BobTriez Posted July 24, 2004 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 84 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,478 Content Per Day: 0.20 Reputation: 4 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/23/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/11/1972 Share Posted July 24, 2004 Bob this is just how i am reading your points. Of course we are just humans using a human language So a lot of misunderstandings can rear their ugly heads Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmwhalen Posted July 24, 2004 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 80 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 997 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 7 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/25/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted July 24, 2004 Previous posts say repent means: "to confess and admit sinful behaviour" "have a genuine remorse for your behaviour(i.e. say you are sorry to God)" " Turn from said behaviour ( heart change ) and commit to engage no more in it". " Flee from any future temptations to engage in sinful behaviour" "To be truly sorry for your sins and to make a decision to turn away from that sin and follow Christ". "...and turning from those sins." "to actually stop sinning." "..being sorrowful for all your wrong doings and your rebellion against God Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobTriez Posted July 24, 2004 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 84 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,478 Content Per Day: 0.20 Reputation: 4 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/23/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/11/1972 Share Posted July 24, 2004 These definitions "miss the mark". I posted this previously-The Word of God tells us that repentance means "to change your mind". The context determines what you are "repenting from" or "changing your mind about". But it is not automatically TURNING FROM SIN, ADMITTING SINFUL BEHAVIOUR......or you are declaring that God is a sinner! But the contextual message of the simplicity of the Gospel is in fact to STOP, TURN and RUN. No need to get into the semantics of confusing legalistic definitions.... I can appreciate your effort here John ? However I do not believe the Gospel was meant to be hard nor encrypted with riddle. When Jesus said "Repent" He never intended on causing confusion.....He made it simple. Stop ( sinning ), turn ( change ) and run ( do it no more ). Again, I appreciate your work here, but for all our 'young' believers here, we do need to keep things simple....just as our Lord did. God bless, Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catsmeow Posted July 24, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 439 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 7,315 Content Per Day: 0.93 Reputation: 356 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/21/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted July 24, 2004 BobTriez: I'll second that motion! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ted Posted July 24, 2004 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 276 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 7,474 Content Per Day: 0.96 Reputation: 51 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/25/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/31/1966 Share Posted July 24, 2004 Repent- Stop doing the sinful things before God gives me a spiritual butt- whuppin'Â t. Simple. t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmwhalen Posted July 24, 2004 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 80 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 997 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 7 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/25/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted July 24, 2004 Bob writes: "But the contextual message of the simplicity of the Gospel is in fact to STOP, TURN and RUN. No need to get into the semantics of confusing legalistic definitions.... I can appreciate your effort here John ? However I do not believe the Gospel was meant to be hard nor encrypted with riddle. When Jesus said "Repent" He never intended on causing confusion.....He made it simple. Stop ( sinning ), turn ( change ) and run ( do it no more ). Again, I appreciate your work here, but to a 'young' believer, we do need to keep things simple....just as our Lord did." My comment: No, Bob, these are not semantics-The good news IS NOT STOP SINNING-that is not the gospel of Christ, for that is truly BAD NEWS, for no one can stop sinning, ot turn from all their sins, and, more importantly, justification is not dependent on this. . STOP SINNING is santification, not justification. People are making the condition of justification to be STOP SINNING-NO! The simple reqirement is BELEF-That is simple, and this is the only reqirement. We must not make the reqirement for justification conditioned on something we do=that is a work. "Turning from sin", "stop sinning" are works. I may sound like "a broken record", but I "will call" anyone on this board that attempts to pervert the gospel of Christ with another gospel, which is NOT GOOD NEWS(Galatians Chapter 1), but is under a curse. That is,any attempts to add a works-based performance system as a requirement for justification, and that includes the erroneous notion that "repent", in the context of salvation, means "to turn from your sins", will be rebuked, even if I am the only one on this board to say so. This is "serious business" folks-souls are at stake. JUSTIFICATION is a one time event, and repentance, as it pertains to justification, and salvation from the penalty of sin(notice I did not say repentance as it pertains to salvation from the power of sin, which is SANCTIFICATION), is also a one time event. I will not stand idly by and allow someone to make the typical "Lordship salvation" argument, which is also under a curse, by confusing SERVICE=SANCTIFICATION with salvation.We must define this word as the Holy Bible does, and this IS NOT SEMANTICS.. And the Holy Bible defines repent simply as "to change one's mind or heart"-it is that simple. The context of the subject matter determines what one must "change your mind" about. How do we know that repent means "change of mind"? Because the LORD GOD repented, as mentioned. No believer on this board would claim that the LORD GOD can sin. But repentance is NEVER defined as "turning from your sins", "a work that requires something on our part","getting sin out of your life", "stop continually and intentionally keep doing the same thing" "changing your actions, as it pertains to justication(declaration of righteusness) of the sinner, and is NEVER made a prerequisite, an "up front charge" in any of the presentation of the "gospel of Christ", the "gospel of the grace of God", as presented by the apostle Paul in Romans through Philemon, and as outlined in 1 Corinthians 15:1-5-NEVER. Repent, as it refers to man and his acceptance by a Holy God with regards to justification, refers to man changing his mind about himself and his ability to save himself through a performance based system, i.e., "The Law". It is a "mental about face", a realization of man's own sinfulness(conviction), an abhorrence of oneself(Isaiah's "...Woe is me! for I am undone; because I am a man of unclean lips...." -6:5), an "I cannot save myself-only the LORD God can save me" mindset. As I have said many times, the Biblical order is SONSHIP(justification), then SERVICE(sanctification). Those who reverse this biblical order are putting the proverbial "horse before the cart", and are confusing service to our Father AS SONS with service TO BECOME SONS. Those who make statements such as "make Jesus Lord of your life", "turn your life over to Jesus, give your life to Jesus"(despite the fact that the heart of the gospel is the Lord Jesus Christ GIVING HIS LIFE FOR US, and has nothing to do with us giving him anything!) make this deadly error. I ask everyone on this board to ask themselves if they have "stopped sinning", "turned from all their sins". I have not, but I thank the LORD that my salvation is not, and cannot be, dependent on what I do, but was already done 2000 years ago by the Lord Jesus Christ, and all the LORD God asks is that I BELIEVE it! NEWS, by defintion, is SOMETHING THAT HAS ALREADY HAPPENED. This is not a "persecution complex", but I am ready for "the afflictions of the gospel"(2 Tim. 1:8). In Christ, John M. Whalen. In Christ, John M. Whalen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobTriez Posted July 24, 2004 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 84 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,478 Content Per Day: 0.20 Reputation: 4 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/23/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/11/1972 Share Posted July 24, 2004 John you have me all wrong....I know and understand well what Justification & Sanctification is. And I absolutely understand that the "Good News" or Gospel is more than repentance....and I also agree we can not stop sinning until our sanctification is complete ( and not in the flesh ). You seem to be misreading me. This thread was about what repentance means to you. We do not need fancy definitions to understand what Jesus taught. We are stupid. I'm a sheep who grazes until he falls off a cliff. That's why I have a Shepherd :il: My Daddy....I do love Him so He directs me back when I try to stray too far. Jesus' message WAS simple. Legalism makes it hard so we look to hard....that is not Daddy's will Like I said, He made it simple on purpose - 'cuz we're all STUPID. You are writing under a false premise that I think we can stop sinning ? No.....I know much better than that. 1 John 1:8-10 points it out quite well. Adstar asked me to explain what I meant by my points 3 & 4. I answered a direct question and my answers need to be viewed in light of the answer to his question - NOT as a broad encompassing doctrine of what the Gospels taught. I do hope we're clear on that Daddy is GOOD God bless, Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi4Yahweh Posted July 24, 2004 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 75 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,955 Content Per Day: 0.26 Reputation: 636 Days Won: 1 Joined: 11/12/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted July 24, 2004 John you have me all wrong....I know and understand well what Justification & Sanctification is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmwhalen Posted July 24, 2004 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 80 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 997 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 7 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/25/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted July 24, 2004 Thanks Bob-you speak "with grace"(Col. 4:6). My point was to emphasize what the post asked:"What is repentance", and to say, in no uncertain terms, that we must not confuse what this term means in relation to justification. Yes, repentance can, and actually does, sometimes refer to "turning from sins", but this context is always in relation to SANCTIFICATION, not justification. We must make 1 Cor. 15:1-4 simple and clear, and stress, as it is written: "But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness." Romans 4:5 In Christ, John Whalen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobTriez Posted July 24, 2004 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 84 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,478 Content Per Day: 0.20 Reputation: 4 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/23/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/11/1972 Share Posted July 24, 2004 To Jedi - Hmmmm....not sure I want to derail this thread into a "sinless pefection doctrine" debate. I believe you are reading those verses out of context and all wrong....we cannot live sin free on earth as humans....however, let's not derail Adstars' thread ? If you want to debate "Sinless Perfection", I would ask you to start a new thread on it....but do not expect me to participate. I've all but wore myself out on that issue before - never-the-less you are welcome to start a new topic on iy.....the Bible speaks for itself.....we are in need of a Saviour. Period. To embrace Sinless Perfection NEGATES the need to repent. Serving Him, Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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