Spiritual gifts of healing and tongues?

[ellarose]

Hi everyone, Ok so i'm sure this topic has been discussed on Worthy but i haven't been able to find it!

I've seen and heard a lot of people saying that the gifts of healing and speaking in tongues are still around today. I have also been told that in the times of Christ and the apostles there were so many spiritual gifts as a kind of sign that these were the apostles. Also a lot of people around here (australia) claim that if you can't speak in tongues you aren't a Christian and i know for a fact this is a lie.

"To each is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good. For to one is given through the Spirit the utterance of wisdom, and to another the utterance of knowledge according to the same Spirit, to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit, to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another the ability to distinguish between spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. All these are empowered by one and the same Spirit, who apportions to each one individually as he wills." 1 corinthians 12:7-11

"Do all possess gifts of healing? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret?" 1 Corinthians 12:30

But then

"Now I want you all to speak in tongues, but even more to prophesy. The one who prophesies is greater than the one who speaks in tongues, unless someone interprets, so that the church may be built up. " 1 corinthians 14:5

So I have seen a lot of people faking tongues and healings (such as many people in the word of faith movement) but never actually authentic, with interpreters for those speaking in tongues, etc. Also I don't know why God would allow someone to speak in tongues without an interpreter to interpret?

Is there biblical evidence to prove that these gifts are still here or are not still here? I don't know of anywhere that stated these particular gifts of the spirit are gone, but I don't understand why many people would believe the gifts have ceased if they haven't... ?

Anyway, sorry if this post doesn't make sense, it's hard to make my thoughts understandable!

Thanks!

Your sister in Christ, Ella rose

[~Shalhevet~]

I'm unsure about the tongues, but I know for certain Christ still heals. He has healed me.

[~candice~]

Do a search for cessationism using the worthy search function, and a whole list of threads on this topic will pop up .

[nebula]

Hi, ellarose!

Yes, it has been discussed before. And a lot of emotions and hurt feelings tend to abound.

Basically, there are people here that represent every view you have presented. (So you can imagine what someone who believes the gifts have ceased would have to say to someone like me who has the gift of speaking in tongues. )

I personally do not see any Scripture that implies they would or should cease. The favorite verse people have for that is the one in 1 Cor. 13, about how when "that which is perfect" comes "the imperfect" will be taken away - and that the written Cannon of Scripture is "that which is perfect" and the gifts are "the imperfect."

I personally fail to see the connection between what Paul is saying and this interpretation. Paul is in the middle of talking about LOVE - so where does the idea of the written Cannon come from? And how could that which the Spirit gives or gave be imperfect?

I also disagree with the notion that tongues is evidence of salvation. When compiling the Scriptures that speak of how to be saved, I don't see "speaking in tongues" being mentioned.

Paul said we should desire spiritual gifts (1 Co. 1:4). He also stated he was thankful for his gift of tongues (1 Cor. 14:18). I too am thankful for my gift of tongues. Additionally, he stated we should seek the gift of prophecy, that we may edify the body (1 Cor. Cor. 14:1, 19).

Stating that we should pursue love does not was not meant to override or demean the gifts. It simply means our pursuit and use of the gifts should be done in and with love.

Blessings!

[Fez]

The tongues thing confuses me a bit as well. I hear people talk in tongues at churc,h and strangly enough I have done it once myself while I was praying one night by myself, just worshiping Jesus and I "ran out of words". Spurgeon said that there are "prayers that break the backs of words", and encouraged us to pray in tongues.

I believe it is biblical, but I have always had two concerns. One is that if there is no one to interpret when someone is talking in tongues, how do we know who the person talking in tongues is talking, or praying to, and what are they saying? I see an inherent danger in this.

The second concern is that I have heard people praying and very often the "words" or sounds are identical. I believe that this is aquired learning and not praying in tongues.

So although I believe that true praying in tongues is biblical and does happen, I have never seen interpretation, and this bothers me, unless I am missing something.

Healing I have seen, often, and this I believe in completely, although I have never healed anyone myself by the laying on of hands, although I have, like all of us prayed for healing of hundreds of people over the years

[~candice~]

I have a question for those who do believe in the operation of the gifts today. Does anyone believe that they ceased, and started again in the early 20th century, around about the time of the Azure revival in 1906?

[nebula]

One is that if there is no one to interpret when someone is talking in tongues, how do we know who the person talking in tongues is talking, or praying to, and what are they saying? I see an inherent danger in this.

I appreciate your concern, Fez.

All I can say is that when someone speaks in tongues, it is either:

- the gift of the Spirit

- a demon

- the person babbling

As the speaker of tongues, the person is simply doing this in faith that what is coming out of their mouths is of the Spirit.

If it concerns you, you could quietly bind the voice of any demons and bind bind vain babbling (in the name of Jesus), and then have faith that your prayer is effective. If the person ceases when you do so, chances are what they were doing was not of the Spirit. If they continue, chances are it is indeed the Spirit.

Unless you have the gift of discernment over such, there really is no other way I can think of.

The second concern is that I have heard people praying and very often the "words" or sounds are identical. I believe that this is aquired learning and not praying in tongues.

Sometimes when I am praying in "with my understanding" as Paul put it, as I am trying to be sensitive to how the Spirit would have me pray, there are times when I am repeating the same word or phrase over and over again. I am just "moved" (for lack of a better term) to pray/repeat this.

Examples:

Grace! Grace! Grace! Grace! Grace!

Thank-You, Lord! Thank-You Lord! Thank-You Lord!

Purify! Purify! Purify!

Make us holy! Make us holy! Make us holy!

So perhaps the same thing is going on with these people you speak of?

[nebula]

I have a question for those who do believe in the operation of the gifts today. Does anyone believe that they ceased, and started again in the early 20th century, around about the time of the Azure revival in 1906?

I don't.

I have read a book where someone researched Christian writings throughout the centuries and saw Christian leaders and teachers and apologeticists speaking of the gifts being in operation.

[40bill]

I would think the miracles still happen, we just don't recognize them. I always read that all gifts of the spirit were of a purpose...not just to draw attention to one person. The first instance of speaking in tongues was at a time when there were people 'from many lands' gathered together....and they heard the disciples speaking in their own particular tongue. I would be curious as to a person speaking when there was none to hear....but that's just me...

I don't believe there is a cessation of miracle. I do remember that Jesus could do little in his own hometown in the way of miracles 'because of their unbelief'....we have to be open to accept the gifts God wishes to give.

[godrulz]

There is no exegetical basis for cessationism. The person/work/gifts of the Holy Spirit are as valid and valuable for the Church Age today as they were in the beginning. They have waxed/waned/revived/restored in various seasons depending on the seeking of the Church and openness. They will cease at the end of the Church Age (I Jn. 3:2), not at the beginning just because we have a Book, the Word of God. If we are going to dismiss tongues, we will need to dismiss other gifts in the same lists that all believers still affirm today (ministry gifts, giving, administration, etc.).

I Cor. 12-14 is about the use and misuse of spiritual gifts, not their supposed cessation (I Cor. 13 is about using them in love, not about their imminent cessation). Paul values gifts, including tongues and encourages them, with proper motive and use. Acts 2 is not preaching in tongues. Tongues are for praise and worship and prayer. They are the initial, physical evidence when one has another experience/infilling with the Holy Spirit for empowerment (Acts 1:8; Acts 2:4). This experience is intended for all and is for self-edification, etc. (I Cor. 14:4). This is the classical vs charismatic distinctive/understanding.

When walking through I Cor. 14, there is a difference between private, devotional tongues for self-edification, prayer, etc. intended for all believers and a public expression for corporate/church edification that is only exercised by some (not all people speak out in church with interpretation, but all can speak privately if they have it) and must be accompanied by the gift of interpretation in order to bring corporate edification in an extant language. I have had devotional tongues for decades, but have never exercised a public gift with interpretation, but others in our church have (few vs all).

Tongues are a blessing for believers and a sign for unbelievers. Hundreds of millions of godly Christians move in this experience (Pentecostals are largest and fastest growing evangelical movement worldwide; the largest group, Catholics, also have a smaller charismatic element). Seek the Giver, not the gift. There are fleshly and demonic counterfeits, but this does not negate the genuine.

There are many Pentecostal, charismatic groups from the lunatic fringe to the conservative. United Pentecostal Church, for e.g., is legalistic, modalistic (deny trinity), and make tongues essential for salvation based on proof text Acts 2:38. This is a false view since salvation is by grace through faith in Christ, not by exercising gifts. They are divisive and bring confusion, though zealous Christians. All believers receive all of the person of the Spirit at conversion. The Pentecostal experience is biblical, intended for all, evidenced by personal tongues, but not experienced by all for a variety of human reasons (doubt, unbelief, sin, bad teaching, etc.).