Guest man Posted September 13, 2009 Share Posted September 13, 2009 The body you have now will be resurrected, but it will also go through changes. There will be no deformities. Returning to that scripture in 1 Thessalonians, when Christ returns, the souls of departed saints will return with him and will be reunited with their bodies, which will be raised in incorruption. The bodies will come up out of the graves. Those who are alive and remain will instantly be transformed and meet the Lord in the air. You will have the same body, but it won't be as it is today. It will be like the body Jesus had after his resurrection. Let me ask you a question. Did Jesus physically rise from the grave, or was it just his spirit? The reason I want you to think about that is because if he physically rose, it was obvious he went through serious changes. His disciples didn't even recognize him at first. Remember how he appeared to two of the disciples as they journeyed to Emmaus, and they didn't recognize him? In Luke 24:30-31, he ate with them, and then simply vanished out of their sight. Later on in verse 36-40, Jesus appeared to his disciples, and they were fearful because they "supposed that they had seen a spirit." In verse 39 and 40, Jesus said "Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have. And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet." Jesus doesn't mention having blood, but does mention flesh and bones. This was his actual body, but it had gone through a transformation. He was now able to appear and dissapear, which we are not able to do today. No, I don't know exactly what kind of changes the body will go through, but it will be the same body transformed into a glorified body like Jesus had. John 4 24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. 1 Timothy 1 17 Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen. 2 Corinthians 4 4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them. 1 John 3 2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. What is God?.....John 4 In what form does He exist?.....1 Timothy 1 Christ is the image of who?.....2 Corinthians 4 What form will we have in eternity?.....1 John 3 God is a Spirit, but God came down to this world and took on the form of man. Jesus died a physical death, and physically rose from the dead. You asked me some questions, but never answered mine about whether or not Jesus physically rose from the dead? I already showed you how his body was transformed. It didn't remain in the grave. Accrording to Genesis, man was created in the image of God, so your question over whose image Christ is in does nothing to validate your argument. In heaven, we will have a form similar to the one Jesus had after his resurrection. Actually, if we died today, our spirit would be in heaven, and our body would be in the grave. After Jesus returns, then we will have a body like Jesus did, but don't forget, after that comes the millenial reign which is on earth, followed by a new heaven and a new earth. Ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fez Posted September 13, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 683 Topics Per Day: 0.12 Content Count: 11,128 Content Per Day: 1.99 Reputation: 1,352 Days Won: 54 Joined: 02/03/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/07/1952 Share Posted September 13, 2009 No, I get your point. I just don't see how one's body is taken care of as being symbolic of anything. I don't see people getting a message out of the burial. You may not, but I do. Someone else may say that they don't understand how a person being submerged in water can be symbolic of the death of the old man and resurrection of the new man, but that doesn't make them right, just because they can't understand it. I have already explained the symbolism. I even agreed with a portion of an article someone else posted that made the same point. Many of us do see the symbolism in a proper Christian burial, just like there are some atheists that see the symbolism in choosing cremation. Butero, with all due respect, I have a problem with comparing what to do with your dead body too baptism. Baptism is commanded. Burial is not. ~~ By the way - do you believe Joseph sinned by having his father Jacob embalmed after the fashion of the Egyptians? Genesis 50 The point I was making was the importance of sending the correct message through symbolism. I could just as easily have chosen the symbolism in the Lord's Supper. We partake of the bread and wine in memory of the Lord's body and blood. Someone could decide they don't like bread and wine and choose something entirely differen't to commemorate the Lord's finished work on the cross, and by doing that, the message is lost. Since partaking of the Lord's supper is a command as well, let's look at something that isn't. Let's take a manger scene. We set them up to show the world we believe in Christ. Some however turn them into something secular by placing Santa Claus at the manger and other secular things to show that they celebrate the holiday of Christmas, but don't take that whole Jesus thing serious. It all has to do with conveying our faith or lack of faith by what we do. And no, I don't believe Joseph sinned by having his Father Jacob embalmed. If anything, there was symbolism used here. Jacob desired to be buried in Canaan, because he believed God's promise that it would be future Israel. Joseph also desired to have his bones buried in Canaan after the Jews moved there. That was symbolic of his faith that God would give them the land promised to Abraham. A person who is embalmed is still buried. In addition, I am not claiming that cremation is a sin. What I am saying is that it is sending the wrong signal to others about what we believe. Well I am glad we got that straight. Burial is symbolic, but not required by any scripture, written or implied, and cremation is not a sin. Breaking Bread however is scriptural and very symbolic, as Jesus made it so. And if a church uses grape juice instead of wine, because it has recovering alcoholics in it's congregation, I don't think it matters a jot. Jesus knows the heart of the person breaking bread, and that is what counts the most to Him. ( I have refused the bread and wine before because I knew at that time my heart was not in the right place, and Jesus understands that as well - rather denial to self than hypocricy) Mat 26:26 Now as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and after blessing it broke it and gave it to the disciples, and said, "Take, eat; this is my body." Mat 26:27 And he took a cup, and when he had given thanks he gave it to them, saying, "Drink of it, all of you, Mat 26:28 for this is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins. And as to the last sentence of your quote, please do not make a general statement in that you use the word we, please rather substitute it for "what I believe", because I believe that I no longer live under the law, I live under the grace and favor of Christ, and how He receives my soul has nothing to do with if I was stuffed, planted, copped and diced, or burned. Because He loves me you see. Blessings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smalcald Posted September 14, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 32 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 5,258 Content Per Day: 0.76 Reputation: 42 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/16/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/22/1960 Share Posted September 14, 2009 How about funerals? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fez Posted September 14, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 683 Topics Per Day: 0.12 Content Count: 11,128 Content Per Day: 1.99 Reputation: 1,352 Days Won: 54 Joined: 02/03/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/07/1952 Share Posted September 14, 2009 How about funerals? They are Ok as they go, but I would rather go to a ball game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smalcald Posted September 14, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 32 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 5,258 Content Per Day: 0.76 Reputation: 42 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/16/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/22/1960 Share Posted September 14, 2009 But should not the Church as our Body be involved in every part of our life? Funerals if done properly are very strong times of witness. We are not to fear like the heathens and pagans who have no hope, but our funeral celebrations should look forward to our life with Christ and the assurance we have of everlasting life. The body is not to be despised, God gave us this gift and yes it is temporary and will return to dust. Yeah I would rather go to a ballgame also, in fact that is where most people would rather be on Sunday also, but we live in a pagan culture in the US and we are called to be a little different. Why do you think cremation with no funerals are what most atheists prefer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fez Posted September 14, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 683 Topics Per Day: 0.12 Content Count: 11,128 Content Per Day: 1.99 Reputation: 1,352 Days Won: 54 Joined: 02/03/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/07/1952 Share Posted September 14, 2009 But should not the Church as our Body be involved in every part of our life? Funerals if done properly are very strong times of witness. We are not to fear like the heathens and pagans who have no hope, but our funeral celebrations should look forward to our life with Christ and the assurance we have of everlasting life. The body is not to be despised, God gave us this gift and yes it is temporary and will return to dust. Yeah I would rather go to a ballgame also, in fact that is where most people would rather be on Sunday also, but we live in a pagan culture in the US and we are called to be a little different. Why do you think cremation with no funerals are what most atheists prefer? Oh, nonesense! My mom was cremated, but the service at church was moving, scriptural, tearful, and everything it should have been. We honored God for her life! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fez Posted September 14, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 683 Topics Per Day: 0.12 Content Count: 11,128 Content Per Day: 1.99 Reputation: 1,352 Days Won: 54 Joined: 02/03/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/07/1952 Share Posted September 14, 2009 Hey I found this while reading !:- Ecc 3:19 For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity. Ecc 3:20 All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again. Ecc 3:21 Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth? Case closed, move on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smalcald Posted September 15, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 32 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 5,258 Content Per Day: 0.76 Reputation: 42 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/16/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/22/1960 Share Posted September 15, 2009 What did the ancient Jew's do for burial and funerals? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Openly Curious Posted September 15, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 55 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,568 Content Per Day: 0.68 Reputation: 770 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/18/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted September 15, 2009 Hey I found this while reading !:- Ecc 3:19 For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity. Ecc 3:20 All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again. Ecc 3:21 Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth? Case closed, move on! Fez, What is your interpretation of this scripture [Ecc 3:19-21] that you have given us to ponder. I am very curious in how you see these scripture in light of cremation as well. oc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hillsong_girl Posted September 18, 2009 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 18 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 139 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/18/2008 Status: Offline Share Posted September 18, 2009 I support cremation. I either want to be cremated or have a natural burial...in the very far, far future...not any time soon!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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