BlindSeeker Posted August 17, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 70 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,117 Content Per Day: 0.53 Reputation: 448 Days Won: 5 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted August 17, 2009 So what is marriage and where is polygamy condemned? FWIW, I can tell this from Jewish law. If a man takes a woman into his house as his wife and has physical relations with her they are considered married. The church calls that "fornication" which is a word that does not even exist in the original Greek of the NT. What would you call it? Marriage. And what determines it is intention. So, how many wives do you feel are permitted by God . . . as many as one intends to sleep with? As has been pointed out a number of times there is no condemnation of polygamy in Scripture. But that isn't the main point I am trying to make. The real point is that the church should not condemn two people who live as husband and wife without a legal slip of paper from the government. What I am trying to find out is do you believe it is ok to have more than one wife and not be in sin. Yes I do. Edit: I need to clarify that. It would depend on the laws of the land. Interesting. Do they teach that at your church? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smalcald Posted August 17, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 32 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 5,258 Content Per Day: 0.76 Reputation: 42 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/16/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/22/1960 Share Posted August 17, 2009 So who baptized you and where do you take communion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlindSeeker Posted August 17, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 70 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,117 Content Per Day: 0.53 Reputation: 448 Days Won: 5 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted August 17, 2009 I belong to the same church you do. The only church that exists. There is no church building I attend on a regular basis and I belong to no denomination. So, I'm married . . . are you? If so, if it were legal would you take a 2nd wife yourself? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abusa Posted August 17, 2009 Group: Junior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 93 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/10/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/11/1966 Share Posted August 17, 2009 Ok I did not catch the snake by the tail. So I can say what I have gathered from the discussion so far. The issue is what the church says and the government of whichever land one lives against what God says. Sad to see that most contributions align themselves to what the government says first. What God says is not so important in this issue is what I have gathered because God has not anywhere in the written scripture said that polygamy is a sin. Sin by the way is disobedience of whatever God says. It is not anything that you thing is bad is sin that is in your mind. The scriptures are very clear on sin. Its like the pharisees who added their own interpretation of the law to make it hard for people and prove others sinners them righteous. Since no one has shown anyone on this discussion where God has said polygamy is sin then those that claim it is must prove by scripture or evidence of some written or spoken words attributed to God. If polygamy is sin then God made David sin. Marriage is simple, it is not by a written piece of paper or vows taken in front of a servant of the church or government but as written in the scriptures. Take a woman physically (to avoid using thee word) and as Isaac did, you are married. I think the intention must be that the woman you are taking, you are taking her to be your wife. No vows, no signed papers or certificates, it is before God who sees the heart of man and all done in secret places. The Jews should know better for they have dealt with God longer than any other nation or tribe. Now you may not like polygamy but it is real and here to stay for it was from th beginning and has never been condemned by God. There are many things that the church claim is of God yet 100% their imaginations. Why can we not stick to what is in the scripture and stop being like the pharisees? Or better why not follow our master and Lord Jesus, he is after all the way, the truth and life. Did you hear him or read of him speak of polygamy? No. I may not accept polygamy but I will not add to God's word my own laws and declare what God has not declared to be sin as sin. We are like the pharisees Jesus said go to ends of the world to convert one soul and do everything possible to send that very soul straight to hell. How time repeats itself. The wise man was right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlindSeeker Posted August 17, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 70 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,117 Content Per Day: 0.53 Reputation: 448 Days Won: 5 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted August 17, 2009 Ok I did not catch the snake by the tail. So I can say what I have gathered from the discussion so far. The issue is what the church says and the government of whichever land one lives against what God says. Sad to see that most contributions align themselves to what the government says first. What God says is not so important in this issue is what I have gathered because God has not anywhere in the written scripture said that polygamy is a sin. Sin by the way is disobedience of whatever God says. It is not anything that you thing is bad is sin that is in your mind. The scriptures are very clear on sin. Its like the pharisees who added their own interpretation of the law to make it hard for people and prove others sinners them righteous. Since no one has shown anyone on this discussion where God has said polygamy is sin then those that claim it is must prove by scripture or evidence of some written or spoken words attributed to God. If polygamy is sin then God made David sin. Marriage is simple, it is not by a written piece of paper or vows taken in front of a servant of the church or government but as written in the scriptures. Take a woman physically (to avoid using thee word) and as Isaac did, you are married. I think the intention must be that the woman you are taking, you are taking her to be your wife. No vows, no signed papers or certificates, it is before God who sees the heart of man and all done in secret places. The Jews should know better for they have dealt with God longer than any other nation or tribe. Now you may not like polygamy but it is real and here to stay for it was from th beginning and has never been condemned by God. There are many things that the church claim is of God yet 100% their imaginations. Why can we not stick to what is in the scripture and stop being like the pharisees? Or better why not follow our master and Lord Jesus, he is after all the way, the truth and life. Did you hear him or read of him speak of polygamy? No. I may not accept polygamy but I will not add to God's word my own laws and declare what God has not declared to be sin as sin. We are like the pharisees Jesus said go to ends of the world to convert one soul and do everything possible to send that very soul straight to hell. How time repeats itself. The wise man was right. I personal do not play with serpents, nor do I believe in adding to the Word of God. I do however believe in studying to show yourself approved unto Go and prayerful rightly dividing the word of truth . . . and thus applying it. Therefore, even while considering your line of reasoning, I am still persuaded of the passing of polygamist relationships previously permitted (not to be confused with "preferred") for the people of God as I stated in my previous post. We clearly see in the beginning that God created "two" to be one and the same is reaffirmed in the NT as well by Jesus and Paul the Apostle- Mt 19:5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh? 1Ti 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach; 1Ti 3:12 Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well. Tit 1:6 If any be blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly. However, I know you know these verses and reading them here and now will not sway your position anymore than your line of reasoning did me, but their presence in scripture is anything but 100% my imagination. Perhaps the failure of Holy Writ to record any words of Jesus regarding polygamy is simply because that which God did intend is addressed in simple clarity of "the two shall be one flesh" and not "they all shall be one flesh." Nonetheless as I stated, by my understanding it was permitted for the men in the OT to have more than one wife is because of what the relationship of a man and women prophetically represents. God created humanity both male and female so they could Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abusa Posted August 17, 2009 Group: Junior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 93 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/10/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/11/1966 Share Posted August 17, 2009 Enlighten me, is the "one" in these verses the same in the original language or different? If the same then I need you to explain how thousands of us believers shall be one as Jesus asked the Father. Gen 2:24 Therefore, a man shall leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave to his wife and they shall become one flesh. Joh 17:21 that all may be one, as You are in Me, Father, and I in You, that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me. Is the word "one" in both the verses above the same word in origin. If it is then is it not possible that being in a polygamous marriage still is being one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smalcald Posted August 17, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 32 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 5,258 Content Per Day: 0.76 Reputation: 42 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/16/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/22/1960 Share Posted August 17, 2009 I still have not heard why anyone would intentionally deny thier husband or wife the protections offered in legal marriage? A wife should have everything a husband has legally, that is part of two becoming one. As written in scriptures Marriage was indeed a public profession and celebration of the joining of two families and two people before God, legally, spiritually and physically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlindSeeker Posted August 17, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 70 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,117 Content Per Day: 0.53 Reputation: 448 Days Won: 5 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted August 17, 2009 Enlighten me, is the "one" in these verses the same in the original language or different? If the same then I need you to explain how thousands of us believers shall be one as Jesus asked the Father. Gen 2:24 Therefore, a man shall leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave to his wife and they shall become one flesh. Joh 17:21 that all may be one, as You are in Me, Father, and I in You, that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me. Is the word "one" in both the verses above the same word in origin. If it is then is it not possible that being in a polygamous marriage still is being one? I know you emphasis is one the word "one" which can only be prophetically symbolic in a marriage through sexual intimacy. However, my emphasis is not on the "oneness" but rather the biblically clear "twain" or "two" that becoming one. As finite beings we cannot fully represent what an infinite God can do by His ability to be in all the redeemed for He is omnipresent. By our own physical limitations by Royal design we as males can only be in one woman at a time prophetically reflecting the inhabitation of God in His church imparting His seed of life in us. Yet the woman in her finite state represents not just one of the church, the the church as a whole; likewise man in his finite state represents the infinite Savior of humanity. Is the church two, or is it not one body? Are we not but one loaf? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlindSeeker Posted August 17, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 70 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,117 Content Per Day: 0.53 Reputation: 448 Days Won: 5 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted August 17, 2009 I still have not heard why anyone would intentionally deny thier husband or wife the protections offered in legal marriage? A wife should have everything a husband has legally, that is part of two becoming one. As written in scriptures Marriage was indeed a public profession and celebration of the joining of two families and two people before God, legally, spiritually and physically. De 24:1 When a man hath taken a wife, and married her, and it come to pass that she find no favour in his eyes, because he hath found some uncleanness in her: then let him write her a bill of divorcement, and give it in her hand, and send her out of his house. It would indeed seem that marriage is more than a mutual consent to live and sleep together . . . else why the need of written record to end it? Because it serves for public notice of that which was publicly joined in covenant has be annulled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlindSeeker Posted August 17, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 70 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,117 Content Per Day: 0.53 Reputation: 448 Days Won: 5 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted August 17, 2009 I still have not heard why anyone would intentionally deny thier husband or wife the protections offered in legal marriage? A wife should have everything a husband has legally, that is part of two becoming one. As written in scriptures Marriage was indeed a public profession and celebration of the joining of two families and two people before God, legally, spiritually and physically. When I met my wife I was backslidden. We fell in love and moved in together. After I came back to Christ I began talking to her about getting legally married. She said she didn't want to because all her friends that got married got divorced. A Christian friend told me I had to leave her because what we were doing was sin. That's when I sat down and really studied what the bible had to say about this. I've still been trying to get my wife to legally marry me ever since. At one point she told me if I paid of all my debts and saved ten grand she would do it. Well I did that and she still wouldn't! Frankly I just don't get her objection to the formality anymore. In all ways our lives together are absolutely no different than any other legally married couple. We have joint bank accounts and everything we own we own in common. We are committed to being together for the rest of our lives. It's a sad commentary on our culture (including our Christian subculture) that even formal legal marriage means next to nothing. People, including lots of Christians, divorce at the drop of a hat. So what good is the formality if your heart is not really committed? And if your heart is truly committed why the need of the formality? Marriage isn't a piece of paper--it is a state of mind. IMHO. I can agree to the extent that I do not feel a licensing of the state be required for a legal covenant effectually to join a man and a woman as husband and wife. But because of the symbolic nature of our union as such I feel public affirmation profitable where possible . . . since your not stranded on a desert island lol. I invite you to read an old thread on mine on The Homosexual's Error . . ., Why God created us male and female At the least you would gain understanding of my position and why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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