CWJ Posted April 6, 2002 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 22 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 455 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 8 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/28/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted April 6, 2002 If, as some erroneously think, you were saved and then "took" yourself out of being saved, and died, then ended up in ####, then what were you ever "saved" from to begin with??If you can become unsaved after being saved by something YOU do or don't do......Then you are trusting in something YOU do or don't do(works)...not Jesus....to "keep" you from eternal d*amn ation.If salvation is the process here on earth that results in being saved, then how will we know for sure of our eternal condition, when we get to heaven?And if we have a "process" to go through (obedience, perseverance), then are we not looking to our "good works" for accomplishing being saved at the end of our time?Where in the formula of works being needed does Jesus come in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boblandis Posted April 6, 2002 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 252 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 1,859 Content Per Day: 0.22 Reputation: 27 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/04/2001 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/16/1963 Share Posted April 6, 2002 This is all true. God wants you to know that salvation is a gift from Him and Him alone. You can consider your love, obedience, and faithfulness as a gift to Him and NOT as a payment or a condition. Our filthy works could never repay what God has had to suffer to bring us back to grace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 7, 2002 Share Posted April 7, 2002 Matthew 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. Phillipians 2:12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 7, 2002 Share Posted April 7, 2002 AMEN, Amen! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWJ Posted April 7, 2002 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 22 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 455 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 8 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/28/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted April 7, 2002 You all are missing the point of being a NEW CREATION in Christ Jesus. The saved do good works as a result of having been saved by Jesus. One can do NOTHING good until that moment.Once saved you will bear this fruit: Matt13:8..."But other fell into good ground,and brought forth fruit, some an hundredfold, some sixtyfold, some thirtyfold."Pw....Jesus rebuked those who TRUSTED in their own good works....they "boasted" of themselves to Jesus.You are in deep error in your understanding of Phil2:12...this is stating a respect and humble fear of the Lord as you bear the fruit of salvation in your walk...as you can see in verse 13..."For it is God which worketh IN you both to will and to do of His good pleasure."We can know we have assurance of heaven NOW by this.... 1John5:13..."These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may KNOW that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of god."PW..you amoung others are very confused mixing "works" in the formula as to how you are saved. This is putting the cart before the horse. Horse=getting saved Cart=good works as a result of being re-bornPW...concerning your answer to #3 Acts4:12.."Neither is there salvation in any other:  for there is none other name under heaven given amoung men, whereby we must be saved." Salvation IS in Jesus. His "work" on the cross finished all works needed. Salvation is NOT a choice we make, it IS Jesus.PW...your answer to #4....look at this verse: Eph2:9..."NOT OF WORKS, LEST ANY MAN SHOULD BOAST."PW what you have stated as your belief on works in salvation are by scriptures actually the fruit of the Holy Spirit working in us after being saved.  This fruit is the result of God's power in us, AFTER we have been saved."If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled".....This IS a FRUIT of having been once saved, re-born, re-created in Jesus.The verses from Galatians quoted by Blindseeker....this verse gives the explanation of what happened there...Luke8:12..."Those by the wayside are they that hear;  then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they SHOULD BELIEVE AND BE SAVED."You can be sooooo close, but yet soooooo far from salvation. The Word MUST take root. You must be rooted and grounded in love, and God is love, therefore without His power you can't be saved. 1Cor1:18..."For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which ARE SAVED it is  the power of God."These truths are spiritually discerned, this means you must be indwelt by the Holy Spirt to understand.But there are those who fall into this syndrome of not getting rooted and grounded properly........2Tim3:7.."Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth."Peace to all, Carl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWJ Posted April 7, 2002 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 22 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 455 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 8 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/28/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted April 7, 2002 Rev2:2-5....is this not a chastisement? Â It's not a loss of salvation.Rev3:1-5....a false church, with some that are saved in it. Looking at verse 5..."He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; Â and I WILL NOT BLOT OUT HIS NAME OUT OF THE BOOK OF LIFE, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before His angels." Many misunderstand this to mean we CAN be blotted out...but just the opposite is the truth..... 1John5:4..."For WHATSOEVER is born of God OVERCOMETH the world; and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith...(5)..Who is he that OVERCOMETH the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?"Again the Word of God shows us that by being re-born of the Holy Spirit, we WILL NOT BE BLOTTED OUT....NOW THAT'S ETERNAL SECURITY!Just some security issues the Word of God addresses, not I.Peace to all, Carl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 7, 2002 Share Posted April 7, 2002 Quote: from CWJ on 10:19 am on April 7, 2002 Acts4:12.."Neither is there salvation in any other: Â for there is none other name under heaven given amoung men, whereby we must be saved." Salvation IS in Jesus. His "work" on the cross finished all works needed. Salvation is NOT a choice we make, it IS Jesus.Joshua 24:14 Now therefore fear the LORD, and serve him in sincerity and in truth: and put away the gods which your fathers served on the other side of the flood, and in Egypt; and serve ye the LORD. 15 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 7, 2002 Share Posted April 7, 2002 Quote: from CWJ on 10:42 am on April 7, 2002 Rev2:2-5....is this not a chastisement? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWJ Posted April 8, 2002 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 22 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 455 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 8 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/28/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted April 8, 2002 PW...I am only sure because the scriptures tell me I can be....that I can know: 1John5:13..."These things have I written unto you that you believe on the name of the Son of God; THAT YE MAY KNOW THAT YE HAVE ETERNAL LIFE, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God."For the bible tells me so, yes Jesus loves me......What part of "THAT YE MAY KNOW THAT YE HAVE ETERNAL LIFE," is so hard to understand? (also notice the present tense, you HAVE salvation NOW)Rev22:19..."And if any man shall take away from the Words of the book of this prophecy, God SHALL TAKE AWAY HIS PART OUT OF THE BOOK OF LIFE, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book."Looks like at first glance you can be thrown out, uh? Well if you all you do is glance that's the impression you'll have. But with study and prayer, and the guiding of the Holy Spirit, understanding is accomplished here.We all know we have free choice, and we know that God writes our names in the book of life when saved. So, before we choose to receive the gift of eternal life there is a place, space, or "part" in the book of life where our name can go. So in the case in this passage, the one who does such an abomination has obviously blasphemed the Holy Spirit, forever lost from the chance to choose eternal life. Committing the unforgivable sin! Â NEVER HAVING BEEN RE-BORN. Thereby loosing his "part" in the book of life.1John3:19..."And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before Him...(20)..For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things...(21)...Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we CONFIDENCE toward God."Peace to all, Carl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWJ Posted April 8, 2002 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 22 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 455 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 8 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/28/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted April 8, 2002 Blindseeker how about putting Acts4:12 in it's place alongside the pasted quote where I said Jesus IS salvation? A bit deceiving might it be? Â The way you made that look?(Edited by CWJ at 8:44 pm on April 7, 2002) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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