Guest shiloh357 Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 You can deny the truth but the truth remains the truth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyguy Posted November 20, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 373 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 3,331 Content Per Day: 0.59 Reputation: 71 Days Won: 10 Joined: 10/15/2008 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/24/1965 Share Posted November 20, 2009 Jesus clearly states that belief and baptism PRECEED Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 You can deny the truth but the truth remains the truth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 But baptism is biblical doctrine - baptism is from God - it is His design. The Lord commanded baptism. I did not say baptism is not a biblical doctrine. I said "baptism is necessary for salvation" is not a biblical doctrine. You might consider classes in reading comprehension. Your silly notion that biblical doctrine must find support in both the OT and the NT is just that - silly. No, it is a chief characteristic of every doctrine in Scripture. If that is all you have to reject God's ordinance you don't have much.it is quite a bit when discussing doctrine. You didn't answer my question - what do you do with the many NT passages that plainly teach baptism, along with repentance and belief proceeding salvation? Do you sweep them under the rug?I am not sweeping anything under the rug. Don't change the subject. There is no biblical, doctrinal teaching that claim baptism is necessary for salvation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 QUOTE (shiloh357 @ Nov 19 2009, 06:35 PM) I did not say baptism is not a biblical doctrine. I said "baptism is necessary for salvation" is not a biblical doctrine. You might consider classes in reading comprehension. But it is you who does not comprehend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smalcald Posted November 20, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 32 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 5,258 Content Per Day: 0.76 Reputation: 42 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/16/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/22/1960 Share Posted November 20, 2009 If Jesus meant that baptism is necessary for salvation, that would have been taught extensively in the Old and New Testaments as, salvation occurred the same way in both testaments. The fact that we have no one in the Old Testament having to be saved by a type of baptism, speaks volumes. The Bible is one unified book and a chief characteristic of biblical doctrine is that it is a unified teaching from beginning to end. How did salvation occur in the Old Testament? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Botz Posted November 20, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 76 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,492 Content Per Day: 0.61 Reputation: 191 Days Won: 18 Joined: 03/29/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted November 20, 2009 I was 'sprinkled' in the Anglican Church when I was a baby...but it meant nothing to me as it was neither the biblical example of full immersion...nor my personal choice. I was fully immersed twenty years later, when the choice was mine...but I was 'saved' about two months prior to being baptized. Also I have seen many people saved on their death bed, and naturally the idea of baptizing any of them was a non-starter, but from their confession of faith in the L-rd Jesus I trust they were saved. I think like most of the Believers here, we all recognize the importance of baptism, and that we are commanded to be baptized, but there are circumstances which make it an impossibility, and yet none of us believes that people are not saved because they could not be baptized...they sure would have done so if they had had the opportunity. Our hope and our security are not in the dictates and vain arguments of men, who try and impose what they think are scriptural doctrines on us, but in the Word of G-d, and we have this confidence, that we know in whom we have believed...our salvation is based on relationship to Messiah. In Him. Botz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fez Posted November 20, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 683 Topics Per Day: 0.12 Content Count: 11,128 Content Per Day: 1.99 Reputation: 1,352 Days Won: 54 Joined: 02/03/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/07/1952 Share Posted November 20, 2009 Luk 23:39 One of the criminals who were hanged railed at him, saying, "Are you not the Christ? Save yourself and us!" Luk 23:40 But the other rebuked him, saying, "Do you not fear God, since you are under the same sentence of condemnation? Luk 23:41 And we indeed justly, for we are receiving the due reward of our deeds; but this man has done nothing wrong." Luk 23:42 And he said, "Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom." Luk 23:43 And he said to him, "Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise." (ESV) No, baptism is not required for salvation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 . Baptism is from God. Baptism is commanded by God. I never said otherwise. Belief, repentance and baptism all precede salvation. That is exactly what the NT teaches.No, that is not what the New Testament teaches. More accurately that is what you infer from isolated verses in the NT. This truth runs counter to your dogma and you think your dogma trumps God Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted November 20, 2009 Share Posted November 20, 2009 You continue to misunderstand/misapply the meaning of Scripture. Peter clearly states Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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