spiritman Posted August 21, 2010 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 127 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,131 Content Per Day: 0.16 Reputation: 23 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/22/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/25/1962 Share Posted August 21, 2010 You bring up a case in point with that passage from Joshua....human logic would tell you it is an impossibility for such a thing to happen, and that this portion of Scripture is pure fantasy...faith will tell you that G-d made it happen, and the natural laws that we have codified were suspended....very much in the same vein that the Heavens and the Earth were originally created....you get those that will tell you it could not happen the way it is described in Genesis as cosmological and physics laws would be broken...light can't come from some other source etc etc. The problem with the passage is not that it describes a miracle, it's that it describes both the sun and moon as moving relative to the earth when we know that in point of fact the earth moves relative to the sun. This reflects the common geocentric cosmology of the time. Lurker Interesting point of view Lurker; But consider my point of veiw for a second. Let's say that in that era, Joshua knew about the way the heavens moved, I doubt it though considering more than likely if one looks it up, you may find it's more likely that this knowledge did not come into play until around Galieo's time, when the first telescopes where invented. If Joshua thought that the Sun Moved around the earth, and instead God stopped the Earth from moving, would it still not appear even if it were the earth that stopped, that to Joshua it would apprear as if the Sun had stopped? I don't see anywhere here in this passages or surrounding passages where God explains how He did it, do you? Peace and blessings to you Lurker spiritman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Botz Posted August 22, 2010 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 76 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,492 Content Per Day: 0.61 Reputation: 191 Days Won: 18 Joined: 03/29/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted August 22, 2010 You bring up a case in point with that passage from Joshua....human logic would tell you it is an impossibility for such a thing to happen, and that this portion of Scripture is pure fantasy...faith will tell you that G-d made it happen, and the natural laws that we have codified were suspended....very much in the same vein that the Heavens and the Earth were originally created....you get those that will tell you it could not happen the way it is described in Genesis as cosmological and physics laws would be broken...light can't come from some other source etc etc. The problem with the passage is not that it describes a miracle, it's that it describes both the sun and moon as moving relative to the earth when we know that in point of fact the earth moves relative to the sun. This reflects the common geocentric cosmology of the time. Lurker Hey Lurker...I can't really see the problem...the biblical description demonstrates that for all intents and purposes the sun and the moon stood still....that was the observable reality to Joshua and the Israelites.....G-d was not giving some definitive descriptions on the way these heavenly bodies function....it was simply recorded what happened before their very eyes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorningGlory Posted August 22, 2010 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1,022 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 39,193 Content Per Day: 6.11 Reputation: 9,977 Days Won: 78 Joined: 10/01/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted August 22, 2010 You bring up a case in point with that passage from Joshua....human logic would tell you it is an impossibility for such a thing to happen, and that this portion of Scripture is pure fantasy...faith will tell you that G-d made it happen, and the natural laws that we have codified were suspended....very much in the same vein that the Heavens and the Earth were originally created....you get those that will tell you it could not happen the way it is described in Genesis as cosmological and physics laws would be broken...light can't come from some other source etc etc. The problem with the passage is not that it describes a miracle, it's that it describes both the sun and moon as moving relative to the earth when we know that in point of fact the earth moves relative to the sun. This reflects the common geocentric cosmology of the time. Lurker Hey Lurker...I can't really see the problem...the biblical description demonstrates that for all intents and purposes the sun and the moon stood still....that was the observable reality to Joshua and the Israelites.....G-d was not giving some definitive descriptions on the way these heavenly bodies function....it was simply recorded what happened before their very eyes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fez Posted August 22, 2010 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 683 Topics Per Day: 0.12 Content Count: 11,128 Content Per Day: 2.00 Reputation: 1,352 Days Won: 54 Joined: 02/03/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/07/1952 Share Posted August 22, 2010 I don't give an owls hoot how old the universe is. But I know it's starting point if it helps anyone. "In the beginning"........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johndavid316 Posted October 7, 2010 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 32 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/05/2010 Status: Offline Share Posted October 7, 2010 If you take the literal interpretation to be true, the heavens and the earth were created at the same time. So if the earth is about 6,000 years old, then so is the universe. However that poses a problem. If the stars are as far away as currently accepted, it would have taken millions, if not billions of years for their light to get here. In a universe that is only 6,000 years old, you cannot accept this. In order to keep the 6,000 year old universe, one of two things must change. Either the speed of light has gotten slower since God created the universe...which doesn't seem plausible because the speed of light is a constant, or the stars are a lot closer than we currently believe now. However, if you believe the latter, the farthest star should be only 6,000 light years away. If every single star in the entire universe was 6,000 light years away or less, our night sky would be ridiculously bright. Can you imagine? It would be AMAZING!! Well, if that is the case, since our sky is not incredibly bright at night time, we can fix this by saying that all of the other stars are much dimmer than our own sun. Basically in order to believe the literal interpretation of the Genesis account AND that the earth is only 6,000 years old, you must throw out all conventional knowledge of physics and astronomy. But this is why we have faith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorningGlory Posted October 14, 2010 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1,022 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 39,193 Content Per Day: 6.11 Reputation: 9,977 Days Won: 78 Joined: 10/01/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted October 14, 2010 If you take the literal interpretation to be true, the heavens and the earth were created at the same time. So if the earth is about 6,000 years old, then so is the universe. However that poses a problem. If the stars are as far away as currently accepted, it would have taken millions, if not billions of years for their light to get here. In a universe that is only 6,000 years old, you cannot accept this. In order to keep the 6,000 year old universe, one of two things must change. Either the speed of light has gotten slower since God created the universe...which doesn't seem plausible because the speed of light is a constant, or the stars are a lot closer than we currently believe now. However, if you believe the latter, the farthest star should be only 6,000 light years away. If every single star in the entire universe was 6,000 light years away or less, our night sky would be ridiculously bright. Can you imagine? It would be AMAZING!! Well, if that is the case, since our sky is not incredibly bright at night time, we can fix this by saying that all of the other stars are much dimmer than our own sun. Basically in order to believe the literal interpretation of the Genesis account AND that the earth is only 6,000 years old, you must throw out all conventional knowledge of physics and astronomy. But this is why we have faith. I believe the universe has been here for billions of years; ever since God spoke it into existence. The Bible doesn't tell us there was NOTHING when God created life on Earth. It tells us the Earth was void and covered with water. Pretty much what science tells us. Man (our species) has only been here for 6 to 10,000 years. Science can tell us that as well. The Bible also doesn't tell us that God may have wiped the slate clean and started over.....which I believe may have happened but.....I'm only speculating. We don't know how time was measured in the beginning either. No matter; we will know when we finally stand before Him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spiritman Posted October 22, 2010 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 127 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,131 Content Per Day: 0.16 Reputation: 23 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/22/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/25/1962 Share Posted October 22, 2010 If you take the literal interpretation to be true, the heavens and the earth were created at the same time. So if the earth is about 6,000 years old, then so is the universe. However that poses a problem. If the stars are as far away as currently accepted, it would have taken millions, if not billions of years for their light to get here. In a universe that is only 6,000 years old, you cannot accept this. In order to keep the 6,000 year old universe, one of two things must change. Either the speed of light has gotten slower since God created the universe...which doesn't seem plausible because the speed of light is a constant, or the stars are a lot closer than we currently believe now. However, if you believe the latter, the farthest star should be only 6,000 light years away. If every single star in the entire universe was 6,000 light years away or less, our night sky would be ridiculously bright. Can you imagine? It would be AMAZING!! Well, if that is the case, since our sky is not incredibly bright at night time, we can fix this by saying that all of the other stars are much dimmer than our own sun. Basically in order to believe the literal interpretation of the Genesis account AND that the earth is only 6,000 years old, you must throw out all conventional knowledge of physics and astronomy. But this is why we have faith. http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=39733 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorningGlory Posted October 22, 2010 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1,022 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 39,193 Content Per Day: 6.11 Reputation: 9,977 Days Won: 78 Joined: 10/01/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted October 22, 2010 Man (our species) has only been here for 6 to 10,000 years. Science can tell us that as well. I don't mind you believing that our species is only 10K yrs old. But once you start throwing around "science", you better have something. The scientific consensus is that modern humans are no less than 50K yrs old. And we've discovered anatomically modern humans up to 195K yrs ago; which means according to science our species has been here nearly 20 times longer than your upper limit. Again, you can believe whatever you want, but don't say that science confirms your beliefs unless it actually does. I said what I mean and I mean what I say. Are you another one of those 'scientists' who pop up here like clockwork? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorningGlory Posted October 22, 2010 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1,022 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 39,193 Content Per Day: 6.11 Reputation: 9,977 Days Won: 78 Joined: 10/01/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted October 22, 2010 Spiritman, The speed of light has changed by less than 0.001% in the past 13 billion years. Scientists can test this. What is the source for this information? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorningGlory Posted October 22, 2010 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1,022 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 39,193 Content Per Day: 6.11 Reputation: 9,977 Days Won: 78 Joined: 10/01/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted October 22, 2010 Geneologies work only if you know how long each person lived and when. Exactly! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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