What is the Church?

[angels4u]

The Glorious Future of the Church

by Arno Froese

Under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, Isaiah proclaimed this glorious message almost 700 years before Jesus was born. His message was one of salvation, righteousness, the Bridegroom and Bride. No further study is required for us to recognize that this prophecy reveals the New Covenant. Salvation has come to man; it is an act of God's grace: "...he hath covered me with the robe of righteousness...." This "righteousness" doesn't mention a righteousness attained by man keeping the Law, but one originating from God that is made available through His grace.

Later, Isaiah revealed the extent of our own righteousness when he wrote: "But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away" (Isaiah 64:6). This belongs to the foundation of our faith: Salvation unto righteousness through the substitutionary sacrifice of Jesus, the Son of God, on Calvary's Cross.

Isaiah was definitely addressing a group of people other than the Jews who were under the Law. The Old Covenant was only of temporary value, meaning it was earth-bound. God told Israel to keep the Law and then they would receive earthly blessings. We all know the outcome; Israel failed to keep the Law, and as a result, the Temple on Mount Moriah, the center of God's earthly revelation, was destroyed and the Jews were dispersed over the entire face of the earth.

We must take special notice of the last part of verse 8: "...I will make an everlasting covenant with them" (Isaiah 61). This covenant was not established by the shedding of the blood of goats and bulls, for the Bible says "...it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats should take away sins" (Hebrews 10:4). The extent of the value of the sacrificial system only served as a temporary covering of sins, but had no eternal value.

Salvation and righteousness could only be established when the price for sin was paid; that payment was death. In other words, that meant the death of a sinner. That is considered righteous judgment. Therefore, it was necessary for a sinless person to die for the sins of sinners. It was Jesus Christ, God in the flesh, who accomplished the impossible by sacrificing Himself for sinners. Hebrews 9:12 reads: "Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us."

These scriptural examples should be sufficient in determining that Isaiah was referring to the people who lived under the New Covenant, the covenant on which the foundation of the Church of Jesus Christ was established.

This covenant revealed the believers' new position. The two offices which previously stood in opposition now had to be united. Therefore, the Bible says that He has made us kings and priests, which is certainly unusual because the offices of king and priest were strictly separated. A king was forbidden to practice the office of priest.

In one instance, we see that Saul, Israel's first king, took it upon himself to execute the office as priest, but that resulted in his rejection. First Samuel 13:9 reads: "And Saul said, Bring hither a burnt offering to me, and peace offerings. And he offered the burnt offering." And in verse 13, we read of his rejection: "And Samuel said to Saul, Thou hast done foolishly: thou hast not kept the commandment of the LORD thy God, which he commanded thee: for now would the LORD have established thy kingdom upon Israel for ever."

But under the New Covenant, we see how Jesus ordained us to act as kings and priests.

What Is The Church?

How would you answer someone who asked where to locate the Church of Jesus Christ? If you were asked where the government was located, you'd reply "Washington, D.C." without hesitation. In fact, you could probably also supply names, phone numbers and e-mail addresses of all governmental executives there. So why can't we pinpoint an exact identity and location for the Church? The answer to that question is found in Ephesians 5:32: "This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church." There is no mystery about Washington, D.C. being the governmental headquarters of the United States, but location becomes a mystery when we consider the Church. Why? Because the Church of Jesus Christ is the Body of Christ; it is not an organization, but an organism. The Bible teaches that the Body of Christ functions independently of any government; but as an organism, it functions interdependently. This fact is evident from Romans 12:5: "So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another."

The function of any government, organization or business is based on certain rules and regulations that are usually overseen by a committee. That body is responsible for any decisions that have to be made. If anything needs to be changed, or an urgent project must be undertaken, the committee is called to a meeting and expected to produce a decision relating to the issue at hand.

On the other hand, the Church, as we already mentioned, is not an organization. We know from our own bodies that we don't need to hold a committee meeting to decide whether or not we should move a limb or blink an eye, because these are natural functions. Therefore, it stands to reason that the Church mustn't be compared with anything in this world other than the human body.

That doesn't mean that church organizations, buildings or institutions are useless. They are necessary, but they do not constitute the Church of Jesus Christ. For example, if no believers are found in the worship of a local church, then it cannot be considered the Church of Jesus Christ, but could be defined as a cultural center, a behavioral improvement club or a civil institution for world peace, the environment or some other seemingly vital issue of our day.

The true Church of Jesus Christ is set apart from all other organizations, movements and religions. Consider the similarity between the Jews and Christians. The Jews were dispersed over all the world, living in different countries under different cultures, speaking a multitude of languages, yet they remained Jews. The same is true for believers. We are a unique breed of people who have been set apart from the world. That doesn't mean that we act independently from the world or our government. We do not have a license to establish our own rules and regulations. Romans 13:1 makes this clear: "Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God." The system of government that exists has been ordained by God. For some of us, it may be difficult to grasp this simple fact that all governments, whether communist or socialist, democratic or dictatorship, are "ordained of God," the Bible says. For almost 2,000 years, the Church has lived under many different governments and systems. But in these endtimes, the world is gradually moving toward the ancient form of Roman democracy. It appears that in the not-too-distant-future, the entire world will be ruled by some form of democracy.

But we are more than just members of a society. First Peter 2:9 describes the Church with these words: "But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light."

The Local Church

Did you know that even the local church doesn't necessarily represent the Church of Jesus Christ? If the Gospel is being proclaimed in those churches and people are being saved, then such a church may contain the Church of Jesus Christ, but it does not represent it. Romans 12:4 states: "For as we have many members in one body, and all members have not the same office." First Corinthians 12:14 says: "For the body is not one member, but many."

Unity On Earth?

We must answer this question in light of the aspired unity being propagated by certain Christian organizations. Since the Ecumenical Movement was founded in Amsterdam in 1948, "unity" has become a keyword. What is the intention of this organization? The goal is for Protestant churches to be united into one body and placed under the control of the Vatican, led by the pope.

Many other movements and organizations, throughout the decades, particularly within the last few years, have tried desperately to unite evangelical churches organizationally.

One such ministry caters to men and is based on certain promises that each member must make. One of these promises says the member "...is committed to reach beyond any racial and denominational barriers to demonstrate the power of biblical unity." This statement assumes that organizational, racial and denominational barriers hinder biblical unity. Of course, such is far from the truth. Why? Because unifying power can never come from any person, movement or organization. Genuine biblical unity has already been accomplished by one Man, the Man Jesus Christ, who prayed these words to the Father, recorded for us in John 17:22-23: "And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me." Therefore, it stands to reason that all unity-seeking movements and organizations will ultimately fail and are in danger of becoming servants of the great deceiver, who will bring about a global church. Members of this global church will represent not only Christianity, but all other religions as well.

The Church: Past, Present, Future

Consider these three important questions that must be answered regarding the Church:

How long will the Church remain on earth?

How can we know for certain that we are in the endtimes?

What will happen when the Church has been completed?

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[Dad Ernie]

Greetings Angels4u,

Good article. Here is my take on the questions:

How long will the Church remain on earth?

It will remain through all the "tribulation" which is to come, but will be removed immediately prior to the "wrath of God" at the Lord's 2nd advent.

How can we know for certain that we are in the endtimes?

Paul tells us in Thes. that there will be a great falling away first (from the true Gospel of Jesus Christ), and that a "man of sin" will arise and deceive many.

What will happen when the Church has been completed?

The "church" is perhaps better termed "the saints of God", or the "body of Christ" on this earth. Christ is and has been building a "following of believers in Him" which will consist of male and female, Greek, Sythian (gentiles) and Jew. When this "habitation of God" (Eph 2:22) is complete, the "war against the saints will begin which will be a time of very great tribulation. God will be manifestating His presence through the "body of Christ" or "the saints of God", as you prefer, and it will be "like" Elijah in power and strength and determination to follow after the Lamb whereever He goes. The "nations" then run by the Beast through the "false prophet" will seek after and ultimately destroy 99% of the "saints of God" living at that time, leaving only a very small remnant, i.e. those who are "alive and remain" till the 2nd Advent of our Lord.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

[Guest C.D. Light]

Hi DadErnie--Sorry to disagree with you, but the born again, true church, is nowhere on earth at the time that the period of Tribulation begins.

For numerous and tons of reasons, scripture says otherwise.

First of all there are new evangelists appointed in Rev 7 which consist of the 144,000 from the Tribes of Israel. They will evangelize during the Trib because we've been raptured.

Example: God throughout the bible, has never mixed things together. He first cut off the jews, and then opened up salvation to the gentiles. There was a distinction.

Example: God first put Noah in a place of safety, and THEN proceeded to destroy the world. There was a definite distinction.

Example:  First we accept Christ, THEN he saves us. There is a definite moment of distinction.

Example:  He first raptures those IN Christ from the grave, THEN he raptures us who are alive.  Notice, it is always one thing at a time, and always methodically perfect. There is a definite distinction.

Example: He will first remove His Church, THEN he lets the antichrist out of his "cage".

There are just so many incidents to show us Gods character, and tell us clearly how he operates. To say that he will leave the saved with the unsaved together on the earth, both being dealt tribulation together alike, is totally out of Gods character.

Most of all, the total 7 yrs will be God Wrath. The first Seal is opened and it releases the Antichrist to come to power on earth.  He will be the world dictator.

This first Seal is the beginning of Gods Wrathful Tribulation. Anyone who believes that being under the Antichrist's dictatorship will not be wrath, is just not thinking it out.

(Just imagine yourself being under the rulership of Saddam right now as world dictator. And tell me it wouldnt be wrathful. During the "first half" of this period, 1/2 of the population dies, is killed, by various means.)

I think people must be cosidering anything short of the World War of the second half, isnt wrath, but they are very much mistaken.

Look at the world trade center last year, and then multiply it by millions.  Thats what the first half will be, and believe it, it will be wrathful.

Remember too, that beginning with ALL the seals, they are spoken of as Gods Wrath upon the whole world. They are called the Seals of Judgement, and Judgement has no place on the Saved for we are Redeemed.

For the born again, "there is now No More Condemnation". So if that is Gods opinion, then what would we be doing here under this Condemnation?  It would not line up with scripture in the least.

IMO this mid trib and prewrath stuff is nothing more than showing that satan has snuck into the churches with this junk, just to cause arguments between christians. Dont fall for that.

The entire Trib period is Gods Judgement upon the whole world, and NONE can escape it. Thats scripture. I take the word NONE to mean NONE. So if the Church were still here, then Tribulation would be for us too. And that is opposed to scripture.

Lastly, there is not one bit of instruction given to the Church as to what to do, nor to prepare for this period of suffering which will be like nothing we have ever seen before, and will be beyond our imagination, regarding the horror of it.

cd

[Dad Ernie]

Greetings CD,

You might want to consider the following verses in context:

Matthew 24:21-22 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

Revelation 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

Revelation 7:13-14 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? 14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Nowhere in the NT does it say the great tribulation will be longer than 3 1/2 years. Pre-tribs will add one of the 3 1/2 year periods to say a 1260 day period, thinking that covers the 7 year period, but upon closer examination and fuller understanding, all the periods of 3 1/2 years can be shown to convene and end at the same time period.

Notice above WHO goes through this "great tribulation": "a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues" These are NOT just Jews, ALSO Christ is NOT going to come and take half of his saints one time and then come again and take the other half. He is coming only once more and the resurrection of the dead shall occur first, then (shortly afterward IMHO) will those "who are alive and remain" be caught up together to be with them and will be forever with the Lord.

Please examine the threads elsewhere on this board for a fuller understanding of the post-trib, pre-wrath position. It is the only VALID interpretation of NT scripture.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

[angels4u]

Hi Ernie,

I believe as a born again Christian we will not go through the Tribulation and I know there have been alot of discussion about it here, that's why I'm not going to bother to even trying to convince you about it, there is enough said about the topic.

You have no ground to stand on to convince me that Gods children will go trough the tribulation.

Everything mentioned in Matt.24 is not for the Church but is written for Israel.

And after Rev 4 The end of the church age has come and the Holy Spirit will be taken out of this world, thats why there is going to chaos...I have studied this and have come to the conclusion that born again Christians will not go through the Tribulation, why might face persecution before this all happen but that's a different story.

Gpd Bless,Angels

[Dad Ernie]

Greetings Angels4u,

You have no ground to stand on to convince me that Gods children will go trough the tribulation.

Well, as a matter of fact, I do:

John 16:33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

Are you saying that those indicated below are NOT God's children?

Revelation 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

Revelation 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

[Guest Tigershark]

Hi Ernie,

I believe as a born again Christian we will not go through the Tribulation and I know there have been alot of discussion about it here, that's why I'm not going to bother to even trying to convince you about it, there is enough said about the topic.

You have no ground to stand on to convince me that Gods children will go trough the tribulation.

Everything mentioned in Matt.24 is not for the Church but is written for Israel.

And after Rev 4 The end of the church age has come and the Holy Spirit will be taken out of this world, thats why there is going to chaos...I have studied this and have come to the conclusion that born again Christians will not go through the Tribulation, why might face persecution before this all happen but that's a different story.

Gpd Bless,Angels

Angles4u,

Food for thought. "A closed mind is it's own prison cell".

[Guest Tigershark]

Hi DadErnie--Sorry to disagree with you, but the born again, true church, is nowhere on earth at the time that the period of Tribulation begins.

For numerous and tons of reasons, scripture says otherwise.

First of all there are new evangelists appointed in Rev 7 which consist of the 144,000 from the Tribes of Israel. They will evangelize during the Trib because we've been raptured.

Example: God throughout the bible, has never mixed things together. He first cut off the jews, and then opened up salvation to the gentiles. There was a distinction.

Example: God first put Noah in a place of safety, and THEN proceeded to destroy the world. There was a definite distinction.

Example:

[angels4u]

Hi Ernie,

John 16:33  Lots of people already face persecution, and lots of people died without persecution, this verse does not talk about THE GREAT TRIBULATION.

Revelation 7:9 These people ar saved during the GREAT TRIBULATION.  vs 14 And I said onto Him 'Sir  you know So He said to me "These are the ones who come out the GREAT TRIBULATION and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. There will be people getting saved during the great tribulation but they will suffer persecution really bad!

Do you believe we are going through the GREAT TRIBULATION already?  We don't because the Antichrist is not revealed yet.

Love in Christ,Angels

[angels4u]

Hi Tigershark,

I am not close minded at all, you prove to me from the Bible Pre trib is not biblicial and I believe you.

And yes, I ment the nation Israel in Matt.24