Shin Bet Agent Breaks Cover in US for 'Son of Hamas'

[Guest shiloh357]

QUOTE (shiloh357 @ Jul 4 2010, 08:17 AM)

When I think of "crazy" and "outlandish" I have an excpectation of truly incredible claims. Nothing you have presented comes up with that, at least, not by an objective standard.

Ohhhh...so it just comes down to a difference of definitions of the words...lol!!! Well, I think its sensational for him to state, and reiterate, that Shin Bet thought he was a genius (and he was serious cuz he said so) and so they did whatever he wanted and worked for him. Define it how you want...its pretty over-the-top. But hey, it sells books.

So this is all based on what you think??? You don't really have genuine evidence of over the top statements. It's over the top because you spin it as such. In the context of everything he said, it doesn't really come off that way. You are trying to trump it up, but it just isnt' too convincing.

QUOTE (shiloh357 @ Jul 4 2010, 08:17 AM)

Once again, you really have not presented a credible accusation. All the exclamation marks and LOLs will not change the fact that you simply haven't met the standard you erected for your position. It really makes your posts look like an hysterical rant, than intelligent argumentation.

Don't care if you don't like my writing style...it hasn't changed...and it wont. People don't like that i use "..." instead of commas either...lol!!!!

No, it's not your writing style per se; it's the spirit of your posts. It's the "everyone who doesn't see it like me is an idiot" attitude that comes through and the way you laugh off other people's words like they are stupidest things you have ever read. That is what comes through.

QUOTE (shiloh357 @ Jul 4 2010, 08:17 AM)

Actually I researched quite a bit. I was looking for the exact statements you attributed to him and they were not coming up on any of the five search engines I used. I knew the stuff you posted already, but since they did not come off as "outlandish" to me, I assumed you had something else I had not read.

Actually, I find it hard to believe that you researched. If you had, then I don't think you would like him as much...and you'd quit saying that I dislike him.

So since I did not arrive at the conclusions YOU did, I didn't research??? There's that know-it-all attitude again. If we don't see it your way, we didn't research or we are not logical or whatever.

He is pretty critical of Israel...and if you researched like you claim you'd know that he accuses Israel of being occupiers, and killing innocent children.

I am sure, given his background, he has some hang ups about Israel. All of us are a work in progress. He has never claimed that he had complete change of heart about Israel. So that is not surprising. The Lord is working on him. In time, he may see that some of his criticisms of Israel are not entirely accurate.

You are generally more of the Robert Spencer and Pamela Gellar crowd...if you had researched AT ALL you'd have found that even Gellar and Spencer are "distancing" themselves from what they call Mosab's anti-semitic rhetoric.

I would distance myself from that as well. If he holds anti-Semitic residue from his past, that is not surprising. The Lord will change that.

[Axxman]

So this is all based on what you think??? You don't really have genuine evidence of over the top statements. It's over the top because you spin it as such. In the context of everything he said, it doesn't really come off that way. You are trying to trump it up, but it just isnt' too convincing.

LOL...so I'm the over-the-top one..and he's completely okay in seriously claiming things like Shin Bet saw him as a genius and dropped their agenda's in order to work for him. Okie-dokie....

I'm not trumping anything up...those are his own words. If its trumped up its because of him, not me.

No, it's not your writing style per se; it's the spirit of your posts. It's the "everyone who doesn't see it like me is an idiot" attitude that comes through and the way you laugh off other people's words like they are stupidest things you have ever read. That is what comes through.

Oh brother. Now you can read my mind?!?! I don't think you're stoopid...generally...but you are the one that came blustering into a topic that you know absolutely nothing about. I would never use the word stoopid or idiot to describe you. On topics that you have studied you are brilliant. I'll give you all the credit in the world when you are right. For example, you've basically single-handedly educated me about the flaws of replacement theology. I appreciate you for that. Don't presume to know me so well.

You'll just have to trust me on this...its my style of writing nothing more. We both know that if I want to say something arrogant or inappropriate to someone I'm generally stoopid enough to shove my foot down my throat and do it.

So since I did not arrive at the conclusions YOU did, I didn't research??? There's that know-it-all attitude again. If we don't see it your way, we didn't research or we are not logical or whatever.

No, it was more the fact that you simply didn't know the material. You had no idea that "G" was dismissed from the Shin Bet. You had no idea that Yousef had said some of the things I posted (context or not, he said those things). And you had no idea that some people were criticizing him for anti-semitic and pro-hamas statements. I'm certain you haven't even read the book because those sentiments jump off the page in spots. You didn't seem to have any clue about the gov'ts position on the routine hearing and their all but apologizing for it coming to that.

Its not about being a know-it-all...its about having a discussion with someone who doesn't know any of the details and they are consistently arguing that you are wrong about details they didn't even know existed. You didn't reach any conclusions in this discussion based on prior research...in fact, the only conclusion you reached at all was after I led you to the info in the first place. Any other conclusions you reached were about me, and what I was thinking and why I alledgedly didn't like the guy at all.

I am sure, given his background, he has some hang ups about Israel. All of us are a work in progress. He has never claimed that he had complete change of heart about Israel. So that is not surprising. The Lord is working on him. In time, he may see that some of his criticisms of Israel are not entirely accurate.

I would distance myself from that as well. If he holds anti-Semitic residue from his past, that is not surprising. The Lord will change that.

Who knew you could be so gracious to a guy who says terrorists are victims. I mean, of course, we should pray that he comes to understand that children don't grow up to be terrorists simply because they grow up under Israeli oppression and violence...I just can't imagine what kind of hell you would unleash on a person if they said that in a thread on these forums...lol. But I suppose spending a few days defending the guy before you realize he had these sentiments, softens the heart. You're Welcome...because I am certain that without my research into the man, you wouldn't have known that you would like to distance yourself from him.

thanks btw...now you've got me all self-conscious about my "lols" and "!!!"

[Axxman]

I'll bet people hate us...lol. We get in these discussions and we just run with it. We should have a talk show...NO CALLERS! LOL!!!

[Guest]

I'll bet people hate us...lol. We get in these discussions and we just run with it. We should have a talk show...NO CALLERS! LOL!!!

Just Wait Until The Movie Comes Out

[Guest shiloh357]

QUOTE (shiloh357 @ Jul 4 2010, 12:16 PM)

So this is all based on what you think??? You don't really have genuine evidence of over the top statements. It's over the top because you spin it as such. In the context of everything he said, it doesn't really come off that way. You are trying to trump it up, but it just isnt' too convincing.

LOL...so I'm the over-the-top one..and he's completely okay in seriously claiming things like Shin Bet saw him as a genius and dropped their agenda's in order to work for him. Okie-dokie....

No I did not say you were the "over the top one." I said that you have failed to really prove that he said anything that qualifies as "outlandish" and "crazy." When examined in their natural context, they are not so outlandish because I can read what he meant. Furthermore, you misquoted him in one place and frankly, you have a bad habit of overstating and exaggerating what others say in order to have something to knock down. It's called a "straw man." Kind of like you just did to me above and do to me quite often.

I'm not trumping anything up...those are his own words. If its trumped up its because of him, not me.

You said his statemsnets were outlandish and "crazy." I was expecting more than what I found. In fact, you not only trumped it up, you misquoted him to boot. Yeah, the problem is YOU.

QUOTE (shiloh357 @ Jul 4 2010, 12:16 PM)

No, it's not your writing style per se; it's the spirit of your posts. It's the "everyone who doesn't see it like me is an idiot" attitude that comes through and the way you laugh off other people's words like they are stupidest things you have ever read. That is what comes through.

Oh brother. Now you can read my mind?!?!

No, but I can feel the arrogant spirit that comes through your post. You are entirely full of yourself and it comes through in how you debate.

I used to work in automotive remanufacturing with guys like you. They think they are experts on every subject, they are loud, arrogant, and any one who has temerity to see it differently is an idiot. You remind me alot of them. There was no disagreement with them that didn't end with them trying make everyone else look like they were dolts. Kind of like you do when you insuate that if we don't see it your way we are illogical and gullible.

but you are the one that came blustering into a topic that you know absolutely nothing about.

I didn't come blustering in this topic at all.

QUOTE (shiloh357 @ Jul 4 2010, 12:16 PM)

So since I did not arrive at the conclusions YOU did, I didn't research??? There's that know-it-all attitude again. If we don't see it your way, we didn't research or we are not logical or whatever.

No, it was more the fact that you simply didn't know the material. You had no idea that "G" was dismissed from the Shin Bet.

No, I didn't. So what?? It was not a story I was following everyday and so naturally there are facts that would escape my notice. But to act like I had done no research on it, is presumptuous and patently false.

Furthermore, your "research" if you want to call it that, was poor and inaccurate. You can't even correctly quote Yousef and you rip things from context, misrepresent, overstate, exaggerate what he said in order to give the "crazy" spin that you chose assign to his words. That is not "research" in anybody's book. From the moment you have been this thread, you have been seeking to discredit both "G" and Yousef. You have been challenging Yousef's integrity and to date, you have not one shred of credible "research" to show your suspicions are warranted.

Like I said, you are long on rant, but short on substance.

Who knew you could be so gracious to a guy who says terrorists are victims.

I have not read where he calls terrorists "victims."

I just can't imagine what kind of hell you would unleash on a person if they said that in a thread on these forums...lol. But I suppose spending a few days defending the guy before you realize he had these sentiments, softens the heart.

I would criticize him as much as I do anyone. The problem is that I am not so quick to criticize him on the grounds of what you accuse him of saying because I have seen how readily you misquote and misrepresent what others say.

Oh and for the record, I oppose the mistreatment and violation of the human rights of terrorists in Israeli prisons. In those situations, they are victims. It is well-known that some Israelis mistreat prisoners in Israeli prisons. While it is not the policy of the Israeli government to treat prisoners in an inhumane fashion, some Israeli guards decide to mistreat and commit atrocities against the prisoners in their keep. Unfortunately, Israel has not done enough to stop those things from happening.

Yousef's precondition for helping the Shin Bet was that no prisoner would be tortured by them. Shin Bet agreed to that precondition.

But I suppose spending a few days defending the guy before you realize he had these sentiments, softens the heart.

Actually, if Yousef were spewing the same kind anti-Semitic trash I have seen on this board, I would have no reservations about telling him the truth and I am more than willing to cut anyone off at the knees Christian or not, if they want to get unfairly critical of Israel. In this case, I am willing, because he is telling the truth about Islam, and is calling allah the "gangster of the world," to give him the benefit of the doubt... for now.

because I am certain that without my research into the man, you wouldn't have known that you would like to distance yourself from him.

I never said anything about distancing myself from him. I said I would distance myself from any anti-Semitic residue that still exists in his mind. And your "research" has not done anything but demonstrate that you don't know what you are talking about, when it comes to Yousef's motives or integrity. You have an over-inflated opinion about the value of your contributions to this thread. All I have seen from you is a lot of blow and lot of bragging on yourself.

[MorningGlory]

I'll bet people hate us...lol. We get in these discussions and we just run with it. We should have a talk show...NO CALLERS! LOL!!!

Just Wait Until The Movie Comes Out

[Axxman]

No I did not say you were the "over the top one." I said that you have failed to really prove that he said anything that qualifies as "outlandish" and "crazy." When examined in their natural context, they are not so outlandish because I can read what he meant. Furthermore, you misquoted him in one place and frankly, you have a bad habit of overstating and exaggerating what others say in order to have something to knock down. It's called a "straw man." Kind of like you just did to me above and do to me quite often.

You said his statemsnets were outlandish and "crazy." I was expecting more than what I found. In fact, you not only trumped it up, you misquoted him to boot. Yeah, the problem is YOU.

So you've read one interview (thanks to me), read or heard some snippets, and skipped the book...and now your the authority on what he says, and in what context? I don't think so. You have it wrong! I've seen and heard quite a few radio and tv interviews and I read the book. These things that you keep saying I am taking out of context are things that he repeats over and over and over again.

Now, we may disagree on the definitions of over-the-top or sensational...that could be a key. I happen to think that claiming that the Shin Bet worked for him and his agendas is over-the-top. I happen to think that his claims that he could go home and live in his hometown in Palestine is sensational. I happen to think that his comments about Israel being occupiers is outlandish. If you don't think they are sensational or outlandish then there isn't alot to be done about that...I can't change your mind...but you can't change the fact that HE HAS made those statements.

No, but I can feel the arrogant spirit that comes through your post. You are entirely full of yourself and it comes through in how you debate.

I used to work in automotive remanufacturing with guys like you. They think they are experts on every subject, they are loud, arrogant, and any one who has temerity to see it differently is an idiot. You remind me alot of them. There was no disagreement with them that didn't end with them trying make everyone else look like they were dolts. Kind of like you do when you insuate that if we don't see it your way we are illogical and gullible.

lol...boy do you have me pegged wrong. I am hardly an expert on every subject which is why I spend MORE time reading comments on Worthy than I do commenting. I don't comment on 90% of the subjects on Worthy...because I am clueless on 90% of the topics on Worthy. I am consistently amazed at the knowledge that people have on various subjects...it really is a wonderful and varied group that is collected here. And believe it or not...you are one of them. I agree with you and learn from you more than you know. There are many times that I have avoided commenting in topics that I am familiar with because you or somebody else is already all over it and I'm afraid to sound stoopid in comparison...lol.

With that said...there are some topics that I am pretty good with and I pretty much keep myself in that little corner. You don't know me...I wish you did because I'm pretty sure you wouldn't dislike me so much...but you don't so quit thinking that you can judge my spirit because you don't like my typing style.

No, I didn't. So what?? It was not a story I was following everyday and so naturally there are facts that would escape my notice. But to act like I had done no research on it, is presumptuous and patently false.

Furthermore, your "research" if you want to call it that, was poor and inaccurate. You can't even correctly quote Yousef and you rip things from context, misrepresent, overstate, exaggerate what he said in order to give the "crazy" spin that you chose assign to his words. That is not "research" in anybody's book. From the moment you have been this thread, you have been seeking to discredit both "G" and Yousef. You have been challenging Yousef's integrity and to date, you have not one shred of credible "research" to show your suspicions are warranted.

Thats weird. I don't think I discredited either of them. If anything I discredited a newssource that got it wrong. You are back to square one trying to insist that I don't like the guy. I've said repeatedly that I don't dislike him, or judge him...but he says some things that bother me. **edit to add** ---> Maybe in a way I am discrediting him in your view. You seem to have kinda had him on a pedestal (not literally) and I'm telling you things about him that make him look worse than you thought. From that perspective I can see your point. Its not really an effort on my part to discredit him...more of just telling people why everything he says doesn't quite gel for me.

Now your having to admit that you did not have a grasp of the materials, you weren't following the story, and your defending a guy who is shady at best in his defense of Israel. So instead, you have to go after me...the one who was following the story and had a grasp of the topic...as a know-it-all, arrogant bully. The fact is, you are still claiming that he didn't say these things by accusing me of misrepresenting or spinning things that he has repeatedly said.

Actually, if Yousef were spewing the same kind anti-Semitic trash I have seen on this board, I would have no reservations about telling him the truth and I am more than willing to cut anyone off at the knees Christian or not, if they want to get unfairly critical of Israel. In this case, I am willing, because he is telling the truth about Islam, and is calling allah the "gangster of the world," to give him the benefit of the doubt... for now.

Wow bro...you really need to research this guy then...lol. Yes, he does tell the truth about radical islam from his experience. He is equally harsh in his comments of Israel...which bothers some people. Well...maybe not equally harsh...but pretty bad. He consistently blames the Israeli occupation and violence by Israel for the rise in terrorism. We both know that I am sympathetic to the Muslim community, I don't apologize for that. Yousef trumps me in that catagory BIGTIME! You'll never hear me blame Israel for the rise in Islamic extremism. I heard him on the radio 2 days ago...the interviewer asked him TWICE to explain how rough it was growing up in Hamas. Yousef immediately began talking about the Israeli occupation and how rough it is growing up seeing Israel destroying villages...the interviewer cut him off!! The interviewer then re-asked the question about Hamas and childhood...and again he began talking about Israel and how Palestinian children have it rough because of the occupation and settlements...they let him talk for a minute before going to commercial.

So yes, we can give him credit where it is due...but he repeatedly says things that give me pause. You call it residue...I call it a reason to be cautious.

I think it's important to note that Mosab has made a number of anti-Israeli remarks, lies and blood libels against the Jewish people." -- Pamela Gellar

"Israel can be a problem, yes, I admit that, and I agree, I am against occupation. But they blame everything on occupation, Muslims look at themselves and say,

Edited July 5, 2010 by Axxman

[Guest shiloh357]

QUOTE (shiloh357 @ Jul 5 2010, 06:02 AM)

No I did not say you were the "over the top one." I said that you have failed to really prove that he said anything that qualifies as "outlandish" and "crazy." When examined in their natural context, they are not so outlandish because I can read what he meant. Furthermore, you misquoted him in one place and frankly, you have a bad habit of overstating and exaggerating what others say in order to have something to knock down. It's called a "straw man." Kind of like you just did to me above and do to me quite often.

You said his statemsnets were outlandish and "crazy." I was expecting more than what I found. In fact, you not only trumped it up, you misquoted him to boot. Yeah, the problem is YOU.

So you've read one interview (thanks to me), read or heard some snippets, and skipped the book...and now your the authority on what he says, and in what context?

Thanks to you???? You have contributed very little to what I already knew. I have read other interviews in other places. Why do you assume that my reading is so sparce? CNN and that wretched Amanpour woman are not the only people who interviewed him.

I never said I was an authority on what he says. I am saying that the context of the interview, which you hold up as evidence of "crazy," "sensationalist," and "outlandish" remarks made by Yousef does not really support your description of those remarks. I have a more objective definition of what qualifies as "crazy," "sensationalist," and "outlandish."

Now, we may disagree on the definitions of over-the-top or sensational...that could be a key.

If he had claimed to receive assistance from extra-terrestrials in locating terrorists, THAT would be "crazy," "sensationalist," and "outlandish" according to my concept of those terms. If he had claimed that Jesus appeared at his table one morning during breakfast and told him to join Shin Bet, THAT would be what I call, "crazy," "sensationalist," and "outlandish." The stuff you present is pretty much nothing.

If you don't think they are sensational or outlandish then there isn't alot to be done about that...I can't change your mind...but you can't change the fact that HE HAS made those statements.

He made them, but YOU assigned values to them that did not come out in the interview, nor in any other write up about him. You misrepresented his remarks to mean things he did not intend, and that is far worse than simply having a different definition of sensationalism.

Now your having to admit that you did not have a grasp of the materials, you weren't following the story, and your defending a guy who is shady at best in his defense of Israel.

I did not say I did not have a grasp on the materials. I would appreciate it if you would cease overstating and exaggerating my remarks. It is why I find you hard to talk to. I can't have a discussion with you without you misrepresenting my remarks.

What I actually is that I did not follow the story #1 on my list of things to do. If alerted to it, I read about it but then I was not on a smear campaign to make him look like deceptive person as you have been doing. I am defending a guy you have intentionally trashed and drug through the mud who doesn't deserve the crap you have been spewing. Even if I don't agree with him over Israel, he does not deserve to have people like you misrepresenting what he says, just so you can try to score points on a messageboard.

So instead, you have to go after me...the one who was following the story and had a grasp of the topic...as a know-it-all, arrogant bully.

You don't have a grasp on it all. All I have gotten from you is misquotes and a lot of smoke. Frankly, your assessment of him is dismally inaccurate.

lol...boy do you have me pegged wrong.

I am talking about the spirit that is present in your responses. It creates the same irritating feeling I used to get from the guys at the factory.

Thats weird. I don't think I discredited either of them.

Oh, please... all you have been doing is depicting Yousef as a deceptive opportunistic guy with a book to sell. You have spent no small amount of time accusing him of making crazy, outlandish, unfactual statements.

You seem to have kinda had him on a pedestal (not literally) and I'm telling you things about him that make him look worse than you thought.

In what way have I put him on a pedestal??? I simply didn't see in him the garbage you have been claiming. That hardly counts as putting him on a pedestal.

He is equally harsh in his comments of Israel...which bothers some people. Well...maybe not equally harsh...but pretty bad.

As long as his comments are accurate, he can be as harsh as he wants about Israel. Israeli Jews are the Israeli government's harshest critics.

He consistently blames the Israeli occupation and violence by Israel for the rise in terrorism.

That does not surprise me. Most Palestinians have long been denied the true history of why terrorism exists and it has nothing to do with Israel's presence in the West Bank.

[Guest shiloh357]

"Israel can be a problem, yes, I admit that, and I agree, I am against occupation. But they blame everything on occupation, Muslims look at themselves and say,

[Guest]

I think you should agree that people who make these types of comments should regard closer scrutiny...and thats been my only point on him from the get-go.

Yeah... right

Hope

And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity. 1 Corinthians 13:13