Guest shiloh357 Posted March 29, 2005 Share Posted March 29, 2005 We don't need to learn about Islam. They need to know about Jesus. We will never become like them, but they have chance to become like us. Muslims have nothing to offer Christians, but we have the Words of Eternal LIfe to offer them. All of this is, of course, true. Myself, having belonged to a cult that I was deceived into believing was the one and only true religion, know and understand how the deceived mind works. Thank God, that when I went to visit a evangelical church with my neighbor, I wasn't told that they had the truth and I was wrong. The members accepted me, listened to my garbage, told me what they believed and I was drawn to the Truth by their unconditional love towards me as a lost sinner. I was tolerated and it caused me to dig deeper to prove them wrong, which ultimately proved myself wrong. I'd still be in the cult. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Tolerating a person and tolerating a belief system are two different things. What would have been the outcome if I had gone there and been told that "This is the only truth, you are wrong, you don't have anything to offer, we are right and you are wrong, end of story and if you don't accept that, then just leave"? There is a difference here. You were not going from church to church on a one woman mission to make every church SDA. Their response to you would have been different had you gone in to their church with a campaign to make SDA converts. You would most likely would have been confronted just like jamboy was confronted when he made it clear that his purpose was to lead us to Islam, and started praying to Allah on our boards, to that end. You cannot demonstrate that jamboy was mistreated or dealt with unfairly. My point is that they do not have the right to come here and use this a soundboard or platform for their beliefs. I did not say we should tell them "We are right, you are wrong and if you don't like it, leave." What I am saying is that we do not need to entertain Islamic beliefs. Everything they say should answered with Scripture, not coddled and "tolerated." They have nothing to offer us, and we should sit here and pretend that they have a valid belief system. They don't. Islam is a lie, and the light of Scripture exposes it as such. Darkness is always offended at the light. That does mean that light is offensive, but those who live in darkness prefer it, rather than the light. As long as they do not violate the TOS, they are certainly free to stay, but they stay on our terms. This is a Christian board and they should expect to come face to face with truth of Scripture, and face to face with the gospel. We don't need to discuss Islam and look for things we have in common, and give the impression that we are in any way validating any part of their belief system. We need to constantly hold up Christ, and keep the light focused on them. They don't have anything to offer us, and we have nothing in common. They are lost. They need to become like us. We have what they need, they have nothing that we need. "Tolertating" a wicked belief system like Islam will not endear them to us. It will only reinforce their notion that we are weak and gullable. Islam is not here to be "tolerated." It is here to dominate, and to control. This is not a case of genuine seeker coming to our boards to learn and ask questions, and being shunned or mistreated. That is not what happened at all. This was someone who posed a certifiable threat, and had no interest in learning about our faith, but made up his mind that we needed to convert to Islam, and he was intent upon showing Islam to be the truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orr v'emet Posted March 29, 2005 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 26 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,672 Content Per Day: 0.23 Reputation: 11 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/12/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted March 29, 2005 David The last poster insinuates that Christians are too tolerant. Maybe so, but it would be better than being too intolerant. Tolerance says that I will not harm you even if I disagree with you. Exactly what is wrong with that principle? Tolerance as described in Webster's dictionary is "The capacity for or the practice of recognizing and respecting the beliefs or practices of others." It says nothing about harming someone if their beliefs differ. I don't have to "tolerate", by definition, the blasphemy that is Islam. I love christians and non-christians alike because Christ commands me to. Loving someone and tolerating their actions/words etc are two different things. Doesn't the bible say love the sinner hate the sin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christianbear144 Posted March 29, 2005 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 20 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/23/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted March 29, 2005 Tolerance for another person's viewpoint is a cardinal virtue. It is showing respect for others, simply because they are fellow human beings. None of us can be so sure of our own ideas that we cannot concede that the other person may be right, at least in part. I want to learn about other views for two reasons: 1) I am better able to understand my own beliefs by comparing them with alternative beliefs, and 2) I may someday change my beliefs to something quite different. Oliver Cromwell once remarked to an opponent: I beseech you, in the bowels of Christ, to think it possible that you may be mistaken. Any person can be wrong about something, even Biblical interpretation. We know what happens when tolerance is abandoned by society. Nazi Germany and Stalinist Russia are good examples. When people believe that they have the knowledge and power of God, they act like beasts to their fellow man. If tolerance of Muslims is bad, then what should become of the several million Muslims who are citizens or resident aliens in the U.S.? Are they to be driven out of our country? Many of them are here as refugees from their homelands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
traveller Posted March 29, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 827 Topics Per Day: 0.10 Content Count: 12,101 Content Per Day: 1.50 Reputation: 249 Days Won: 3 Joined: 04/01/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted March 29, 2005 None of us can be so sure of our own ideas that we cannot concede that the other person may be right, at least in part. I want to learn about other views for two reasons: 1) I am better able to understand my own beliefs by comparing them with alternative beliefs, and 2) I may someday change my beliefs to something quite different. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Do you think you might be wrong about believing that Jesus Christ is Lord? You may someday change your beliefs? Bear, do you have a personal relationship with Jesus? I mean a true one. It is said 2Cr 5:17 Therefore if any man [be] in Christ, [he is] a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. If one is new, how can he be made old again? Bear, I don't just think that Christ is Lord, I KNOW it. I cannot know this by my own wisdom, but by His revelation within me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orr v'emet Posted March 29, 2005 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 26 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,672 Content Per Day: 0.23 Reputation: 11 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/12/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted March 29, 2005 Tolerance for another person's viewpoint is a cardinal virtue. It is showing respect for others, simply because they are fellow human beings. None of us can be so sure of our own ideas that we cannot concede that the other person may be right, at least in part. I want to learn about other views for two reasons: 1) I am better able to understand my own beliefs by comparing them with alternative beliefs, and 2) I may someday change my beliefs to something quite different. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Tell me where in the bible it says that I should be tolerant of someone who speaks vile words against Jesus Christ and then you may have a leg to stand on. Respect isn't something that's automatically given just because someone exists. Respect must be earned. I am sure the Jesus Christ is the King of kings and Lord of lords. I am sure that he came to this earth, fully human and fully God. He lived a perfect life, died on the cross for my sin so I could spend eternity in heaven and he was resurrected. I am sure that He is second to no man and worthy of all praise, glory and honor. That my friend will never change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christianbear144 Posted March 29, 2005 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 20 Content Per Day: 0.00 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/23/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted March 29, 2005 No one on this thread has spoken "vile words" about Jesus Christ. And even if they had, what could you do about it, except repudiate their remarks? This forum is obviously a Christian forum, but non-Christians should be welcomed as honored guests. We should not be fearful of anything which they might bring to the discussion. Our faith should be strong enough to encounter a little opposition, so long as it is couched in amiable debate. We should even be willing to grant that our opponents may be correct about certain things. If Islam should not be tolerated here, then what becomes of the several million Muslims who live here? Are we not the land of the free anymore? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orr v'emet Posted March 29, 2005 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 26 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,672 Content Per Day: 0.23 Reputation: 11 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/12/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted March 29, 2005 No one on this thread has spoken "vile words" about Jesus Christ. And even if they had, what could you do about it, except repudiate their remarks? This forum is obviously a Christian forum, but non-Christians should be welcomed as honored guests. We should not be fearful of anything which they might bring to the discussion. Our faith should be strong enough to encounter a little opposition, so long as it is couched in amiable debate. We should even be willing to grant that our opponents may be correct about certain things. If Islam should not be tolerated here, then what becomes of the several million Muslims who live here? Are we not the land of the free anymore? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Vile words: And no, we not invent lies about Jesus, saying that he was God or the sone of god. And no, we do not pray in the name of Jesus (pbuh) or call him our saviour, since the only one that could save us if God Almighty. To end with, I would like to beseech Allah- The Lord of the Universe, from the depth of my heart to guide you Christians to the true path. In the name of Allah, the Most Merciful, The most Beneficient Firstly, I love Jesus (pbuh) so much to a certain extent, that I would not do anything which would upset him, such as blaspheming or worshipping anyone besides God. If you christians love Jesus (pbuh) also, you should do likewise. Can anyone one of you's provide me with a verse from the bible without fabricating it, that Jesus himself says "I am God, worship me" directly without any implications? My faith is quite strong and am I not fearful to allow debates but only when they don't degrade the Savior and speak lie after lie about Him. You can bet your bottom dollar I am going to stand for the word of God and not water down the truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted March 29, 2005 Share Posted March 29, 2005 None of us can be so sure of our own ideas that we cannot concede that the other person may be right, at least in part. I want to learn about other views for two reasons: 1) I am better able to understand my own beliefs by comparing them with alternative beliefs, and 2) I may someday change my beliefs to something quite different. Sure I can. Jesus Christ is God who came to the Earth, born of a virgin and lived among men. He lived a sinsless, spotless life, was crucified as a sacrifice for the sins of the whole world, and was buried in a borrowed tomb and was resurrected by His own power, ascended in to Heaven and is now at the right hand of the Father. He is our High Priest who is making intercession for us before the Father. That is the chief difference (though not the only one) that we have with Islam. There is no way I am going to concede one inch, and there is no way I am going to tolerate without refutation any claim made to the contrary. Unfortunately, Christianbear, your version of tolerance includes a warm fuzzy, acceptance with open arms of those who seek to undermine our faith, and call our beliefs in Christ, found in Scripture a "lie." If you want to learn about Muslim views and get their perspective, then go to a Muslim board. As Christians we are not sit idly by while unbelievers mock and denigrate our Lord. This forum is obviously a Christian forum, but non-Christians should be welcomed as honored guests. We should not be fearful of anything which they might bring to the discussion. Our faith should be strong enough to encounter a little opposition, so long as it is couched in amiable debate. This is where your gullabilty is showing, Christianbear. Islam is not interested in "amicable debate." They are not interested in just bantering ideas about. They, like Jamal, are here to make us Muslims. That was his stated purpose. He was not here to hear our side, but to draw and intice potential converts to Islam. You are blind Christianbear. The Word of God, according to Jesus is like a mustard seed. Ever grow mustard plants? The root system kills everything around it. You can't grow mustard around flowers or vegitable. The acid it puts in the ground makes the ground inhospitable to every other form of vegitation. Likewise the Bible is like the mustard plant. There is no compromise. It is incompatable with every other belief system. It has nothing in common with the Koran, the Sanskirt, the Vedas, etc. The Word of God is not "tolerant." It contends that there is NO other way but Jesus Christ for salvation. The Bible and its clams are offensive to every other belief system in the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wordsower Posted March 29, 2005 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 42 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,545 Content Per Day: 0.19 Reputation: 30 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/18/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/27/1968 Author Share Posted March 29, 2005 OK, then..........................Whew! Hey, but the original post was pretty cool, hu??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir W Dakotah Posted April 2, 2005 Group: Junior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 87 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/07/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted April 2, 2005 Hi wordsower, Wouldn't we consider a prophecy of this type to be a (false prophecy)??? Praise the Lord!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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