givennewname Posted December 1, 2009 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 14 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 324 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/29/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/16/1964 Author Share Posted December 1, 2009 i see many depictions of the rapture where babies are taken up in the rapture. children have inherited the sin nature, they are innocent rather than sinless, so why should they be taken up as believers? Are they included under the parent's faith?? You have declared that they are innocent, why would GOD declare them guilty? Because they have inherited the sin nature when Adam fell. Rom 3:23 for all have sinned, and fall short of the glory of God; All means even babies Seet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irishcowboy Posted December 1, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 127 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 3,248 Content Per Day: 0.88 Reputation: 13 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/23/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted December 1, 2009 i see many depictions of the rapture where babies are taken up in the rapture. children have inherited the sin nature, they are innocent rather than sinless, so why should they be taken up as believers? Are they included under the parent's faith?? there is nothing I have found that actually says that babies are going up with the Rapture.... some believe that children fall under the covering of their parents, so if the parents are saved, the child will follow, but... if the parent is not save, the child is also lost (unles they have taken the Lord as their savior..... some believe that children (until the age of what people call the accountability) will be taken up then they have to make their own choice if past that age..... the only thing I can think might shed some light is that if a person is a believer, and they are married to an unbeliever, the unbeliever is sanctified under the believer..... mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
givennewname Posted December 1, 2009 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 14 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 324 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/29/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/16/1964 Author Share Posted December 1, 2009 i see many depictions of the rapture where babies are taken up in the rapture. children have inherited the sin nature, they are innocent rather than sinless, so why should they be taken up as believers? Are they included under the parent's faith?? there is nothing I have found that actually says that babies are going up with the Rapture.... some believe that children fall under the covering of their parents, so if the parents are saved, the child will follow, but... if the parent is not save, the child is also lost (unles they have taken the Lord as their savior..... some believe that children (until the age of what people call the accountability) will be taken up then they have to make their own choice if past that age..... the only thing I can think might shed some light is that if a person is a believer, and they are married to an unbeliever, the unbeliever is sanctified under the believer..... mike Thanks Mike the only thing I can think might shed some light is that if a person is a believer, and they are married to an unbeliever, the unbeliever is sanctified under the believer..... I never could really understand this concept.. being sanctified does not mean that unbelieving husband is saved... that would rather go against the concept of a personal salvation and personal accountability of sin... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irishcowboy Posted December 1, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 127 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 3,248 Content Per Day: 0.88 Reputation: 13 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/23/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted December 1, 2009 i see many depictions of the rapture where babies are taken up in the rapture. children have inherited the sin nature, they are innocent rather than sinless, so why should they be taken up as believers? Are they included under the parent's faith?? there is nothing I have found that actually says that babies are going up with the Rapture.... some believe that children fall under the covering of their parents, so if the parents are saved, the child will follow, but... if the parent is not save, the child is also lost (unles they have taken the Lord as their savior..... some believe that children (until the age of what people call the accountability) will be taken up then they have to make their own choice if past that age..... the only thing I can think might shed some light is that if a person is a believer, and they are married to an unbeliever, the unbeliever is sanctified under the believer..... mike Thanks Mike the only thing I can think might shed some light is that if a person is a believer, and they are married to an unbeliever, the unbeliever is sanctified under the believer..... I never could really understand this concept.. being sanctified does not mean that unbelieving husband is saved... that would rather go against the concept of a personal salvation and personal accountability of sin... this is true..... I, personally, believe that a child falls under the covering of the parent(s)..... rather then all are saved until they reach the age of accountability.... remember, there is not much to support either claim, this is the way I believe though..... a parent is to teach the child, and if the parent is not saved, they are not going to teach the child, if they are, they will be teaching.... mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
givennewname Posted December 1, 2009 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 14 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 324 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/29/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/16/1964 Author Share Posted December 1, 2009 What is the age of accountability? In he Jewish custom, the Bar Mitzvah done at the age of about 12 years old would indicate that the child has come of age and he is asked to read the scriptures to indicate that he is a man and able to discern spiritual truths. I suppose thats as close to the age of accountability as one can get. I remember a story where Jesus accompanied his parent to the Temple and his father thought he was walking with the women, and when the women caught up with the men, Jesus was not with them, and both the parents thought he was missing, later to find him discussing the scriptures in "his father's house". The fact that Jesus was walking with the women indicate that he was not a man yet to be in the company of the men. No insult intended to women... i just read the sciptures as written. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kross Posted December 1, 2009 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 44 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,773 Content Per Day: 0.31 Reputation: 51 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/04/2008 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/27/1957 Share Posted December 1, 2009 i see many depictions of the rapture where babies are taken up in the rapture. children have inherited the sin nature, they are innocent rather than sinless, so why should they be taken up as believers? Are they included under the parent's faith?? You have declared that they are innocent, why would GOD declare them guilty? Because they have inherited the sin nature when Adam fell. Rom 3:23 for all have sinned, and fall short of the glory of God; All means even babies Seet nonsense. GOD also declares that where there is no law, there is no transgretion. Babies do not have the law. Just because a baby inherits a sin nature does not mean it inherits sin. Sin is a desire of the heart. Babies operate on instinct. What you are declaring is that GOD is not fair nd just. I cannot agree with you. But, you have the right to think of GOD as you choose. That is between you and HIM. You see HIM as someone more interested in punishments and judgements, I see HIM as one more interested in grace, love, and forgiveness. We will know when we get there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kross Posted December 1, 2009 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 44 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,773 Content Per Day: 0.31 Reputation: 51 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/04/2008 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/27/1957 Share Posted December 1, 2009 i see many depictions of the rapture where babies are taken up in the rapture. children have inherited the sin nature, they are innocent rather than sinless, so why should they be taken up as believers? Are they included under the parent's faith?? there is nothing I have found that actually says that babies are going up with the Rapture.... some believe that children fall under the covering of their parents, so if the parents are saved, the child will follow, but... if the parent is not save, the child is also lost (unles they have taken the Lord as their savior..... some believe that children (until the age of what people call the accountability) will be taken up then they have to make their own choice if past that age..... the only thing I can think might shed some light is that if a person is a believer, and they are married to an unbeliever, the unbeliever is sanctified under the believer..... mike Thanks Mike the only thing I can think might shed some light is that if a person is a believer, and they are married to an unbeliever, the unbeliever is sanctified under the believer..... I never could really understand this concept.. being sanctified does not mean that unbelieving husband is saved... that would rather go against the concept of a personal salvation and personal accountability of sin... Some mistakenly think Sanctified here is the same as Justified. The believer will improve the actions of the unbeliever (sanctification) but not necessarily make them right with GOD (justification) Sort of like being ritually clean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kross Posted December 1, 2009 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 44 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,773 Content Per Day: 0.31 Reputation: 51 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/04/2008 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/27/1957 Share Posted December 1, 2009 The bottom line of this conversation is: (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of election might stand, not of works, but of HIM that calleth) It will be decided by GOD's grace and election, not by whether they have done any good or evil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kross Posted December 1, 2009 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 44 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,773 Content Per Day: 0.31 Reputation: 51 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/04/2008 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/27/1957 Share Posted December 1, 2009 i see many depictions of the rapture where babies are taken up in the rapture. children have inherited the sin nature, they are innocent rather than sinless, so why should they be taken up as believers? Are they included under the parent's faith?? there is nothing I have found that actually says that babies are going up with the Rapture.... some believe that children fall under the covering of their parents, so if the parents are saved, the child will follow, but... if the parent is not save, the child is also lost (unles they have taken the Lord as their savior..... some believe that children (until the age of what people call the accountability) will be taken up then they have to make their own choice if past that age..... the only thing I can think might shed some light is that if a person is a believer, and they are married to an unbeliever, the unbeliever is sanctified under the believer..... mike Thanks Mike the only thing I can think might shed some light is that if a person is a believer, and they are married to an unbeliever, the unbeliever is sanctified under the believer..... I never could really understand this concept.. being sanctified does not mean that unbelieving husband is saved... that would rather go against the concept of a personal salvation and personal accountability of sin... this is true..... I, personally, believe that a child falls under the covering of the parent(s)..... rather then all are saved until they reach the age of accountability.... remember, there is not much to support either claim, this is the way I believe though..... a parent is to teach the child, and if the parent is not saved, they are not going to teach the child, if they are, they will be teaching.... mike In your statement, you have said two things. 1. The sins of the parents will be punished on their child (basically) 2. One who has not heard and has not grown to an age where they are knowledgable of the law, will be guilty. I think I still believe the love of GOD more than the wrath of GOD will be on the young ones. Although, they might just be considered non-people and have no eternal destiny at all. Of course, this is a conversation about babies in the rapture and that would depend on if you are pre-trib or post-trib with regard to whether that equates to sin and salvation or eternal damnation. Still, HIS grace is sufficient. This will be my last post in this thread. This is one of those doubtful things that needs not be discussed further It is up to GOD what HE decides to do with them in HIS wisdom and grace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irishcowboy Posted December 2, 2009 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 127 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 3,248 Content Per Day: 0.88 Reputation: 13 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/23/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted December 2, 2009 i see many depictions of the rapture where babies are taken up in the rapture. children have inherited the sin nature, they are innocent rather than sinless, so why should they be taken up as believers? Are they included under the parent's faith?? there is nothing I have found that actually says that babies are going up with the Rapture.... some believe that children fall under the covering of their parents, so if the parents are saved, the child will follow, but... if the parent is not save, the child is also lost (unles they have taken the Lord as their savior..... some believe that children (until the age of what people call the accountability) will be taken up then they have to make their own choice if past that age..... the only thing I can think might shed some light is that if a person is a believer, and they are married to an unbeliever, the unbeliever is sanctified under the believer..... mike Thanks Mike the only thing I can think might shed some light is that if a person is a believer, and they are married to an unbeliever, the unbeliever is sanctified under the believer..... I never could really understand this concept.. being sanctified does not mean that unbelieving husband is saved... that would rather go against the concept of a personal salvation and personal accountability of sin... this is true..... I, personally, believe that a child falls under the covering of the parent(s)..... rather then all are saved until they reach the age of accountability.... remember, there is not much to support either claim, this is the way I believe though..... a parent is to teach the child, and if the parent is not saved, they are not going to teach the child, if they are, they will be teaching.... mike In your statement, you have said two things. 1. The sins of the parents will be punished on their child (basically) 2. One who has not heard and has not grown to an age where they are knowledgable of the law, will be guilty. I think I still believe the love of GOD more than the wrath of GOD will be on the young ones. Although, they might just be considered non-people and have no eternal destiny at all. Of course, this is a conversation about babies in the rapture and that would depend on if you are pre-trib or post-trib with regard to whether that equates to sin and salvation or eternal damnation. Still, HIS grace is sufficient. This will be my last post in this thread. This is one of those doubtful things that needs not be discussed further It is up to GOD what HE decides to do with them in HIS wisdom and grace. Nr. 1 is not what I said..... if a parent is a Non-believer, they will be teaching their children to also be non-believers (buhdist, hindu, islamic, so forth and so ont....) if a parent is a Believer, they will be teaching thier children to also be believers..... mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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