ellarose Posted September 9, 2009 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 388 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/03/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/02/1989 Author Share Posted September 9, 2009 I have a question for those who do believe in the operation of the gifts today. Does anyone believe that they ceased, and started again in the early 20th century, around about the time of the Azure revival in 1906? An interesting book, 2000 Years of Charismatic Christianity by Eddie L. Hyatt, finds that there has never been a time since the first century that some Christian group didn't claim to speak in tongues and have the gifts in operation. The author chronicles many of the groups and events. Of course, the frequency of miracles did appear to decline after the church became an institution of Rome (I hope I am remembering this correctly). St Augustine in the 4th or 5th century wrote about the blind receiving their sight and the dead being raised, so cessation theory is out of the question. This is really interesting Neb, because I was under the impression that the operation of gifts were not recorded in church history from about the third century AD til about the end of the ninteenth century. Certainly the reaction to the Azure revival makes me suspect that not only were tongues not in operation frequently at that time, but that the christians at the time were not expecting them to appear. Which gifts were spoken of? I still believe the Holy Spirit gives people knowledge and wisdom and discernment today. I believe God was doing something in the early 20th century. You can google Agnes Ozman. She is given credit for --- hmmm --- many claim she is the first person in the 20th century to speak in tongues. This is the group that formed the core of the Azusa St revival a little later on. All of this started in Topeka, Kansas. You can also read some of John Wesley's writings. Pentecostals will see the gifts of the Spirit in operation in his ministry, at least miracles. Interestingly, cessessionists will not come to that conclusion I think the thing that set the Azusa St people apart was not miracles or the operation of the gifts, but doctrine. These were the first ones to proclaim that the gifts of the Spirit were still in operation today and it took off. One important observation, the Bible students in Topeka believed that speaking in tongues was the initial evidence of being baptized in the Spirit. The early Pentecostals never taught that you were not saved unless you spoke in tongues. That is a false, mutated doctrine. I'm not sure where it came from. Wow the dead being raised? I hadn't heard about anyone doing that since the apostles. Where can I read about it? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KC02 Posted September 9, 2009 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 447 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 14 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/25/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/26/1971 Share Posted September 9, 2009 Wow the dead being raised? I hadn't heard about anyone doing that since the apostles. Where can I read about it? Check your public library or amazon.com for City of God By Saint Augustine. You can read it online at books.google.com and even search within the book. It is public domain. There is a chapter called, "Concerning miracles ..." Check that one out. Or check out the book I mentioned earlier. A few of the early church fathers spoke about the dead being raised. It is interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted September 9, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.93 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted September 9, 2009 Makes a little more sense. I guess what I was asking is if what I had was just a normal kind of experience for someone who has the Holy Spirit dwelling within them. Does the Holy Spirit always operate within those 12 gifts, or is there a more general broader sense of just being led by the Holy Spirit? Well, Idon't hear the Lord that way. But I know of others who are spoken to that way. So, it is "normal" but not "common to all" - make sense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Durnan Posted September 9, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 121 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,782 Content Per Day: 0.36 Reputation: 49 Days Won: 1 Joined: 06/14/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted September 9, 2009 So why doesn't, say, a Ben Hinn, hold his next "Miracle Healing Crusade" in the hospital's ICU Ward, or better yet, in his local cemetery? Didn't Jesus & Apostles raise several dead individuals? Why the hesitation on healers' part? Very interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted September 9, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.93 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted September 9, 2009 (See what I meant Ella? ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellarose Posted September 9, 2009 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 388 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/03/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/02/1989 Author Share Posted September 9, 2009 Sorry Nebula I am still completely confused!! So many things I have never heard before! i need to read up on it all As for Benny Hinn.... Well I read another thread that started down that road... I have strong beliefs on the issue so I don't want to hurt anyone. Thanks for everyone's help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~candice~ Posted September 9, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 955 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 11,318 Content Per Day: 1.89 Reputation: 448 Days Won: 33 Joined: 12/16/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted September 9, 2009 Well, at least we made it to the four page mark before things went downhill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellarose Posted September 9, 2009 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 388 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/03/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/02/1989 Author Share Posted September 9, 2009 Well, at least we made it to the four page mark before things went downhill. Yes! That was secretly my aim P.S. I could only find one thread when i searched for cessationism! (where they started fighting over BH...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~candice~ Posted September 9, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 955 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 11,318 Content Per Day: 1.89 Reputation: 448 Days Won: 33 Joined: 12/16/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted September 9, 2009 Well, at least we made it to the four page mark before things went downhill. Yes! That was secretly my aim P.S. I could only find one thread when i searched for cessationism! (where they started fighting over BH...) Oh, I got pages and pages when I searched for cessationism, I wonder why we got different results . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellarose Posted September 9, 2009 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 388 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/03/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/02/1989 Author Share Posted September 9, 2009 Well, at least we made it to the four page mark before things went downhill. Yes! That was secretly my aim P.S. I could only find one thread when i searched for cessationism! (where they started fighting over BH...) Oh, I got pages and pages when I searched for cessationism, I wonder why we got different results . Hmm... I have to admit I am not great with computers... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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