OneLight Posted February 25, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.22 Reputation: 9,763 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted February 25, 2012 Hi Viole, In Sweden, do you have drive-by shootings, firearm assaults, robbery with a deadly weapon? Here is a link comparing Sweden to the US in crimes. Notice that you have 175% higher rapes then we do in the US. We have 161 times more murders then you. Per 100,000 people, you have 38,005 drug crimes where we have 560.1. We have 9 times more crimes then you, while you have 17% more crime victims than us. I wonder what our world would look like if sex, drugs and guns were eliminated from everyday entertainment, like music, movies, TV and books? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~candice~ Posted February 25, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 955 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 11,318 Content Per Day: 1.89 Reputation: 448 Days Won: 33 Joined: 12/16/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted February 25, 2012 Just goes to show that having firearms doesn't necessarily reduce the amount of crime time to dispense that myth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Patriot21 Posted February 25, 2012 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 27 Topic Count: 338 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 15,715 Content Per Day: 2.45 Reputation: 8,535 Days Won: 39 Joined: 10/25/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/27/1985 Share Posted February 25, 2012 I personally, dont see that as a myth candice, studies have been shown that even professional burgers are more afraid of a gun then home security alarms or dogs. With that being said, I agree with onelight-if a lot of the sex, drugs, guns and violence were removed from the entertainment industry, I would imagine wed see a large decrease in crime across the board-regardless of gun laws and who has them and who doesnt, in fact I would imagine it would do more good then any gun laws. Though, that goes back to a perfect world-if everyone in the world was a sincere christian this debate wouldnt be happening, no one would care if their neighbor had a gun or not because they know their neighbor wouldnt shoot anyone with it. We live in a imperfect world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~candice~ Posted February 25, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 955 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 11,318 Content Per Day: 1.89 Reputation: 448 Days Won: 33 Joined: 12/16/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted February 25, 2012 I personally, dont see that as a myth candice, studies have been shown that even professional burgers are more afraid of a gun then home security alarms or dogs. With that being said, I agree with onelight-if a lot of the sex, drugs, guns and violence were removed from the entertainment industry, I would imagine wed see a large decrease in crime across the board-regardless of gun laws and who has them and who doesnt, in fact I would imagine it would do more good then any gun laws. Though, that goes back to a perfect world-if everyone in the world was a sincere christian this debate wouldnt be happening, no one would care if their neighbor had a gun or not because they know their neighbor wouldnt shoot anyone with it. We live in a imperfect world. How do you explain the difference in crime rates between the USA and Sweden? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 How do you explain the difference in crime rates between the USA and Sweden? Really Andy, you are a statistician and you do not know that there may be other factor involved than gun ownership? How can you look at yourself in the mirror after that one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Patriot21 Posted February 25, 2012 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 27 Topic Count: 338 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 15,715 Content Per Day: 2.45 Reputation: 8,535 Days Won: 39 Joined: 10/25/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/27/1985 Share Posted February 25, 2012 viole, I get annoyed when people take that "turn the other cheek" out of context. That is in reference to religious persecution. There is a difference between someone taking a gun to your head and saying renounce christ or I will kill you, and a mugger on the street trying to rape your daughter, that isnt religious persecution thats just wrong, and I believe that the Bible actually calls us to protect life, especially others lives. psalm 82:4 says to rescue the weak and the needy, deliver them out of the hand of the wicked. You see throughout the Bible examples of what happens when people dont have the ability to protect themselves-1 samuel 13:19-22 is case in point, in Nehemiah 4 the jews were instructed to defend themselves, Luke 22:36 which says: " Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it,and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment. Self defense is biblical, throughout it. And yes, that person that your shooting at may be an atheist, but what if that atheist is shooting at another atheist, then they may never know heaven either. Lets look at abraham-in Genesis 14 his nephew Lot, was kidnapped, Abraham led a war party to rescue him, not out of revenge, but to save the life of his nephew. He protected his family and God blessed him for it. The Israelite Army was an militia type army-everyone kept their own weapons, and when called to war they brought them. We are called to preserve life-and unfortunatly, there are those who seek to destroy life, and I feel we have a moral right to defend ourselves and others from these people. And candice Im going to point out a couple things here-crime is prevelent, in the entire world, regardless of location, or gun laws, and will continue to do so until the end of time. Also note, that in america, while guns are legal and prevalent, the media has such a negative sway on them that often times, even in a clear cut self defense case where the person defending themselves had every right and would have died otherwise if they hadnt, they get faced with lawsuits and even possible jail time, that fewer people are carrying guns anymore in the US, at least the good people that would use them for good. One good example lets compare state by state-lets look at colorado, lot of gun violence down there, school shootings and the like, and very few people who carry guns. Lets go north to wyoming and montana-very low gun crime rate, and everyone and their dog owns one, and a lot of people carry them. With that being said, Im sure we can go back and forth all night with statistics about gun laws and amount of guns etc and in some cases, the crime rate is higher in area with loose gun laws, and some worse, but all that proves is that the problem does not lie with the guns, it lays with the people carrying them, and as onelight pointed out, our entertainment industry is a powerful factor in that. The other point is, is that if all guns were outlawed it will not solve the problem-the people who would use guns to kill others, well guess what, murder is already against the law, do you really think theyre going to care that guns are to? theyll get their hands on them one way or another, and if not they will kill anyway, all taking guns away does is take them out of the hands of the good people who wouldn't hurt a fly except out of self defense. They are a tool-they can be used for good, and for evil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~candice~ Posted February 25, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 955 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 11,318 Content Per Day: 1.89 Reputation: 448 Days Won: 33 Joined: 12/16/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted February 25, 2012 How do you explain the difference in crime rates between the USA and Sweden? Really Andy, you are a statistician and you do not know that there may be other factor involved than gun ownership? How can you look at yourself in the mirror after that one? I know there is more than one factor involved I was asking pat to recognise that but you spoiled it . Just as there is more than one factor involved here... there is more than one factor involved when crime appears higher in areas without guns. That ship sails BOTH ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Patriot21 Posted February 25, 2012 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 27 Topic Count: 338 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 15,715 Content Per Day: 2.45 Reputation: 8,535 Days Won: 39 Joined: 10/25/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/27/1985 Share Posted February 25, 2012 my view is, that I believe I not only have the right to protect my family, but the moral obligation to, both spirtually, mentally, and physically, regardless of the crime rate around me, and that if the good Lord blesses me with tools to help with that job, like guns, then I will use them. And the good Lord has blessed me, both with a family and the means to protect them, in more ways then one. For example, I try to protect them spiritually, we pray, study the bible, go to church and I try to be a good christian head of household. I try to filter what my kid sees on tv or hears on the radio, and I intend to be involved in her and my wives lives, to be there for them through their struggles and their needs. I also protect them phyisically-I found a nice safe place to live in a good neighborhood with good neighbors, I dont take them places where they would be at high risk, like the seedier parts of town at night or rowdy bars, etc. Most of the things I do to protect my family from physical harm are preventative like that. With that being said sometimes bad things happen to good people, and they happen to the safest of people. So yes, I carry a gun when Im out and about, yes I have a gun within arms reach of my bed at night (locked up and protected from young hands, yet easily accessible by me) Do I ever want to use it to shoot someone? no absolutly not, and I pray I am never in such a situation. However, I would rather have it and never need it, then need it and not have it. be prepared is my motto here. Now, lets add this into the factor, guns are also a good hobby. lets look at cars, lots of people love cars as hobbys, they clean them up restore them, race them, automobiles are a huge factor in the america economy and Im sure others as well, they are a means of transportation, and they are also a hobby, people pore lots of money into them. No one says a person is a bad person because they bought and restored that old 73 GTO, or built a stock car racer, because that is their hobby. Now, lets look at guns theyre just as much of a hobby-people buy them, some people restore old guns, and collect them, some use them for competition shooting, and even hunting which is one hobby I also partake in. None of these hobbies hurt anyone in and of themselves. Yes, gun accidents occur yes people get hurt from them. yes, people die from them. However, people get hurt and die in automobile accidents to. In fact, if we want to look at statistics, more people die from automobile accidents every year in the US then gun accidents and gun crimes combined. Yet, theres no sudden cryout to ban cars. you can step off your front porch wrong and fall and kill yourself. Cars are only as safe as their drivers and the drivers of those around them, guns are the same way, their just as safe as their owners and those around them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Patriot21 Posted February 25, 2012 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 27 Topic Count: 338 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 15,715 Content Per Day: 2.45 Reputation: 8,535 Days Won: 39 Joined: 10/25/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/27/1985 Share Posted February 25, 2012 and viole, they are valid, Jesus did away with the old covenant, not the old testament. The old covenant dealt with how you entered heaven, under it you had to follow the law or your out, and if you didnt you had to offer sacrifices to get to heaven. The new covenant, Jesus IS the sacrifice. If doing away with the old covenant meant ignoring the entire OT like you suggested, then there would be no purpose in having it in scripture. Romans 7:7 What shall we say, then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! Indeed I would not have known what sin was except through the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, "Do not covet." 2 Timothy 3:16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness Doing away with the old covenant was doing away with the old method of getting into heaven. Add onto that Jesus never said He came to destroy the law, but to fulfill it. and you skipped luke 22:36 where in the NT we are instructed to sell our purse and purchase a sword (they didnt have guns back then) and youve forgotten that even Peter carried a sword, and no I dont buy that Jesus allowed peter to carry it to set Him up for a fail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~candice~ Posted February 25, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 955 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 11,318 Content Per Day: 1.89 Reputation: 448 Days Won: 33 Joined: 12/16/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted February 25, 2012 Right pat... so this topic is rightfully about all weapons, not really guns. I have plenty of ways to defend myself and don't necessarily need a gun to do that, though I don't oppose others who use a gun to do so, nor do I oppose gun sports. Really it is just a tool and the deciding factor is how it is used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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