Faith-proving works

[Bold Believer]

Sola Scriptura and Sola Fidei are bulwark doctrines of the Christian faith, any one who has been a Believer for any length of time knows this, even they don't know the theological whatever behind the doctrine.

Sola Scriptura is pretty straightforward (Scripture alone), but sola fidei, not so much.

Sola Fidei (Faith alone) carries with it the baggage of 'just believe.' I say that because this is how the doctrine is most often presented. Unfortunately, while the doctrine is correct, its presentation is not always so.

In James, the writer says "The devils believe and tremble." So then what? Are the great Protestant theologues crazy? Are they heretics? Of course not. Faith alone IS correct. However...faith is to be PROVEN OUTWARDLY BY ONE'S WORKS.

If all I do is believe, and have no works, I'm spiritually naked. The Scripture speaks of the fine white linen being the righteous deeds of the saints. (Revelation)

The nudity of professing saints is most often seen in their lack of compassion toward the poor here in America. While we will toss money into the church's coffers every Sunday for a bigger building or some other project, or give to earthquake victims in Haiti or other places when a disaste comes along, the poor amongst us are often neglected. The person who has to live on next to nothing, who winds up housebound because there's no money left after the disability or the Social Security check comes and the bills (those that can be) are paid is often the most neglected of them all. Believers often act like it's a sin to be poor, as though the poor person is somehow responsible for their situation, so they are left to suffer as though they are a child being taught a lesson. What does this attitude say about Christianity? Nothing good, I can tell you.

There is no excuse in America for a poor person not being taken care of. Furthermore, Jesus Himself equates failing to make sure that such persons are provided for with saving faith in Mt 25. "You saw me naked, but you put no clothes on my back; you saw me hungry, but you put no food in my stomach; you saw me thirsty, but you gave no water to me. DEPART FROM ME!"

Some will say that there are no true poor in America because we have so much. Some poor people have TVs or vehicles or a place to live, how can you call them poor? Consider that such people may not have been poor all their lives. Maybe they were more affluent at some point and still have some things. Should they have to sell off everything they possess and go deeper into poverty so they qualify for our definition of poor? I can bet a lot of Believers wouldn't; yet these same Believers would expect a less-advantaged person to sit in their home and stare at the four walls and do nothing all day but eat what little they can get and sleep. (Then in typical fashion, we'd condemn them for being lazy.)

We most often think of the sin of Sodom as rampant militant homosexuality, but this condition is the RESULT of something greater in a society.

"Behold, this was the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had arrogance, abundant food and careless ease, but she did not help the poor and needy. Thus they were haughty and committed abominations before Me. Therefore I removed them when I saw {it.} ..."

Ezekiel 16:49,50

Jesus is spoken of as having gone about doing good works. IF we are to follow Him, should we not be following His example and proving our faith by our works?

[e lansing]

Sola Scriptura and Sola Fidei are bulwark doctrines of the Christian faith, any one who has been a Believer for any length of time knows this, even they don't know the theological whatever behind the doctrine.

Sola Scriptura is pretty straightforward (Scripture alone), but sola fidei, not so much.

Sola Fidei (Faith alone) carries with it the baggage of 'just believe.' I say that because this is how the doctrine is most often presented. Unfortunately, while the doctrine is correct, its presentation is not always so.

In James, the writer says "The devils believe and tremble." So then what? Are the great Protestant theologues crazy? Are they heretics? Of course not. Faith alone IS correct. However...faith is to be PROVEN OUTWARDLY BY ONE'S WORKS.

If all I do is believe, and have no works, I'm spiritually naked. The Scripture speaks of the fine white linen being the righteous deeds of the saints. (Revelation)

The nudity of professing saints is most often seen in their lack of compassion toward the poor here in America. While we will toss money into the church's coffers every Sunday for a bigger building or some other project, or give to earthquake victims in Haiti or other places when a disaste comes along, the poor amongst us are often neglected. The person who has to live on next to nothing, who winds up housebound because there's no money left after the disability or the Social Security check comes and the bills (those that can be) are paid is often the most neglected of them all. Believers often act like it's a sin to be poor, as though the poor person is somehow responsible for their situation, so they are left to suffer as though they are a child being taught a lesson. What does this attitude say about Christianity? Nothing good, I can tell you.

There is no excuse in America for a poor person not being taken care of. Furthermore, Jesus Himself equates failing to make sure that such persons are provided for with saving faith in Mt 25. "You saw me naked, but you put no clothes on my back; you saw me hungry, but you put no food in my stomach; you saw me thirsty, but you gave no water to me. DEPART FROM ME!"

Some will say that there are no true poor in America because we have so much. Some poor people have TVs or vehicles or a place to live, how can you call them poor? Consider that such people may not have been poor all their lives. Maybe they were more affluent at some point and still have some things. Should they have to sell off everything they possess and go deeper into poverty so they qualify for our definition of poor? I can bet a lot of Believers wouldn't; yet these same Believers would expect a less-advantaged person to sit in their home and stare at the four walls and do nothing all day but eat what little they can get and sleep. (Then in typical fashion, we'd condemn them for being lazy.)

We most often think of the sin of Sodom as rampant militant homosexuality, but this condition is the RESULT of something greater in a society.

"Behold, this was the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had arrogance, abundant food and careless ease, but she did not help the poor and needy. Thus they were haughty and committed abominations before Me. Therefore I removed them when I saw {it.} ..."

Ezekiel 16:49,50

Jesus is spoken of as having gone about doing good works. IF we are to follow Him, should we not be following His example and proving our faith by our works?

I agree that faith, true faith is seen in our life style. We live out what we believe!. Poverty is something that Jesus said that we will always have. Should we not help them because Jesus said that? No. We should help them but our help should be in a way to get them saved. If feeding them clothing them is a way of getting them saved, i love that! If we are going to be a welfare system for them, them we are hurting them more then helping. When it comes to poverty there are so many issues its hard to perscribe a one-solution-fits-all. If we are Christians being poor by the worlds standards is ok. Paul said that he is content all the time, regardless of wealth.

[Ovedya]

Isn't poverty defined within the confines of the situation or the economy in which it exists? How can one rightly judge the faith of a person by how much they help or do not help the poor?

[e lansing]

Isn't poverty defined within the confines of the situation or the economy in which it exists? How can one rightly judge the faith of a person by how much they help or do not help the poor?

this is not what i was saying. all i'm saying is that where we have placed our faith in is seen in our choices. If we chose not to help the poor this does not mean your not a christian. But as christians we should express our love for Jesus by helping in anyway we can.

[OneLight]

Every one of us have people placed in our lives that need our help, those who God has put there so we can do His work for them. They can be either saved or not saved, it makes no difference. We are to do His works He has for us to do.

As for the saved, James wrote when a brother or sister comes to us with a need, and all we do is verbally bless them, how have we helped them? We should meet their needs the best we can. This is how we show love for one another, so the world will know we are His.

James 2:15-16 (New King James Version)

If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, and one of you says to them,

[Rick-Parker]

In James, the writer says "The devils believe and tremble." So then what? Are the great Protestant theologues crazy? Are they heretics? Of course not. Faith alone IS correct. However...faith is to be PROVEN OUTWARDLY BY ONE'S WORKS.

If all I do is believe, and have no works, I'm spiritually naked. The Scripture speaks of the fine white linen being the righteous deeds of the saints. (Revelation)

Jesus is spoken of as having gone about doing good works. IF we are to follow Him, should we not be following His example and proving our faith by our works?

And there you have (Conditional) Once Saved Always Saved!

[Bold Believer]

Every one of us have people placed in our lives that need our help, those who God has put there so we can do His work for them. They can be either saved or not saved, it makes no difference. We are to do His works He has for us to do.

As for the saved, James wrote when a brother or sister comes to us with a need, and all we do is verbally bless them, how have we helped them? We should meet their needs the best we can. This is how we show love for one another, so the world will know we are His.

James 2:15-16 (New King James Version)

If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, and one of you says to them,

[Itocory]

It seems a bit odd to think so little of a very giving people. I mean to say that America as a country and a people give and give and give.

Google this speech set to music in 1973: The Americans: A Canadian's Opinion By Gordon Sinclair

If they give to the poor in Haiti why does that not count?

You said yourself that you do not ask for money but you want to pin blame on "Christian America" because they do not help - could it be that you have not because you ask not?

I personally do give to those who hold signs on the street because they ask - even though I suspect that many may not truly need it. I can not be sure and Jesus said to give to him that asks. I waffled over this type of giving for a while until my friend told me that his son had asked him the question, "Why don't we give to the poor on the street?" and he could not really justify not giving. So we both have decided that it is Christian to give in that situation.

It is interesting that you mention digging for cans in the garbage. A brother that attends our church - only on Sunday mornings testified that while standing in a dumpster (looking for cans) he witnessed to a stranger.

After this testimony my wife and I decided we would save our cans and give them to him. What is interesting is that this same brother has simply asked me at different times for gas money to get home with. So, I give. If he didn't say he needed it I would not be aware of his need. Perhaps, I am not spiritual enough to have the Lord reveal the need to me but I know it now, so I give to him and his wife, even if not asked.

As for what people think: I think digging for cans is a low paying job but an honest job nonetheless.

Which leads me to wonder, why many of those you mention in great need do ask for help?

American Christians are always thought of as shallow and spoiled (which you can find whatever you are looking for in America) but can you agree that this message board is full of knowledgeable Christians and I don't think of them as shallow and I further assume the best of my brethren - that they do give. Giving should be done humbly and with simplicity. I would actually be offended if someone started a thread titled, "How much do you give?"

Let us consider another common American trait - pride. How many Americans are poor and are too proud to scale down their lifestyle when their financial situation calls for it. You mentioned it as though it would be wrong for people to expect us to sell our excess. To have a love of money doesn't mean someone is rich.

I hope I don't sound heartless, I am just a little sensitive to accusations about my fellow countrymen.

I do construction for residential customers and I have met hundreds of people, 80% plus in my estimation are considerate and well behaved. Oddly enough, some very wealthy folks are the most generous and kind people I have ever met. In my ten years of doing this I guess there was about 30 people total that were just mean and selfish. Of course this is just my perception and it is not scientific but I find it hard to think so harshly against Americans especially when they are Christians.

I will pray for your situation - and even at that I would not have known if you had not told me.