Where's America II?

[rollinTHUNDER]

Now as to the true remnant of Israel they will be given wings and flown to safety for 42 months. (Second half of tribulation.)

As far as being grafted When you graft something you bind the two together making the new part continue to grow with the old as one.A new seperate single unit. Amen

Now the Dragon is really angry with the woman and goes to make war with the remnant of her seed.Which keep the commandments of G-d, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. (or Gospel)Who is the womans seed? We were told earlier in the Chapter. Jesus Christ himself.

The Believers who are left after the first half of Tribulation will be the remnant of her seed.(JESUS)

Now back in Revelation 6:9-11 we learn of the souls of those slain for the Word. Crying out for vengence. They are told to wait a while longer for thier fellowservants and brethern who also will be killed as they were.(For the testimony of the Word.)

Now to Revelation 7The 144,000 are sealed then John sees a multitude which no man can number(not 144,000 he just numbered) of all nations, tongues, peoples and kindreds before the throne. Clothed in white robes and palms in hand.

One of the elders

[Adstar]

Dr Luke

Romans 11

22Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness,[1] if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off. 23And they also, if they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. 24For if you were cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, who are natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?

This says to me that we are not an added branch to the tree but we are a replacement to the branch that has been cut out.

Not all the Hebrews rejected the Messiah, a great proportion of the first Christians where Hebrews. But the ones that rejected the Messiah where and are cut out and will remain so until they accept Him as the Messiah.

All Praise The Ancient Of Days

[rollinTHUNDER]

Dr Luke

Romans 11

22Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness,[1] if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off. 23And they also, if they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. 24For if you were cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, who are natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?

This says to me that we are not an added branch to the tree but we are a replacement to the branch that has been cut out.

Not all the Hebrews rejected the Messiah, a great proportion of the first Christians where Hebrews. But the ones that rejected the Messiah where and are cut out and will remain so until they accept Him as the Messiah.

All Praise The Ancient Of Days

Hello Adstar,

I agree with everything that you said in this post, except for one sentence. It is this one:

This says to me that we are not an added branch to the tree but we are a replacement to the branch that has been cut out.

This could be treading on very dangerous waters. It sounds like the Preterist view. They believe that all prophecies were fulfilled in 70 AD. or before. They also claim that they are the New Jerusalem, and that the Jews in Israel right now are imposters. They show a complete lack of faith because they believe that the shadows of the things to come were the main events themselves. They laugh at the idea of a rapture and the second coming and even that we are in the endtimes.

That's enough about them, but we really need to be careful. We are not their replacements. Read on a little further starting in verse 25 and it says that Israel will be saved.

We are merely receiving that which they rejected, but it also says that they can still be re-graphed in, and that if we don't continue in him we can still be cut off. The church has a completely different function. She will come back to the earth with immortal bodies, but the remnant in Israel that will be spared will have to remain in their mortal bodies until they die. The Jews will labor in their current bodies that they have now.

We are put in from a wild tree, but they are from the root. We can never take their place, because we will never be from the root, that is unless you are Jewish and believe. I hope this helps.    

[Guest C.D. Light]

:biggrin:That is one of the most awesome things I've ever heard!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

[Guest C.D. Light]

Rollin -- You've got it right. And we should be very careful not to think we replace the Jews. We both have our separate places and separate function in the New Kingdom. We will rule with him as a governing body  and the Jews, Israel will finally have their peaceful existence they've always wanted and been promised by God, as humans.  We both win, and have no need to try to make ourselves a replacement for them.

They are God's Chosen, the Root, and we nevertheless the grafted in at the branches. A grafting can never become a Root of any tree. We will be complimentary with each other and it works outs quite nicely.

As for those who "come out of the Tribulation" they are those who were not adequate believers, maybe backsliders, maybe those who once believed and then totally left the faith, or possibly those who heard our message of the gospel, but did not accept it, but as soon as they SEE it coming true, they become believers.

But sadly, they will not get out alive. They will become martyed by being killed and some of it may be by being beheaded. In any event, it WILL NOT be pleasant. That is why the Bible says

NOW IS THE ACCEPTABLE TIME!

[Matthitjah]

Guys-

On the Grafting part you misunderstand me. We are grafted in.We have become part of the whole new unit.We can be rejected just like a portion of the Jews were.We can never replace the root.

Look at the beginning of the chapter you quote

Romans 11:1 I say hath G-d cast away his people? G-d forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

R 11:2 G-d hath not cast away his people which he foreknew.

My Question is if we are raptured before the mark? What Christians will be martyed? For if you were backslidden or in unbelief you will be given a strong deception. The Holy spirit is the one who will allow you not to be deceived. Yes many will come to Christ in these times. Yet those who remian in Christ will resist and be martyed for they have the Holy spirit.

When the A.C. signs the 7 year plan with the Jews. Daniels 70th week will start. The time of the Gentiles will be full at that point.

Lets look at some scripture.

Corinthians15:51 Behold I will show you a mystery;We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptable,and we shall be changed

Corinthians15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead and become the firstfruits of them that slept.

Cor 15:23But every man in his own order; Christ The firstfruits(dead): aftrerward they that are Christ's at his coming.

The last Trump

Revelation 8;2 And I saw the seven angels which stood before G-d: and to them were given seven trumpets.

Rev 11;15 And the seventh angel sounded: saying, The kindoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ: And he shall reign for ever and ever.

Now I'm still learning alot about prophecy. Yet this I can read.

Revelation14;12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are they that keep the commandments of G-d, and the faith of JesusRev14;13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord henceforth; Yea, saith the spirit, that they may rest from their labours: and their works do follow them.

This followed the stern warning not to take the mark of the beast.

The foolish Virgins were shut out of the wedding, Likewise the man without the proper garment.

What happens after a wedding? The Bride doesn't return with the groom to vanquish. She and the groom usually party with the guests and then they consummate the deal. This is the reason for the parable to liken to a marriage.

I'm not seeing the pre trib rapture where I look.

As for the Elect again. In Matthew 24;24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false Prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders: insomuch that, if it were (it won't be ,because of the holy spirit and also the next verse 25." Behold I have told you") possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

Why would Jews go after a false Christ? Why would Christians go after a prophet? He must be referring to all the elect Jewish and Christian. Those under grace and those who are accounted for grace. From the past.

Please show me some pre trib scripture. Don't crucify me. I want to learn.

Yours in Christ. Amen

[Adstar]

rollinTHUNDER

You said

Hello Adstar,

I agree with everything that you said in this post, except for one sentence. It is this one:

This says to me that we are not an added branch to the tree but we are a replacement to the branch that has been cut out.

[rollinTHUNDER]

Hello Adstar,

I'm sorry bro, I must have given you the wrong impression of what I was trying to say. Basicly, I was in agreement with your previous post, except for that one sentence. That one sentence only reminded me of the preterists. I didn't think you were a preterist, but I was concerned that it would be possible for them to mislead you if you ever ran into them, which you probably will soon, because they are spreading their nonsense around now like wildfire. I know you are not one of them now, and hopefully you never will be.

Back to the subject. If there are Jews in Israel now that believe in Christ, then they are christians and not Jews. They are our brothers. As for the rest that are athiests or are trying to be under the law, these may be some of the ones who believe after the bride, and then later the martyrs have been taken to heaven. These Jews, the remnant are the ones who will repopulate Israel. Only God knows who His elect will be, but we won't know, and neither will they know until after we are gone. God will protect them from harm for 42 months, the rest of the tribulation. They will believe that Christ is there Messiah, but they will be too late to be part of the church. They are Israel, and thus, all Israel will be saved through this remnant and God who spares them.

Adstar, I am sorry if I offended you. I never intended to, but I guess I should have chosen my words a little more carefully. I really do appreciate your input. And I want to thank you and everyone else that participated in this latest subject, even if it was a little off topic. I felt like we really started digging into a delicious meal, with solid meat. The things we discussed here, most believers aren't even aware of. That's because most believers Bibles are covered with dust. It's hard to reach your potential in Christ if they don't quit chasing after the things in the world and lusting after fleshly things. But I actually believe that their are new believers learning from what we write on this forum, even if they are not replying. My thanks to you Adstar, C.D., Dr. Luke and Lorie; And thanks be to the Holy Spirit for providing the strong meat and even a little bit of milk too!!

[Adstar]

Amen rollinTHUNDER

I was not "offended" by your post. I know it is sometimes hard to know what is going on emotionally in others we are conversing with on the boards. I always try to be mindful of the need to communicate in a serious manner about serious subjects and we cannot get more serious subjects than the ones where dealing with.

Yes the number of people who look at these posts is far greater than the number who take part in the discussion we must always remember that.

Bless all who have contributed and read these posts.

All Praise The Ancient Of Days

[rollinTHUNDER]

Some folks are messin' where they should not be messin'!! And one of them is the leader from America. Do they really know who's land they are trying to divide up?? And do you think their time frame will fit in with God's timetable??

Here's the link: http://www.arabia.com/afp....00.html

EU pushes Israel down 'road map' to peace

October 21, 2002, 04:03 PM

LUXEMBOURG (AFP) - The European Union urged Israel in talks here to implement an international plan to end the Middle East bloodshed by creating a Palestinian state within three years.

After a meeting with Israeli Foreign Minister Shimon Peres, the EU's Danish presidency urged a resolution to the "extremely volatile situation in the Middle East and continued violence from both sides".

"The dire humanitarian situation and the continued expansion of settlements are seriously endangering the prospects for a resumption of political talks," Danish Foreign Minister Per Stig Moeller told a joint news conference with Peres.

"I urged Israel to take concrete steps to ensure progress on all these issues and to engage constructively in the establishment and implementation of the road map to create a Palestinian state by 2005," Moeller said.

He spoke a few hours before a car bomb killed at least seven people and wounded almost 40 others in northern Israel, dealing a further blow to efforts to revive the peace process.

A diplomatic quartet on the Middle East comprising the EU, the United Nations, the United States and Russia plans to unveil fuller details of its proposed "road map" to peace next month, Palestinian international cooperation minister Nabil Shaath said in Copenhagen last Friday.

The quartet met in New York in September and agreed on a general framework to ensure peace and stability in the Middle East -- crucially including the aim of creating a Palestinian state by 2005 -- but failed to fill in the details.

Peres said Israel was studying the draft proposal and reaffirmed his general acceptance of its goals.

"We accept this vision which includes also a solution comprising two states that live in friendly relations and economic cooperation," he told the news conference.

"We are interested in achieving the goals that are set up in the vision of the quartet."

The Israeli minister indicated that the ball was in the Palestinian court after the Jewish state said it was willing to progress on a number of demands made by the authority of Yasser Arafat and the international community.

This included releasing some 250 million dollars in Palestinian customs and tax revenues seized by Israel, "provided there are mechanisms so the money will not go to terrorist purposes or terroristic organisations", Peres said.

The Israeli economy would be reopened to Palestinian workers and Jewish settlements built illegally on occupied land would be dismantled.

The EU's foreign policy envoy, Javier Solana, said it was time to stop talking and start acting to end the cycle of violence convulsing the Middle East.

"We have had so many papers already. What we need now is the will to put these papers into motion," he said.

The EU also tackled Peres over a long-running dispute involving trade in goods made by settlers living on occupied Palestinian territories.

The EU has for five years been pressing the Jewish state to stop labelling produce made by the settlers as "made in Israel", and has warned importers of orange juice and other goods that they face excess levies.

Trade agreements with the 15-nation bloc mean that goods labelled "made in Israel" get preferential treatment from EU customs authorities, with many escaping import duties altogether.

The Union, however, insists such agreements only apply to the internationally recognised territory of Israel and not to the occupied territories. It is getting frustrated with perceived Israeli foot-dragging over the issue.

Peres reaffirmed an Israeli offer of technical talks about the issue. The EU demanded concrete progress early next year, officials said.