could just as easily point to the places in the Tanakh (our Old Testament) that shows God commanding Israel to utterly destroy towns or massacre nations and then suggest that we should also be "true believers" and follow those commands. Of course, if someone did that, you and I would both say they are taking those passages out of context.

I know many people that are true believers in Islam. They are not all criminals, contrary to your assertions. They are good people. Loving people that follow the Qu'ran. And the Qu'ran teaches that Christians are brothers. So go ahead and quote your Qu'ranic verses that command the death of non-believers. Maybe I'll counter with God's commands to Israel in Numbers 31. That darn "C" word again (context). Funny how context only applies to our own beliefs and should be ignored whenever we want to if it helps cast another belief in bad light.

Jesus told us that the only way to the Father is through Him; He didn't teach that there are various ways to God or that it's okay to worship false gods. If true belief scares you then maybe you need to revisit the teachings of Jesus.

I didn't say it was ok to worship false gods, nor did I say that there are various ways to God. Now you are twisting what I am saying. Just because I can see that there is earthly beauty in a particular religion or belief does not by default mean that I agree with it as another path to God. Truth and beauty are not synonymous. If you can't see the beauty in someone else's beliefs, what makes you think that when you speak to a non-Christian they will see the beauty in your belief?

[ParanoidAndroid]

Nevertheless, I do not think that this, by definition, means that every other Faith is founded by Satan.

That is a very odd statement, PA.

Can you name one belief or practice or faith that sets itself up against the knowledge of God in Christ Jesus as being . . . OK? godly? acceptable by the Lord? . . . ?

I'll try to explain. I'm not saying that following other beliefs are godly or acceptable. However, I don't like the dichotomy of "if it's not from God, it must be from Satan". The world has far too many shades of grey for such black-and-white statements. I do appreciate that a path that doesn't lead to God by its definition leads away from God. But that doesn't mean the path was created by Satan.

Islam is a beautiful religion that teaches submission to Allah. From an eternal perspective though, they do not recognise Jesus as the Messiah and so regardless of how well-intentioned, it cannot lead to Truth. But that doesn't by necessity mean that it is a path created by Satan. It was a path created by man. I think it's too easy sometimes to simply say "Satan did it". Buddhism arose because Siddhartha Gautama saw flaws in his native Hindu beliefs. He rejected the notion of Brahman and after a path of many years, Buddhism was the end result. Both Hinduism and Buddhism lead to places other than God. But that is not to say that both came from Satan. If Satan created Hinduism (which is actually a collection of different beliefs rather than a single unified religion) then Satan also inspired someone to disagree with Hinduism just so they could then go and start a different religion.

Hope that clarifies my meaning

~ PA

[MorningGlory]

Perhaps the 'message' is in the eye of the beholder....if that's what you want to see in those words....knock yourself out, brother.

who else would it be in?

our words and our actions are all viewed by others and they are the ones that determine what the message is to them.

Uh huh.

[MorningGlory]

You don't hate them, you just want to arrest them and throw them out of a country they have every Right to live in. I don't live in America. I'm an Australian, should we kick them out of my country as well? What about the U.K? Where do you think it's ok for Muslims to live?

Australia is the concern of Australians; I'm only speaking of my own country. And yes, I would have them deported if it was up to me. I've no idea where it's okay for muslims to live.

Push it whichever way you want, your claims are totally against Christ's edict to Love your enemies. It's pretty hard to show love for enemies when you would (if you could) routinely kidnap them and throw them out of your country.

How do you know whether I love my enemies or not?

Any Muslim will tell you that they are worshipping the same God as Abraham. However, they claim that the true word has been corrupted and so Islam is the true fulfillment of the Abrahamic belief. As I said, that is more a perverted form of Yahweh-worship, not the worship of a completely different deity.

They do NOT worship the same God; if you had really read the Qu'ran you would have read the words of their 'god'. My God offers salvation to any and all. 'Allah' certainly does not. And of course muslims will say they worship the same God. They're totally deluded people.

I think I must be seeing something very different to what you see. For starters, you still insist on calling their belief the "cult of Mohammadism". Islam cannot be considered a "cult" today. Remember that at one stage, Christianity was also just the "cult of Jesus'ism". Simply stating that Islam is just a cult will not make it so.

You're right; simply stating that would not make it so. I am relying on the testimonies of ex-muslims as to whether it's a cult.

I also find your comment about the "true believer" being peaceful rather ignorant. One could just as easily point to the places in the Tanakh (our Old Testament) that shows God commanding Israel to utterly destroy towns or massacre nations and then suggest that we should also be "true believers" and follow those commands. Of course, if someone did that, you and I would both say they are taking those passages out of context.

No comparison; islam is a cult, they worship satan and cannot be put in the same ballpark as Christianity. I might point out that I find your naivete rather ignorant as well.

I know many people that are true believers in Islam. They are not all criminals, contrary to your assertions. They are good people. Loving people that follow the Qu'ran. And the Qu'ran teaches that Christians are brothers. So go ahead and quote your Qu'ranic verses that command the death of non-believers. Maybe I'll counter with God's commands to Israel in Numbers 31. That darn "C" word again (context). Funny how context only applies to our own beliefs and should be ignored whenever we want to if it helps cast another belief in bad light.

You KNOW that I can't quote Surahs from the Qu'ran here. I will point you to a couple that are relevant to the discussion though: Surah 6:39, 126, Surah 30:29, and Surah 32:13. They have nothing to do with the deaths of nonbelievers, btw. You post whatever you want; it's a free country (yours and mine).

I didn't say it was ok to worship false gods, nor did I say that there are various ways to God. Now you are twisting what I am saying. Just because I can see that there is earthly beauty in a particular religion or belief does not by default mean that I agree with it as another path to God. Truth and beauty are not synonymous. If you can't see the beauty in someone else's beliefs, what makes you think that when you speak to a non-Christian they will see the beauty in your belief?

I'm not concerned about that nor do I see how you can find beauty in a belief system that enslaves and dooms it's followers. I am concerned about their souls; even though you say I hate them....I don't. Nor am I twisting what you say. And every time I read of converts from islam (or other beliefs) to Christinaity I am very happy to know they have a chance to enter the Kingdom. THAT'S what it's all about, after all.

[ParanoidAndroid]

How do you know whether I love my enemies or not?

It was Jesus in Luke 6 that said we shall be known by our fruits. The fruits of your mouth show a total intolerance for those who follow Islam. You have stated that they are all criminals (no exception) and if given the ability you would kidnap and deport anyone who ascribed to that belief. It may not be your intention to project this image, but this shows to me that there is no love here - how is deporting Muslims beneficial to their salvation? I can only Judge by your fruits, MG. I could be wrong, and that is why it is not my place to lay Judgement (condemnation) on others. Only God can do that. I hope that God sees a different side of you than I do.

They do NOT worship the same God; if you had really read the Qu'ran you would have read the words of their 'god'. My God offers salvation to any and all. 'Allah' certainly does not. And of course muslims will say they worship the same God. They're totally deluded people.

You're right; simply stating that would not make it so. I am relying on the testimonies of ex-muslims as to whether it's a cult.

No comparison; islam is a cult, they worship satan and cannot be put in the same ballpark as Christianity. I might point out that I find your naivete rather ignorant as well.

I am not naive. I just haven't demonised those you consider the enemy. I see human beings who should be treated like human beings. Even if they don't believe what we do, the only way that will change is through love, not by deporting people. They may worship their deity in a way we deem wrong, but Jews don't worship God the way we believe He should, but that doesn't make them a cult. Buddhism doesn't worship any creator at all (at least, not traditional Theravada Buddhism) but we don't call them a cult. Christianity was once a cult, and that is FACT. Now it has grown beyond such constrictions. The same is said for Islam. When Islam is held by over 1 billion people, it cannot be a "cult". Unless Christianity is also a cult, of course.

You KNOW that I can't quote Surahs from the Qu'ran here. I will point you to a couple that are relevant to the discussion though: Surah 6:39, 126, Surah 30:29, and Surah 32:13. They have nothing to do with the deaths of nonbelievers, btw. You post whatever you want; it's a free country (yours and mine).

I'm sorry, I wasn't aware that quoting the Qu'ran here was against the Board Rules. I won't ask that again. My point was simply to show that there is a context to everything, even the Qu'ran. Muslims who follow the Qu'ran would say that you are taking their holy book out of context, just like we would tell non-Christians that they are taking the Bible out of context if they try to tell us that God commands us to slaughter our enemies.

edit: I just checked out those Qu'ran references for myself. I'm not sure how these are evil passages that make Muslims worth deporting. Indeed, some of them mirror very closely what the Bible actually says (perhaps that's what you find so evil about it???). Thanks anyway

I'm not concerned about that nor do I see how you can find beauty in a belief system that enslaves and dooms it's followers. I am concerned about their souls; even though you say I hate them....I don't. Nor am I twisting what you say. And every time I read of converts from islam (or other beliefs) to Christinaity I am very happy to know they have a chance to enter the Kingdom. THAT'S what it's all about, after all.

Now finally we have something to agree on. You seem to think that just because I see beauty in a system that I am therefore happy to allow a person to believe whatever they want without a care for their spiritual well being. That is not the case. I simply have looked into what believers in various beliefs have chosen to see in the world around them, and from there I have seen how to them this would be a beautiful way to live.

After all, if it wasn't beautiful to them, they wouldn't have chosen it in the first place, would they? Once we see that someone else came to their beliefs logically and rationally, we can then move to proper discussion of our various beliefs. If we simply dismiss everything they say as irrelevant, what kind of discussion can come? Would they even be willing to entertain listening to what you believe if you aren't going to listen to what they believe? If it turns out that they convert, then fantastic. If they don't, then at least you can live together in peace and understanding rather than intolerance.

Though as an aside, I would be interested to find out how deporting a Muslim will help their soul

[nebula]

Read about Herod's death in the book of Acts.

Ok, here it is....

Then Herod went from Judea to Caesarea and stayed there a while. 20He had been quarreling with the people of Tyre and Sidon; they now joined together and sought an audience with him. Having secured the support of Blastus, a trusted personal servant of the king, they asked for peace, because they depended on the king's country for their food supply.

21On the appointed day Herod, wearing his royal robes, sat on his throne and delivered a public address to the people. 22They shouted, "This is the voice of a god, not of a man." 23Immediately, because Herod did not give praise to God, an angel of the Lord struck him down, and he was eaten by worms and died.

24But the word of God continued to increase and spread.

25When Barnabas and Saul had finished their mission, they returned from[a] Jerusalem, taking with them John, also called Mark.

Where is the calling for a bounty in his head by a mere man?

Personally I will not take God's action and assume I can do them also.

RG - you asked:

Did Jesus put a bounty on anyone's head?

I was simply showing you a place where Jesus actually did put a bounty on someone's head.

I mean, He struck Herod dead after all.

[nebula]

I'll try to explain. I'm not saying that following other beliefs are godly or acceptable. However, I don't like the dichotomy of "if it's not from God, it must be from Satan". The world has far too many shades of grey for such black-and-white statements. I do appreciate that a path that doesn't lead to God by its definition leads away from God. But that doesn't mean the path was created by Satan.

Then where did it come from?

Islam is a beautiful religion that teaches submission to Allah.

Beautiful?

From an eternal perspective though, they do not recognise Jesus as the Messiah and so regardless of how well-intentioned, it cannot lead to Truth. But that doesn't by necessity mean that it is a path created by Satan. It was a path created by man.

And where did Mohamed claim to have gotten his teaching from?

I think it's too easy sometimes to simply say "Satan did it". Buddhism arose because Siddhartha Gautama saw flaws in his native Hindu beliefs. He rejected the notion of Brahman and after a path of many years, Buddhism was the end result. Both Hinduism and Buddhism lead to places other than God. But that is not to say that both came from Satan. If Satan created Hinduism (which is actually a collection of different beliefs rather than a single unified religion) then Satan also inspired someone to disagree with Hinduism just so they could then go and start a different religion.

But a lie is still a lie.

And who is the Father of Lies?

[ParanoidAndroid]

Then where did it come from?

Human minds! By nature, humans are sinful. Satan doesn't make us sinful, we are born with the natural tendency to sin. Satan only plays on our sinfulness to tempt us to do things that go against God. So when we sin, Satan may have tempted us, or it may simply be our natural sinfulness working away. Therefore, if someone creates a religion they believe to be right, that does not necessarily mean that it was started by Satan. It was started by human beings. Satan may or may not have been involved with the creation of those beliefs, and it is certainly far too muddy to make clear-cut assertions that one thing was inspired by Satan and another thing was not.

Beautiful?

Yes. Beautiful! The simple fact is that people wouldn't follow it if there wasn't something there to be enticed by.

And where did Mohamed claim to have gotten his teaching from?

He claims to have received the message direct from Allah! Why?

But a lie is still a lie.

And who is the Father of Lies?

Siddhartha Gautama certainly did not see Buddhism as a lie. At best, we Christians can say he was "mistaken". His fundamental assumptions about the nature of suffering and attachment are flawed (from a Christian perspective, that is - others might say our assumptions about salvation are equally flawed; we would, of course, disagree with them).

It is not therefore right to simply say it's a "lie". It is then too easy to simply reject anything anyone else says. We may believe a person is mistaken, but remember that they believe the same about us. If we reject what they believe as a "lie", how do they view us? Without critically looking at what other people believe and (probably more importantly) why they believe what they believe, there is no way to bridge that gap of understanding. All parties will simply end up repeating what they believe while rejecting out of hand everything the other person is saying. With such limited communication, our ability to share the gospel is already hamstrung to an extent.

It may be wrong, but it is not necessarily a "lie". though with that said, because Satan is the tempter, it is possible that some things are indeed the work of Satan. However, pointing fingers at him seems too much like trying to justify any action by saying, "the Devil made me do it".

All the best, nebula

~ PA