Warning on rapture speculation

[RCruise]

rollin:

I called the "Pre-trib theory" a lie.  I ALWAYS do and have done so.  Now, if you are espousing that lie, then so be what you teach falsely but, I never called you directly a liar.  Get over it.  And you did not prove squat with one verse and that was what my post was about originally.  As far as Kenneth Copeland goes, I have never attacked the man's salvation and he is not my brother.  He preaches lies, deciet, mammon, says blasphemous things like "man is a little God", "I am too.." (meaning he is as God is "I AM THAT I AM"), "Jesus was conquered by satan on the cross" and, the list goes on.

So, maybe if you quit looking to these liars as brothers and see the truth that they are enemies of the Gospel, you might not tend to classify yourself with the liars.  I certainly didn't do it to you.

God Bless.

[rollinTHUNDER]

rollin:

I called the "Pre-trib theory" a lie.

[eve]

May I butt in?

[Matthitjah]

Eve,

I am addresing Eve's post.

You are  correct in your post's. I only have difficulty understanding when Trib ends and Wrath begins. Your post's have been helpful

:thumb:

I have tried to posit the  post trib theory with scripture. As have you. I will not contend on this subject anymore. I will  when it comes to a new believer or someone asking a question. The post trib seems to be in the vocal minority.

An old parlimentary trick is if you can't beat an idea on it's merit. You shout it down or you simply resort to demonizing those who posit it.

I have learned many things thru debate on the boards. I think that we are seeing the very fruits spoken of in the original post that started this very series. Some may ( I said some not naming names certainly not true beleivers. Some may "wax cold and iniquity abound" When they see the Tribulation come to pass and feel as if G-d let them down. It won't be G-d letting them down . It will be mans fallible interpretation.

We may all be in for surprises we didn't expect. The disciples didn't expect Jesus to be crucified even though he had told them so on seveal different occasions . Scripture also dictated it.

I will leave it at Matthew 24:25 BEHOLD, I HAVE TOLD YOU BEFORE."

Peace :inlove: Amen

[eve]

Dr Luke, hi

I've just made a post on the Prophecy topic. Also I would like to address a little bit regarding the 4 horsemen in Rev Chap. 6 (the seals) whereby Jesus also mentioned about in Matt Chap 24, and a few other things...but some other time as I gotta go now.  I'll be back soon.

God bless.

[wordsower]

Dr. Luke,

I think it is best we all put our trust in Jesus--no matter what and be ready when He comes.  Pre/mid/post should not divide the church.  

Love ya doc!  Blessings and see ya in heaven this or that side of the trib :thumb:

[Matthitjah]

Amen Wordsower,

Exactly my point.

Whatever situation we find ourselves in. We are all safe in Jesus.

Love back at you :thumb: Blessings to you my friend.

Peace :inlove: Amen

[rollinTHUNDER]

I hope all you post-trib believers don't believe this nonsense about the pre-tribbers turning on the church in the tribulation. I am ready to give my head now, but you can't blame us for having our blessed hope. The guy that wrote that article has taken all the scriptures out of context. He doesn't even understand the great falling away.

The truth is: the heretics the Bible speaks of isn't pre, mid or post-trib because we are all still waiting on the Lord to come. It is the Preterists that you have to watch out for. Look at these scriptures:

2 Peter 3: 3-4 - "First of all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires. (4)They will say, "Where is this coming he promised? Ever since our fathers died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation."

2 Tim. 2: 16-18 - "Avoid godless chatter, because those who indulge in it will become more and more ungodly. (17)Their teaching will spread like gangrene. Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus, who have wandered away from the truth. They say that the resurrection has already taken place, and they destroy the faith of some."

These are the heresies that we are to watch out for in these last days. We need to be careful who we listen to. This man is paranoid and fearful who wrote this article. I consider mid and post-tribbers equal brothers along with us pre-tribbers. We are all waiting for the same Lord. The only difference is the time we think He will come. Big deal!! We should know that the Lord made it a mystery on purpose. All we need to do is be ready.

[rollinTHUNDER]

Mathew 24 is mostly referring to the tribulation, not the rapture that you post-trib believers like to combine with the second coming. The resurrection and second coming were common knowledge, but none of the gospels mentioned the rapture. In Matt. 24:3 the disciples didn't question Jesus about being "caught up", but rather about His second coming. The second coming will have signs, but them being caught up will come upon then suddenly, like a thief in the night and as quickly as a twinkling of an eye, or faster than you can blink. Also, they asked this question before the mystery of the rapture had even been revealed to them, so at the time, they had no knowledge of the rapture whatsoever. It was Paul that revealed to them this mystery, but Paul wasn't even a believer at this time, in fact, he was trying to destroy the church. Paul did not believe until after Christ had already ascended to heaven. But the disciples asked Jesus this question before Christ was even crucified. They didn't even know that He was going to die for the sins of the world, even after Jesus repeatedly warned them. So, they could have only been talking about the second coming then, and not the rapture that you pre-tribbers like to combine with the second coming. There now, that kinda sheds a different light on the subject doesn't it??

This is the first revelation of the mysterious rapture:

1 Corr. 15: 51-52 - "Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed--(52)in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed."

It was Paul who revealed this mystery. He also wrote most of the New Testament. The disciples in Mathew 24:3 hadn't been paying very close attention to what Jesus was telling them. Peter went on to deny Him three times and the rest of them were also fearful, not even knowing that their Master was to be crucified, even after He repeatedly told them the time was coming. This time was also before they had received the Holy Spirit, which didn't happen until after Christ had ascended back to heaven. So the disciples at that time, not only did they not have the Spirit in them, but they were also unable to discern the spiritual things, because it is impossible without the Holy Spirit living inside of a believer.

Listen to what Jesus told His disciples before He ascended:

John 16: 12-13 - "I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. (13)But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on His own; He will speak only what He hears, and He will tell you what is yet to come."

Also, How could Jesus tell them when He was coming for them if He did not know that time Himself?? Jesus said that He didn't know, nor the angels, but only His Father. In the traditional Jewish wedding, the father would not send his son to get the bride until he aproved of the son's provisions for his bride. That's where Jesus said He was going, to prepare a place for his bride. But guess what, He is still building it, and He will not be finished until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled. Then Jacob's trouble will begin.

[Guest C.D. Light]

yod-- Isiah 45:4 Israel, Mine Elect.