On no, not another threadon Acts 2:38!

[e lansing]

Jude 1:21 Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.

1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments: and His commandments are not grievous.

1 John 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments.

1 John 2:4 He that saith, I know Him, and keepth not His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

1 John 2:5 But whoso keepth His word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby we know that we are in Him.

1 John 2:6 He that saith that he abideth in Him ought himself also so to walk, even as He walked.

Salvation is a gift! However, this does not mean we have no responsibility or accountablility. Is not what I do with the gift just as important as receiving the gift?

e

It is very important, but it is not what gets us the gift.

We do it out of love, not obligation, not for some sort of fire insurance, not to earn the right to keep the gift.

Do you have kids? Do you give them a Christmas gift and then say

[HitmanR2]

We both agree that it is a gift, right! Right. The point I am making is that what you do with the gift is just as important as getting the gift

.

Yes. I do the works BECAUSE I am saved.

FAITH + WORKS = SALVATION {is incorrect}

SALVATION + FAITH = WORKS {this formula is correct, salvation and faith equate to works. A faith that will not motivate to works is not faith, but rather a belief.}

[Guest]

.... what you do with the gift is just as important as getting the gift. How would you feel if you spent lots of cash to get someone a gift and they take it with a smile and say thank you....

you are not trying to earn the initial gift, but you are sure trying to earn the right to keep the gift, which sort of makes it not a gift at all;

The Gift

What shall I render unto the LORD for all his benefits toward me? Psalms 116:12

And The Response

I will take the cup of salvation, and call upon the name of the LORD. Psalms 116:13

Jesus Saves

Doth he thank that servant because he did the things that were commanded him? I trow not.

So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do. Luke 17:9-10

Glory!

But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world. Galatians 6:14

>>>>>()<<<<<

This is another example of arguing from a humanistic stand point to prove a spiritual standpoint, it does not hold up.

e

you mean like you did in the paragraph above?

why is it ok for you, but you bust my chops at every turn for doing so?

OK

Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord; Ephesians 5:19

arguing Agreeing from With The Words Of God

For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, saith the LORD, thoughts of peace, and not of evil, to give you an expected end.

Then shall ye call upon me, and ye shall go and pray unto me, and I will hearken unto you.

And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart. Jeremiah 29:11-13

And Looking To His Words Of Grace

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3;16

Salvation Is His Business

Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. Hebrews 12:2

Sharing The Truth

I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely. Revelation 22:16-17

Only The

For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: Revelation 22:18

Truth

And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. Revelation 22:19

Is Our Joy

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. John 14:6

>>>>>()<<<<<

Be Blessed Beloved Of The KING

Bless the LORD, O my soul: and all that is within me, bless his holy name. Psalms 103:1

Love, Your Brother Joe

[e lansing]

We both agree that it is a gift, right! Right. The point I am making is that what you do with the gift is just as important as getting the gift

.

Yes. I do the works BECAUSE I am saved.

FAITH + WORKS = SALVATION {is incorrect}

SALVATION + FAITH = WORKS {this formula is correct, salvation and faith equate to works. A faith that will not motivate to works is not faith, but rather a belief.}

this I agree with 100%

[e lansing]

Has anybody here said that one is trying to earn there salvation? No! We both agree that it is a gift, right! Right. The point I am making is that what you do with the gift is just as important as getting the gift. How would you feel if you spent lots of cash to get someone a gift and they take it with a smile and say thank you but a week later you stop by to visit and see your gift in the trash, or still unwraped, or in the rummage sale or just came up to you and said thanks but no thanks and gives back your gift?

you are not trying to earn the initial gift, but you are sure trying to earn the right to keep the gift, which sort of makes it not a gift at all.

This is another example of arguing from a humanistic stand point to prove a spiritual standpoint, it does not hold up.

e

you mean like you did in the paragraph above?

why is it ok for you, but you bust my chops at every trun for doing so?

The example I gave was to show you that agruing from a humanistic standpoint just does not hold up. You, because of your bend to osas-Es drivel, want to always make the point about father and son relationship is never disolved and try to apply that to the spiritual relationship between God and Christians. I simply was taking your type of argument and used it in another context to show you that it proves nothing.

You shoud not assume anything because it is border line judging. I have never said that I am earning the right to keep salvation, why do you assume this? I do good things because I am saved, remember?

e

[UncleAbee]

We both agree that it is a gift, right! Right. The point I am making is that what you do with the gift is just as important as getting the gift

.

Yes. I do the works BECAUSE I am saved.

FAITH + WORKS = SALVATION {is incorrect}

SALVATION + FAITH = WORKS {this formula is correct, salvation and faith equate to works. A faith that will not motivate to works is not faith, but rather a belief.}

I'm going to reply to this with James 2:22 - "You see that faith was working with his works, and as a result of the works, faith was perfected;"

In this scripture the formula is faith added with works = the perfection of faith. The perfection of faith = salvation. Your equation adds faith & salvation. James's equation adds faith and works. We need faith to do the works. The works that faith produces are judged by God. What is hard for most to understand is that you work because you are saved and you work to be saved. Both are true. You are saved when you become a Christian; you are being saved as you work by faith in Christ; you are eternally saved in the end by the grace of God.

[ted]

We both agree that it is a gift, right! Right. The point I am making is that what you do with the gift is just as important as getting the gift

.

Yes. I do the works BECAUSE I am saved.

FAITH + WORKS = SALVATION {is incorrect}

SALVATION + FAITH = WORKS {this formula is correct, salvation and faith equate to works. A faith that will not motivate to works is not faith, but rather a belief.}

I'm going to reply to this with James 2:22 - "You see that faith was working with his works, and as a result of the works, faith was perfected;"

In this scripture the formula is faith added with works = the perfection of faith. The perfection of faith = salvation. Your equation adds faith & salvation. James's equation adds faith and works. We need faith to do the works. The works that faith produces are judged by God. What is hard for most to understand is that you work because you are saved and you work to be saved. Both are true. You are saved when you become a Christian; you are being saved as you work by faith in Christ; you are eternally saved in the end by the grace of God.

Interesting.

What if you unintentionally miss something along the way?

How can your works be a result of your salvation if you are working toward your salvation at the same time? I contend that both cannot be true, therefore one of them is false.

Which one would you think?

Thanks

t.

[UncleAbee]

No salvation is not earned. Rather we "receive" through faith what Christ has provided. Christ's work was to go the cross. He had the heavy lifting. Our work is to submit to Christ and "receive" the salvation he brought. God's love is unconditional. Salvation has always been conditioned based on our response. Our work is to obey Christ. We have the light lifting but still we have something to do.

You are contradicting yourself here.

If we have to do the "light lifting" we are still doing something to earn our salvation.

I agree there should be a response to salvation, that a change and even works should follow it. Not as a requirement, but in response to it. We do what we do not out of a earning our salvation, but out of Love for our savior!

The bible is very clear that salvation is a gift, of that there really can be no disagreement.

either something is earned or it is a gift, there really is no middle ground.

Romans 4:4 Now when a man works, his wages are not credited to him as a gift, but as an obligation.

Salvation has always had conditions tied to it. We have to do something to receive what Christ brought. The gift of salvation being free means that it is freely available. It doesn't mean there aren't some conditions that need to be met to get this free gift. The world commonly thinks that if I have to do anything to get the free gift then it is not free. One day this guy's car had run out of gas up the street from where I live. Me and some neighbors were outside talking. He came through and asked if anyone had some gas in a can he could put in his car. I went under my house and got my gas can and gave him all I had in it. He filled his container up, went back up the hill, put it in his car, and drove off. Was the gas I gave him free to him? Sure it was. But; 1) He had to ask for it; 2) He had to fill up his can with it; 3) He had to walk back up the hill; 4) He had to put the gas in his car. Did any of that work he had to do make the gas any less free? Of course not. I made the gas available. I paid for it. He just received and used what I gave him. That is the same thing you are doing with the free gift of Christ. What you do to receive it makes it no less free. Really, God gave you salvation and the plan to receive the salvation. It all came from God so you aren't earning anything nor did you think of anything. You are just doing as told.

I read your example of the x-mas gift. Even our children we give gifts have to do something to get a gift. Don't they have to be good children. Would you buy your son a gift if he defied you constantly day in and day out. No. They have to meet conditions to get x-mas gifts. Do those conditions make the gifts you give any less free? Your children are always your children no matter what they do. This doesn't mean that they can't defy you to the point that you put them out the house. Even when you put them out the house they are still your children and can be redeemed. This is what Jesus is talking about in John 10:28-29. Once you become a child of God you are forever one. Nothing can make you not a child of God. No one can take away what God has given you. No one can take your Christian status away. If you fall into sin you are still a Christian and can be redeemed. You are never not a CHristian no matter what state you fall into. No one can take the HG away but you can choose not to exercise what has been given you. If you choose not to exercise it then you are still a Christian. You are just going to end up in hell because you did not continue in the faith. Christians can end up in hell too.

Edited July 27, 2010 by UncleAbee

[Guest shiloh357]

Salvation has always had conditions tied to it. We have to do something to receive what Christ brought. The gift of salvation being free means that it is freely available. It doesn't mean there aren't some conditions that need to be met to get this free gift.

Yes, there are conditions, but conditions and works are not the same thing. I have to receive the gift, obviously. That is one of those conditions. However, the point is that there is no merit that one must attain in order to be saved. I cannot work my way to God. There are no works I can perform that will help me to attain salvation.

The world commonly thinks that if I have to do anything to get the free gift then it is not free.

Not really. If someone offers me $1 Million as a gift, I have to receive it. I have to take it to the bank and deposit it. I did something to receive the gift of $1 Million, but I did not earn it or work for it.

One day this guy's car had run out of gas up the street from where I live. Me and some neighbors were outside talking. He came through and asked if anyone had some gas in a can he could put in his car. I went under my house and got my gas can and gave him all I had in it. He filled his container up, went back up the hill, put it in his car, and drove off. Was the gas I gave him free to him? Sure it was. But; 1) He had to ask for it; 2) He had to fill up his can with it; 3) He had to walk back up the hill; 4) He had to put the gas in his car. Did any of that work he had to do make the gas any less free? Of course not. I made the gas available. I paid for it. He just received and used what I gave him. That is the same thing you are doing with the free gift of Christ. What you do to receive it makes it no less free. Really, God gave you salvation and the plan to receive the salvation. It all came from God so you aren't earning anything nor did you think of anything. You are just doing as told.

But that analogy falls short where baptism is concerned. You are adding to salvation in that particular case. Making baptism necessary for salvation would mean that the blood of Jesus is insufficient, and more work is necessary.

This is what Jesus is talking about in John 10:28-29. Once you become a child of God you are forever one. Nothing can make you not a child of God. No one can take away what God has given you. No one can take your Christian status away. If you fall into sin you are still a Christian and can be redeemed. You are never not a CHristian no matter what state you fall into. No one can take the HG away but you can choose not to exercise what has been given you. If you choose not to exercise it then you are still a Christian. You are just going to end up in hell because you did not continue in the faith. Christians can end up in hell too.

This is completely wrong.

John 10: 28-29 says that those who are Christ's shall never perish. Hell is the place for those who have perished into eternal separation and spiritual death. No one who has the Holy Spirit, who is born again, can enter into hell. I don't know where you get that nonsense, but you are off the mark in more ways than I can count. God will discipline his children, but that does not include sending them to hell, and I defy you to prove otherwise.

[HitmanR2]

I'm going to reply to this with James 2:22 - "You see that faith was working with his works, and as a result of the works, faith was perfected;"

In this scripture the formula is faith added with works = the perfection of faith. The perfection of faith = salvation. Your equation adds faith & salvation. James's equation adds faith and works. We need faith to do the works. The works that faith produces are judged by God. What is hard for most to understand is that you work because you are saved and you work to be saved. Both are true. You are saved when you become a Christian; you are being saved as you work by faith in Christ; you are eternally saved in the end by the grace of God.

And I shall reply with this: For what does the Scripture say? who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began, 2 Timothy 1:9 NKJV

You see works are removed from the formula. Salvation is BY grace, THROUGH faith. ANY works done prior to salvation are in vain. Works are a result of a person that has experienced salvation exercising their faith, that is how their faith is made perfect.