OneLight Posted November 16, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.22 Reputation: 9,763 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted November 16, 2009 Salvation only comes through Christ, not baptism. What happens is when you make an outward profession or profession, your faith increases, so this can happen when baptized. As you can tell from my previous post, I was under the thought that You were referring to salvation and baptism were simultaneously. For that, I apologize if I was wrong ... was I? Acts 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? Rise up, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, invoking his name. The Scriptures cannot be more clear. Baptism in the Name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is an absolute necessity of salvation. It is Baptism in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, which makes the believer "born again". John 3:5 Jesus answered: Amen, amen I say to thee, unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. Titus 3:5 Not by the works of justice, which we have done, but according to his mercy, he saved us, by the laver of regeneration, and renovation of the Holy Ghost; Acts 2:38 But Peter said to them: Do penance, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ, for the remission of your sins: and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. In which of these verses of Scripture does it say that Baptism is apart from Christ, and not for the remission of sins? Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. Acts 2:21 And it shall come to pass That whoever calls on the name of the LORD Shall be saved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leoxiii Posted November 16, 2009 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 512 Content Per Day: 0.10 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/30/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/25/1955 Share Posted November 16, 2009 He uses a bible translation for the Roman Catholic Church ... Douay-Rheims, there are some changes to words that back the church doctrine. And you know that your own translation is free from bias because........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leoxiii Posted November 16, 2009 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 512 Content Per Day: 0.10 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/30/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/25/1955 Share Posted November 16, 2009 He uses a bible translation for the Roman Catholic Church ... Douay-Rheims, there are some changes to words that back the church doctrine. And you know that your own translation is free from bias because........... But why even use the Douay-Rheims when you have the Magisterium to think for you? Bait and switch doesn't work on me, my friend. If you would like to offer positive proof that your translation is free from all bias, then I am willing to look at it. If all you want to do is throw out ad hominems, then I dismiss them as easily as you throw them out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted November 16, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.22 Reputation: 9,763 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted November 16, 2009 He uses a bible translation for the Roman Catholic Church ... Douay-Rheims, there are some changes to words that back the church doctrine. And you know that your own translation is free from bias because........... Original Greek. I use the Interlinear bible as much as possible, especially when versions differ. To set your feelings at ease, the KJV and NKJV add to scripture just as much as I have noticed your Douay-Rheims changes words. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leoxiii Posted November 16, 2009 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 512 Content Per Day: 0.10 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/30/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/25/1955 Share Posted November 16, 2009 He uses a bible translation for the Roman Catholic Church ... Douay-Rheims, there are some changes to words that back the church doctrine. And you know that your own translation is free from bias because........... Original Greek. I use the Interlinear bible as much as possible, especially when versions differ. To set your feelings at ease, the KJV and NKJV add to scripture just as much as I have noticed your Douay-Rheims changes words. Languages do not translate word for word. They translate more like idea for idea. When someone makes a translation of the Bible, they choose the words in their own language that best express what they think the author is trying to say in the original language. There is no translation of the Bible in existence that does not add and subtract "words" from the Scriptures. For instance, Luther added the word "alone" in Romans 3:28 because, as he said, the verse did not make any sense in the German language without it. Now, suppose you have a guy living in the 20th century who goes to university to study Koine Greek, and an educated guy from the 2nd century who was raised from birth speaking Koine Greek as his first language. Who would you rely on to inform you what a difficult phrase in Koine Greek meant? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted November 16, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.22 Reputation: 9,763 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted November 16, 2009 He uses a bible translation for the Roman Catholic Church ... Douay-Rheims, there are some changes to words that back the church doctrine. And you know that your own translation is free from bias because........... Original Greek. I use the Interlinear bible as much as possible, especially when versions differ. To set your feelings at ease, the KJV and NKJV add to scripture just as much as I have noticed your Douay-Rheims changes words. Languages do not translate word for word. They translate more like idea for idea. When someone makes a translation of the Bible, they choose the words in their own language that best express what they think the author is trying to say in the original language. There is no translation of the Bible in existence that does not add and subtract "words" from the Scriptures. For instance, Luther added the word "alone" in Romans 3:28 because, as he said, the verse did not make any sense in the German language without it. Now, suppose you have a guy living in the 20th century who goes to university to study Koine Greek, and an educated guy from the 2nd century who was raised from birth speaking Koine Greek as his first language. Who would you rely on to inform you what a difficult phrase in Koine Greek meant? You must not be familiar with an Interlinear bible. IT is not like a translation at all and is very hard to read. The words are written as they were spoken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kross Posted November 16, 2009 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 44 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,773 Content Per Day: 0.31 Reputation: 51 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/04/2008 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/27/1957 Share Posted November 16, 2009 He uses a bible translation for the Roman Catholic Church ... Douay-Rheims, there are some changes to words that back the church doctrine. And you know that your own translation is free from bias because........... Original Greek. I use the Interlinear bible as much as possible, especially when versions differ. To set your feelings at ease, the KJV and NKJV add to scripture just as much as I have noticed your Douay-Rheims changes words. Languages do not translate word for word. They translate more like idea for idea. When someone makes a translation of the Bible, they choose the words in their own language that best express what they think the author is trying to say in the original language. There is no translation of the Bible in existence that does not add and subtract "words" from the Scriptures. For instance, Luther added the word "alone" in Romans 3:28 because, as he said, the verse did not make any sense in the German language without it. Now, suppose you have a guy living in the 20th century who goes to university to study Koine Greek, and an educated guy from the 2nd century who was raised from birth speaking Koine Greek as his first language. Who would you rely on to inform you what a difficult phrase in Koine Greek meant? You must not be familiar with an Interlinear bible. IT is not like a translation at all and is very hard to read. The words are written as they were spoken. Could you give us John 3:5 out of that version? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leoxiii Posted November 16, 2009 Group: Senior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 512 Content Per Day: 0.10 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/30/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/25/1955 Share Posted November 16, 2009 He uses a bible translation for the Roman Catholic Church ... Douay-Rheims, there are some changes to words that back the church doctrine. And you know that your own translation is free from bias because........... Original Greek. I use the Interlinear bible as much as possible, especially when versions differ. To set your feelings at ease, the KJV and NKJV add to scripture just as much as I have noticed your Douay-Rheims changes words. Languages do not translate word for word. They translate more like idea for idea. When someone makes a translation of the Bible, they choose the words in their own language that best express what they think the author is trying to say in the original language. There is no translation of the Bible in existence that does not add and subtract "words" from the Scriptures. For instance, Luther added the word "alone" in Romans 3:28 because, as he said, the verse did not make any sense in the German language without it. Now, suppose you have a guy living in the 20th century who goes to university to study Koine Greek, and an educated guy from the 2nd century who was raised from birth speaking Koine Greek as his first language. Who would you rely on to inform you what a difficult phrase in Koine Greek meant? You must not be familiar with an Interlinear bible. IT is not like a translation at all and is very hard to read. The words are written as they were spoken. Here is a link for the Interlinear Bible online: http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterli.../NTpdf/joh3.pdf John 3:5 reads that one must be "generated" or "begotten" "out of water". That is not birth. When a person is born they are not generated or begotten out of water. No doubt in my mind that the Douay-Rheims in saying "one must be born again of water" is the closest translation of the text that can be had in English. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted November 16, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.22 Reputation: 9,763 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted November 16, 2009 He uses a bible translation for the Roman Catholic Church ... Douay-Rheims, there are some changes to words that back the church doctrine. And you know that your own translation is free from bias because........... Original Greek. I use the Interlinear bible as much as possible, especially when versions differ. To set your feelings at ease, the KJV and NKJV add to scripture just as much as I have noticed your Douay-Rheims changes words. Languages do not translate word for word. They translate more like idea for idea. When someone makes a translation of the Bible, they choose the words in their own language that best express what they think the author is trying to say in the original language. There is no translation of the Bible in existence that does not add and subtract "words" from the Scriptures. For instance, Luther added the word "alone" in Romans 3:28 because, as he said, the verse did not make any sense in the German language without it. Now, suppose you have a guy living in the 20th century who goes to university to study Koine Greek, and an educated guy from the 2nd century who was raised from birth speaking Koine Greek as his first language. Who would you rely on to inform you what a difficult phrase in Koine Greek meant? You must not be familiar with an Interlinear bible. IT is not like a translation at all and is very hard to read. The words are written as they were spoken. Here is a link for the Interlinear Bible online: http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterli.../NTpdf/joh3.pdf John 3:5 reads that one must be "generated" or "begotten" "out of water". That is not birth. When a person is born they are not generated or begotten out of water. No doubt in my mind that the Douay-Rheims in saying "one must be born again of water" is the closest translation of the text that can be had in English. Then you need to do more digging into this. I have that software myself, and you will notice that G1080 means ... 1080. gennao ghen-nah'-o from a variation of 1085; to procreate (properly, of the father, but by extension of the mother); figuratively, to regenerate:--bear, beget, be born, bring forth, conceive, be delivered of, gender, make, spring. Your version and understanding is wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kross Posted November 16, 2009 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 44 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,773 Content Per Day: 0.31 Reputation: 51 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/04/2008 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/27/1957 Share Posted November 16, 2009 He uses a bible translation for the Roman Catholic Church ... Douay-Rheims, there are some changes to words that back the church doctrine. And you know that your own translation is free from bias because........... Original Greek. I use the Interlinear bible as much as possible, especially when versions differ. To set your feelings at ease, the KJV and NKJV add to scripture just as much as I have noticed your Douay-Rheims changes words. Languages do not translate word for word. They translate more like idea for idea. When someone makes a translation of the Bible, they choose the words in their own language that best express what they think the author is trying to say in the original language. There is no translation of the Bible in existence that does not add and subtract "words" from the Scriptures. For instance, Luther added the word "alone" in Romans 3:28 because, as he said, the verse did not make any sense in the German language without it. Now, suppose you have a guy living in the 20th century who goes to university to study Koine Greek, and an educated guy from the 2nd century who was raised from birth speaking Koine Greek as his first language. Who would you rely on to inform you what a difficult phrase in Koine Greek meant? You must not be familiar with an Interlinear bible. IT is not like a translation at all and is very hard to read. The words are written as they were spoken. Here is a link for the Interlinear Bible online: http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterli.../NTpdf/joh3.pdf John 3:5 reads that one must be "generated" or "begotten" "out of water". That is not birth. When a person is born they are not generated or begotten out of water. No doubt in my mind that the Douay-Rheims in saying "one must be born again of water" is the closest translation of the text that can be had in English. I went to the link you provided. This is the same word used by Nicodemus to refer to physical birth. JESUS relates this physical birth to being born of water, which is true of physical birth. In all the words there, I could not see a word that would translate to "Again" in this verse. In both my greek crossreferences and in this link you have given me, this verse still reads "born of water and THE SPIRIT" not "born again" of water and THE SPIRIT. Thank you for the additional research tool. I added it to my favorites. The word "alone" doesn't appear in Romans 3:28 (at least not in the KJV) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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