WorthyNewsBot Posted March 25, 2009 Group: Bots Followers: 3 Topic Count: 39,879 Topics Per Day: 6.45 Content Count: 44,444 Content Per Day: 7.19 Reputation: 987 Days Won: 2 Joined: 06/06/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted March 25, 2009 A federal court in New York on Monday expanded teenagers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest yod Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 This is another scary thing happening in synch with the rest of the craziness. Under this law, a minor can get the "morning after" pill to cause an abortion without notifying their parents, without going to see a doctor, and without even getting a prescription. This is a very dangerous drug to be taking with a physician attending....and much more dangerous for minors taking it without a doctor present And this law would help hide the evidence of those who molest under age girls since a visit to a doctor or hospital wouldn't be a legal necessity This horrible ruling from the court in New York will likely increase abortions and medical complications for attempted abortions drastically...but we may never know the numbers because it allows total anonymity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
georgesbluegirl Posted March 25, 2009 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 30 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,234 Content Per Day: 0.17 Reputation: 7 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/17/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/10/1987 Share Posted March 25, 2009 This is another scary thing happening in synch with the rest of the craziness. Under this law, a minor can get the "morning after" pill to cause an abortion without notifying their parents, without going to see a doctor, and without even getting a prescription. This is a very dangerous drug to be taking with a physician attending....and much more dangerous for minors taking it without a doctor present And this law would help hide the evidence of those who molest under age girls since a visit to a doctor or hospital wouldn't be a legal necessity This horrible ruling from the court in New York will likely increase abortions and medical complications for attempted abortions drastically...but we may never know the numbers because it allows total anonymity Okay. I understand that some people here are of the mind that Plan B causes abortions because if taken at the later end of the 72 hour window it may caused a fertilized egg not to implant. However, this is NOT how it normally works -- it prevents ovulation. AND a lot of recent studies have cast doubt on the idea that it actually could create an "inhospitable womb" and prevent implantation. So even taking your argument that by interfering with implantation, EC causes an abortion, at its very strongest, EC can still only *rarely* be considered an abortifacient. Second point, leaving behind the debate over the pill itself -- it needs to be taken within a very small window to be effective, so having it over the counter is just plain horse sense. I will come back to this point in a moment. Thirdly, the fretting about molestation and minors is a tad dramatic considering that the ruling only extends to 17 year olds. In many (most, I think) states, 16 is actually the first "age of consent"....usually it's a breakdown like 16 is the age of consent with a partner up to 23, and then 18 is the full age of consent. It isn't exactly like a 12 year old will be able to walk up to a counter and get Plan B with no questions asked, no parent involved. Finally, it's definitely not "a very dangerous drug." At all. Some people experience painful side effects, but most people just go through some cyclical irregularity. It's really just like taking a bunch of normal birth control pills at once. You might be one of the unlucky minority who throws up, but most people just get nauseous, if anything. And I am on a college campus (in a state where it's over the counter, no less), so I'm around this issue a lot. My feeling on this is if a woman needs it, you should make it as easy as possible for her to get it, as quickly as possible (just as a side thing -- couldn't you argue that the whole process is slowed down by needing a scrip, therefore making it more LIKELY that you prevent a fertilized egg from implanting after all, if you accept that posit? just a thought). I have been a party to more than one situation where somebody went through hell and needed it, and have always been glad that all they had to do was go to our Health Center (free there), or buy it from Rite Aid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunterpoet Posted March 25, 2009 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 0 Topic Count: 128 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,704 Content Per Day: 0.44 Reputation: 25 Days Won: 1 Joined: 05/29/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/08/1950 Share Posted March 25, 2009 This is another scary thing happening in synch with the rest of the craziness. Under this law, a minor can get the "morning after" pill to cause an abortion without notifying their parents, without going to see a doctor, and without even getting a prescription. This is a very dangerous drug to be taking with a physician attending....and much more dangerous for minors taking it without a doctor present And this law would help hide the evidence of those who molest under age girls since a visit to a doctor or hospital wouldn't be a legal necessity This horrible ruling from the court in New York will likely increase abortions and medical complications for attempted abortions drastically...but we may never know the numbers because it allows total anonymity Okay. I understand that some people here are of the mind that Plan B causes abortions because if taken at the later end of the 72 hour window it may caused a fertilized egg not to implant. However, this is NOT how it normally works -- it prevents ovulation. AND a lot of recent studies have cast doubt on the idea that it actually could create an "inhospitable womb" and prevent implantation. So even taking your argument that by interfering with implantation, EC causes an abortion, at its very strongest, EC can still only *rarely* be considered an abortifacient. Second point, leaving behind the debate over the pill itself -- it needs to be taken within a very small window to be effective, so having it over the counter is just plain horse sense. I will come back to this point in a moment. Thirdly, the fretting about molestation and minors is a tad dramatic considering that the ruling only extends to 17 year olds. In many (most, I think) states, 16 is actually the first "age of consent"....usually it's a breakdown like 16 is the age of consent with a partner up to 23, and then 18 is the full age of consent. It isn't exactly like a 12 year old will be able to walk up to a counter and get Plan B with no questions asked, no parent involved. Finally, it's definitely not "a very dangerous drug." At all. Some people experience painful side effects, but most people just go through some cyclical irregularity. It's really just like taking a bunch of normal birth control pills at once. You might be one of the unlucky minority who throws up, but most people just get nauseous, if anything. And I am on a college campus (in a state where it's over the counter, no less), so I'm around this issue a lot. My feeling on this is if a woman needs it, you should make it as easy as possible for her to get it, as quickly as possible (just as a side thing -- couldn't you argue that the whole process is slowed down by needing a scrip, therefore making it more LIKELY that you prevent a fertilized egg from implanting after all, if you accept that posit? just a thought). I have been a party to more than one situation where somebody went through hell and needed it, and have always been glad that all they had to do was go to our Health Center (free there), or buy it from Rite Aid. Read several articles, none mention that it prevents ovulation, all said prevents implantation and prevents sperm/egg union, but did not specify. All agreed exact mechanism was unknown. The small window thing is interesting. Sperm live 3 to 5 days inside a women and some up to 7, the ovum only lives 24 hrs. Oral progestin reaches peak blood levels in 1 to 4 hrs and is cleared from blood stream in 24hrs. So the therapuetic effects are only good for 36 hrs. The pill is 89% effective under ideal conditions, condoms have a 90 to 95% effectiveness under ideal conditions. Articles agree progestin is reasonably safe, although all agree that they do not understand exactly how the drug works and there are no long terms studies. You say you know women who have gone thru hell and needed the drug, is this in reference to rape, I should think if they had gone to ER that the doctors there would have offered it, otherwise these women should consider refraining from needing the drug. I'm fascinated by all the ways folks come up with positive reinforcement for bad behavior and call it charity,compassion and understanding. You say you are on a college campus, interesting, less than 10 days ago I listened to a report that talked about how college students are more into multiple partners and parties etc etc. I'm not sympathetic to your cause. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunterpoet Posted March 25, 2009 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 0 Topic Count: 128 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,704 Content Per Day: 0.44 Reputation: 25 Days Won: 1 Joined: 05/29/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/08/1950 Share Posted March 25, 2009 I'm not sympathetic to your cause. I would say, therein lies the problem. Many Christians no longer seem to be sympathetic to the lost. It now seems to be "Oh well, they get what they get". I don’t think this is the correct attitude. Perhaps it is from those that have grown up in the church and have been Christians since early in their life. As one that came to Christ as an adult, as one that made many a bad choice, I am glad that the Christians in my life did say "oh well, you made your choice, now live with it". They were sympathetic to my cause. They didn’t encourage or condone my actions, but they were there for me when I needed it and that is one of the things that showed me they were different and one of the reasons I am here today, both alive and as a Christian. I am sympathetic to the cause of those that work on college campuses for the very things you listed, these people need Christians to be in their lives more than ever, yet we turn away and say "oh well, you made your choice, now face the consequences of it". We have Christians on these boards who have said "let them get STDs or AIDS, it is the consequences for their actions". Does this sound like something Jesus would say? Is that really the way we are going to bring people to Christ? If we can prevent the spread of STDs, AIDS and slow the tide of unwed pregnancies and abortions, shouldn't we do it? I think we should be sympathetic to the cause of the lost, that is what we are here for. I said I was not sympathetic to her CAUSE ie making the case for the after morning pill, never said I wasn't sympathetic to the lost.... Now had she said she was doing everything she could to teach other young women the folly of an immoral sex life I would have supported her 100%. Did she mention praying with these girls who had gone thru hell or trying to lead them to the Lord...no...she just complained how they couldn't get the pill. The morning after pill is just another tool that reinforces bad behavior. When do people begin to take responsibility for their actions, after they get their degree???? How many times do you have to give a lecture before you expect the student to " get it" ??? Being empathetic to her cause is like feeling sorry for an alcoholic who complains he can't get enough booze. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
georgesbluegirl Posted March 25, 2009 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 30 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,234 Content Per Day: 0.17 Reputation: 7 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/17/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/10/1987 Share Posted March 25, 2009 That got alarmingly personal very quickly. Also, Hunter, I don't know where you've been getting information, but EC works via the same mechanism as other hormonal BC, which basically convinces your body it's already pregnant and thus prevents ovulation. Also, an ova doesn't live 24 hours...it's sperm with the short life span, as you mentioned. An ova just gets fertilized, or not. Menstruation is the product of the body not having an egg (that has been fertilized) implant in the uterine lining, not the death of the egg. This is mostly what I want to say -- Now had she said she was doing everything she could to teach other young women the folly of an immoral sex life I would have supported her 100%. Did she mention praying with these girls who had gone thru hell or trying to lead them to the Lord...no...she just complained how they couldn't get the pill. The morning after pill is just another tool that reinforces bad behavior. Please back off a little. You really do not know these circumstances, and you really should not jump to conclusions (and I guess you weren't reading very carefully, because I was actually being thankful that these women COULD get Plan B). This is the problem -- so many people think of Plan B as unnecessarily foolproofing the mistakes of "irresponsible young women," and forget the other major reason why it needs to be available: sexual assault. When I say the situations I was privy to were hell, you need to believe it. So please, please, don't jump straight to judgement, and don't try to judge my value as a friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
georgesbluegirl Posted March 25, 2009 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 30 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,234 Content Per Day: 0.17 Reputation: 7 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/17/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/10/1987 Share Posted March 25, 2009 I'm not sympathetic to your cause. I am sympathetic to the cause of those that work on college campuses for the very things you listed, these people need Christians to be in their lives more than ever, yet we turn away and say "oh well, you made your choice, now face the consequences of it". We have Christians on these boards who have said "let them get STDs or AIDS, it is the consequences for their actions". Does this sound like something Jesus would say? Is that really the way we are going to bring people to Christ? If we can prevent the spread of STDs, AIDS and slow the tide of unwed pregnancies and abortions, shouldn't we do it? I think we should be sympathetic to the cause of the lost, that is what we are here for. This too. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kat8585 Posted March 25, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 1,360 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 7,866 Content Per Day: 1.23 Reputation: 26 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/22/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/18/1946 Share Posted March 25, 2009 I'm not sympathetic to your cause. I would say, therein lies the problem. Many Christians no longer seem to be sympathetic to the lost. It now seems to be "Oh well, they get what they get". I don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest LadyC Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 This is another scary thing happening in synch with the rest of the craziness. Under this law, a minor can get the "morning after" pill to cause an abortion without notifying their parents, without going to see a doctor, and without even getting a prescription. This is a very dangerous drug to be taking with a physician attending....and much more dangerous for minors taking it without a doctor present And this law would help hide the evidence of those who molest under age girls since a visit to a doctor or hospital wouldn't be a legal necessity This horrible ruling from the court in New York will likely increase abortions and medical complications for attempted abortions drastically...but we may never know the numbers because it allows total anonymity Okay. I understand that some people here are of the mind that Plan B causes abortions because if taken at the later end of the 72 hour window it may caused a fertilized egg not to implant. However, this is NOT how it normally works -- it prevents ovulation. AND a lot of recent studies have cast doubt on the idea that it actually could create an "inhospitable womb" and prevent implantation. So even taking your argument that by interfering with implantation, EC causes an abortion, at its very strongest, EC can still only *rarely* be considered an abortifacient. Second point, leaving behind the debate over the pill itself -- it needs to be taken within a very small window to be effective, so having it over the counter is just plain horse sense. I will come back to this point in a moment. Thirdly, the fretting about molestation and minors is a tad dramatic considering that the ruling only extends to 17 year olds. In many (most, I think) states, 16 is actually the first "age of consent"....usually it's a breakdown like 16 is the age of consent with a partner up to 23, and then 18 is the full age of consent. It isn't exactly like a 12 year old will be able to walk up to a counter and get Plan B with no questions asked, no parent involved. Finally, it's definitely not "a very dangerous drug." At all. Some people experience painful side effects, but most people just go through some cyclical irregularity. It's really just like taking a bunch of normal birth control pills at once. You might be one of the unlucky minority who throws up, but most people just get nauseous, if anything. And I am on a college campus (in a state where it's over the counter, no less), so I'm around this issue a lot. My feeling on this is if a woman needs it, you should make it as easy as possible for her to get it, as quickly as possible (just as a side thing -- couldn't you argue that the whole process is slowed down by needing a scrip, therefore making it more LIKELY that you prevent a fertilized egg from implanting after all, if you accept that posit? just a thought). I have been a party to more than one situation where somebody went through hell and needed it, and have always been glad that all they had to do was go to our Health Center (free there), or buy it from Rite Aid. georgesblue, you can only get pregnant for 72 hours either side of ovulation. ovulation happens appx 2 weeks before your next period, in the middle of your cycle. plan B is not designed to prevent ovulation, if it was, it would be totally USELESS as a morning after pill. but, i don't consider the prevention of an egg being fertilized to be abortion anyway. what i'm opposed to is allowing minors to have access to it without parental consent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest yod Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 leaving behind the debate over the pill itself -- it needs to be taken within a very small window to be effective, so having it over the counter is just plain horse sense. My minor children can't buy an aspirin....yet they can make a decision like this without any consultation at all? You honestly see no contradiction there? , the fretting about molestation and minors is a tad dramatic considering that the ruling only extends to 17 year olds. So they get someone else to buy it for them. The point is that an abortion is no longer being recorded anywhere and a 12 year old who is pregnant from being molested is never known about. Finally, it's definitely not "a very dangerous drug." At all. Not what I've been told. This site lists a few people who have died from taking it http://www.ru486.org/ And when girls start taking it often "just in case" they're pregnant, it will greatly increase the risk. You do a good job of making it sound like taking an aspirin but its always dangerous to introduce foreign substances into the body without the advantage of a medical professional I have been a party to more than one situation where somebody went through hell and needed it, and have always been glad that all they had to do was go to our Health Center (free there), or buy it from Rite Aid. That girl is still going through hell because drugs are not the answer to her problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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