One Way Posted July 13, 2004 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 728 Content Per Day: 0.10 Reputation: 10 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/10/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted July 13, 2004 I don't wanna get too into this, but, when studied a bit more carefullt it is quite clear that Paul is indeed not a sexist, but can fairly easily be construed as one. Yup. And since this is the case, then the problem won't be solved by choosing one Bible version over another. No matter which Bible you use, everyone still neds a teacher. I would disagree with that statement, Steve, about needing a man to teach you. The Holy Spirit is sufficient. 1Jo 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him. The anointing we have received is the indwelling of Christ and His Spirit within us. He will guide us into all truth. Joh 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted July 13, 2004 Share Posted July 13, 2004 I don't wanna get too into this, but, when studied a bit more carefullt it is quite clear that Paul is indeed not a sexist, but can fairly easily be construed as one. Yup. And since this is the case, then the problem won't be solved by choosing one Bible version over another. No matter which Bible you use, everyone still neds a teacher. I would disagree with that statement, Steve, about needing a man to teach you. The Holy Spirit is sufficient. 1Jo 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him. The anointing we have received is the indwelling of Christ and His Spirit within us. He will guide us into all truth. Joh 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. This is true, one can be taught by the Holy Spirit, but keep in mind that teaching is also a gift of the Spirit, and God has called some Christians to be teachers according to Ephesians 4. Furthermore, we are told to heed wise counsel all throughout the book of Proverbs. To say that we do not human teachers is not at all accurate. God has put a leadership structure in the Church and has annointed people to bring forth riches from His Word. Every new Christian needs to be discipled by a mature well grounded Christian. If not, they fall into heresies and all kinds of false doctrines. Everyone needs a teacher in addition to being led by the Holy Spirit. One does not negate or cancel out the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One Way Posted July 13, 2004 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 728 Content Per Day: 0.10 Reputation: 10 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/10/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted July 13, 2004 I don't wanna get too into this, but, when studied a bit more carefullt it is quite clear that Paul is indeed not a sexist, but can fairly easily be construed as one. Yup. And since this is the case, then the problem won't be solved by choosing one Bible version over another. No matter which Bible you use, everyone still neds a teacher. I would disagree with that statement, Steve, about needing a man to teach you. The Holy Spirit is sufficient. 1Jo 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him. The anointing we have received is the indwelling of Christ and His Spirit within us. He will guide us into all truth. Joh 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. This is true, one can be taught by the Holy Spirit, but keep in mind that teaching is also a gift of the Spirit, and God has called some Christians to be teachers according to Ephesians 4. Furthermore, we are told to heed wise counsel all throughout the book of Proverbs. To say that we do not human teachers is not at all accurate. God has put a leadership structure in the Church and has annointed people to bring forth riches from His Word. Every new Christian needs to be discipled by a mature well grounded Christian. If not, they fall into heresies and all kinds of false doctrines. Everyone needs a teacher in addition to being led by the Holy Spirit. One does not negate or cancel out the other. I agree with what you said, God has called some to be Pastor-Teachers. But, the statement almost sounded "Watchtowerish" like you couldn't understand the Bible unless they explain it to you. I listen to several teachers on a regular basis and am greatly blessed by the fruit of their labors in the word! Amen! Sorry if my post sounded as if we should encourage "Lone-Ranger Christianity!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Called Posted July 13, 2004 Share Posted July 13, 2004 Here's another major ommission in the NIV... explain this one apart from the gnostic manuscripts. Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. Romans 8:1(NIV) Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. There is a footnote with this verse that says the following: People must choose between the way of the flesh or sinful nature and the way of the Spirit. See, it wasn't completely omitted, it is still in there in a footnote. Romans 8:4 (NIV) In order that the righteous requirements of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit. That sounds just like the KJV of that verse. Nothing omitted there. I really don't want to get into a KJV only debate, I just wanted to clarify what you put. I actually just went to lunch and bought me "The Message" Bible to go along with my Bible Studies, I like reading KJV, NKJV, NIV, NLT and the Message. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truseek Posted July 13, 2004 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 34 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 344 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/29/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/20/1982 Share Posted July 13, 2004 (edited) NIV Omissions: Matthew 23:12-16 KJV: 12 And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted. 13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in. 14 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation. 15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves. 16 Woe unto you, ye blind guides, which say, Whosoever shall swear by the temple, it is nothing; but whosoever shall swear by the gold of the temple, he is a debtor! NIV 12 For whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted. 13 "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the kingdom of heaven in men's faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to. 14-missing 15 "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as you are. 16 "Woe to you, blind guides! You say, 'If anyone swears by the temple, it means nothing; but if anyone swears by the gold of the temple, he is bound by his oath.' Mark 11:22-26 KJV 22 And Jesus answering saith unto them, Have faith in God. 23 For verily I say unto you, That whosoever shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he saith. 24 Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them. 25 And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses. 26 But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses. NIV 22 "Have faith in God," Jesus answered. 23 "I tell you the truth, if anyone says to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it will be done for him. 24 Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours. 25 And when you stand praying, if you hold anything against anyone, forgive him, so that your Father in heaven may forgive you your sins." 26-missing John 5:1-5 KJV 1 After this there was a feast of the Jews; and Jesus went up to Jerusalem. 2 Now there is at Jerusalem by the sheep market a pool, which is called in the Hebrew tongue Bethesda, having five porches. 3 In these lay a great multitude of impotent folk, of blind, halt, withered, waiting for the moving of the water. 4 For an angel went down at a certain season into the pool, and troubled the water: whosoever then first after the troubling of the water stepped in was made whole of whatsoever disease he had. 5 And a certain man was there, which had an infirmity thirty and eight years. NIV 5:1 Some time later, Jesus went up to Jerusalem for a feast of the Jews. 2 Now there is in Jerusalem near the Sheep Gate a pool, which in Aramaic is called Bethesda and which is surrounded by five covered colonnades. 3 Here a great number of disabled people used to lie Edited July 13, 2004 by truseek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Called Posted July 13, 2004 Share Posted July 13, 2004 I am reading the intro to The Message Bible and do you know what the guy who paraphrased says? It says "And at some point along the way, you may find it helpful to get a standard study Bible to facilitate further study." It also says that it is not intended to replace study Bibles, it is to get people who won't read the BIble interested in reading it. I thought that was interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orr v'emet Posted July 13, 2004 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 26 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,672 Content Per Day: 0.23 Reputation: 11 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/12/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted July 13, 2004 truseek, I appreciate you taking the time to list those passages and note what was omitted. Let me also so that my study bible has references to this "ommitted' passages and has them stated in full under reference notes or in the study section along with an explanation of why it is not in the main text. I also have to say that I will be more aware of verses that are ommitted in the main text. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmwhalen Posted July 13, 2004 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 80 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 997 Content Per Day: 0.14 Reputation: 7 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/25/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted July 13, 2004 A serious comment that I would hope would be considered, for we serve a God of reason(Isaiah 1:18): I am under the assumption, which I feel is a reasonable assumption, given the depth/insight of many of the posts on the boards, that there are many rational, reasonable, and prudent believers on this board. Given this, I still would ask you to prayerfully consider how any rational, reasonable, prudent person can come to the conclusion that there is no difference between the King James Bible and the NIV. Some of the verses are total opposites, other verses are simply not saying the same thing. Many may contend that these differences do not affect "fundamental Christian doctrine". I would say 1.that this is a debatable point-there are many deletions in the NIV, which are not provided here, and not discussed here, that do affect doctrine, and 2.if the King James Bible and the NIV do not agree on these "simple" verses, what confidence can we have in their ability to present God's inspired, preserved, inerrant word on more important, eternal matters? These 2 both cannot be the Word of God. This is not possible. I understand that the question is " Which one do you think is better for a new Christian". Is it not more important not to ask which is "better', for implied in that question is the notion that we do not have "the best", but MOST IMPORTANTLY, should not our criteria, the question be , "What is the word of God that a new Christian should read?"That's seems pretty simple to me. And what we "prefer" should not be the standard. After all, even though I may "prefer" the NIV, if it is not the word of God, why read it? Examples-these simple verses do not say the same thing, and contradict each other. If people contend they do,then the English language means nothing and we should all "pack it in and go home": KJB: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One Way Posted July 13, 2004 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 728 Content Per Day: 0.10 Reputation: 10 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/10/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted July 13, 2004 The one you listed had also come to my mind (remember that I read the NIV so I still have some of it memorized, although I don't own one anymore) KJB: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Called Posted July 13, 2004 Share Posted July 13, 2004 I read the KJV, NKJV, NIV, NLT and the Message and I live a Holy, sanctified, victorious, spirit-filled life, whod a thunk it? I actually got saved by reading a version other than KJV! Whod a thunk it! WOW! To think that God isn't boxed in by man's translation of the Bible, whod a thunk it! Sorry, I am being a smary pants! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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