lekh l'kha Posted November 16, 2009 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 27 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 830 Content Per Day: 0.15 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/14/2009 Status: Offline Share Posted November 16, 2009 your materialist dogma comes from the likes of Paul Jablonowski and he remains in error. Isn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lekh l'kha Posted November 16, 2009 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 27 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 830 Content Per Day: 0.15 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/14/2009 Status: Offline Share Posted November 16, 2009 Before I jump into this conversation, can you tell me where you ascertain that this discussion of sacrifices in Ezekiel is in the millenial age? I see that there will be a re-establishment of sacrifices in the near future, the Sanhedrin is already reforming and going down that path, and that these sacrifices will be put to an end by anti-christ. I have always linked Ezekiel's prophecy to this time, not the millenial period. Since I am ignorant, for the most part, I do not want to step into this conversation without understanding the foundation for the ideas presented. 1. The temple the Jews plan to build before the return of Christ and while they're still in denial of Christ, and the sacrifices the priests will perform before the return of Christ and while they are still in denial of Christ, will not be the temple Christ builds or commands to be built after His return. The soon-to-come temple that the unbelieving Jews now plan to build will indeed be an affront to Christ, because they deny Him completely, and deny the fact that the veil was torn 2,000 years ago when Jesus shed His blood and died. Also, the temple the Jews plan to build before the return of Christ will probably share the temple-mount with the mosque that now stands there, and there are Jews and Muslims who are already calling this temple-mount with its mosque and adjacent Jewish temple the fulfillment of the temple that will be called "a house of prayer for all nations" - yet both structures represent denial of the Son of God, and will be an abomination - if you ask me, possibly? the abomination of Mat.24: 15. 2. The temple described by Ezekiel is far, far too large to fit on the temple mount, without there being a drastic change in the topography of the area caused by an earthquake. 3. Ezekiel describes this temple after he describes the judgment of the seven Gentiles nations, the restoration of Israel to their land and to God, the attack of Gog against a Jewish people living in complete peace, safety and prosperity in their land of unwalled villages, and the judgment of Gog. It is only after prophesying all these things that Ezekiel begins to describe the temple. 4. Ezekiel also describes the allotment of the land to the twelve tribes of Israel while describing the temple, and the allotment of "the prince's" portion which stretches from the Mediterranean to the new temple, and from east of the new temple to the Dead Sea. The temple which the Jews now plan to build cannot fulfill Ezekiel's description if it is built, not by a long shot - bearing the dimensios of Ezekiel's description of the new temple in mind. I've stated my opinion - I'm not pretending that my opinion is fact. Lekh So, this takes place somewhere after Armageddon and before the time when there will be no more death? The 1,000 years of peace? Yes. I do not believe that gentile believers/Christians will be on Earth during the 1,000 years of peace. (not going to get into that) but, it does not seem impossible that Israel (whom I believe will be here) could be returned to the system of sacrifices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kross Posted November 16, 2009 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 44 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,773 Content Per Day: 0.31 Reputation: 51 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/04/2008 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/27/1957 Share Posted November 16, 2009 Horizoneast, Let's leave Ezekiel's temple aside for a while - I never said anything to you about Ezekiel's temple in my last post directed to you - but you brought Ezekiel's temple and the sacrifices into your reply to me on the previous page. But let's talk about what you said below: The church of God is the Israel of God Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kross Posted November 16, 2009 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 44 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,773 Content Per Day: 0.31 Reputation: 51 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/04/2008 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/27/1957 Share Posted November 16, 2009 Before I jump into this conversation, can you tell me where you ascertain that this discussion of sacrifices in Ezekiel is in the millenial age? I see that there will be a re-establishment of sacrifices in the near future, the Sanhedrin is already reforming and going down that path, and that these sacrifices will be put to an end by anti-christ. I have always linked Ezekiel's prophecy to this time, not the millenial period. Since I am ignorant, for the most part, I do not want to step into this conversation without understanding the foundation for the ideas presented. 1. The temple the Jews plan to build before the return of Christ and while they're still in denial of Christ, and the sacrifices the priests will perform before the return of Christ and while they are still in denial of Christ, will not be the temple Christ builds or commands to be built after His return. The soon-to-come temple that the unbelieving Jews now plan to build will indeed be an affront to Christ, because they deny Him completely, and deny the fact that the veil was torn 2,000 years ago when Jesus shed His blood and died. Also, the temple the Jews plan to build before the return of Christ will probably share the temple-mount with the mosque that now stands there, and there are Jews and Muslims who are already calling this temple-mount with its mosque and adjacent Jewish temple the fulfillment of the temple that will be called "a house of prayer for all nations" - yet both structures represent denial of the Son of God, and will be an abomination - if you ask me, possibly? the abomination of Mat.24: 15. 2. The temple described by Ezekiel is far, far too large to fit on the temple mount, without there being a drastic change in the topography of the area caused by an earthquake. 3. Ezekiel describes this temple after he describes the judgment of the seven Gentiles nations, the restoration of Israel to their land and to God, the attack of Gog against a Jewish people living in complete peace, safety and prosperity in their land of unwalled villages, and the judgment of Gog. It is only after prophesying all these things that Ezekiel begins to describe the temple. 4. Ezekiel also describes the allotment of the land to the twelve tribes of Israel while describing the temple, and the allotment of "the prince's" portion which stretches from the Mediterranean to the new temple, and from east of the new temple to the Dead Sea. The temple which the Jews now plan to build cannot fulfill Ezekiel's description if it is built, not by a long shot - bearing the dimensios of Ezekiel's description of the new temple in mind. I've stated my opinion - I'm not pretending that my opinion is fact. Lekh So, this takes place somewhere after Armageddon and before the time when there will be no more death? The 1,000 years of peace? Yes. I do not believe that gentile believers/Christians will be on Earth during the 1,000 years of peace. (not going to get into that) but, it does not seem impossible that Israel (whom I believe will be here) could be returned to the system of sacrifices. From what I read in Ezek, I can see where that could make sense. I am a firm believer that GOD will deal with Israel differently than Christians until the end of the millenium, at which time the "regrafting" will take place and we will all be of one heart, mind, and SPIRIT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lekh l'kha Posted November 16, 2009 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 27 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 830 Content Per Day: 0.15 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/14/2009 Status: Offline Share Posted November 16, 2009 Horizoneast, Let's leave Ezekiel's temple aside for a while - I never said anything to you about Ezekiel's temple in my last post directed to you - but you brought Ezekiel's temple and the sacrifices into your reply to me on the previous page. But let's talk about what you said below: The church of God is the Israel of God Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lekh l'kha Posted November 16, 2009 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 27 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 830 Content Per Day: 0.15 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/14/2009 Status: Offline Share Posted November 16, 2009 Before I jump into this conversation, can you tell me where you ascertain that this discussion of sacrifices in Ezekiel is in the millenial age? I see that there will be a re-establishment of sacrifices in the near future, the Sanhedrin is already reforming and going down that path, and that these sacrifices will be put to an end by anti-christ. I have always linked Ezekiel's prophecy to this time, not the millenial period. Since I am ignorant, for the most part, I do not want to step into this conversation without understanding the foundation for the ideas presented. 1. The temple the Jews plan to build before the return of Christ and while they're still in denial of Christ, and the sacrifices the priests will perform before the return of Christ and while they are still in denial of Christ, will not be the temple Christ builds or commands to be built after His return. The soon-to-come temple that the unbelieving Jews now plan to build will indeed be an affront to Christ, because they deny Him completely, and deny the fact that the veil was torn 2,000 years ago when Jesus shed His blood and died. Also, the temple the Jews plan to build before the return of Christ will probably share the temple-mount with the mosque that now stands there, and there are Jews and Muslims who are already calling this temple-mount with its mosque and adjacent Jewish temple the fulfillment of the temple that will be called "a house of prayer for all nations" - yet both structures represent denial of the Son of God, and will be an abomination - if you ask me, possibly? the abomination of Mat.24: 15. 2. The temple described by Ezekiel is far, far too large to fit on the temple mount, without there being a drastic change in the topography of the area caused by an earthquake. 3. Ezekiel describes this temple after he describes the judgment of the seven Gentiles nations, the restoration of Israel to their land and to God, the attack of Gog against a Jewish people living in complete peace, safety and prosperity in their land of unwalled villages, and the judgment of Gog. It is only after prophesying all these things that Ezekiel begins to describe the temple. 4. Ezekiel also describes the allotment of the land to the twelve tribes of Israel while describing the temple, and the allotment of "the prince's" portion which stretches from the Mediterranean to the new temple, and from east of the new temple to the Dead Sea. The temple which the Jews now plan to build cannot fulfill Ezekiel's description if it is built, not by a long shot - bearing the dimensios of Ezekiel's description of the new temple in mind. I've stated my opinion - I'm not pretending that my opinion is fact. Lekh So, this takes place somewhere after Armageddon and before the time when there will be no more death? The 1,000 years of peace? Yes. I do not believe that gentile believers/Christians will be on Earth during the 1,000 years of peace. (not going to get into that) but, it does not seem impossible that Israel (whom I believe will be here) could be returned to the system of sacrifices. From what I read in Ezek, I can see where that could make sense. I am a firm believer that GOD will deal with Israel differently than Christians until the end of the millenium, at which time the "regrafting" will take place and we will all be of one heart, mind, and SPIRIT. Well that's yet another angle to consider that I've never heard before - as though this thread hasn't given me enough "new angles" to consider But back it up with scripture, please (otherwise no-one has much to consider). Lekh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lekh l'kha Posted November 16, 2009 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 27 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 830 Content Per Day: 0.15 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/14/2009 Status: Offline Share Posted November 16, 2009 What you don't realize is that you are calling God a liar by your statement above: You are sadly mistaken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leoxiii Posted November 16, 2009 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 512 Content Per Day: 0.10 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/30/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/25/1955 Share Posted November 16, 2009 The church of God is the Israel of God. No, it isn't. Israel is the Israel of God. Luke 20:9 And he began to speak to the people this parable: A certain man planted a vineyard, and let it out to husbandmen: and he was abroad for a long time. 10 And at the season he sent a servant to the husbandmen, that they should give him of the fruit of the vineyard. Who, beating him, sent him away empty. 11 And again he sent another servant. But they beat him also, and treating him reproachfully, sent him away empty. 12 And again he sent the third: and they wounded him also, and cast him out. 13 Then the lord of the vineyard said: What shall I do? I will send my beloved son: it may be, when they see him, they will reverence him. 14 Whom when the husbandmen saw, they thought within themselves, saying: This is the heir, let us kill him, that the inheritance may be ours. 15 So casting him out of the vineyard, they killed him. What therefore will the lord of the vineyard do to them? 16 He will come, and will destroy these husbandmen, and will give the vineyard to others. Which they hearing, said to him: God forbid. 17 But he looking on them, said: What is this then that is written, The stone, which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner? 18 Whosoever shall fall upon that stone, shall be bruised: and upon whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder. 19 And the chief priests and the scribes sought to lay hands on him the same hour: but they feared the people, for they knew that he spoke this parable to them. The Vineyard is Israel. The Judaizers got the heave-ho and the Christians were given the Vineyard in their place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lekh l'kha Posted November 16, 2009 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 27 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 830 Content Per Day: 0.15 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/14/2009 Status: Offline Share Posted November 16, 2009 The church of God is the Israel of God. No, it isn't. Israel is the Israel of God. Luke 20:9 And he began to speak to the people this parable: A certain man planted a vineyard, and let it out to husbandmen: and he was abroad for a long time. 10 And at the season he sent a servant to the husbandmen, that they should give him of the fruit of the vineyard. Who, beating him, sent him away empty. 11 And again he sent another servant. But they beat him also, and treating him reproachfully, sent him away empty. 12 And again he sent the third: and they wounded him also, and cast him out. 13 Then the lord of the vineyard said: What shall I do? I will send my beloved son: it may be, when they see him, they will reverence him. 14 Whom when the husbandmen saw, they thought within themselves, saying: This is the heir, let us kill him, that the inheritance may be ours. 15 So casting him out of the vineyard, they killed him. What therefore will the lord of the vineyard do to them? 16 He will come, and will destroy these husbandmen, and will give the vineyard to others. Which they hearing, said to him: God forbid. 17 But he looking on them, said: What is this then that is written, The stone, which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner? 18 Whosoever shall fall upon that stone, shall be bruised: and upon whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder. 19 And the chief priests and the scribes sought to lay hands on him the same hour: but they feared the people, for they knew that he spoke this parable to them. The Vineyard is Israel. The Judaizers got the heave-ho and the Christians were given the Vineyard in their place. No - they were not given the Vineyard in their place. There was (and always has been) a remnant left who are still "the vineyard". Believing foreigners are joined to that remnant. Why do you twist it so? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lekh l'kha Posted November 16, 2009 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 27 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 830 Content Per Day: 0.15 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/14/2009 Status: Offline Share Posted November 16, 2009 And now back to Hebrews.... and back to another subject, which I've been praying a lot about because I was confused and sitting on the fence... "And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin." (Heb 10:17-18) "And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin." (Heb 10:17-18) "And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin." (Heb 10:17-18) "And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin." (Heb 10:17-18) "And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin." (Heb 10:17-18) "And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin." (Heb 10:17-18) "And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin." (Heb 10:17-18) "And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin." (Heb 10:17-18) "And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin." (Heb 10:17-18) "And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin." (Heb 10:17-18) Praise Jesus! As far as Ezekiel's temple is concerned - I can't see that the river flowing from under the threshold of the temple can be taken literally, nor the tress growing on each side of the river bearing fruit each month, whose leaves are for healing. But sorting out the literal from the figurative and the timing of Ezekiel's temple is too much for my fallible human mind to handle, and though I've asked the Lord these last few days and many times in the past to give me the understanding of it, in His wisdom the Lord has chosen not to - so I'm putting Ezekiel's temple back into the "pending the Lord's return" box where I had it in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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