jasoncran Posted March 19, 2012 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,246 Content Per Day: 0.28 Reputation: 90 Days Won: 5 Joined: 02/16/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted March 19, 2012 if god appeared and did what you athiest ask you wouldnt believe , the isrealites didnt believe when they saw gods hand daily , that generation died out in the wilderness save their kids and joshua and caleb. the bible is done by exegesis not esiegesis otherwise why bother with the cross? we could by that same thinking say this its not important that you believe that he died physically on the cross but rather that we do as jesus said. im sure some wacky christian church has said that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasoncran Posted March 19, 2012 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,246 Content Per Day: 0.28 Reputation: 90 Days Won: 5 Joined: 02/16/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted March 19, 2012 if god appeared and did what you athiest ask you wouldnt believe , the isrealites didnt believe when they saw gods hand daily , that generation died out in the wilderness save their kids and joshua and caleb. the bible is done by exegesis not esiegesis otherwise why bother with the cross? we could by that same thinking say this its not important that you believe that he died physically on the cross but rather that we do as jesus said. im sure some wacky christian church has said that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 .... He posted in the Outer Court and so I can only surmise he is interested in hearing the unbeliever's response. Beside, if our position is ludicrous, as you say, why not just refute it? Personally, I invite constructive criticism. If my thinking is in error then I welcome a correction.... Constructive Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created. Revelation 4:11 Thinking Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem, Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him. Matthew 2:1-2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted March 19, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.94 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Or that God believes in the human ability to use our brains and learn the Hebrew culture and mindset, then apply this knowledge to our reading of the Scripture. Well, this works if you live in the western world and you have time to learn the Hebrew culture and mindset, and join Bible classes after work. I doubt, that most of the population of the world will ever have the time and means to do that. Does that mean that they will be excluded from understanding Scriptures for reasons outside their control? Actually, from what I have heard from missionaries, the people of the non-western world understand the Scriptures much better than we do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~candice~ Posted March 19, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 955 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 11,318 Content Per Day: 1.89 Reputation: 448 Days Won: 33 Joined: 12/16/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted March 19, 2012 if god appeared and did what you athiest ask you wouldnt believe... Sorry, not following your remark. Are you saying that if God himself appeared and asked what evidence we needed to demonstrate his existence, and he provided that evidence, we still wouldn't believe? ... the isrealites didnt believe when they saw gods hand daily... Yes, I always thought that a little odd. Why would a people who had witnessed the parting of the Red Sea turn to worshiping a golden calf the moment Moses turns his back. It's more than just a little odd, don't you think? It seems to fly in the face of common sense and makes me think that isn't the complete story. There must be another explanation that is not being spelled out. People saw Jesus do miracles and still didn't believe Him! It is a human heart condition, and continues even today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 .... the Israelis didn't believe when they saw gods hand daily.... .... Yes, I always thought that a little odd. Why would a people who had witnessed the parting of the Red Sea turn to worshiping a golden calf the moment Moses turns his back. It's more than just a little odd, don't you think? It seems to fly in the face of common sense and makes me think that isn't the complete story. There must be another explanation that is not being spelled out.... Sin The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it? Jeremiah 17:9 And The Kinsmen And if a sojourner or stranger wax rich by thee, and thy brother that dwelleth by him wax poor, and sell himself unto the stranger or sojourner by thee, or to the stock of the stranger's family: After that he is sold he may be redeemed again; one of his brethren may redeem him: Leviticus 25:47-48 Redeemer For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth: And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God: Whom I shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold, and not another; though my reins be consumed within me. Job 19:25-27 The Rest Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. Philippians 2:5-8 Of The Story For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 .... Or that God believes in the human ability to use our brains and learn the Hebrew culture and mindset, then apply this knowledge to our reading of the Scripture.... .... Well, this works if you live in the western world and you have time to learn the Hebrew culture and mindset, and join Bible classes after work. I doubt, that most of the population of the world will ever have the time and means to do that. Does that mean that they will be excluded from understanding Scriptures for reasons outside their control.... .... Actually, from what I have heard from missionaries, the people of the non-western world understand the Scriptures much better than we do.... Eyes And they brought unto him also infants, that he would touch them: but when his disciples saw it, they rebuked them. But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Suffer little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God. Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child shall in no wise enter therein. Luke 18:15-17 Wide Open The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork. Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge. There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard. Psalms 19:1-3 Eyes For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: 2 Peter 5:5-6 Shut Tight But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them. 2 Corinthians 4:3-4 ~ Wake Up Wake Up The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand. He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. John 3:35-36 Beloved But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Romans 5:8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasoncran Posted March 19, 2012 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,246 Content Per Day: 0.28 Reputation: 90 Days Won: 5 Joined: 02/16/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted March 19, 2012 if god appeared and did what you athiest ask you wouldnt believe... Sorry, not following your remark. Are you saying that if God himself appeared and asked what evidence we needed to demonstrate his existence, and he provided that evidence, we still wouldn't believe? ... the isrealites didnt believe when they saw gods hand daily... Yes, I always thought that a little odd. Why would a people who had witnessed the parting of the Red Sea turn to worshiping a golden calf the moment Moses turns his back. It's more than just a little odd, don't you think? It seems to fly in the face of common sense and makes me think that isn't the complete story. There must be another explanation that is not being spelled out. they lusted after things ie quail and complained when all they had to so say God we need water, that is why he slew them, they instead said god you sent us here to die.why doesnt education of drugs and crime stop the criminal or user from doing it? why doesnt law stop crime? its a matter of the heart. that is why.you assume that men is good where god says without him man is evil. paul the greatest of all the apostles thought the least of himself. he considered himself unworthy of the call but yet obeyed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted March 19, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.94 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Actually, from what I have heard from missionaries, the people of the non-western world understand the Scriptures much better than we do. Is that before or after they met the missionaries? Before. Note, not all missionaries are primarily evangelistic to unreached groups. They minister to churches, and in these cases the Christians there there have taught the the missionaries things about living the Scriptures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted March 19, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.94 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted March 19, 2012 ... the isrealites didnt believe when they saw gods hand daily... Yes, I always thought that a little odd. Why would a people who had witnessed the parting of the Red Sea turn to worshiping a golden calf the moment Moses turns his back. It's more than just a little odd, don't you think? It seems to fly in the face of common sense and makes me think that isn't the complete story. There must be another explanation that is not being spelled out. Actually it wasn't "the moment Moses turns his back." He was gone for over a month. Likewise, chances are in their minds they were worshiping God. They followed the ways of Egypt, the ways of the land they were born and raised, what they were familiar with, in giving an earthly form to the One they claimed to worship and following the Egyptian way of worship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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