Confused about origins of the NT

[Floatingaxe]

Sorry, but we are all priests, and serve our God in His glorious Church---the brotherhood of believers, and we walk with Christ, bearing His authority.

1 Peter 2:9

9 But you are not like that, for you are a chosen people. You are royal priests, a holy nation, God’s very own possession. As a result, you can show others the goodness of God, for he called you out of the darkness into his wonderful light.

Revelation 1:5-6

and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler over the kings of the earth.

To Him who loved us and washed us from our sins in His own blood, 6 and has made us kings and priests to His God and Father, to Him be glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen.

Revelation 5:9-10

9 And they sang a new song, saying:

“You are worthy to take the scroll,

And to open its seals;

For You were slain,

And have redeemed us to God by Your blood

Out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation,

10 And have made us kings and priests to our God;

And we[c] shall reign on the earth.”

Floatingaxe, you are trying to change the structure of the only Church that Jesus left for all of us,

Not.

you are saying that we are all priests ,I agree, but their are "ordained clergy" [ Biblical ordained clergy that is,not just ordained ] that have the apostolic authority given them from the direct High Priest Himself, Jesus. Hebrew 13:17 tell each and everyone of us Christians that we are to obey those leaders [ Church clergy ]

Ask yourself this question; what did Jesus do to continue His sanctifying work on earth?

Before you react or start thinking about that question I would like for you to look up these verses 2nd Cor. 5: 20 and also Heb. 5: 1 .now you try and tell me that those verses are not saying that there is a special authorative clergy/priest set up for "all' of us.

We are all priests that have the same orders to go and preach the gospel to every creature, and to disciple people in the way of the Lord. Yes, Holy Spirit anoints certain ones among us to lead us, but they are our brothers and sisters and are not more important than anyone with another gift of service to our King.

Jesus sent Holy Spirit to continue His sanctifying work. We are His dwelling place, His Church.

On reading your last post , i will quickly show you how in your verse of 1 Peter 2:9-10 that you used, how you misinterpret it .In that verse we see Peter warning the faithful about despising authority. He is referring to the apostolic authority granted only to them by Jesus .also see Luke 10:16

I don't misinterpret scripture, but I see that you do in this case.

[Floatingaxe]

Tim Staples is unknown to me and you are only posting his opinions, and they do not all stand up to God's word, so you are not any further ahead.

All Christians everywhere are a royal priesthood. We do not need the hierarchy that the Roman Catholic religion has instituted. Jesus didn't institute it. We all have only one mediator---Jesus Christ.

[Reformed-cross]

Catholics recognize the difference between the priesthood of the faithful and the ministerial priesthood:

Priesthood: (1) Of the faithful: The priestly people of God. Christ has made of his Church a "kingdom of priests," and gives the faithful a share in his priesthood through the sacraments of baptism and confirmation. (2) Ministerial: The ministerial priesthood received in the sacrament of holy orders differs in essence from this common priesthood of all the faithful. It has as its purpose to serve the priesthood of all the faithful by building up and guiding the Church in the name of Christ, who is head of the Body. some pats copied from both the following sources-

'A refutation of the misrepresentations of the writings of William Webster and Church Fathers by Catholic, Stephen Ray, former Baptists and from my Holy Bible '' The New American Bible "

Barry: So, youre taking this thread as a platform to assert the authority of the Pope? It must be true, why bring in pretended apostolic successors and pretended books unless what the Protestant Church has must be deficient in your view?

The Protestants understand the 5 fold ministry of the apostles and prophets, pastors, evangelists and teachers.

I do appreciate the fact that youve shifted to allow a priesthood of all believers whereas in times past the RCC burned them for seeking to obtain a bible let alone quote from one. You must have seen the light of (RCC error).

But its all plain that the Pope has no authority over the Church. Maybe his own little flock, but over the Church universal. No. There is no apostolic succession. There is no authority granted to apostolic successors because they would be pretended sucessors, fakes that cannot say to own what is not available to them. If the bible were as explicit as you make it sound, there wouldnt be an argument about the Pope, but, those who read thier bibles have found that your interpretations, not the bible, that binds them to men and to traditions and authorities that are usurpers and not true pastors.

Your Mass, your veneration of Mary, your angel worship, your additional books, your papal authority, your saints, your works-based salvation are all anathema. They are accursed for they are twisting of scripture, a perversion of what may be known of God. The true Church is free from your bondage, its free from the tyranny of popes and their cardinals and bishops. In the countries I go to, I preach the gospel to them that they might be delivered from the religious bondage that entraps them in RCC traditions. These ignorant religionists are no more converted to Christ than the Devil, yet because of the blindness and ignorance of the priests their flocks live in spiritual death. Praying to Mary, Praying to saints, reciting their rosary they walk straight forward into hell.

It is sad to me that you chose an ex-baptist to serve as a testimony to Papal authority. You must know that the baptists by the grace and mercy of God have had the privilege of leading many tens of thousands of catholics to a living faith in Jesus Christ, renouncing the dead and fruitless living associated with the RCC.

You cannot bury the error of interpretation underneath the technicalities of greek-english transliteration. Once the smoke clears the enemy of faith is once again seen.

Ill end with my rebukes to the RCC with saying that this thread belonged to the origins of the New Testament, not with the origins of the RCC and the promulgation of its errant teachings.

R.E.

[Reformed-cross]

For the early Fathers, "the identity of the oral tradition with the original revelation is guaranteed by the unbroken succession of bishops in the great sees going back lineally to the apostles. . . . [A]n additional safeguard is supplied by the Holy Spirit, for the message committed was to the Church, and the Church is the home of the Spirit. Indeed, the Church’s bishops are . . . Spirit-endowed men who have been vouchsafed ‘an infallible charism of truth’" (ibid.).

Thus on the basis of experience the Fathers could be "profoundly convinced of the futility of arguing with heretics merely on the basis of Scripture. The skill and success with which they twisted its plain meaning made it impossible to reach any decisive conclusion in that field" (ibid., 41).

Copied from Protestant church historian J. N. D. Kelly

Barry: What The Historian Kelly gives in one quote he takes away with another quote. The patristics are not near so favorable to your cardinal doctrines as you presume upon us. The bible destroys them amply for us and we need not go back to Rome.

The whole of Catholic apologetics takes us from the 'inch to the mile' at every assertion.

We (the protestants assert) The Church does have successors.....the early fathers and believers that preached the message of the gospel. The "Mile" the Catholic apologist insists is that because there is a continuation of godly gifted men called to lead the Church....that these are Papal, infallible, and able to launch at us the Mass, Mary and works salvation. This we deny and assert that the RCC continually seeks to exert authority in matters that belong to the Spirit and the Scripture alone.

You should start another thread, this is a hijacking of this thread and Im surprised we haven been censored.

R.E.

[OneLight]

You should start another thread, this is a hijacking of this thread and Im surprised we haven been censored.

R.E.

Thanks for the concern, RE, but this thread was a three year old thread resurrected by a new member. I considered the thread dead before this, but if you would like, I can split it. It is not what the OP intended, but where Barry has taken it. The OP has not been here in a very long time.

[Reformed-cross]

You should start another thread, this is a hijacking of this thread and Im surprised we haven been censored.

R.E.

Thanks for the concern, RE, but this thread was a three year old thread resurrected by a new member. I considered the thread dead before this, but if you would like, I can split it. It is not what the OP intended, but where Barry has taken it. The OP has not been here in a very long time.

Onelight: I think it should be split, thanks.

R.E.

[Guest yod]

Everyone says they want to return to the New Testament Church these days....

But few seem to realize that there were 2 things the New Testament Church didn't have....a New Testament or a Church.

If we want a return to the original faith, we'll have to learn what the original faith community looked like, which doesn't resemble anything you've been told by your "church". They studied the Tenach and lived in community. That was gone out the window when they kicked the jews out only a few centuries later. Until that time, the community of the faithful was overwhelmingly a jewish expression of faith and observed ONLY a biblical way.

But once the bigots of the "church" were able to separate themselves from jews and the faith of Israel, they set out to remove all traces of jewish expression and instead re-interpreted the paganism and greco-mythology they were comfortable with already.

To be pure, one has to remove the schmutz. The word for repentance comes from the hebrew concept of t'shuvah (turning). We must turn from our ways, and the ways of the world. The more we do so, the more spiritual power we have to continue doing so.

We can be "saved" and know proper theological concepts intellectually.... yet not completely submitted to obedience in love.

This is why Yeshua says He will reward the one who overcomes, which in the original language, means those who didn't stop half-way.

[OneLight]

You should start another thread, this is a hijacking of this thread and Im surprised we haven been censored.

R.E.

Thanks for the concern, RE, but this thread was a three year old thread resurrected by a new member. I considered the thread dead before this, but if you would like, I can split it. It is not what the OP intended, but where Barry has taken it. The OP has not been here in a very long time.

Onelight: I think it should be split, thanks.

R.E.

As a somewhat newbie on this forum, I don't understand 'split', what is that all about,please ?

We "split" threads when the original threads topic become hijacked, meaning the topic is not that of the OP, and the hijacked subject matter is of interest to others. What we do is we take the posts that pertain to the new subject and create a new thread out of them. When I have the time, I will do this to the newer posts, later than the 2009 posts. If people wish to reference the older posts, they will still be available from this thread.