Claim Jesus, but not speak out for him?

[nebula]

No, it's to love God and be in fellowship with Him.

Right, and that's what Jesus came to do, to restore the fellowship we can have with God. He came for us, for us to have fellowship with God. He didn't come on His own behalf, He came because sent Him to heal our relationship with Him.

You make it sound like this worship song is theologically incorrect.

Should it be changed to:

"It's all about me, Jesus

And all this is for me . . ."

Seriously, why does Father want us to have fellowship with Him?

And it is to bring the world into reconciliation with Him.

2 Corinthians 5:19 "namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation."

God already accomplished this, that's not our responsibility.

I wasn't saying it was our responsibility.

As far as reconciliation, it's a done deal. Do you know what reconciliation means? The root word is, Concile; to bring together...reconciliation means to bring back together, we(man) were with Him in full fellowship in the Garden but that was lost and now through the cross God has brought that back.

Right, - and why does Father want that?

I also find it quite interesting how you take things out of context. You quote that whole passage but seem to forget that Paul was talking about himself and his calling and why he was doing it.

2 Corinthians 12 "We are not again commending ourselves to you but are giving you an occasion to be proud of us, so that you will have an answer for those who take pride in appearance and not in heart. 13For if we are beside ourselves, it is for God; if we are of sound mind, it is for you. 14For the love of Christ controls us....

Paul is not talking about the whole body has recieved this call, this charge or responisibility, no, Paul was telling about his to combat claims made against him by opposition "Super Apostles." Just because you apply this to yourself and all Christianity doesn't make it so. In fact because you use Paul's words as though they are you, you are acknowledging you are quite in error.

The "Super Apostles" are mentioned in ch. 12. I quoted from chapter 5.

Are you claiming that the entirety of 2 Corinthians is Paul talking about himself?

Does that mean his talk about treasures in jars of clay (ch. 4) is about himself only? It doesn't apply to the whole body?

Your interpretation of Scripture is quite odd.

Howcome you don't use Jesus' words the same? Jesus said, "I am the truth the life and the way." So does that mean that all Christians are the truth the life and the way? Jesus said, "I am the ressurection" does that mean that all Christians are the ressurection?

Paul did not say, "I."

Of course not, then why when Paul says it it means all Christians? He wasnt teaching who all Christians were, he was defending whom Paul was.

So when Paul talked about his thorn in the flesh, and the Lord said, "My grace is sufficient for you," does that have no meaning or relevance to us, either, because that was a personal word spoken to Paul?

[nebula]

So this is where I guess you explain why Vines Expository Dictionary is an unreliable source?

Never heard of it.

Considering that's one source, and is highly regarded. Strongs is a highly unreliable source also?

What does Strongs or Vines have to do with your theological interpretation?

I guess you aren't really interested in discussion but only in arguing. I made some points, with reliable sources and presented them and all you do is insult.

No, I'm just so dumbfounded that I don't know how to respond.

It's a female thing.

It's going to take my emotions a while to settle on this before I can answer with my mind.

[nebula]

I guess there's a lot of stones crying out around your home, huh?

very passive aggressive, uncalled for, judgemental remark, neb.

please don't blame your gender regarding the words you post. we react with emotions, yes. but we also choose with our minds what to post. i can see not being in a good frame of mind, but it's not a "female thing". to say this is to say that people can disregard anything a female says, because she is speaking from emotion and not the mind.

I'm just saying that I'm reacting with my emotions.

When he said: "Glorify, All of Creation praises and sings His name. It's a Psalm, not our duty." - how is it judgmental for me to say the stones around his home must be crying out . . . because by his words, he isn't.

[nebula]

by the words you see on this board. you know absolutely nothing about the rest of what goes on in his life. or do you?

Words have value, do they not?

Do not testimonies rise or fall in a court of law based on what words one speaks?

he may not be praising God. still though, you don't know that. the rocks crying out is akin to casting the first stone. is it not?

I was making a point.

If you believe that to be casting a stone, then so be it.

[nebula]

Now that I've had time to contemplate, here is an illustration for what is bothering me by what Pete said:

Let's say the discussion was about marital love.

Imagine a disagreement between me and another woman - note that this woman has been happily married for many years.

So to defend and explain my position, I pull out the Webster's dictionary on what the definition of "love" is and paraphrase from a respected Christian counselor.

Imagine the other woman giving me a puzzled look and responding, "You're crazy."

Now would you discount her as just wanting to argue or as casting stones because she responded out of dumbfoundedness as to how wrong she perceived my understanding to be?

So here I am reading:

Glorify, All of Creation praises and sings His name. It's a Psalm, not our duty.

In my mind I'm thinking such Scriptures as "Declare His glory among the nations, His wonderful deeds among all peoples," and "Give thanks to the Lord for He is good," and "Make a joyful noise unto the Lord all you lands"

yet his statement comes across as regarding these words from the Psalm as inconsequential.

And then I read:

Glorify, do you even know what that word means? I assume you think it means to have a big shinny light or worship and such....

Did I attack him for being argumentative or judgmental? No, but I sure could have!

He assigned to me his interpretation of my knowledge and perception without my having said anything on the matter.

Then he continues:

however that's not what the word means, it means to have ones opinion raised. For instance, if I swore at you your opinion of me would lessen however if I said you were a great person your opinion of me would raise, the riasing is the glorifying.

OK, so looking at the definition from an on-line New Testament of Vine's (hmm . . . where's the OT version? Oh well) -

Glorify

[ 1,,G1392, doxazo ]

primarily denotes to suppose" (from doxa, "an opinion"); in the NT

(a) "to magnify, extol, praise" (See doxa below), especially of "glorifying;" God, i.e., ascribing honor to Him, acknowledging Him as to His being, attributes and acts, i.e., His glory (See GLORY), e.g., Matthew 5:16; Matthew 9:8; Matthew 15:31; Romans 15:6,9; Galatians 1:24; 1 Peter 4:16; the Word of the Lord, Acts 13:48; the Name of the Lord, Revelation 15:4; also of "glorifying" oneself, John 8:54; Revelation 18:7;

(b) "to do honor to, to make glorious, e.g., Romans 8:30; 2 Corinthians 3:10; 1 Peter 1:8, "full of glory," Passive Voice (lit., "glorified"); said of Christ, e.g., John 7:39; John 8:54, RV, "glorifieth," for AV, "honor" and "honoreth" (which would translate timao, "to honor"); of the Father, e.g., John 13:31,32; John 21:19; 1 Peter 4:11; of "glorifying" one's ministry, Romans 11:13, RV, "glorify" (AV, "magnify"); of a member of the body, 1 Corinthians 12:26, "be honored" (RV marg., "be glorified").

Looking up "glorify in Strong's Hebrew Lexicon:

Transliterated Word - Pa'ar

Definition

1. to glorify, beautify, adorn

1. (Piel) to glorify, beautify

2. (Hithpael)

1. to glorify oneself

2. to get glory to oneself, be glorified

2. (Piel) to go over the boughs

King James Word Usage - Total: 14

glorify 7, beautify 3, boast 1,go over the boughs 1, Glory 1, vaunt 1

So where is this definition of "glorify" that he claims?

Finally, he ends with:

God is glorified by what Jesus did, because of what Jesus did I think of God in a much "higher" regard.

And all I can think of is, "Is this what Father means to him?"

Thus I am dumbfounded.

I've felt the presence of the Lord come over me in such a way that it literally felt like a gentle rain falling on a parched, dry ground.

I know what it literally is to have my knees buckle at the glory (kabod) of the Lord.

And he wants to tell me that "glorify" means having a raised opinion?

[Fez]

Now that I've had time to contemplate, here is an illustration for what is bothering me by what Pete said:

Let's say the discussion was about marital love.

Imagine a disagreement between me and another woman - note that this woman has been happily married for many years.

So to defend and explain my position, I pull out the Webster's dictionary on what the definition of "love" is and paraphrase from a respected Christian counselor.

Imagine the other woman giving me a puzzled look and responding, "You're crazy."

Now would you discount her as just wanting to argue or as casting stones because she responded out of dumbfoundedness as to how wrong she perceived my understanding to be?

So here I am reading:

Glorify, All of Creation praises and sings His name. It's a Psalm, not our duty.

In my mind I'm thinking such Scriptures as "Declare His glory among the nations, His wonderful deeds among all peoples," and "Give thanks to the Lord for He is good," and "Make a joyful noise unto the Lord all you lands"

yet his statement comes across as regarding these words from the Psalm as inconsequential.

And then I read:

Glorify, do you even know what that word means? I assume you think it means to have a big shinny light or worship and such....

Did I attack him for being argumentative or judgmental? No, but I sure could have!

He assigned to me his interpretation of my knowledge and perception without my having said anything on the matter.

Then he continues:

however that's not what the word means, it means to have ones opinion raised. For instance, if I swore at you your opinion of me would lessen however if I said you were a great person your opinion of me would raise, the riasing is the glorifying.

OK, so looking at the definition from an on-line New Testament of Vine's (hmm . . . where's the OT version? Oh well) -

Glorify

[ 1,,G1392, doxazo ]

primarily denotes to suppose" (from doxa, "an opinion"); in the NT

(a) "to magnify, extol, praise" (See doxa below), especially of "glorifying;" God, i.e., ascribing honor to Him, acknowledging Him as to His being, attributes and acts, i.e., His glory (See GLORY), e.g., Matthew 5:16; Matthew 9:8; Matthew 15:31; Romans 15:6,9; Galatians 1:24; 1 Peter 4:16; the Word of the Lord, Acts 13:48; the Name of the Lord, Revelation 15:4; also of "glorifying" oneself, John 8:54; Revelation 18:7;

(b) "to do honor to, to make glorious, e.g., Romans 8:30; 2 Corinthians 3:10; 1 Peter 1:8, "full of glory," Passive Voice (lit., "glorified"); said of Christ, e.g., John 7:39; John 8:54, RV, "glorifieth," for AV, "honor" and "honoreth" (which would translate timao, "to honor"); of the Father, e.g., John 13:31,32; John 21:19; 1 Peter 4:11; of "glorifying" one's ministry, Romans 11:13, RV, "glorify" (AV, "magnify"); of a member of the body, 1 Corinthians 12:26, "be honored" (RV marg., "be glorified").

Looking up "glorify in Strong's Hebrew Lexicon:

Transliterated Word - Pa'ar

Definition

1. to glorify, beautify, adorn

1. (Piel) to glorify, beautify

2. (Hithpael)

1. to glorify oneself

2. to get glory to oneself, be glorified

2. (Piel) to go over the boughs

King James Word Usage - Total: 14

glorify 7, beautify 3, boast 1,go over the boughs 1, Glory 1, vaunt 1

So where is this definition of "glorify" that he claims?

Finally, he ends with:

God is glorified by what Jesus did, because of what Jesus did I think of God in a much "higher" regard.

And all I can think of is, "Is this what Father means to him?"

Thus I am dumbfounded.

I've felt the presence of the Lord come over me in such a way that it literally felt like a gentle rain falling on a parched, dry ground.

I know what it literally is to have my knees buckle at the glory (kabod) of the Lord.

And he wants to tell me that "glorify" means having a raised opinion?

Makes perfect sense to me Neb. I like the posts that I read to be succinct and to the point. when there is a whole lot thrown out there (sometimes it is necessary). i, like you in your previous answer, just don't know where to start answering.....

[~candice~]

I actually understand this:

God is glorified by what Jesus did, because of what Jesus did I think of God in a much "higher" regard.

It's hard for some people to fathom and understand God's love for us. When we can think upon Jesus as an expression of God's love, personified, it is much easier. I love dwelling on the sacrifice of Christ and it does help me to hold God in a "higher" regard because I would be a little lost for a reference without Christ.

It's because the sacrifice of Christ blows my mind. I hold Him in a 'higher regard' [let's not play semantics here] because I finally have something that shows the magnitude of the sacrifice. Without the sacrifice I wouldn't understand the magnitude and wouldn't regard God high enough with my own feeble imaginations about what His love might be like.

Phew that was hard to explain...

[SlipperyPete]

Glorify

[ 1,,G1392, doxazo ]

primarily denotes to suppose" (from doxa, "an opinion"); in the NT

(a) "to magnify

The reason why there is no vines old testament is because it's an expository of new testament words, Greek interlinear.

Now as to why you don't see the definition, because you decided not to cut and paste it, here's the link, http://www.antioch.com.sg/cgi-bin/bible/vi...efn.pl?num=1201

and what is first written;

Glory, Glorious

A. Nouns

doxa

kleos

B. Adjective

endoxos

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A1. Glory, Glorious [Noun]

doxa "glory" (from dokeo, "to seem"), primarily signifies an opinion, estimate, and hence, the honor resulting from a good opinion. It is used

(I)

(a) of the nature and acts of God in self-manifestation,

Like I said, Through God's acts, our opinion of Him is raised therfore we regard Him in a higher way.

I don't mind you having your own opinion Nebula, but don't try to discredit what others say with a 2 second study on google.

It's hard for some people to fathom and understand God's love for us. When we can think upon Jesus as an expression of God's love, personified, it is much easier. I love dwelling on the sacrifice of Christ and it does help me to hold God in a "higher" regard because I would be a little lost for a reference without Christ.

It's because the sacrifice of Christ blows my mind. I hold Him in a 'higher regard' [let's not play semantics here] because I finally have something that shows the magnitude of the sacrifice. Without the sacrifice I wouldn't understand the magnitude and wouldn't regard God high enough with my own feeble imaginations about what His love might be like.

Phew that was hard to explain...

I think you did a good job, let me expand on that....

The average person who doesn't have any leaning towards or away from God really has no value of Him, thus their regard for God isn't very high. Now a person who goes through an encounter with God and lets say recieves a healing. Now that person tells someone about what God did for them, that person because they care about thier friend says God did this for you, WOW that's amazing maybe He is real. Because of what God did for that person they went out glorifying (telling of the goodness) God did and because of that their friend was effected by the Glory (the testimony of God's good works) of God and thus had their opinion raised.

So now lets apply that to what Nebula said,

In my mind I'm thinking such Scriptures as "Declare His glory among the nations, His wonderful deeds among all peoples," and "Give thanks to the Lord for He is good," and "Make a joyful noise unto the Lord all you lands"

Declare the goodness of God among the nations, His wonderful deeds among all peoples.....yup sounds right.

Give thanks to the Lord for He is good....this is what I have just said.

Make a joyful noise unto the Lord all you lands...this is praise, not glorifying.

Praising someone of something is simply giving value to the person or item. Everytime you say, "Man this band is awsome" you are praising that band, and the praising may actually cause someones opinion of the band to increase, thus it becomes praising and glorifying.

[Guest]

Now also when I am old and grayheaded, O God, forsake me not;

until I have shewed thy strength unto this generation, and thy power to every one that is to come. Psalms 71:8

So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say,

We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do. Luke 17:10

>>>>>()<<<<<

The passage you call the great commission was never meant to enlist the entire believing body.

Well

And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart: And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up. Deuteronomy 6:6-7

Are

And some of them were men of Cyprus and Cyrene, which, when they were come to Antioch, spake unto the Grecians, preaching the Lord Jesus.

And the hand of the Lord was with them: and a great number believed, and turned unto the Lord. Acts 11:20-21

Some

What I tell you in darkness, that speak ye in light: and what ye hear in the ear, that preach ye upon the housetops. Matthew 10:27

Ashamed?

For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. Romans 1:16

Or Does Their Tongue Belong To Another?

Saying, Did not we straitly command you that ye should not teach in this name? and, behold, ye have filled Jerusalem with your doctrine, and intend to bring this man's blood upon us. Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men. Acts 5:29

>>>>>()<<<<<

But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear: 1 Peter 3:15

That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world; Holding forth the word of life; that I may rejoice in the day of Christ, that I have not run in vain, neither laboured in vain. Philippians 2:15-16

Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels. Mark 8:36

>>>>>()<<<<<

Believe

He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. John 3:36

And Be Blessed Beloved

Thy words were found, and I did eat them; and thy word was unto me the joy and rejoicing of mine heart: for I am called by thy name, O LORD God of hosts. Jeremiah 15:16

Love, Joe

I will sing of the mercies of the LORD for ever: with my mouth will I make known thy faithfulness to all generations. Psalms 89:1

[Guest]

....I guess you aren't really interested in discussion but only in arguing. I made some points, with reliable sources and presented them and all you do is insult....

....No, I'm just so dumbfounded that I don't know how to respond.....

It's Really Quite Simple Beloved Sister

And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, 2 Timothy 2:24

Some Provoke To Love

And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works: Hebrews 10:24

Some Don't

Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,

Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil; 1 Corinthians 13:4-5

Some Are Brothers

A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.

By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another. John 13:34-35

Some Just Can Not Show Jesus

But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy. James 3:17

So Forgive The Snips, The Snaps And The Snipes

Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you. Luke 6:28

And Forgive The Poor Man Who Slips Vain Thoughts Over Holy Words

Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. 2 Peter 1:20

Of God

Thy word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments endureth for ever. Psalms 119:160

>>>>>()<<<<<

Be Blessed Beloved Daughter Of The KING

And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father. Galatians 4:6

Love, Your Brother Joe

Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord; Ephesians 5:19