Nearness of the Rapture

[Jedi4Yahweh]

The saints...

will go through the tribulation

"... confirming the souls of the disciples, calling on them to continue in the faith and that through much tribulation we must enter into the kingdom of God." (Act 14:22).

But are saved from God's wrath:

"Much more then, being now justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him." (Rom 5:9)

Read the Bible - it explains it all very clearly (instead of reading the websites of people who don't read the Bible properly).

3. Although the Bible consistently makes a clear distinction between the tribulation of the saints at the hand of the political authorities and unbelievers of this world (on one hand) and (on the other hand) the wrath of God being poured out upon a sinful, unbelieving world, the uneducated pre-trib rapture view falsely and consistently equates what the Bible only calls "wrath" with "the tribualtion".

In short, rather read the Bible and not the websites of people who can't or won't read the Bible properly. But it's just no use imploring people to stop teaching their brothers and sisters that we will have no danger and no suffering and no tribulation.

I agree. They are confusing Tribulation with God's Wrath. Gods Wrath is poured out as the end of the tribulation. Yes we are saved from Gods Wrath but not from tribulation, persecution and martyrdom that comes from the World during the end times This is not to say that God will not give us the ability to endure and overcome tribulation and hardship.

A good book to read is called The Pre-Wrath Rapture of the Church by Marvin Rosenthal.

[Bible2]

wyguy said:

The mistake you continually make is there will be Christians on the earth during the Tribulation, yes - but they will be those that missed the Rapture and become converted during the Tribulation.

Note that no scripture refers to a pre-trib rapture, or says that the Christians in the tribulation got converted during the tribulation.

wyguy said:

(Many through the preaching of the Two Witnessess, and the 144,000 sealed Jewish evangelists). They will be the ones who will be beheaded rather than take the Mark of the Beast.

Note that no scripture refers to people getting converted by the two witnesses, for they could be two witnesses against the wicked (cf. Deuteronomy 17:6, Deuteronomy 19:15). They will be prophets of judgment who will torment the wicked with plagues (Revelation 11:3-10).

Also, note that no scripture refers to the 144,000 as Jewish evangelists, or to anyone getting converted by the 144,000.

Regarding the 144,000, they are Christians (Revelation 14:4), and so they are members of the church (Ephesians 4:4-5). They are the firstfruits of the church (Revelation 14:4) in the sense of their being the best part (cf. Numbers 18:12) of the church. They will be alive on the earth during only the first half of the coming tribulation (Revelation 7:4, Revelation 9:4). They are male virgins (Revelation 14:4) who will be caught up into heaven mid-tribulation as the "man child" (Revelation 12:5-6, Revelation 14:5).

The 144,000 part of the church (Revelation 14:4) being from the twelve tribes of Israel (Revelation 7:4) doesn't require that it consists only of Jewish Christians, who remain members of the tribe of Israel into which they were born (Romans 11:1, Acts 4:36). Instead, the 144,000 part of the church can include both Jewish Christians and Gentile Christians, for Gentile Christians have been grafted into Israel (Romans 11:17,24, Ephesians 2:12,19, Galatians 3:29), and so have been grafted into its various tribes (cf. Ezekiel 47:21-23). So the entire church is the twelve tribes of Israel (Revelation 21:9,12). This is necessary because the entire church is saved only by the New Covenant (Matthew 26:28, 1 Corinthians 11:25, 2 Corinthians 3:6, Hebrews 9:15), and the New Covenant is made only with Israel (Jeremiah 31:31-34).

Note that the tribe of Dan is missing from the list of the twelve tribes of the 144,000 (Revelation 7:5-8). This is because the Israel the 144,000 are from isn't genetic Israel, with its twelve genetic tribes (Genesis 49:28) which include Dan (Genesis 49:17). Instead, the Israel the 144,000 Christians (Revelation 14:4) are from is spiritual Israel, which is different than genetic Israel (Romans 9:3-8), and which consists of all the elect (Romans 9:11-13), both Jews and Gentiles (Romans 9:24).

The 144,000 male-virgin Christians (Revelation 14:4) could all be alive on the earth today, and they will all be alive when the tribulation starts, and so they will enter into the tribulation (Revelation 7:4, Revelation 9:4), just as all the rest of the church alive on the earth when the tribulation starts will enter into the tribulation (cf. Revelation 7:9,14). For there will be no pre-tribulation rapture.

Jesus won't return and gather together (rapture) the church until immediately after the coming tribulation (Matthew 24:29-31) of Revelation chapters 6-18. Jesus can't return and gather together the church until sometime after there's a falling away (an apostasy) in the church and the Antichrist sits in a rebuilt Jewish temple in Jerusalem and declares himself God (2 Thessalonians 2:1-4, Matthew 24:9-31, Daniel 11:31,36, Revelation 11:1-2). For when Jesus returns to gather together (and marry) the church he will destroy the Antichrist (2 Thessalonians 2:1,8, Revelation 19:7,20). Before Jesus returns, the church will have to go through the world-reign of the Antichrist (Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4, Matthew 24:9-31).

When Jesus returns, he will descend bodily from heaven on a white horse (1 Thessalonians 4:16, Revelation 19:11-21, Zechariah 14:3-4, Acts 1:11-12) with all the holy angels (Matthew 25:31, 2 Thessalonians 1:7) for all the world to see (Matthew 24:30, Revelation 1:7, Matthew 24:27). Then those in the church will be resurrected or changed in the twinkling of an eye into immortal bodies (1 Thessalonians 4:16, 1 Corinthians 15:21-23,51-53). Then the church will be caught up together/gathered together (raptured) (Matthew 24:31, 2 Thessalonians 2:1) into the sky to have a meeting in the air with Jesus (1 Thessalonians 4:17). At that meeting, Jesus will judge the church (Psalms 50:4-5, cf. Mark 13:27, 2 Corinthians 5:10, Luke 12:45-48) and then marry the church (Revelation 19:7) in the clouds, before the church mounts white horses and descends back down from sky (the first heaven) with Jesus (Revelation 19:14) as he wages war against, and completely defeats, all the armies of the unsaved world, which will all have gathered against him (Revelation 19:19-21, Revelation 16:14-16). Then the resurrected and changed church, including those in the church who were beheaded by the Antichrist (the beast), will reign on the earth with the returned Jesus for the full 1,000 years of the millennium (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29).

wyguy said:

And again, the Rapture question is not a salvation issue.

The rapture question isn't a salvation issue in itself, but holding too strongly to a pre-trib stance could leave one less prepared mentally to go through the coming tribulation. For an analogy, imagine that some kids were at a summer camp and their counselor told them: "Tomorrow there's going to be a long, hard hike". The kids walked away and started talking among themselves. One of them said: "Well, he didn't say that we have to go on that hike, right?" But a second kid answered: "I'm pretty sure he meant that that hike was for all of us. He didn't say that there's going to be a long, hard hike for some of us and a day of goofing off for others of us". But the first kid answered back: "Nah, we don't have to go on that hike. I'm going to go fishing tomorrow". But the second kid answered: "Don't be so sure. I'm going to bed early, so I'll be all fresh and ready for the hike".

The next day, at the morning camp meeting, the first kid brought his fishing pole and was all set for a long day of relaxing fishing. But the second kid brought his sturdy hiking boots and a big canteen of water and was all mentally prepared for a long day of hard hiking. The counselor then told the kids: "Okay, in a few minutes we're all going to start on the hike I told you about, so make sure you've got everything you need". The first kid felt sick to his stomach when he heard that. He dropped his fishing pole and sat down on the ground and started crying like a baby. He just couldn't imagine starting a long, hard hike after he'd been all set for relaxing. But he was forced to go on the hike anyway, and this made him so mad at the counselor that he grumbled against the counselor to the other kids all during the hike, cursing out the counselor as a cruel taskmaster (cf. Isaiah 8:21-22, Matthew 24:9-13, Matthew 13:21).

But the second kid took the whole hike in stride (cf. Revelation 13:10, Revelation 14:12), and stuck up for the counselor during the whole time, even though the second kid suffered awfully from blisters during the hike. The counselor, even though he was at the head of the hiking line, could overhear much of what the kids said behind him. After the hike was over, he made sure to reward the second kid by giving him as a gift the counselor's own fishing pole, and by making sure that the second kid was assigned day after day to only the most enviable camp duties, like getting to build and light the nightly campfires, and getting to make the evening camp announcements over the camp PA system. But the counselor made sure to assign the first kid to the worst kitchen and latrine-cleaning duties day after day after day.

---

Or, for a scriptural analogy, Christians are to look to Job as an example of patient endurance through suffering (James 5:11). During the coming tribulation, Christians will need to endure all of its suffering with patience and faith (Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13) unto the end (Matthew 24:9-13), for God will allow Satan to bring great suffering to Christians during the coming tribulation (Revelation 12:17, cf. Revelation 2:10), just as God allowed Satan to bring such great suffering to righteous Job (Job chapters 1-2).

By the power of Satan working against him (Job 1:12), Job first suffered the loss of his wealth and his servants from murderous robbers (Job 1:14,15,17) and a natural disaster (Job 1:16), and suffered the death of all his children in a natural disaster (Job 1:18-19). Then, again by the power of Satan working against him (Job 2:6), Job suffered the loss of his health (Job 2:7). But Job remained patient throughout all his loss and suffering, never cursing God because of it (Job 2:9-10, Job 1:20-22), but wholly trusting in God throughout it all (Job 13:15). Because of this, God greatly rewarded Job after his suffering was completed, giving him twice as much wealth as he had before (Job 42:10,12, Job 1:3), and giving him the same number of children as he had before (Job 42:13, Job 1:2), and giving him a very long life (Job 42:16), so that he lived to see his grandchildren, great grandchildren, and great great grandchildren (Job 42:16).

While he was still suffering, Job mistakenly thought that his suffering was God's wrath against him (Job 19:11), when in fact God had no wrath against Job, because Job was righteous in God's eyes (Job 1:1,8, Job 2:3). Instead, Job was suffering from the hand of Satan (Job 1:12, Job 2:7). Similarly, during the coming tribulation, the suffering of Christians will not be God's wrath against them, but Satan's wrath against them (Revelation 12:17, cf. Revelation 2:10).

God allowed Satan to bring loss and suffering to Job to prove that Job did not love God just because God had made him wealthy and secure (Job 1:9-12) and healthy (Job 2:4-6), but that Job would continue to love and trust God even if all of his wealth, family, and health were stripped away from him. Indeed, Job would have continued to love God even if God himself had killed him (Job 13:15). This is the kind of love for God that Christians will need to have during the coming tribulation: they will need to continue to love God even when God allows Satan (the dragon) and the Antichrist (the beast) to make war against them and physically overcome them (Revelation 12:17, Revelation 13:7-10), stripping away all of their wealth and family and leading them to the guillotine to cut off their heads (Revelation 20:4).

Christians must so love God and so trust God that they have no fear of suffering or death (Revelation 2:10, Hebrews 2:15), knowing that even the death of their bodies will only bring their still-conscious souls into the presence of Jesus Christ himself in heaven (2 Corinthians 5:8, Philippians 1:21,23, Revelation 6:9-10, Luke 23:43). Christians must in no way love their mortal lives on this earth to where they will deny Jesus Christ and the Bible in order to keep from getting killed for being a Biblical Christian (Mark 8:35-38, John 12:25, Revelation 12:11), just as Christians must not love their families to the point where they will deny Jesus Christ and the Bible in order to keep their children or parents from starving or getting killed (Matthew 10:37, Luke 14:26). And Christians must not love their wealth to the point where they will deny Jesus Christ and the Bible in order to keep their wealth from being taken away (Matthew 6:24, 1 Timothy 6:9-10). Jesus Christ requires that Christians forsake everything, even their own lives, for his sake (Luke 14:33, Luke 9:23, Matthew 10:38-39), just as he forsook everything, even his own life, for their sake (Philippians 2:6-8, 2 Corinthians 5:15, 1 Corinthians 15:3).

[Bold Believer]

wyguy said:

The mistake you continually make is there will be Christians on the earth during the Tribulation, yes - but they will be those that missed the Rapture and become converted during the Tribulation.

Note that no scripture refers to a pre-trib rapture, or says that the Christians in the tribulation got converted during the tribulation.

wyguy said:

(Many through the preaching of the Two Witnessess, and the 144,000 sealed Jewish evangelists). They will be the ones who will be beheaded rather than take the Mark of the Beast.

Note that no scripture refers to people getting converted by the two witnesses, for they could be two witnesses against the wicked (cf. Deuteronomy 17:6, Deuteronomy 19:15). They will be prophets of judgment who will torment the wicked with plagues (Revelation 11:3-10).

Also, note that no scripture refers to the 144,000 as Jewish evangelists, or to anyone getting converted by the 144,000.

Regarding the 144,000, they are Christians (Revelation 14:4), and so they are members of the church (Ephesians 4:4-5). They are the firstfruits of the church (Revelation 14:4) in the sense of their being the best part (cf. Numbers 18:12) of the church. They will be alive on the earth during only the first half of the coming tribulation (Revelation 7:4, Revelation 9:4). They are male virgins (Revelation 14:4) who will be caught up into heaven mid-tribulation as the "man child" (Revelation 12:5-6, Revelation 14:5).

The 144,000 part of the church (Revelation 14:4) being from the twelve tribes of Israel (Revelation 7:4) doesn't require that it consists only of Jewish Christians, who remain members of the tribe of Israel into which they were born (Romans 11:1, Acts 4:36). Instead, the 144,000 part of the church can include both Jewish Christians and Gentile Christians, for Gentile Christians have been grafted into Israel (Romans 11:17,24, Ephesians 2:12,19, Galatians 3:29), and so have been grafted into its various tribes (cf. Ezekiel 47:21-23). So the entire church is the twelve tribes of Israel (Revelation 21:9,12). This is necessary because the entire church is saved only by the New Covenant (Matthew 26:28, 1 Corinthians 11:25, 2 Corinthians 3:6, Hebrews 9:15), and the New Covenant is made only with Israel (Jeremiah 31:31-34).

Note that the tribe of Dan is missing from the list of the twelve tribes of the 144,000 (Revelation 7:5-8). This is because the Israel the 144,000 are from isn't genetic Israel, with its twelve genetic tribes (Genesis 49:28) which include Dan (Genesis 49:17). Instead, the Israel the 144,000 Christians (Revelation 14:4) are from is spiritual Israel, which is different than genetic Israel (Romans 9:3-8), and which consists of all the elect (Romans 9:11-13), both Jews and Gentiles (Romans 9:24).

The 144,000 male-virgin Christians (Revelation 14:4) could all be alive on the earth today, and they will all be alive when the tribulation starts, and so they will enter into the tribulation (Revelation 7:4, Revelation 9:4), just as all the rest of the church alive on the earth when the tribulation starts will enter into the tribulation (cf. Revelation 7:9,14). For there will be no pre-tribulation rapture.

Jesus won't return and gather together (rapture) the church until immediately after the coming tribulation (Matthew 24:29-31) of Revelation chapters 6-18. Jesus can't return and gather together the church until sometime after there's a falling away (an apostasy) in the church and the Antichrist sits in a rebuilt Jewish temple in Jerusalem and declares himself God (2 Thessalonians 2:1-4, Matthew 24:9-31, Daniel 11:31,36, Revelation 11:1-2). For when Jesus returns to gather together (and marry) the church he will destroy the Antichrist (2 Thessalonians 2:1,8, Revelation 19:7,20). Before Jesus returns, the church will have to go through the world-reign of the Antichrist (Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4, Matthew 24:9-31).

When Jesus returns, he will descend bodily from heaven on a white horse (1 Thessalonians 4:16, Revelation 19:11-21, Zechariah 14:3-4, Acts 1:11-12) with all the holy angels (Matthew 25:31, 2 Thessalonians 1:7) for all the world to see (Matthew 24:30, Revelation 1:7, Matthew 24:27). Then those in the church will be resurrected or changed in the twinkling of an eye into immortal bodies (1 Thessalonians 4:16, 1 Corinthians 15:21-23,51-53). Then the church will be caught up together/gathered together (raptured) (Matthew 24:31, 2 Thessalonians 2:1) into the sky to have a meeting in the air with Jesus (1 Thessalonians 4:17). At that meeting, Jesus will judge the church (Psalms 50:4-5, cf. Mark 13:27, 2 Corinthians 5:10, Luke 12:45-48) and then marry the church (Revelation 19:7) in the clouds, before the church mounts white horses and descends back down from sky (the first heaven) with Jesus (Revelation 19:14) as he wages war against, and completely defeats, all the armies of the unsaved world, which will all have gathered against him (Revelation 19:19-21, Revelation 16:14-16). Then the resurrected and changed church, including those in the church who were beheaded by the Antichrist (the beast), will reign on the earth with the returned Jesus for the full 1,000 years of the millennium (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29).

wyguy said:

And again, the Rapture question is not a salvation issue.

The rapture question isn't a salvation issue in itself, but holding too strongly to a pre-trib stance could leave one less prepared mentally to go through the coming tribulation. For an analogy, imagine that some kids were at a summer camp and their counselor told them: "Tomorrow there's going to be a long, hard hike". The kids walked away and started talking among themselves. One of them said: "Well, he didn't say that we have to go on that hike, right?" But a second kid answered: "I'm pretty sure he meant that that hike was for all of us. He didn't say that there's going to be a long, hard hike for some of us and a day of goofing off for others of us". But the first kid answered back: "Nah, we don't have to go on that hike. I'm going to go fishing tomorrow". But the second kid answered: "Don't be so sure. I'm going to bed early, so I'll be all fresh and ready for the hike".

The next day, at the morning camp meeting, the first kid brought his fishing pole and was all set for a long day of relaxing fishing. But the second kid brought his sturdy hiking boots and a big canteen of water and was all mentally prepared for a long day of hard hiking. The counselor then told the kids: "Okay, in a few minutes we're all going to start on the hike I told you about, so make sure you've got everything you need". The first kid felt sick to his stomach when he heard that. He dropped his fishing pole and sat down on the ground and started crying like a baby. He just couldn't imagine starting a long, hard hike after he'd been all set for relaxing. But he was forced to go on the hike anyway, and this made him so mad at the counselor that he grumbled against the counselor to the other kids all during the hike, cursing out the counselor as a cruel taskmaster (cf. Isaiah 8:21-22, Matthew 24:9-13, Matthew 13:21).

But the second kid took the whole hike in stride (cf. Revelation 13:10, Revelation 14:12), and stuck up for the counselor during the whole time, even though the second kid suffered awfully from blisters during the hike. The counselor, even though he was at the head of the hiking line, could overhear much of what the kids said behind him. After the hike was over, he made sure to reward the second kid by giving him as a gift the counselor's own fishing pole, and by making sure that the second kid was assigned day after day to only the most enviable camp duties, like getting to build and light the nightly campfires, and getting to make the evening camp announcements over the camp PA system. But the counselor made sure to assign the first kid to the worst kitchen and latrine-cleaning duties day after day after day.

---

Or, for a scriptural analogy, Christians are to look to Job as an example of patient endurance through suffering (James 5:11). During the coming tribulation, Christians will need to endure all of its suffering with patience and faith (Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13) unto the end (Matthew 24:9-13), for God will allow Satan to bring great suffering to Christians during the coming tribulation (Revelation 12:17, cf. Revelation 2:10), just as God allowed Satan to bring such great suffering to righteous Job (Job chapters 1-2).

By the power of Satan working against him (Job 1:12), Job first suffered the loss of his wealth and his servants from murderous robbers (Job 1:14,15,17) and a natural disaster (Job 1:16), and suffered the death of all his children in a natural disaster (Job 1:18-19). Then, again by the power of Satan working against him (Job 2:6), Job suffered the loss of his health (Job 2:7). But Job remained patient throughout all his loss and suffering, never cursing God because of it (Job 2:9-10, Job 1:20-22), but wholly trusting in God throughout it all (Job 13:15). Because of this, God greatly rewarded Job after his suffering was completed, giving him twice as much wealth as he had before (Job 42:10,12, Job 1:3), and giving him the same number of children as he had before (Job 42:13, Job 1:2), and giving him a very long life (Job 42:16), so that he lived to see his grandchildren, great grandchildren, and great great grandchildren (Job 42:16).

While he was still suffering, Job mistakenly thought that his suffering was God's wrath against him (Job 19:11), when in fact God had no wrath against Job, because Job was righteous in God's eyes (Job 1:1,8, Job 2:3). Instead, Job was suffering from the hand of Satan (Job 1:12, Job 2:7). Similarly, during the coming tribulation, the suffering of Christians will not be God's wrath against them, but Satan's wrath against them (Revelation 12:17, cf. Revelation 2:10).

God allowed Satan to bring loss and suffering to Job to prove that Job did not love God just because God had made him wealthy and secure (Job 1:9-12) and healthy (Job 2:4-6), but that Job would continue to love and trust God even if all of his wealth, family, and health were stripped away from him. Indeed, Job would have continued to love God even if God himself had killed him (Job 13:15). This is the kind of love for God that Christians will need to have during the coming tribulation: they will need to continue to love God even when God allows Satan (the dragon) and the Antichrist (the beast) to make war against them and physically overcome them (Revelation 12:17, Revelation 13:7-10), stripping away all of their wealth and family and leading them to the guillotine to cut off their heads (Revelation 20:4).

Christians must so love God and so trust God that they have no fear of suffering or death (Revelation 2:10, Hebrews 2:15), knowing that even the death of their bodies will only bring their still-conscious souls into the presence of Jesus Christ himself in heaven (2 Corinthians 5:8, Philippians 1:21,23, Revelation 6:9-10, Luke 23:43). Christians must in no way love their mortal lives on this earth to where they will deny Jesus Christ and the Bible in order to keep from getting killed for being a Biblical Christian (Mark 8:35-38, John 12:25, Revelation 12:11), just as Christians must not love their families to the point where they will deny Jesus Christ and the Bible in order to keep their children or parents from starving or getting killed (Matthew 10:37, Luke 14:26). And Christians must not love their wealth to the point where they will deny Jesus Christ and the Bible in order to keep their wealth from being taken away (Matthew 6:24, 1 Timothy 6:9-10). Jesus Christ requires that Christians forsake everything, even their own lives, for his sake (Luke 14:33, Luke 9:23, Matthew 10:38-39), just as he forsook everything, even his own life, for their sake (Philippians 2:6-8, 2 Corinthians 5:15, 1 Corinthians 15:3).

Since we don't KNOW when the Last Day is, we could say that the Rapture (and the Second Coming since they occur on the same day) is close.

[notmyown22]

My wife opened up the Bible on Saturday morning. God guided her hand to Nehemiah 8:16-9:3. It speaks of the Feast of Tabernacles and the reading of the law. I think God is communicating the very nearness of the Rapture. Even if not this directly, he may be speaking of Ezekiel 37, the re-uniting of the house of Judah and the house of Israel, which precedes Ezekiel 38 & 39. Let us read the words of the Lord and do them; let us also confess our sins before the Lord. It may be he will be gracious and forgive our sins.

I personally dont believe in the rapture since it cannot be found in the Bible. I do believe, however that the "rapture" theory will be used by the government to explain the mass abduction of those who oppose the one world government. An excellent resource s "God's Wrath on Left Behind" by Lisa Ruby. A wonderful book! I also recommend Matt 24.

This passage of Nehemiah is very beautiful though! Especially with the Feast of Tabernacles coming up! Thanks for sharing!

[wyguy]

The rapture question isn't a salvation issue in itself, but holding too strongly to a pre-trib stance could leave one less prepared mentally to go through the coming tribulation.

Sure, if you are relying on your own strength. God is the source of our "mental" stability. He is the source of all strength. Again, as I believe the Pre-Trib Rapture to be true, it's not an issue. If it proves not to be - it's still not an issue because God is the one who holds me up - He provides for my every need. If I suffer, it's because He has willed it. If I die, it's because He, as the author and sustainer of life, has chosen to take it.

I'm not worried about any aspect of the Tribulation. Worry cannot add one day to my life - nor to yours.

[martus]

I think God is communicating the very nearness of the Rapture.

The nearness of His coming, yes. But not the rapture.

Interesting comment Sis. Care to expound? You did a great job before!

the question should be are you ready when Christ comes not when he comes

[iams daughter]

The coming of our lord will be witnessed by all. He will not come in secret. His coming is a ways off. We may go to him before the world sees his coming. Paul said two things must happen first; the mass apostasy and the appearance of the lawless one. During his reign the dross will be eliminated from the silver.

the apostacy is happening now and i believe we will be caught up before the lawless one appears

[iams daughter]

I think God is communicating the very nearness of the Rapture.

The nearness of His coming, yes. But not the rapture.

Interesting comment Sis. Care to expound? You did a great job before!

the question should be are you ready when Christ comes not when he comes

indeed the question should be are you ready. in the book of revelation it speaks of the bride she has made herself ready. unless we are ready for jesus return we will be left behind

[Rick-Parker]

I changed my mind. It ain't worth it.

Edited August 20, 2010 by Parker1

[Bold Believer]

I think God is communicating the very nearness of the Rapture.

The nearness of His coming, yes. But not the rapture.

Interesting comment Sis. Care to expound? You did a great job before!

the question should be are you ready when Christ comes not when he comes

indeed the question should be are you ready. in the book of revelation it speaks of the bride she has made herself ready. unless we are ready for jesus return we will be left behind

Here are some questions for all you 'left behinders' and pre-millennialists:

1. If the rapture is the first resurrection (regardless of whether it occurs pre, mid or post tribulationally) and the first resurrection is for Believers, changing their bodies to glorified and raising them if they're dead, what happens to those poor folks who (in your theology) go through the tribulation and miss the first resurrection, since the fate of those in the second resurrection is clearly Gehenna! From Rev 20:5 to Rev 20:15, there is only one resurrection in which ANYBODY gets saved and that's the first. The others to go Gehenna. Are they forced to go through all eternity trapped in these rags?

2. If the rapture splits the second coming into two parts as pre and mid tribulationism suggests, is the destruction of Gog and Magog at the end of the 'literal millennium' the THIRD coming?

3. How do the people left behind get saved, since God takes the Holy Spirit when He raptures the Church? Is there some other way to get saved that we haven't heard of? Doesn't Scripture state that there is no other name under heaven by which we must be saved?

These are vital questions which I believe must be answered to clear up the confusion that any theory other than a Last Day Second Coming, Rapture and Resurrection brings.