leoxiii Posted November 15, 2009 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 512 Content Per Day: 0.10 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/30/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/25/1955 Author Share Posted November 15, 2009 The Church has been given the Great Commission by Jesus Himself...if that is what you mean...otherwise you will have to show me the Scripture. Matthew 28:16 And the eleven disciples went into Galilee, unto the mountain where Jesus had appointed them. 17 And seeing him they adored: but some doubted. 18 And Jesus coming, spoke to them, saying: All power is given to me in heaven and in earth. 19 Going therefore, teach ye all nations; baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. 20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and behold I am with you all days, even to the consummation of the world. 18 "All power"... He received from his Father all power in heaven and in earth: and in virtue of this power, he sends them (even as his Father sent him, St. John 20. 21) to teach and disciple, not one, but all nations; and instruct them in all truths: and that he may assist them effectually in the execution of this commission, he promises to be with them, not for three or four hundred years only, but all days, even to the consummation of the world. Luke 10:16 He that heareth you, heareth me; and he that despiseth you, despiseth me; and he that despiseth me, despiseth him that sent me. If Christ is with those whom He has commissioned to speak, and if those whom He has commissioned speak as if it is Christ Himself speaking, how can they possible be speaking error when speaking on His behalf? Is Christ not here saying that those who speak on His behalf will in fact speak infallibly on His behalf? Otherwise, if, as you contend, those who have been commissioned to speak on Christ's behalf do indeed speak with some error, then have not the Scriptures testified that it is as if Christ Himself is speaking the error? My friend I have got to say that is a really strange way of trying to work things out...I can't say I have really thought about it in such a way, which seems like stringing verses together and coming up with a theory and then trying to fit facts to uphold the theory (bit like evolution ) You say regarding Luke 10:16:- Is Christ not here saying that those who speak on His behalf will in fact speak infallibly on His behalf? I don't know how you work this out....in the context of the Scripture, the L-rd has just told 70 disciples to go ahead to the villages He will visit, and to proclaim certain things....He has given them a very precise directive for this specific task....it is not correct to then take this and assume all from then on in that speak on His behalf will speak infallibly. Just pause and think about it for a bit....often G-d works inspite of us....but he chose these frail vessels to contain something of His glory. And on Mount Tabor He spoke only to the 11 Apostles. Why, then, do you take His words to apply to yourself? The kind of reasoning that says we may preach error on behalf of Him who is Truth itself, just boggles my mind. God commissioning men that will preach error is one of the most absurd things I have ever heard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leoxiii Posted November 15, 2009 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 512 Content Per Day: 0.10 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/30/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/25/1955 Author Share Posted November 15, 2009 Since the Bile is clear that all have sinned and fallen short, scripture clearly teaches Mary sinned. And Jesus took His flesh from Her (Gal. 4:4) So, how is it possible for God Incarnate to have sinful flesh under the dominion of the devil? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSLewis Posted November 15, 2009 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 34 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 828 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 20 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/28/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/28/1980 Share Posted November 15, 2009 The Jews did in fact have a creed - and the midrash to understand the Torah. Only those with authority could interpret the Torah so when Jesus taught in the temple he spoke with authority and people were amazed because here is a new interpretation of the Torah. Religion is the system of beliefs that is held by a community. The creeds were necessary at a time when gnosticism threatened to destroy the faith- the creeds themselves were more of a great compromise than orthodox decision. Just as there was much debate over which books should be included in the canon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kross Posted November 15, 2009 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 44 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,773 Content Per Day: 0.31 Reputation: 51 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/04/2008 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/27/1957 Share Posted November 15, 2009 But, how is it possible for the divine Nature of Jesus to be one in being with the human nature of Jesus when the human nature of Jesus was under the dominion of the devil? who told you He was under the devil? No one is under the dominion of the devil until they sin Jesus took His flesh from Mary. Mary was a sinner. Therefore, the flesh that Jesus took was under the dominion of the devil. How is that possible? JESUS didn't take HIS flesh from Mary, HE was formed in Mary's womb. Mary was a sinner (you got that right) "for all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of GOD" JESUS flesh was under HIS domination. Because HE was able. IF, in your logic, parents being sinners results in offspring whose flesh is dominated by Satan, than Mary's parents were sinless also? And their parents? and their parents? How far back do you have to go? Adam and Eve? (before the fall of course) It is the spirit that leads a person into sin through the flesh. We are all born with living flesh and dead spirits. Dead spirits are drawn to sin and the flesh follows. JESUS was born with a THE SPIRIT living in HIM. Thus HE had power from GOD to overcome HIS flesh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted November 15, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.93 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted November 15, 2009 Jesus took His flesh from Mary. If not, why the need to be birthed in the first place? Mary was a sinner. "For all have sinned , and come short of the glory of God;" (Rom. 3:23) Is there any Scripture that proclaims otherwise? Therefore, the flesh that Jesus took was under the dominion of the devil. How is that possible? The problem, leoxii, is that you are arguing technicalities that the Scriptures never address. How is sin/the sin nature passed down? The Bible does not say! There are people who argue it comes from the male (Adam's) seed, thus any woman's seed is pure, thus Mary does not need to be uncorrupted in order for Jesus to be uncorrupted. Can you disprove that claim with Scripture? Really, I've seen "how sin is passed down" arguments before and the arguers spend a lot of time going around in circles. The Lord simply did not reveal to us the technicalities. He just said that we are in a fallen state, all creation is was subject to bondage (Romans 8:19-22), the whole world is, to use your phrase, under the dominion of the devil ("the whole world lies in the power of the evil one." 1 John 5:19). As I mentioned before: Hebrews 4:15 - For we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but One who has been tempted in all things as we are, yet without sin. If He was in divine flesh, how could temptation have been temptation for Him, thus how could He "sympathize with our weaknesses"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted November 15, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.75 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.93 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted November 15, 2009 So, how is it possible for God Incarnate to have sinful flesh under the dominion of the devil? How is it possible for Mary to not have had sinful flesh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest yod Posted November 15, 2009 Share Posted November 15, 2009 If, then, these traditions were Jewish traditions, where in Paul's written letters does he pass on Jewish traditions? Who created the jews? Who gave them the scriptures, the covenants, the blessings, the land and kingdom of Israel? EVERY TRADITION that Paul passed on was a jewish one, whether human sensitivities approve or not. Jesus took His flesh from Mary. Mary was a sinner. Therefore, the flesh that Jesus took was under the dominion of the devil. How is that possible? How is that possible? Really? It's rather simple. Mary's flesh, like yours and mine, come from the dirt. Can dirt sin of itself? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted November 15, 2009 Share Posted November 15, 2009 Jesus took His flesh from Mary. Mary was a sinner. Therefore, the flesh that Jesus took was under the dominion of the devil. How is that possible? Jesus did not have an earthly father. Sin passes through the father, not through the mother. Jesus' flesh was sinless, but Mary had an earthly Father making her alleged immaculate conception impossible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSLewis Posted November 15, 2009 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 34 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 828 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 20 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/28/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/28/1980 Share Posted November 15, 2009 Jesus took His flesh from Mary. Mary was a sinner. Therefore, the flesh that Jesus took was under the dominion of the devil. How is that possible? Jesus did not have an earthly father. Sin passes through the father, not through the mother. Jesus' flesh was sinless, but Mary had an earthly Father making her alleged immaculate conception impossible. Through the semen? So cloned embryos would be sinless? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kross Posted November 15, 2009 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 44 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,773 Content Per Day: 0.31 Reputation: 51 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/04/2008 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/27/1957 Share Posted November 15, 2009 Jesus took His flesh from Mary. Mary was a sinner. Therefore, the flesh that Jesus took was under the dominion of the devil. How is that possible? Jesus did not have an earthly father. Sin passes through the father, not through the mother. Jesus' flesh was sinless, but Mary had an earthly Father making her alleged immaculate conception impossible. Through the semen? So cloned embryos would be sinless? There are those who believe they would be soulless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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