Evolutionists: Why is it so important to you?

[Fez]

Not sure what you meant, Fez, but some things take me a while to think about before I can answer.

Sorry, I was a bit obtuse.

This penny Because I have not seen the evidence for a long while

And so far the only gain I've seen here is that none of us have the evidence to support your claim that you are a Christian.

[nebula]

Do you interact on a science board as a Christian representative?

I did. I discovered that joining with them did not change their perspective on Christianity, nor on Jesus, one iota.

So what evidence do you have to support your belief that Christians believing in evolution will change nonbelievers perceptions of Christianity?

I've seen it happen many-a-time, on myself among others.

Really?

What was the change? And did it lead the other to come to faith in Jesus?

[nebula]

And so far the only gain I've seen here is that none of us have the evidence to support your claim that you are a Christian.

Well, you certainly haven't taken the opportunity to take moral high ground with the repeated questioning of other's faiths, but I've noticed some of you guys cleaning up your arguments a bit. I do agree though that you still have a long way to go before you could venture out beyond this forum and not get completely shredded. If you disagree you're welcome to try your hand at the EvC forums.

I wasn't saying this is a slam. I'm presenting to you the conflict.

You say that one can love Jesus, believe in His death and resurrection, and all that while still believing standard evolution - yet your posts are not showing the evidence of the first part being real to you.

How can you be effective here to your cause without that?

As for me in another forum, I'm not an evangelist, and I'm not an apologist, and really if you saw where I went while at the astronomy forum you'd have probably applauded me for how far I'd come but like the others there bemoaned me not going far enough. I couldn't take that step they wanted me to take without losing my trust in the nature and character of YHWH.

I ran away from that edge I'd approached for fear of the Lord and of falling over the cliff.

And that is why you can't win me over. I need to see someone with a zeal for the Lord who believes as you do before I can dare consider accepting these things again.

What would you rather me have? Strong trust in evolution or strong trust in the Lord? If you think I can have both, then I need to see the evidence of someone with both.

I haven't seen that yet.

[nebula]

A large chunk of communication is non-verbal cues, so I'm not at all surprised that some of you guys keep missing this but I am a little disappointed. I've had the opportunity to see a very wide range of Christians from all sorts of denominations on three continents and have been able to witness the kinds of fruits each produced. In all my life none has compared to those with a quiet personal relationship with God not based on outward proclamations but instead on showing others the love of Christ in their actions. This is the kind of life I strive to live, though it doesn't make for a big showy "Ta-da!" on a message forum.

Actually, all you have to do is enter the regular Bible discussions we have going on, and the like. A genuine relationship with the Lord comes across when you talk about Him and His ways if such a relationship exists.

[nebula]

If you want to argue against evolution or standard geology or the big bang theory that is your choice. . . . I am actually so confident in my position that I know if I can get you to do this the conclusion will be inevitable.

Old Earth I don't have a problem with. Big Bang doesn't bother me.

Life arising all on it's own, man descending from an ape-like ancestor - these I have a problem with.

And since evolutionists can't explain where life comes from, what natural conclusion does naturalistic-based evolution offer?

[Rick-Parker]

All right, but why is it important for non-scientists to believe man's bodies evolved from some ape ancestor?

Why is it important to learn that plate tectonics produce movements of the earth's crust? Why is it important to know the fundamental relationship between energy and mass? Because these theories explain reality and let us understand the physical world.

Do you interact on a science board as a Christian representative?

I did. I discovered that joining with them did not change their perspective on Christianity, nor on Jesus, one iota.

So what evidence do you have to support your belief that Christians believing in evolution will change nonbelievers perceptions of Christianity?

I've seen it happen many-a-time, on myself among others.

And so far the only gain I've seen here is that none of us have the evidence to support your claim that you are a Christian.

Well, you certainly haven't taken the opportunity to take moral high ground with the repeated questioning of other's faiths, but I've noticed some of you guys cleaning up your arguments a bit. I do agree though that you still have a long way to go before you could venture out beyond this forum and not get completely shredded. If you disagree you're welcome to try your hand at the EvC forums.

Lurker

Why would any Christian want to go to the playground of satan and losers?

[nebula]

Evolution is naturalistic-based. Look to nature to explain nature.

For that matter, all science is naturalistic-based.

You said: " I am actually so confident in my position that I know if I can get you to do this the conclusion will be inevitable."

So what is the inevitable conclusion where science can't explain life by natural means?

[Guest shiloh357]

Really? We don't "flex" what the bible says? Have you ever been in a professional position of authority over a man? Did you find "flexing" that particular part of the Word problematic?

The Bible does not forbid a woman from being in a profession position of authority over a man.

The Bible certainly contains inflexible moral and spiritual truths, but let's not pretend as though we do not recognize that those truths are housed within the context of the time they were first written.

God used the contempoary culture of ancient Israel as a vehicle to communicate His truth. However, that has no bearing on the flexibility or inflexibility of truth. Truth itself stands independent of anything and everything else.

The Bible is certainly one very specific way God has chosen to reveal Himself, but it is not the totality of Christianity -

It is the totality of Christianity. It is the sole source of Christian faith and practice.

I would think that we would also know about God through a personal relationship with Him, yes?

Yes, but that does not occur independently of the Word of God. God does not communicate any truth to us that is not already contained in Scripture. Having a personal relationship with God is outlined in the Bible and is predicated on believing what is written therein. It is not a mystical experience that occurs apart from the inerrant truth of Scripture. It is not a source of additional spiritual information or truth outside of Scripture.

The nature of our relationship with God is predicated on the 100% trustworthiness of the Bible in all that it says. The Bible teaches us what that relationship looks like and where the boundaries lie.

[MorningGlory]

Really? We don't "flex" what the bible says? Have you ever been in a professional position of authority over a man? Did you find "flexing" that particular part of the Word problematic?

The Bible does not forbid a woman from being in a profession position of authority over a man.

The Bible certainly contains inflexible moral and spiritual truths, but let's not pretend as though we do not recognize that those truths are housed within the context of the time they were first written.

God used the contempoary culture of ancient Israel as a vehicle to communicate His truth. However, that has no bearing on the flexibility or inflexibility of truth. Truth itself stands independent of anything and everything else.

The Bible is certainly one very specific way God has chosen to reveal Himself, but it is not the totality of Christianity -

It is the totality of Christianity. It is the sole source of Christian faith and practice.

I would think that we would also know about God through a personal relationship with Him, yes?

Yes, but that does not occur independently of the Word of God. God does not communicate any truth to us that is not already contained in Scripture. Having a personal relationship with God is outlined in the Bible and is predicated on believing what is written therein. It is not a mystical experience that occurs apart from the inerrant truth of Scripture. It is not a source of additional spiritual information or truth outside of Scripture.

The nature of our relationship with God is predicated on the 100% trustworthiness of the Bible in all that it says. The Bible teaches us what that relationship looks like and where the boundaries lie.

[Fez]

Really? We don't "flex" what the bible says? Have you ever been in a professional position of authority over a man? Did you find "flexing" that particular part of the Word problematic?

The Bible does not forbid a woman from being in a profession position of authority over a man.

The Bible certainly contains inflexible moral and spiritual truths, but let's not pretend as though we do not recognize that those truths are housed within the context of the time they were first written.

God used the contempoary culture of ancient Israel as a vehicle to communicate His truth. However, that has no bearing on the flexibility or inflexibility of truth. Truth itself stands independent of anything and everything else.

The Bible is certainly one very specific way God has chosen to reveal Himself, but it is not the totality of Christianity -

It is the totality of Christianity. It is the sole source of Christian faith and practice.

I would think that we would also know about God through a personal relationship with Him, yes?

Yes, but that does not occur independently of the Word of God. God does not communicate any truth to us that is not already contained in Scripture. Having a personal relationship with God is outlined in the Bible and is predicated on believing what is written therein. It is not a mystical experience that occurs apart from the inerrant truth of Scripture. It is not a source of additional spiritual information or truth outside of Scripture.

The nature of our relationship with God is predicated on the 100% trustworthiness of the Bible in all that it says. The Bible teaches us what that relationship looks like and where the boundaries lie.

And there you have it in a nutshell